Xavier Quintilla

[pete 319]

A defender at last can play CB could be the left side of a back 3, doesn't sound too adventurous.  Would have been better as a midfielder could have joined a busy party. 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,820]

2 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

Although perhaps not first choice, you'd expect someone who has played reasonably regularly for a team that finished 5th in the Spanish top flight to be a decent player wouldn;t you?

Having just looked at his appearances last season, it appears he was the regular left-back for the first part of the season when Moreno was injured. Most of his appearances were before the turn of the year, at which point Villarreal were 13th. In the second half of the season he lost his place, making two starts and two sub appearances, as Villarreal improved to finish 5th.

Despite this, he should still be a decent player for our level: on paper, at least.

[repman 635]

1 hour ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Perhaps we intend to tweak the way that we play, and go up with a style which is better suited to staying up in the Premier League without having a huge budget.

I do wonder though whether these data boffins / wyscout analysts etc. would have been able to tell us that Christophe Zimmermann was good enough for the Premier League when he was playing in the 4th tier of German football with a five figure price tag though, because I suspect not. 

If all this data could predict that Mahrez would become top class then Leicester wouldn't have got him for £500k. I'd like to think there is still an element of football people watching football games to find players that they like the look of, or has football really gone fully into algorithmic trading? The more I read on here the more I think it may be heading that way. 

I hate the idea of a player doing something in a game several times just to get x stat up or y stat up so that an AI robot recommends him to a data analyst.

It's clear the club uses data in some form in order to conduct our scouting, you only need to see the different countries we are signing players from for that. However, the data is merely used to flag these players up, as potentially high performing. This helps whittle down the scope from thousands to a smaller amount. From then you can scout the player and decide whether you think they are right for you. If there are players who maybe do something just to get a stat up, then it would be pretty apparent as soon as you've watched them. Also in terms of Leicester, I don't know about Mahrez, but they signed Kante reasonably cheap and look how he turned out, they also signed Mahrez in 2014, which if they did use to data to find him, would've been way ahead of many clubs out there, thus making it cheaper.

[AJ 1,218]

Happy with this, cover for lb and cb with Lewis potentially leaving and Byram out injured and as it’s a loan no long term risk if it doesn’t work out but a pre agreed price if it does. 
 

Good business again in my opinion

[Gordon Bennett 783]

1 hour ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Weren't it said that McCullum was available for loan though?

I think the article said they’d ‘fielded loan enquiries’. Which doesn’t really make it clear unfortunately. 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

15 minutes ago, repman said:

It's clear the club uses data in some form in order to conduct our scouting, you only need to see the different countries we are signing players from for that. However, the data is merely used to flag these players up, as potentially high performing. This helps whittle down the scope from thousands to a smaller amount. From then you can scout the player and decide whether you think they are right for you. If there are players who maybe do something just to get a stat up, then it would be pretty apparent as soon as you've watched them. Also in terms of Leicester, I don't know about Mahrez, but they signed Kante reasonably cheap and look how he turned out, they also signed Mahrez in 2014, which if they did use to data to find him, would've been way ahead of many clubs out there, thus making it cheaper.

My point really was that if every club uses data to identify targets then they'll all end up chasing the same few people and lots of players would fall under the radar. 

What if you had a striker who scored 5 goals and had loads of shots. Data would suggest he isn't very good, a human being might be able to see a player who has an excellent ability to get in behind a defence but who needs to work on his finishing. 

This will be a poor example because he scored lots at this level, but I saw a video of Jamie Vardy playing for Fleetwood just before Leicester gave them £1m for him. He looked so raw, his transformation is remarkable. 

There has to be a balance between remote box ticking and the old way of doing things. There is no way a computer told Fulham to sign Chris Smalling after his 11 games for Maidstone, a human being did. Much the same way that Farke would have told us to sign Zimmermann.

Now, on to my next point which is this post....

2 hours ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Some data ‘boffins’ have said he’s an average left back for defending and below average attacking at a Premier League standard. Very good at ball retention though, which is certainly something Norwich prioritise. What is strange is Quintilla seemingly dribbled or carried the ball up the field very little, when this is a large part of the way Norwich play.

Footballers don't just do what they want on a pitch (Nelson Oliviera aside), they follow tactical instructions from the coaching staff.

Why would you take into consideration the number of times he has carried the ball up the field, when he could have been instructed not to carry the ball up the field? Not doing it very often is not the same as not being capable of doing it. 

The video I saw of him suggests that he is an excellent long range passer so perhaps his attacking role in that side is to release the ball quickly out to the flanks. 

Stats could say that Pukki never scores with his head, and although that's unlikely to be a strength of his those stats wouldn't say that he's a forward in a side which doesn't get out wide to the byeline to cross into the six yard box, our wide players cut inside and we play mainly through the middle.

Edited August 18, 2020 by TeemuVanBasten

[Bonzo 198]

According to Who Scored Quintilla likes to cross.

Unlike Lewis, who likes to dash forwards, get us all excited and then stop. A cross from Lewis is a rare thing indeed. 

[pete 319]

And he doesn't look a midget which is unusual.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

Just now, pete said:

And he doesn't look a midget which is unusual.

Seen contradictory info on height, seen 5ft 9, 5ft 10 and 6ft. 

Don't think he is quite 6ft, although hopefully a bit better with his head than Lewis and can contribute a bit more to defending set pieces - a major weakness of ours. 

[repman 635]

1 minute ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

My point really was that if every club uses data to identify targets then they'll all end up chasing the same few people and lots of players would fall under the radar. 

What if you had a striker who scored 5 goals and had loads of chances. Data would suggest he isn't very good, a human being might be able to see a player who has an excellent ability to get in behind a defence but who needs to work on his finishing. 

This will be a poor example because he scored lots at this level, but I saw a video of Jamie Vardy playing for Fleetwood just before Leicester gave them £1m for him. He looked so raw, his transformation is remarkable. 

There has to be a balance between remote box ticking and the old way of doing things. There is no way a computer told Fulham to sign Chris Smalling after his 11 games for Maidstone, a human being did. 

If you had a young striker who had loads of chances but necessarily didn't score them then I think the data would flag them up as a potentially promising player, for most clubs outside of the top ones, it is about finding players with that potential to improve. With Smalling and Fulham, a human may have told them to sign him I don't know, but that doesn't mean that he would've shown up poorly on data. The very best players in the world show up well statistically, its unlikely there is a top player who doesn't do fall into that. In regards to the point about everyone will chase the same players, it will be no different to it is today, Norwich have a certain bracket they can spend in, other clubs have different budgets. Also there are still plenty of managers out there who aren't necessarily receptive to this way of scouting, so for the time being it certainly provides an edge.

[NorthCarolinaYellow 197]

9 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Footballers don't just do what they want on a pitch (Nelson Oliviera aside) ...

🤣

[Crabbycanary3 994]

I bet we never see him and Michael Buble in the same room.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,820]

8 minutes ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

I bet we never see him and Michael Buble in the same room.

I saw someone mention the likeness on Facebook, and I have to say that it's a great shout.

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

1 hour ago, Jim Smith said:

I actually think Lewis did better than most others last season and was definitely one of our better performers post the re-start (not a high bar) but he does have a few weaknesses, namely getting caught under the ball at the far post, lack of end product when at the other end (gets in so many good positions to cross it but doesn't find a player) and also when his confidence is low a tendency to turn back inside rather than use his pace.

That said he's a great athlete and has an awful lot of potential as I am sure his defensive play will only improve with experience. 

Have to agree Jimbo, Lewis needs cover behind him when he attacks, in order to do so with confidence, we were good enough at that in the Champs but the prem is a different tactical beast altogether and we were sussed. Good little player who should improve with better defensive cover, best of luck if he goes  , happy enough if he stays.

[Don’t be Krul 399]

How does he compare to another Spanish left back we had, Victor Segura? 😁

[Capt. Pants 4,232]

We shall see on this one. For me it will be a bit strange not having a typical left wingback who likes to get forward. Unlike some I'm not writing Jamal off; I hope he stays.

[Justin time 182]

23 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

We shall see on this one. For me it will be a bit strange not having a typical left wingback who likes to get forward. Unlike some I'm not writing Jamal off; I hope he stays.

I wonder if we are going to see fullbacks that hold back to allow Hernandez and Placheta  to play as traditional wingers.

[Rich T The Biscuit 562]

33 minutes ago, Don’t be Krul said:

How does he compare to another Spanish left back we had, Victor Segura? 😁

Hoping more of Garrido than Segura

[Tetteys Jig 830]

2 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Having just looked at his appearances last season, it appears he was the regular left-back for the first part of the season when Moreno was injured. Most of his appearances were before the turn of the year, at which point Villarreal were 13th. In the second half of the season he lost his place, making two starts and two sub appearances, as Villarreal improved to finish 5th.

Despite this, he should still be a decent player for our level: on paper, at least.

would say the pl equivalent with that scenario would be if we had signed John Jo Kenny from Everton last summer, who had a bunch of games when Coleman was out. Certainly a very capable player from his bundesliga loan evidence so on that logic, hopefully Quintilla does a good job for us

[Tetteys Jig 830]

1 minute ago, Rich T The Biscuit said:

Hoping more of Garrido than Segura

never got why we didn't play him more often

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

43 minutes ago, Don’t be Krul said:

How does he compare to another Spanish left back we had, Victor Segura? 😁

Think he was a centre back? 

Or at least pretending to be. 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

11 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

would say the pl equivalent with that scenario would be if we had signed John Jo Kenny from Everton last summer, who had a bunch of games when Coleman was out. Certainly a very capable player from his bundesliga loan evidence so on that logic, hopefully Quintilla does a good job for us

Lets quietly remind ourselves that Amadou played 32 times for Sevilla the season before we signed him, before we get too excited. 

Edited August 18, 2020 by TeemuVanBasten

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

17 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Lets quietly remind ourselves that Amadou played 32 times for Sevilla the season before we signed him, before we get too excited. 

Unfortunately it was more Ama-doudou instead of Am-a-dou-dou-dou, push pineapples, shake a tree...

[Tetteys Jig 830]

33 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Lets quietly remind ourselves that Amadou played 32 times for Sevilla the season before we signed him, before we get too excited. 

we are signing for the championship now though, Amadou would probably do well there but not for £50k a week.

Amadou wasn't all that bad for us either really, just constantly played out of position due to the defensive crisis.

[Mr Angry 1,555]

2 hours ago, Bonzo said:

According to Who Scored Quintilla likes to cross.

Unlike Lewis, who likes to dash forwards, get us all excited and then stop. A cross from Lewis is a rare thing indeed. 

Which is why I don’t think Liverpool were ever seriously going to sign him. Compare his assists stats in the last 2 seasons with Robertson’s and they are poles apart.

[Mr Angry 1,555]

1 hour ago, Don’t be Krul said:

How does he compare to another Spanish left back we had, Victor Segura? 😁

57 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Think he was a centre back? 

Or at least pretending to be. 

I took a friend with me to Barnet in the away league of the league cup in 1997-he reminds me occasionally of the abuse that Segura got that night from one fan who was at him almost the whole game.

I thought he played left back that night and I see that Polston, Newman and Sutch were the rest of the back 4 so I’d guess he was LB. None of his other games stick out so I don’t know if he played CB the rest of the time. 

I also see that he retired a year after he left us, aged 27.

[Indy_Bones 441]

10 minutes ago, Mr Angry said:

Which is why I don’t think Liverpool were ever seriously going to sign him. Compare his assists stats in the last 2 seasons with Robertson’s and they are poles apart.

So is virtually every other full back in the premier league apart from his opposing teammate TAA.

Robertson had 12 assists this season, TAA had 15, the next closest was Digne with 8, and the vast majority had less than 4 assists, so I'm not entirely sure what your point is there dude.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

3 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

My point really was that if every club uses data to identify targets then they'll all end up chasing the same few people and lots of players would fall under the radar. 

What if you had a striker who scored 5 goals and had loads of shots. Data would suggest he isn't very good, a human being might be able to see a player who has an excellent ability to get in behind a defence but who needs to work on his finishing. 

This will be a poor example because he scored lots at this level, but I saw a video of Jamie Vardy playing for Fleetwood just before Leicester gave them £1m for him. He looked so raw, his transformation is remarkable. 

There has to be a balance between remote box ticking and the old way of doing things. There is no way a computer told Fulham to sign Chris Smalling after his 11 games for Maidstone, a human being did. Much the same way that Farke would have told us to sign Zimmermann.

Now, on to my next point which is this post....

Footballers don't just do what they want on a pitch (Nelson Oliviera aside), they follow tactical instructions from the coaching staff.

Why would you take into consideration the number of times he has carried the ball up the field, when he could have been instructed not to carry the ball up the field? Not doing it very often is not the same as not being capable of doing it. 

The video I saw of him suggests that he is an excellent long range passer so perhaps his attacking role in that side is to release the ball quickly out to the flanks. 

Stats could say that Pukki never scores with his head, and although that's unlikely to be a strength of his those stats wouldn't say that he's a forward in a side which doesn't get out wide to the byeline to cross into the six yard box, our wide players cut inside and we play mainly through the middle.

You trimmed off the bit of the quote where I said 'it could be Villareal's style'.

Although, having looked at Villareal's other left back, he dribbled and carried the ball up the pitch considerably more than Quintilla, so it seems it might be a player thing rather than a style thing. Again, as I said, I would need to see their games before being able to make such a call for certain. 

Players will follow tactics, but players will also do the things they are good at and try to avoid doing the things they aren't so good at. So if a player knows he's a good dribbler, he will try to do that more often and vice versa. It is possible to see players performing the same role in a team in very different ways - that isn't all based on tactical instructions, but players playing their natural game. 

As for your earlier post on data; it doesn't exist in a bubble. Clubs use data and physical scouting together as they are both parts of the player identification process. Data allows teams to whittle down the vast number of players across the world to see which ones stand out. Physical scouting is then used as a final test to see if the data was missing something. Some players are spotted first through physical scouting and data is used to help refine the process. How many times would you need to go and watch a player before you had a well rounded view of their ability? It is a very slow process and far from foolproof.

A large part of WyScout is that it will give you all the player's data, but it will also have video clips of the player performing the actions recorded in the data. 

Clubs having the same data doesn't all mean they come to the same conclusions with it. There is as much skill in being a data analyst as there is being a scout. In reality most now do both sides of the work. Data doesn't arrive with a nice list ranking all the players on how good they are - each club must work out what they feel is important for their style of play and what they should be looking out for in player. 

You say if data could predict Mahrez would become a top class player then Leicester wouldn't have been able to sign him for £500k, but the same then has to be said of actual scouts who also didn't peg him out to be a top class player in waiting. Mahrez wasn't playing in some obscure league where no one was watching. The reality is that his data did stand out to Leicester, who were early adopters of using a data driven approach, and they identified him as someone worth scouting. It is potentially a player they would have never gone to see if the data didn't flag him. This is exactly what happened with Buendia for Norwich - his data stood out and he was highlighted as a player that should be investigated further. Without data Norwich would probably never have signed him as it is unlikely they would have a scout regularly looking at second division games in Spain.

 

[Bill 1,788]

the problem with the above mumbo jumbo is that it is .................. mumbo jumbo. Simply on the basis that there are so many variables that are not factored in.

Were this nonsense to used in polling it would be laughed off the planet

All it does is allow a few spivs to make money, just as those selling holy water do. it's value is in your own faith, no more

Scouting is not dome in isolation. Players are spotted and identified long before some numpty has been collating the number of yards he has run. I've played with defenders who  won ' everythng in the air', however with a head like a thrupenny bit they were just as liable to concede another corner as head it clear,

A left winger who would leave two defenders as he shot past them,  but would also shoot past the touchline once he got into his stride. A midfielder whose passing accuracy was up there with the best, on the basis that as soon as he received the ball he passed to the closest   player from his own side. If you counted the times they lost the ball it would be meaningless as he usually gave them 50/50 balls. His dad ran the team...we were about 16.

Saddo.com does not factor in one of the most important elements. Motivation, that's what sees players like Russel Martin achieving his peak, and Lafferty failing. All it can do is throw out a heap of meaningless numbers in the hope it pushes a club towards looking at a player.

[Bill 1,788]

1 hour ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Without data Norwich would probably never have signed him as it is unlikely they would have a scout regularly looking at second division games in Spain.

I'm afraid that is rather silly

What stats led us to Godfrey, Aarons and Lewis ?

Or did they come via recommendation ?

What ;stats' would have led us to Buendia and OnelSimilarly Krul

And if these numbers have any value then how come so many transfers fail to live up to what those stats supposedly demonstrate ?

Look at Pukkis stats in the Championship and early part of last season. On these you would have expected 20 plus goals by May.

Pukki skies the ball into row Z from 10 yards out, or hits a screamer inches over the bar from 30 yards out. Both are given as a shot off target

End of.