Squad?

[pete 318]

Sky Sports News reporting squad for next season to be limited to 25 8 of which must be English registered.  Unsure as to whether 8 English need to be in playing team or just in squad.  Nothing to report on Under 23 players whether they are exempt from the 25.  If in squad only we should easily make 8 English, however moves for Godfrey, Aarons, or Lewis might put that requirement under pressure.  Do youngsters count when included as additions to the 25 to meet English requirement? 

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

Those are the Premier League rules and it isn't 'English' but Homegrown, which is very different. 

EFL doesn't have squad rules, but has matchday team rules which can be found here

https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/section-5--fixtures/#:~:text=33.8 Home Grown Players.,(including Play Off Matches).&text=Home Grown – Carabao Cup%2C EFL,from the Home Grown quota.

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

Cribbing from the 'Contract Conundrums' thread, here are the players currently on our books who count as homegrown:

GOALKEEPERS
Tim Krul, Daniel Barden, Aston Oxborough inj 

DEFENDERS
Sam McCallum, Max Aarons, Ben Godfrey, Grant Hanley, Jamal Lewis, Akin Famewo, Bali Mumba, Jordan Thomas, Matthew Dennis, Sam Byram inj 

MIDFIELDERS
Todd Cantwell, Josh Martin, Daniel Adshead, Kieran Dowell, Oliver Skipp, Charlie Gilmour, Louis Thompson (on loan with MK Dons for 2020-21 season)

FORWARDS
Adam Idah, Carlton Morris (on loan with MK Dons for 2020-21 season)

There are 22 in total, but we can immediately discount Thompson and Morris who are out on loan for the season, so that's 20. Take out Oxborough and Barden as we're likely to go with McGovern on the bench it seems, and we're left with 18.

Ten of those players are defenders, and it's highly unlikely that more than five of them would appear in the same squad when you factor in that Zimmermann and Quintilla are likely to be regulars. Only Idah of our strikers is homegrown, so you'd expect him to be in the squad unless we sign another striker (who would probably have to be homegrown).

Obviously a lot depends on who stays of our four young homegrown talents, but I'd expect the following to be the most likely of those 18 to make the squad regularly: Krul, McCallum, Aarons, Byram, Godfrey, Hanley, Lewis, Cantwell, Martin, Dowell, Skipp, Idah.

Doing it in reverse, who are the 11 non-homegrown players likely to be?

Let's assume that Trybull, Leitner and Drmic are gone, as they've all been told they're surplus to requirements here. So that leaves: McGovern, Zimmermann, Klose, Quintilla, Rupp, Vrancic, Hernandez, Buendia, Stiepermann, McLean, Tettey, Placheta, Sinani, Sorensen, Pukki. (Soto is ineligible, and I'm assuming that Sitti will go out on loan.)

Have fun picking the first 18 of the season out of that lot! Assuming everyone's available except Byram and Oxborough (ie. nobody is sold between now and then), here's my go at it:

Krul
Aarons Godfrey Zimmermann Lewis
Tettey Skipp
Buendia Dowell Cantwell
Pukki

Subs: McGovern, Hanley, Quintilla, McLean, Vrancic, Hernandez, Idah.

That has no fewer than nine homegrown players in it, and among the players left out are McCallum, Klose, Placheta, Sorensen, Stiepermann, Sinani and Rupp.

That's an insanely strong group of players for this division, and if we lose two of the four youngsters plus Buendia we'll still be within the homegrown limit and have an excellent squad available to us. This really does look decent to me.

Edited August 20, 2020 by Feedthewolf

[Canary Wundaboy 1,358]

My only worry is if some of the newbies don't shape up how we think they should and we lose all the EPL youngsters from this point onwards. Assuming Farke guides them over the disappointment from last season it's a very strong squad with a lot of young players with lots to prove.

[Capt. Pants 4,195]

Only 2 changes from last season's failures. Good in some ways, but those players will have to have changed that losing mentality from just a few weeks ago.

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

3 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

Only 2 changes from last season's failures. Good in some ways, but those players will have to have changed that losing mentality from just a few weeks ago.

Or the other way of looking at it: nine players who smashed this league the season before last.

[ged in the onion bag 854]

5 hours ago, Feedthewolf said:

That's an insanely strong group of players for this division, and if we lose two of the four youngsters plus Buendia we'll still be within the homegrown limit and have an excellent squad available to us. This really does look decent to me.

Hope and expect our best players to stay as can’t see teams paying their worth.   If they did go, the fans will surely expect some further strengthening to ensure we give it the best shot.   Losing these players won’t be compensated for by the purchases to date. 

[Indy 3,283]

5 hours ago, Feedthewolf said:

Cribbing from the 'Contract Conundrums' thread, here are the players currently on our books who count as homegrown:

GOALKEEPERS
Tim Krul, Daniel Barden, Aston Oxborough inj 

DEFENDERS
Sam McCallum, Max Aarons, Ben Godfrey, Grant Hanley, Jamal Lewis, Akin Famewo, Bali Mumba, Jordan Thomas, Matthew Dennis, Sam Byram inj 

MIDFIELDERS
Todd Cantwell, Josh Martin, Daniel Adshead, Kieran Dowell, Oliver Skipp, Charlie Gilmour, Louis Thompson (on loan with MK Dons for 2020-21 season)

FORWARDS
Adam Idah, Carlton Morris (on loan with MK Dons for 2020-21 season)

There are 22 in total, but we can immediately discount Thompson and Morris who are out on loan for the season, so that's 20. Take out Oxborough and Barden as we're likely to go with McGovern on the bench it seems, and we're left with 18.

Ten of those players are defenders, and it's highly unlikely that more than five of them would appear in the same squad when you factor in that Zimmermann and Quintilla are likely to be regulars. Only Idah of our strikers is homegrown, so you'd expect him to be in the squad unless we sign another striker (who would probably have to be homegrown).

Obviously a lot depends on who stays of our four young homegrown talents, but I'd expect the following to be the most likely of those 18 to make the squad regularly: Krul, McCallum, Aarons, Byram, Godfrey, Hanley, Lewis, Cantwell, Martin, Dowell, Skipp, Idah.

Doing it in reverse, who are the 11 non-homegrown players likely to be?

Let's assume that Trybull, Leitner and Drmic are gone, as they've all been told they're surplus to requirements here. So that leaves: McGovern, Zimmermann, Klose, Quintilla, Rupp, Vrancic, Hernandez, Buendia, Stiepermann, McLean, Tettey, Placheta, Sinani, Sorensen, Pukki. (Soto is ineligible, and I'm assuming that Sitti will go out on loan.)

Have fun picking the first 18 of the season out of that lot! Assuming everyone's available except Byram and Oxborough (ie. nobody is sold between now and then), here's my go at it:

Krul
Aarons Godfrey Zimmermann Lewis
Tettey Skipp
Buendia Dowell Cantwell
Pukki

Subs: McGovern, Hanley, Quintilla, McLean, Vrancic, Hernandez, Idah.

That has no fewer than nine homegrown players in it, and among the players left out are McCallum, Klose, Placheta, Sorensen, Stiepermann, Sinani and Rupp.

That's an insanely strong group of players for this division, and if we lose two of the four youngsters plus Buendia we'll still be within the homegrown limit and have an excellent squad available to us. This really does look decent to me.

Pretty much as you say, FTW, my gut says Vrancic might be behind Sørensen, and I doubt both Buendia and Cantwell will be here, so Placheta will probably be in that starting 17.

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

51 minutes ago, Indy said:

Pretty much as you say, FTW, my gut says Vrancic might be behind Sørensen, and I doubt both Buendia and Cantwell will be here, so Placheta will probably be in that starting 17.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Vrancic leave, but this is as the squad stands at the moment (minus Trybull, Leitner and Drmic, who have been told they can leave). More likely that Buendia will leave than Cantwell I reckon, and I agree that Placheta would probably replace him. Rupp is also likely to be in the 18, as he can cover a number of positions (including RB) and I believe will prove himself as a versatile and valuable squad player now we're out of the perfect storm of post-lockdown PL capitulation. So many unknowns at the moment, though... it's actually quite exciting!

[All the Germans 1,075]

12 hours ago, Feedthewolf said:

I wouldn't be surprised to see Vrancic leave, but this is as the squad stands at the moment (minus Trybull, Leitner and Drmic, who have been told they can leave). More likely that Buendia will leave than Cantwell I reckon, and I agree that Placheta would probably replace him. Rupp is also likely to be in the 18, as he can cover a number of positions (including RB) and I believe will prove himself as a versatile and valuable squad player now we're out of the perfect storm of post-lockdown PL capitulation. So many unknowns at the moment, though... it's actually quite exciting!

Agreed with everything and my only difference to your team is that I do not think Tettey will play much, I can see it being Skipp and McLean.

Edited August 21, 2020 by All the Germans

[lincsy88 95]

McGovern is homegrown too and given he is the back up keeper by the looks of things that two homegrown spaces guaranteed every matchday with him and Krul. 

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

Just now, lincsy88 said:

McGovern is homegrown too and given he is the back up keeper by the looks of things that two homegrown spaces guaranteed every matchday with him and Krul. 

McGovern is not homegrown - that is why he was dropped from the bench a couple of times when Norwich were in the Championship in 2018/19.

[pete 318]

I know squad of 25 was the rule for PL but it was expressed that these are the rules applying to the whole of the EFL.  Which may be different from the last season in the Champs was 8 Homegrown qualified were to be included in matchday squad of 17.  Seems the rule has changed from matchday squad to 8 homegrown in entire squad.  I was seeking clarity on this new rule apparently noone aware of the application of the new rule, it may be in our homegrown depleted playing staff then perhaps not.  do under 23's need to be included in the 25, if not we may struggle to include 8 homegrown (23 may not be the cut off for young players). 

[king canary 7,577]

I' m struggling to fit together our midfield at this point.

Lets say Buendia leaves but Cantwell doesn't and that Trybull and Leitner are out for sure.

You're then fitting Cantwell, McLean, Rupp, Sorenson, Tettey, Dowell, Skipp, Hernandez, Placheta, Vrancic and Steipermann into 5 places.

I wonder, based on the type of players we've signed so far, that we might go back to how Farke lined us up in his first season without a proper 'number 10' type player, instead having a proper holding midfielder and 4 in front of him.

Big questions for me are...

Is Sorenson a holding player?

Is Dowell bought to play centrally or our wide?

How often would we start with out and out pace on the flanks (ie Onel and Placheta)? 

Is Tettey a bit part player this season?

Wtf do you do with Rupp?

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

12 minutes ago, pete said:

I know squad of 25 was the rule for PL but it was expressed that these are the rules applying to the whole of the EFL.  Which may be different from the last season in the Champs was 8 Homegrown qualified were to be included in matchday squad of 17.  Seems the rule has changed from matchday squad to 8 homegrown in entire squad.  I was seeking clarity on this new rule apparently noone aware of the application of the new rule, it may be in our homegrown depleted playing staff then perhaps not.  do under 23's need to be included in the 25, if not we may struggle to include 8 homegrown (23 may not be the cut off for young players). 

There has been speculation that a 25 man squad will be introduced for the Championship - but it certainly hasn't been yet. With the season starting in 3 weeks you would assume the EFL would delay it's introduction until next year. 

If it is a simple 25 man squad, with U21s not needing to be registered (as is the rumour) and a maximum of 17 non-homegrown players. It is probably of benefit to Norwich compared to the existing rules. Norwich met the same rules easily in the Prem last season so wouldn't have issue this season (especially having signed Dowell and Skipp who are homegrown).

[Canary Wundaboy 1,358]

We have an awful lot of players right now. Still light in defence and in goal.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

11 minutes ago, king canary said:

I' m struggling to fit together our midfield at this point.

Lets say Buendia leaves but Cantwell doesn't and that Trybull and Leitner are out for sure.

You're then fitting Cantwell, McLean, Rupp, Sorenson, Tettey, Dowell, Skipp, Hernandez, Placheta, Vrancic and Steipermann into 5 places.

I wonder, based on the type of players we've signed so far, that we might go back to how Farke lined us up in his first season without a proper 'number 10' type player, instead having a proper holding midfielder and 4 in front of him.

Big questions for me are...

Is Sorenson a holding player?

Is Dowell bought to play centrally or our wide?

How often would we start with out and out pace on the flanks (ie Onel and Placheta)? 

Is Tettey a bit part player this season?

Wtf do you do with Rupp?

I'm think it will be one holder with two in front, who are required to both create and break up play. 

Sorenson can play defensive or central midfield (he did both in Denmark certainly) I imagine he'll be used as cover for McLean who will be first choice on the left of a midfield 2/3, Sorenson is also left footed. I can see Rupp being used as depth for both right midfield or central midfield. Like every season for the last 2/3 years I guess the intention will be for Tettey to play more of a bit part role (but he'll probably become undroppable again).

I think it will be rare to see Placheta and Hernandez on the pitch at the same time. Dowell will probably play right attacker (should Emi) leave and drift in. 

Just looking at the fixture list highlights how many games in such a short space of time, so I'm hoping for sensible rotation and the need for a big squad. 

[Canary Wundaboy 1,358]

Going to make a controversial statement and say it might be good for Tettey to be left out of the squad this season, and just kept around to help educate and train the various DM replacements we now have.......

[hogesar 9,615]

10 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Going to make a controversial statement and say it might be good for Tettey to be left out of the squad this season, and just kept around to help educate and train the various DM replacements we now have.......

Depends if he proves himself to be better than those we've bought in. I also suspect his experience in midfield will be important with the new guys anyway, so expect to see him play a fair bit.

[Canary Wundaboy 1,358]

Just now, hogesar said:

Depends if he proves himself to be better than those we've bought in. I also suspect his experience in midfield will be important with the new guys anyway, so expect to see him play a fair bit.

But if that's the case, why have we brought others in that aren't better than an aging Tettey? If they've got the potential to be as good as him or better and are just raw, then they need to be playing to gain that experience. I know Tettey is a legend and it's not like I want to shove him out the door, but I almost think we need to think about him moving on as a plaster and just rip it off now, we were unwilling to do so last season with Amadou and it potentially cost us. We've massively over-reliant on him bailing us out and at some point we have to stop. We now have several players capable of playing in that position and it's time to move them in and give them time.

[hogesar 9,615]

3 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

But if that's the case, why have we brought others in that aren't better than an aging Tettey? If they've got the potential to be as good as him or better and are just raw, then they need to be playing to gain that experience. I know Tettey is a legend and it's not like I want to shove him out the door, but I almost think we need to think about him moving on as a plaster and just rip it off now, we were unwilling to do so last season with Amadou and it potentially cost us. We've massively over-reliant on him bailing us out and at some point we have to stop. We now have several players capable of playing in that position and it's time to move them in and give them time.

Yeah, but if we've got players who potentially could be his level but aren't, baring in mind the 'expectations' thread going at the moment, how well will people react if the season ends and Farke says:

"I know we could have got promoted if we played Tettey but we wanted to give the other guys experience even though Tettey regularly proved he was the better player in training and his cup appearances".

So I suspect, unless the new DM's adapt incredibly quickly, we'll see a lot of Tettey. I'd also want him on the pitch anyway, to help what is likely to be a young-ish midfield besides.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

We can only judge rather than identify who might start. That may well take a few games.

Just to join in and guessing that DF will still retain players in the last year positions

Krul

Aarons Godfrey Zimmermann Lewis

Skipp MacLean

Buendia Dowell Cantwell

Pukki

 

[yellowrider120 761]

8 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Yeah, but if we've got players who potentially could be his level but aren't, baring in mind the 'expectations' thread going at the moment, how well will people react if the season ends and Farke says:

"I know we could have got promoted if we played Tettey but we wanted to give the other guys experience even though Tettey regularly proved he was the better player in training and his cup appearances".

So I suspect, unless the new DM's adapt incredibly quickly, we'll see a lot of Tettey. I'd also want him on the pitch anyway, to help what is likely to be a young-ish midfield besides.

It is a conundrum 'for sure' but how do these new players 'adapt' unless given opportunities? Amadou is regularly chastised by many on here as a 'poor' signing (loan) but he was essentially a 'defensive midfielder' yet could someone remind me of the number of games he actually played in said position? I think he only started one, single, solitary game (league game that is) and was subbed during said match. I stand to be corrected of course. I have a feeling that (when fit) Tetty will play and this leaves Skipp and Sorenson kicking their heels on the bench and Mr. Mourinho becoming exasperated that 'the future club captain' is not getting game time ??  

[lincsy88 95]

17 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

McGovern is not homegrown - that is why he was dropped from the bench a couple of times when Norwich were in the Championship in 2018/19.

My mistake, theres a difference between british and homegrown, dang flabbit getting all mixed up with the rules again 

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

2 hours ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

But if that's the case, why have we brought others in that aren't better than an aging Tettey? If they've got the potential to be as good as him or better and are just raw, then they need to be playing to gain that experience. I know Tettey is a legend and it's not like I want to shove him out the door, but I almost think we need to think about him moving on as a plaster and just rip it off now, we were unwilling to do so last season with Amadou and it potentially cost us. We've massively over-reliant on him bailing us out and at some point we have to stop. We now have several players capable of playing in that position and it's time to move them in and give them time.

Because Tettey is an excellent defensive midfielder who just keeps improving with age? Play him while we have him. If he stops performing, he'll be moved out of the team quick enough. But based on current performances, he's our most consistent and reliable outfield player.

[Move Klose 303]

21 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

We can only judge rather than identify who might start. That may well take a few games.

Just to join in and guessing that DF will still retain players in the last year positions

Krul

Aarons Godfrey Zimmermann Lewis

Skipp MacLean

Buendia Dowell Cantwell

Pukki

 

Be amazed if we didnt start either Hernandez or Placheta at the start of the season, Farke realises that the lack of pace was a big problem last season.

[Mason 47 1,373]

Tettey improves with experience because a huge part of being a defensive mid is being able to read the game- same reason Gary O'Neil became a regular under AN. 

A new pair of shoes often take a while to break in, and sometimes the better option can be the comfy reliable pair the have lasted years. The first may look better, but if they cripple your feet to wear them...

[Move Klose 303]

Assuming Trybull, Leitner & Drmic have no future still leaves us with a 30 man squad, no big name outs just yet and rumours of Gibson & Hugill still wanted. Realistically a 25 man squad is what we will need. Assuming Siti will probably be loaned out and Mumba probably won't feature too much in the league. Best case scenario would be to see Lewis & probably Cantwell move on as we have the players in already to replace them.

Alot of central midfielders, is there a chance that a Tettey or a Vrancic could be moved on.

 

Krul McGovern
Aarons Byram Mumba Lewis Quintilla Mcallum Klose Godfrey Hanley Famewo Zimmermann
Skipp McLean Sorensen Tettey Sitti Vrancic Rupp
Buendia Cantwell Placheta Hernandez Martin Stiepermann Dowell
Pukki Idah Sinani

[Somerset exile 4]

Definitely need someone sold . There will be a lot of wages to pay otherwise plus some unhappy players who can't get a game .

We don't want to blow the parachute payments on wages for lots players who are not playing.

[pete 318]

See this from Daily Telegraph, if you want to read entire article need to take free trial and £3 month thereafter, can't be bothered.

25 players

 

Championship clubs will be limited to 25 players under new rules which will ease over-spending in the English Football League. It is the first time clubs outside the top tier have agreed to set the squad limit, which also includes a minimum eight players needing to be 'home grown'.3 days ago

 

Exclusive: EFL to cap squad sizes to help ease financial ...

www.telegraph.co.uk › football › 2020/08/19 ›