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grababackpackcanary

Quintilla , Pre-season and Corona

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Posted (edited)

**Climbs on soap box**

I have to say when the club announced pre-season friendlies in Germany I was bemused. UK travel is clear , do not travel unless it is totally necessary. I honestly don't think  it's an example to be setting to our fanbase either.  Can we honestly say playing german teams is paramount for our success ? The cases of corona are going up in Germany and the risk of the government placing Germany on the 14 day  quarantine list whilst we are out there seemed to be too high a risk. Surely there are teams in league 1 and premiership who would provide us with what we need without the risk. I even commented this on the clubs facebook post. But I sat back , breathed and assumed the club must know what they are doing .

Fast forward two days and if the Quintilla story is true then I have deep worries about how the club are dealing with the precautions for corona and their preparedness for our pre-season. Shoot me down , but surly this is all avoidable with a bit of planning and common sense? Something  which seems lacking in planning of pre-season and signing a Spanish player who evidently needed to quarantine but seems to have been negligently ignored.

I am also curious to know the situation with international players , eg Tim Krul what happens to him when he comes back from international duty ? Netherlands are on the list , will he be exempt  from quarantine ? A bit of clarification please NCFC

 

**Climbs down**

Edited by grababackpackcanary
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1 minute ago, Haus said:

Fair Haus . I saw your post in other topic , that explains the international friendly and german games.

But there are exemptions - eg Spain and that is always a possibility  moving forward of it being extended to other countries - the list changes on a daily basis.

I just don't see what the point //risk of going to Germany is ? We could of just done preseason here and made life easier and set a good example to our fans. 

Very curious to see what club say about Quintilla situation.

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21 minutes ago, grababackpackcanary said:

Fair Haus . I saw your post in other topic , that explains the international friendly and german games.

But there are exemptions - eg Spain and that is always a possibility  moving forward of it being extended to other countries - the list changes on a daily basis.

I just don't see what the point //risk of going to Germany is ? We could of just done preseason here and made life easier and set a good example to our fans. 

Very curious to see what club say about Quintilla situation.

I mainly agree with you.  

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I understand he is undergoing an extensive eye-test as part of the medical.  He will be driving to Barnard Castle on Sunday.  

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1 hour ago, grababackpackcanary said:

**Climbs on soap box**

I have to say when the club announced pre-season friendlies in Germany I was bemused. UK travel is clear , do not travel unless it is totally necessary. I honestly don't think  it's an example to be setting to our fanbase either.  Can we honestly say playing german teams is paramount for our success ? The cases of corona are going up in Germany and the risk of the government placing Germany on the 14 day  quarantine list whilst we are out there seemed to be too high a risk. Surely there are teams in league 1 and premiership who would provide us with what we need without the risk. I even commented this on the clubs facebook post. But I sat back , breathed and assumed the club must know what they are doing .

Fast forward two days and if the Quintilla story is true then I have deep worries about how the club are dealing with the precautions for corona and their preparedness for our pre-season. Shoot me down , but surly this is all avoidable with a bit of planning and common sense? Something  which seems lacking in planning of pre-season and signing a Spanish player who evidently needed to quarantine but seems to have been negligently ignored.

I am also curious to know the situation with international players , eg Tim Krul what happens to him when he comes back from international duty ? Netherlands are on the list , will he be exempt  from quarantine ? A bit of clarification please NCFC

 

**Climbs down**

I totally agree with you it is absolute bonkers and the way things are going there is a possibility of Germany joining the list in a few weeks time.  The travel   ban/requirement to quarantine i think only has diplomatic exemption, so it will be a can of worms with potentially players arranging to go all over the place and then being unavailable for at least 14 days upon their return eg Krul and others.   The requirement to quarantine is not advice it is law now with £1000 fine[ in theory anyway] The PL and football league need to wise up pretty quickly as if there are numerous transgressions it may put football  re opening back. If it is made clear to all clubs what the rule book is then if players do it off their own bat then there should be bans and if done with club approval fines/possible point deductions, that would quickly sort it out

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I would think the fact that everyone is tested all the time and in a ‘bubble ‘is key.  People simply holidaying aren’t doing that and a clear distinction can be made - but it does feel the rules are somewhat odd.  

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I’d guess there’s still plenty of people who still skip washing their hands after using the toilet and are still wearing the same face mask since lockdown commenced. You should follow guidelines but football clubs have been very hot on following procedures at training grounds. 

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We go away because it removes all distractions for the players outside of training, it forces them to live and work close together all day for a couple of weeks which helps with team building and integrating new signings. If they went to Cornwall or Scotland or something for example all their friends and partners and just a few hours drive away, it could pour down all week which would interfere with training and cause injuries if players slip etc there are many good reasons for a club to go away for a pre season training camp. 

Then there's the friendlies themselves, lower league clubs in this country would enjoy kicking us off the park as we'd be a massive scalp for them, see Cambridge a few years ago. teams in Germany generally aren't as dirty and will follow rules when playing a friendly, I think that's why we also booked one with MK Dons because Russell Martin can be trusted to instruct his team to treat it as a warm up game. That wouldn't be the case if we went on a camp somewhere in England or Scotland and played a bunch of lower league teams there, we'd come back with plenty of contact injuries. 

 

So it all makes sense to me and I have no issue with them traveling. Especially as their short term career depends on them staying healthy so not one of them are going to take any risks with the virus so our traveling definitely won't have any negative effect in germany or here when they come back. 

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6 hours ago, grababackpackcanary said:

**Climbs on soap box**

I have to say when the club announced pre-season friendlies in Germany I was bemused. UK travel is clear , do not travel unless it is totally necessary. I honestly don't think  it's an example to be setting to our fanbase either.  Can we honestly say playing german teams is paramount for our success ? The cases of corona are going up in Germany and the risk of the government placing Germany on the 14 day  quarantine list whilst we are out there seemed to be too high a risk. Surely there are teams in league 1 and premiership who would provide us with what we need without the risk. I even commented this on the clubs facebook post. But I sat back , breathed and assumed the club must know what they are doing .

Fast forward two days and if the Quintilla story is true then I have deep worries about how the club are dealing with the precautions for corona and their preparedness for our pre-season. Shoot me down , but surly this is all avoidable with a bit of planning and common sense? Something  which seems lacking in planning of pre-season and signing a Spanish player who evidently needed to quarantine but seems to have been negligently ignored.

I am also curious to know the situation with international players , eg Tim Krul what happens to him when he comes back from international duty ? Netherlands are on the list , will he be exempt  from quarantine ? A bit of clarification please NCFC

 

**Climbs down**

Unless I'm missing something it seems to me that football clubs have been operating to a totally different set of rules to the rest of society for the last two months.

IMO that has always been entirely wrong but its happened, so I can't really see why it would change now especially for the UK quarantine rules which are literally being made up as they go along without any relevance to the actual risks (or lack of) involved.

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Le's all give a moment of thanks for Harry Maguire, who's antics in Greece on holiday has dominated the sports news today and taken a lot of the spotlight off us and this possible lockdown breach.

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Ita a very difficult period for any government, its neither a clear cut lockdown or non-lockdown, everything is in flux day by day, week by week. Even at home, we have had and continue to have cities like Leicester or areas such as in Northern England with more supposed lockdown procedures than other places. I am positive that most football clubs, likely all, are doing their very best to respect and not flout all existing guidance and rules concerning the Covid 19  precautions, this obviously includes  City to, but it seems at times, understandably, that some rules, some guidances, can be  out of date or newly made before an individual or club can know  about them  or act upon them.

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3 hours ago, Essjayess said:

Ita a very difficult period for any government, its neither a clear cut lockdown or non-lockdown, everything is in flux day by day, week by week. Even at home, we have had and continue to have cities like Leicester or areas such as in Northern England with more supposed lockdown procedures than other places. I am positive that most football clubs, likely all, are doing their very best to respect and not flout all existing guidance and rules concerning the Covid 19  precautions, this obviously includes  City to, but it seems at times, understandably, that some rules, some guidances, can be  out of date or newly made before an individual or club can know  about them  or act upon them.

It's not about any government or just policy. I think its common sense. Why put your team at any kind of risk when you can stay at home and get the same results needed with practice matches? I would not be questioning the clubs judgement had it not been for this Quintilla balls up. If they can't factor in the rules and regs for corona for one transfer , tell me why I should have faith in clubs judgement for an enlarged squad going to Germany. Sorry the safest and most appropriate option in these COVID times is playing friendlies with league 1 and premiership opposition .

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Norwich furlough staff, press chaos.

Norwich have a unnamed player test positive, press chaos.

Norwich apparently breach lockdown rules, press chaos.

We're just the weird yellow team from way out in the sticks, people will always talk. Mr Marginal Gains Webber won't have let him in front of the press if we had any concerns about blowback.

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29 minutes ago, grababackpackcanary said:

It's not about any government or just policy. I think its common sense. Why put your team at any kind of risk when you can stay at home and get the same results needed with practice matches? I would not be questioning the clubs judgement had it not been for this Quintilla balls up. If they can't factor in the rules and regs for corona for one transfer , tell me why I should have faith in clubs judgement for an enlarged squad going to Germany. Sorry the safest and most appropriate option in these COVID times is playing friendlies with league 1 and premiership opposition .

What on earth leads to you to that conclusion?

If you had been following this pandemic, especially as it was affecting Europe, I'm pretty sure that you would have noticed that Germany is a much much safer place than the UK to be in as far as this virus is concerned.

So I think the club's judgement probably has the edge over yours.

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4 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

What on earth leads to you to that conclusion?

If you had been following this pandemic, especially as it was affecting Europe, I'm pretty sure that you would have noticed that Germany is a much much safer place than the UK to be in as far as this virus is concerned.

So I think the club's judgement probably has the edge over yours.

Well the fact that every  Government in the world has said DON'T TRAVEL unless it is totally necessary . My point has been playing these games in Germany isn't necessary as we can find similar opposition in the UK without putting our squad and our german neighbours at risk. Don't patronise me please .

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Fact is my friend, anyone in the club has as much chance  catching Covid 19 in the UK, playing friendlies or not, as doing likewise in Germany. Im sure our club , as i stated, as much as any other UK football club, know and are up to date, with the guidance  of the government and of the relevant football authorities as much as is possible.  So, your opinion is that the club going to Germany is not necessary, fine. You, as i, are just fans, we can have any opinion on any subject we like, but City will  do what they do...so yours and mine opinions  are  worthless , except in a football forum such as this.

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, grababackpackcanary said:

Well the fact that every  Government in the world has said DON'T TRAVEL unless it is totally necessary . My point has been playing these games in Germany isn't necessary as we can find similar opposition in the UK without putting our squad and our german neighbours at risk. Don't patronise me please .

Frankly it's difficult not to patronise you when come out with ridiculous statements like the one highlighted above, which is patently untrue.

Our own government has actually been urging people to travel - a few weeks ago Johnson was stupidly urging workers to return to their offices even though they were working quite successfully from home. They have also encouraged people to travel on holiday within the UK and to a large number of European countries including Germany.

The current Government advice with respect to Germany is:

From 4 July, Germany is exempt from the FCO advice against all non-essential international travel. This is based on the current assessment of COVID-19 risks.

Since, as I pointed out originally, those risks are far smaller in Germany than the UK it is your proposal not the club's that carries the greater risks.

Edited by Creative Midfielder

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FFS.  The club will hire a private charter plane, which has probably been stood unused for months,  thoroughly cleaned and with owners desperate to get it used.  Ditto coaches in Norfolk and Germany.  Travel will be direct from airport to hotel.  Again the hotel will be absolutely desperate to do business, it will be cleaner than an operating theatre.  Travel to whatever sports ground will be direct.  The grounds will be under same regulations as say Colney is, clean as a whistle. 

I truly am amazed that any of you think that the players will be exposed to Covid at all. Certainly much safer they are part of an organised trip, than left to their own devices here in UK, where the next spike in cases could occur anywhere. 

Webber et al will have cleared all this  with FA, EFL and German equivalent, probably also Foreign Office as well.  Do you honestly think the club are operating on such an amateur level?

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11 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Frankly it's difficult not to patronise you when come out with ridiculous statements like the one highlighted above, which is patently untrue.

Our own government has actually been urging people to travel - a few weeks ago Johnson was stupidly urging workers to return to their offices even though they were working quite successfully from home. They have also encouraged people to travel on holiday within the UK and to a large number of European countries including Germany.

The current Government advice with respect to Germany is:

From 4 July, Germany is exempt from the FCO advice against all non-essential international travel. This is based on the current assessment of COVID-19 risks.

Since, as I pointed out originally, those risks are far smaller in Germany than the UK it is your proposal not the club's that carries the greater risks.

I must have missed  that bit of travel advice in bold , do you have a quote from the government for me which backs this up your incredible statement up? 

The time the non essential travel list you mention made on 4th July -France , Croatia and number of other nations were on it - they are now recently added to our quarantine list . I don't have a crystal ball but just the risk of Germany back a few weeks ago (it was  (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/07/26/france-germany-could-join-spain-uks-quarantine-list/) and now more recently in last 24 hours (https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1325258/germany-quarantine-travel-news-uk-quarantine-list-coronavirus-FCO ) would to me seem a chance just not worth taking when there other opportunities to play games in the UK. Its not just the risk of getting coronavirus, its also the risk of being in a country overnight that the team could get stuck in - look at current situation in Spain and France ? Was that predictable a few weeks ago?

I respect your opinion but I guess i'm just less risk averse then some.

 

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2 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

FFS.  The club will hire a private charter plane, which has probably been stood unused for months,  thoroughly cleaned and with owners desperate to get it used.  Ditto coaches in Norfolk and Germany.  Travel will be direct from airport to hotel.  Again the hotel will be absolutely desperate to do business, it will be cleaner than an operating theatre.  Travel to whatever sports ground will be direct.  The grounds will be under same regulations as say Colney is, clean as a whistle. 

I truly am amazed that any of you think that the players will be exposed to Covid at all. Certainly much safer they are part of an organised trip, than left to their own devices here in UK, where the next spike in cases could occur anywhere. 

Webber et al will have cleared all this  with FA, EFL and German equivalent, probably also Foreign Office as well.  Do you honestly think the club are operating on such an amateur level?

I didn't until this came out - https://www.pinkun.com/norwich-city/norwich-city-broke-quarantine-rules-claim-1-6802476 . Hence my post.

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1 hour ago, grababackpackcanary said:

Well the fact that every  Government in the world has said DON'T TRAVEL unless it is totally necessary . My point has been playing these games in Germany isn't necessary as we can find similar opposition in the UK without putting our squad and our german neighbours at risk. Don't patronise me please .

The German opposition will be weeks and weeks ahead of us, this is more of a fitness exercise against a good standard of opponent. We won’t play a championship team in a friendly, so we are looking for an equivalent and it seems a good idea that these opponents are chosen.

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2 minutes ago, grababackpackcanary said:

Read the article.  It is a report of an article "claiming" City broke the rules, there is no evidence to say they did not get advice and clear Quintilla for the PR.  If they had contravened advice / laws I think we would have heard something by now, certainly the friendly today would not have gone ahead, it is a serious health issue after all even if most exposed to the lad are young and fit.  Huddersfield for instance very quickly called off a friendly today after positive tests.  I say again do you really think the club is run by amateurs.

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You can actually pay for an antibody test that if taken 48 hours after arrival will be accepted to cut the quarantine down to when you get the results (assuming they are negative of course). The wife was looking into it so our kids didn't have to miss the start of school, I persuaded her to go to Italy instead of Spain instead. .

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2 hours ago, grababackpackcanary said:

Well the fact that every  Government in the world has said DON'T TRAVEL unless it is totally necessary . My point has been playing these games in Germany isn't necessary as we can find similar opposition in the UK without putting our squad and our german neighbours at risk. Don't patronise me please .

That is simply not true. Check the uk rules and essential travel only applies to very few countries. The rest of Europe is even more relaxed and the government where I live (and most of Europe) to be fair have no such restrictions. BTW Germany is 20 miles from my door and I can drive over the border whenever I like and will not even be checked. 

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11 minutes ago, cornish sam said:

You can actually pay for an antibody test that if taken 48 hours after arrival will be accepted to cut the quarantine down to when you get the results (assuming they are negative of course). The wife was looking into it so our kids didn't have to miss the start of school, I persuaded her to go to Italy instead of Spain instead. .

Not according to Government guidance you can’t. 

 

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38 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Not according to Government guidance you can’t. 

 

Can't think of a better way of pasting this at the moment, but this was what they told the wife (yes, press release obfuscation going on to an extent, but clearly claiming that the quarantine could be cut to 5 days):

"

With the new government guidelines in place to quarantine for 14-days on arriving from Spain, a UK company has made the Covid-19 antigen saliva test available to the public. This saliva test gives accurate results within two working days and can cut down the quarantine period from 14 to five days. 

 

Please find more information below, but if you need anything else or would like to speak to CEO of FitnessGenes who has made this test available for the public please let me know. 

 

Many thanks,

Jemma

 

 

Covid-19 antigen saliva test available to public can shortcut 

quarantine period to five days 

 

 

Following the UK government’s decision to impose a 14-day quarantine on anyone arriving from Spain, a UK company has made available to the general public the first Covid-19 antigen saliva test, capable of delivering accurate results within two working days of purchase. 

 

The antigen saliva ‘spit’ test has been brought to market by FitnessGenes, a world leader in DNA analysis. 

 

Following the news that the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) have authorised testing of home-collected saliva, saliva antigen tests for Covid-19 are already in use by businesses and trials in public service[1] organisations are underway to diagnose outbreaks of the virus and safeguard employees. However, until now there has been no way for members of the public to buy a reliable, saliva-based test to use at home. 

 

The test detects whether or not someone has Covid-19 and may be infectious to others by looking for the presence of genetic material, called RNA, which is specific to the SARS-CoV-2 virus that causes the disease. It is effective regardless of whether or not you are displaying symptoms.  

 

The test is very simple and can be done by anyone, at home or at work. Saliva is put into a sample pot, which is returned to the FitnessGenes partner laboratory in the UK for rapid analysis. Results are delivered via text as quickly as within 12h of receipt at the lab. This means that potentially anyone arriving back from Spain can significantly shortcut the quarantine period. 

 

FitnessGenes CEO Samantha Decombel said: “The lack of warning that travellers from Spain would need to quarantine for a fortnight on return to the UK, has caused significant issues for thousands of people, who aren’t easily in a position to quarantine. By using an antigen saliva test, it can fast-track the quarantine process to under a week – a significant reduction for those needing to get back to work. 

 

“We’d advise taking the test after self-isolating for two days to ensure the viral load is strong enough for detection, with the results being sent back by day five, reducing the quarantine period by up to nine days.”  

 

Decombel continued: “With our seven years’ experience in direct-to-consumer DNA testing, we were able to respond very swiftly to the news that recent scientific studies[2] have confirmed not just the feasibility of saliva based testing but also that it may be a more effective method. We believe that making our kit widely available at an affordable price will help to reduce the risk of a Covid-19 community outbreak, and bring some peace of mind to travellers from Spain that there is a safe way to reduce the mandatory quarantine period.” "

 

Now I'm not saying that this is true or not, but just repeating the claims of company who are trying to sell this test

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1 hour ago, grababackpackcanary said:

I must have missed  that bit of travel advice in bold , do you have a quote from the government for me which backs this up your incredible statement up? 

The time the non essential travel list you mention made on 4th July -France , Croatia and number of other nations were on it - they are now recently added to our quarantine list . I don't have a crystal ball but just the risk of Germany back a few weeks ago (it was  (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/07/26/france-germany-could-join-spain-uks-quarantine-list/) and now more recently in last 24 hours (https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1325258/germany-quarantine-travel-news-uk-quarantine-list-coronavirus-FCO ) would to me seem a chance just not worth taking when there other opportunities to play games in the UK. Its not just the risk of getting coronavirus, its also the risk of being in a country overnight that the team could get stuck in - look at current situation in Spain and France ? Was that predictable a few weeks ago?

I respect your opinion but I guess i'm just less risk averse then some.

 

From 4 July, Germany is exempt from the FCO advice against all non-essential international travel. This is based on the current assessment of COVID-19 risks.

That is a direct quote from the government website 1 hour ago, i.e. whilst I was posting. So far as I'm aware there isn't a single government in the world that is advising against all but essential travel to Germany - maybe there are some somewhere but the UK isn't one of them.

So I don't really understand which bit of this you aren't getting - you definitely are not less risk averse than me - the complete reverse in fact because you are recommending a more risky course of action - playing football games in England as opposed to Germany where the risks are much lower. You seem to have a hang up over the travel, which particularly in the case of footballers is frankly irrelevant as @shefcanaryhas already pointed out. I don't think NCFC will be flying out to Germany by Ryannair, whether they travel in the UK or in Germany it will be in highly controlled and sanitised conditions.

One thing we may agree on (or maybe not) is that I don't believe we should be playing football matches at all in the current environment. In fact I'll go further and say that the fundamental precaution that we should all be observing is social distancing, and many of the other UK guidelines/rules are really window dressing, so I find it quite bizzarre that the only place (outside of hospitals) that social distancing has been completely abandoned is on football pitches. But it is happening anyway and the evidence is crystal clear that you are in much less danger of serious harm from Covid-19 in Germany than you are in the UK.

So you are advocating a higher risk approach than the club which has clearly had to look at all this in great detail prior to the restart of last season and presumably also now the preparation for starting the new season.

 

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