Xavier Quintilla

[hogesar 9,618]

42 minutes ago, Bill said:

I'm afraid that is rather silly

What stats led us to Godfrey, Aarons and Lewis ?

Or did they come via recommendation ?

What ;stats' would have led us to Buendia and OnelSimilarly Krul

And if these numbers have any value then how come so many transfers fail to live up to what those stats supposedly demonstrate ?

Look at Pukkis stats in the Championship and early part of last season. On these you would have expected 20 plus goals by May.

Pukki skies the ball into row Z from 10 yards out, or hits a screamer inches over the bar from 30 yards out. Both are given as a shot off target

End of.

I reckon Bethnal might have a bit more knowledge to comment on this one than you Bill - you constantly decide stats are meaningless but they're not meaningless to our recruitment or that of the top clubs in the world and in fact all invest significant money in this sort of data.

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

5 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I reckon Bethnal might have a bit more knowledge to comment on this one than you Bill - you constantly decide stats are meaningless but they're not meaningless to our recruitment or that of the top clubs in the world and in fact all invest significant money in this sort of data.

But Bill can't be wrong, so it must be all the top clubs in the world getting sucked in by this 'mumbo jumbo'.

Thanks, @Bethnal Yellow and Green, for your insight into the interplay between physical and data-based scouting. There is no 'exact science', but marrying both qualitative (physical, 'real world' scouting) and quantitative (data) research methods is clearly far more effective than relying exclusively upon one or the other.

 

[Tetteys Jig 830]

I'd have thought you start with a list of thousands of potential players, then use the data to whittle that down to a handful who you then go out and watch closer.

All that and then there's deadline day where occasionally you might take a bit of a gamble on a player that hasn't been robustly scouted. Even at that point, there is plenty of data instantly available to at least have some idea what you're getting. I'd be v surprised if the Ali Dia thing ever happened again!

[BigGrantsTash 70]

7 hours ago, Bill said:

I'm afraid that is rather silly

What stats led us to Godfrey, Aarons and Lewis ?

Or did they come via recommendation ?

What ;stats' would have led us to Buendia and OnelSimilarly Krul

And if these numbers have any value then how come so many transfers fail to live up to what those stats supposedly demonstrate ?

Look at Pukkis stats in the Championship and early part of last season. On these you would have expected 20 plus goals by May.

Pukki skies the ball into row Z from 10 yards out, or hits a screamer inches over the bar from 30 yards out. Both are given as a shot off target

End of.

You are seemingly completely unaware as to how we sign players. Every player we sign has had his stats poured over and if the stats aren’t right we won’t be interested. There has been some great articles about how we ‘scout’ players now a days. You should try reading them Bill. You might learn something...

Stats/analytics are the cornerstone for every top club in the world when it comes to signing players and we’re no different. I know it makes you angry when things aren’t always done like they were in ‘the good ole’ days’ but try and embrace change old boy. Embrace it.

 

[Yellow and Green 334]

12 hours ago, Justin time said:

I wonder if we are going to see fullbacks that hold back to allow Hernandez and Placheta  to play as traditional wingers.

I've wondered about this too. This season has exposed a few glaring weaknesses and it might be time to evolve the squad and the way that we play.

We seemed to be very prone to being counter attacked, with Aarons and Lewis almost playing as wingers. As you mention, the signings suggest we might shift to a slightly different system. 

[Capt. Pants 4,195]

12 hours ago, Justin time said:

I wonder if we are going to see fullbacks that hold back to allow Hernandez and Placheta  to play as traditional wingers.

I did wonder that JT. We know Onel likes to cut in, not sure about Placheta, but if he does we could get rather narrow despite having wingers on the pitch.

Not wanting to get OT so getting back to Quintilla, it says he can also play at CB. Remains to be seen on that one, but hopefully it means we can defend corners better!

 

[Bonzo 198]

14 hours ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

You trimmed off the bit of the quote where I said 'it could be Villareal's style'.

Although, having looked at Villareal's other left back, he dribbled and carried the ball up the pitch considerably more than Quintilla, so it seems it might be a player thing rather than a style thing. Again, as I said, I would need to see their games before being able to make such a call for certain. 

Players will follow tactics, but players will also do the things they are good at and try to avoid doing the things they aren't so good at. So if a player knows he's a good dribbler, he will try to do that more often and vice versa. It is possible to see players performing the same role in a team in very different ways - that isn't all based on tactical instructions, but players playing their natural game. 

As for your earlier post on data; it doesn't exist in a bubble. Clubs use data and physical scouting together as they are both parts of the player identification process. Data allows teams to whittle down the vast number of players across the world to see which ones stand out. Physical scouting is then used as a final test to see if the data was missing something. Some players are spotted first through physical scouting and data is used to help refine the process. How many times would you need to go and watch a player before you had a well rounded view of their ability? It is a very slow process and far from foolproof.

A large part of WyScout is that it will give you all the player's data, but it will also have video clips of the player performing the actions recorded in the data. 

Clubs having the same data doesn't all mean they come to the same conclusions with it. There is as much skill in being a data analyst as there is being a scout. In reality most now do both sides of the work. Data doesn't arrive with a nice list ranking all the players on how good they are - each club must work out what they feel is important for their style of play and what they should be looking out for in player. 

You say if data could predict Mahrez would become a top class player then Leicester wouldn't have been able to sign him for £500k, but the same then has to be said of actual scouts who also didn't peg him out to be a top class player in waiting. Mahrez wasn't playing in some obscure league where no one was watching. The reality is that his data did stand out to Leicester, who were early adopters of using a data driven approach, and they identified him as someone worth scouting. It is potentially a player they would have never gone to see if the data didn't flag him. This is exactly what happened with Buendia for Norwich - his data stood out and he was highlighted as a player that should be investigated further. Without data Norwich would probably never have signed him as it is unlikely they would have a scout regularly looking at second division games in Spain.

 

For anyone arguing the case that the stats are a poor way of deciding who to bring in- most would agree were this the only layer to the selection process.

The scouting and the analysis are two further layers. One suspects that there might also be some sort of statistical model in use which might tap into larger more generalised data sets that can also help in predicting future success.

For example there is a clear trend emerging that we like to select players who have been chosen to represent their countries at youth levels. I would guess that there are other data driven markers that our recruitment team use in selecting players besides having represented your country at youth level i.e. factors that are statistically significant markers of success either at a general level or indeed in some cases these criteria might even be specific to player's positions.

Whatever the exact nature of our selection model one can be certain that it is certainly multi layered and indeed that much of it is secret. 

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

On 18/08/2020 at 21:42, Bill said:

I'm afraid that is rather silly

What stats led us to Godfrey, Aarons and Lewis ?

Or did they come via recommendation ?

What ;stats' would have led us to Buendia and OnelSimilarly Krul

And if these numbers have any value then how come so many transfers fail to live up to what those stats supposedly demonstrate ?

Look at Pukkis stats in the Championship and early part of last season. On these you would have expected 20 plus goals by May.

Pukki skies the ball into row Z from 10 yards out, or hits a screamer inches over the bar from 30 yards out. Both are given as a shot off target

End of.

This.  This is why  you are roundly and soundly mocked, Bilious. Such an opinionated yet Ill informed point of view. If you think stats are assessed in such a child like black and white fashion, then you have much to learn , Grasshopper. Beyond ridicule. Stick to researching on the internet what the Binners are up to as you clearly have no clue whatsoever about actual footy.

[Capt. Pants 4,195]

I thought Buendia's stats, and in particular the types of passes he makes, were the reason he was so suited to us. At least that's what I recall Webber saying in a '5 Live' interview.

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

13 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

I thought Buendia's stats, and in particular the types of passes he makes, were the reason he was so suited to us. At least that's what I recall Webber saying in a '5 Live' interview.

True, he was doing well in a poor team, his stats drew our attention. Bilious  hasnt a clue Reality isn't  his thing. Quite common among delusional paranoids.

Edited August 20, 2020 by wcorkcanary

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

Whoops 

 

[TheGunnShow 5,932]

28 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Whoops 

 

That might end up a S-pain in the ****...

[Tetteys Jig 830]

oh god here we go, there'll be a massive overreaction to this, Talk****e will no doubt have a massive debate with their brexit listeners who will condemn us and that'll be our preseason plans screwed... just plain tiring now

[cambridgeshire canary 6,675]

6 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

That might end up a S-pain in the ****...

Incoming 20 point deduction then 😉

[cornish sam 944]

I thought elite sportspeople were exempt?

[AJ 1,218]

38 minutes ago, cornish sam said:

I thought elite sportspeople were exempt?

He probably flew by private charter as well so would have been minimal risk, plus no doubt am the players were tested prior to returning to training. Nothing story I would imagine.

[shefcanary 2,385]

The rumour of him joining lasted about a week before the signing was announced.  Just about the right length for "quarantine" before training started.   Think this is a half-arsed 2 + 2 = 5 bit of journalism.  

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

9 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

The rumour of him joining lasted about a week before the signing was announced.  Just about the right length for "quarantine" before training started.   Think this is a half-arsed 2 + 2 = 5 bit of journalism.  

He was sharing pictures of himself in Spain on Instagram a couple of days before being announced by Norwich and photographed at the training ground. There is no doubt he hasn't spend 14 days in quarantine, but the issue revolves around was he expected to and what does the guidance given to football clubs say about this. 

Players who have gone on holiday to Spain seem exempt from the 14 day rule, but new signings apparently are not. Will be interesting to hear Norwich's side to this and why they felt he didn't need to quarantine.

[Branston Pickle 3,634]

Meh, surely not that big a deal.  They are all in a ‘bubble’ and mega-tested. Though I guess the media will no doubt have a field day if it chooses to.

Edited August 20, 2020 by Branston Pickle

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

40 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

He was sharing pictures of himself in Spain on Instagram a couple of days before being announced by Norwich and photographed at the training ground. There is no doubt he hasn't spend 14 days in quarantine, but the issue revolves around was he expected to and what does the guidance given to football clubs say about this. 

Players who have gone on holiday to Spain seem exempt from the 14 day rule, but new signings apparently are not. Will be interesting to hear Norwich's side to this and why they felt he didn't need to quarantine.

What's the worst case scenario? We issue a very public mea culpa and get a small fine from the government? Surely they couldn't enforce that the entire squad has to quarantine because one person breached protocol, if all the tests come back negative?

[Icecream Snow 761]

3 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

What's the worst case scenario? We issue a very public mea culpa and get a small fine from the government? Surely they couldn't enforce that the entire squad has to quarantine because one person breached protocol, if all the tests come back negative?

It's fine "I was testing my eyesight" gets you out of these kind of situations 😝

[kirku 1,332]

Send him to Barnard Castle, stat

[Gordon Bennett 780]

Quality sh it stirring by the Athletic 🙄

[Dr Greenthumb 746]

9 hours ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

He was sharing pictures of himself in Spain on Instagram a couple of days before being announced by Norwich and photographed at the training ground. There is no doubt he hasn't spend 14 days in quarantine, but the issue revolves around was he expected to and what does the guidance given to football clubs say about this. 

Players who have gone on holiday to Spain seem exempt from the 14 day rule, but new signings apparently are not. Will be interesting to hear Norwich's side to this and why they felt he didn't need to quarantine.

Manchester United and Wolves played against Spanish opposition recently, I bet they weren’t quarantined for 14 days

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

22 minutes ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

Manchester United and Wolves played against Spanish opposition recently, I bet they weren’t quarantined for 14 days

In fairness, both of those games were in Germany.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Bethnal Yellow and Green

[Mr Angry 1,545]

Celtic had 2 games postponed and have been charged by the SPL because Boli Bolingoli went on holiday to Spain, didn’t quarantine on his return and then came on as a sub in their next game. Nicola Sturgeon has been very vociferous in her displeasure at footballers who think they don’t have to follow the same guidelines as everybody else, and there were fears that she would force a postponement of all football in Scotland after this and the incident in Aberdeen  when a number of players went to a bar and 2 later tested positive for COVID-19.

Boris is unlikely to have the same reaction as he don’t give a flying, but it isn’t the greatest decision the club has ever made to allow this to happen.

I’ve just seen that a Villarreal player tested positive a couple of days ago and the club has cancelled their pre-season training camp. I don’t know if Quintilla had reported back to training before he came to us but it does seem very odd to take any kind of risk.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Mr Angry
Added comment about Villarreal

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

35 minutes ago, Gordon Bennett said:

Quality sh it stirring by the Athletic 🙄

If Norwich have broken quarantine rules then it is a legitimate and pretty important story. Also due to the impact it has on the transfer window.

The season starts in 3 weeks and if new signings from countries listed do indeed need to spent two weeks in quarantine then it will mean players won’t be available for the start to the season.  

It also highlights the inconsistencies in the rules. Players can holiday in Spain and return with no issue. But new signings need to quarantine? Would love to know the rationale behind that or if that is indeed how the guidance to clubs should be interrupted. Norwich wouldn’t have knowing broken the rules and then paraded Quintilla so openly (especially publishing photographs of him socialising with an U11 team). 

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

16 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

If Norwich have broken quarantine rules then it is a legitimate and pretty important story. Also due to the impact it has on the transfer window.

The season starts in 3 weeks and if new signings from countries listed do indeed need to spent two weeks in quarantine then it will mean players won’t be available for the start to the season.  

It also highlights the inconsistencies in the rules. Players can holiday in Spain and return with no issue. But new signings need to quarantine? Would love to know the rationale behind that or if that is indeed how the guidance to clubs should be interrupted. Norwich wouldn’t have knowing broken the rules and then paraded Quintilla so openly (especially publishing photographs of him socialising with an U11 team). 

If you are looking for the rationale behind what the Uk govt policies are Bethno, you're in for a long and fruitless search. 'Off the cuff' and 'on the hoof '' are two expressions that spring to mind. Populist, random and uncoordinated are fairly apt too. If it suits them to make a big deal of this , they will. If not, then it'll be fudge, fudge , fudge. I expect them to be trying to gauge what reaction looks best, rather that what IS best for the Nation. 

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

30 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

If Norwich have broken quarantine rules then it is a legitimate and pretty important story. Also due to the impact it has on the transfer window.

The season starts in 3 weeks and if new signings from countries listed do indeed need to spent two weeks in quarantine then it will mean players won’t be available for the start to the season.  

It also highlights the inconsistencies in the rules. Players can holiday in Spain and return with no issue. But new signings need to quarantine? Would love to know the rationale behind that or if that is indeed how the guidance to clubs should be interrupted. Norwich wouldn’t have knowing broken the rules and then paraded Quintilla so openly (especially publishing photographs of him socialising with an U11 team). 

You'd think if the club had any kind of mitigation or loophole they would have had a press release ready to go. Seems like someone has made a monumental error of judgement here, and the club's probably already in negotiation with the government about what they can do to clean up the mess.

A good solution all round would be if we have to forfeit our place in the League Cup, but that's wishful thinking! Will today's friendly at MK Dons be going ahead, for example? I wouldn't have thought they'd be able to risk it, even behind closed doors.

[hogesar 9,618]

9 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

You'd think if the club had any kind of mitigation or loophole they would have had a press release ready to go. Seems like someone has made a monumental error of judgement here, and the club's probably already in negotiation with the government about what they can do to clean up the mess.

A good solution all round would be if we have to forfeit our place in the League Cup, but that's wishful thinking! Will today's friendly at MK Dons be going ahead, for example? I wouldn't have thought they'd be able to risk it, even behind closed doors.

If he's been tested, then I don't see why not. And I'm not sure it can be seen as a 'monumental error of judgement' when it's pretty clear that the rules are incredibly unclear!