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Yellow Fever

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4 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Good point, I forgot about them 🙄

Quite a tidy number then, all things considered 😀

And many won't ever forget. In truth Trump is not the GOP and Johnson is not the Conservative. Both are parasitic imposters but I suspect Johnson will have done long term more damage as both parties will eventually try to distance themselves from their 'illness'.

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7 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Yep, they're certainly coming thick and fast and I suspect that that will continue - the idiot Johnson and the freak Cummings seem to think that they can dispense with human experience and expertise, and run the country with a few AI geeks and a highly centralised administration in Westminister.

In other words they've created a conveyor belt being fed at one end by stupid and ill-informed ideas from Cummings, developed into policies by his second rate geeks and then dropping off the other end of the conveyor belt as ill-considered, total c*ck ups, and they show no sign of changing that approach so plenty more to come.

Still, the good news is that with this latest fiasco the Tories have come up with an innovative approach to getting youngsters, who have traditionally been pretty disinterested in politics and certainly vote in much lower numbers than their elders, suddenly interested and energised politically 😀

The even better news is that nearly all these youngsters are going to vote against the Tories just as soon as they get the chance 😂

I think this is correct and if we may look a little bit into the future, we may have cause for optimism (difficult though it is just now in UK politics). 

I think there will be a gradual draw / movement to the centre and left, with the ideas of social justice being debated much more. In a strange way we need this group of 'political monsters' to give succour to new ideas.

I'm becoming more optimistic that we will be able to rely on the youth of today to design and create new political ideas, big ideas. 

Gramsci has stated "the crisis consists precisely in the fact that the old is dying and the new cannot be born; in this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms appear". You can think of all kinds of these symptoms (Brexit being a big one).

He means that new ideas are struggling to be born. Yet, they will.

I've never thought so much about our politics (or dug as deep)  as in the last few months / year. It's just intuition of course. But...just consider, could all this mad (populist Tory) politics be a precursor for all kinds of sh** to be cleared away?

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10 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Add to that their parents ! I would guess Tory focus groups (let alone the papers) had all the possible warning lights and electoral alarms ringing hence the emergency U turn.

It also won't sit well with grandparents who may well have helped financially to assist young Sophie/Oliver to progress towards university, to find their chances could have been derailed by another Tory fck up.

Unlike the free school meals balls up, or the test and trace failure, or even the OneWeb complete cck up this one hits right into the Tory heartland.

They voted in a complete lying, incompetent co ck as PM..............................and guess what they got

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8 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I think this is correct and if we may look a little bit into the future, we may have cause for optimism (difficult though it is just now in UK politics). 

I think there will be a gradual draw / movement to the centre and left, with the ideas of social justice being debated much more. In a strange way we need this group of 'political monsters' to give succour to new ideas.

I'm becoming more optimistic that we will be able to rely on the youth of today to design and create new political ideas, big ideas. 

Gramsci has stated "the crisis consists precisely in the fact that the old is dying and the new cannot be born; in this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms appear". You can think of all kinds of these symptoms (Brexit being a big one).

He means that new ideas are struggling to be born. Yet, they will.

I've never thought so much about our politics (or dug as deep)  as in the last few months / year. It's just intuition of course. But...just consider, could all this mad (populist Tory) politics be a precursor for all kinds of sh** to be cleared away?

The challenge when we see an extreme government Is to prevent a swing In an equal and opposite direction. It’s a relief that Starmer is now leader.

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4 minutes ago, sonyc said:

could all this mad (populist Tory) politics be a precursor for all kinds of sh** to be cleared away?

It is much the same change that WW1 and WW2 brought about.

Many had been exposed to another way of working and living in both wars and social justice came quicker to the fore

The world wide virus has found the 'old 'order' wanting. It's attempts to cling onto power are being broken on the wheel, of popular unrest. Brexit was an attempt at almost feudal isolation, much as those trying to cling to power in Belaruss, Trump and the cretin in Brazil are the final desperate bunker like denials.We are in someway entering another industrial age, in as much as huge advances in technology.

Society will need to come to terms with greater and more efficient production levels. Come to terms with those methods requiring less labour

An example of the divide is the way money is still being wasted on nonsense like HS2.

The past few months have shown how more efficient the movement of data to people is, over people to a place of work. We will soon come to recognise that high speed broad band is as much a necessity in every house as electricity and water are.

That means building more bridges not brexit type walls.

We need to ensure that younger folk with fresh ideas and their future to develop, are to the fore - not those who have 'had their time'

Society is forever changing and evolving, it is just that certain times  events come together to push change further than what had been seen

It comes down for some whether you want to assist and encourage the next generations, or you resent their youth.

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I think that is one of the 'meanings' (if that is the way to put it) of the pandemic ...and I agree events are being 'accelerated' or 'change is being pushed further' as you've stated.

It's difficult to try and understand the bigger picture when you're in the midst of something. Yet, somehow everything is being magnified at the moment. I guess that means it's also under greater scrutiny.

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5 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I think that is one of the 'meanings' (if that is the way to put it) of the pandemic ...and I agree events are being 'accelerated' or 'change is being pushed further' as you've stated.

It's difficult to try and understand the bigger picture when you're in the midst of something. Yet, somehow everything is being magnified at the moment. I guess that means it's also under greater scrutiny.

It certainly true that Brexit and Trump is a reaction against the modern integrated world and change, largely by the more elderly and those with smaller horizons.

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45 minutes ago, Van wink said:

The challenge when we see an extreme government Is to prevent a swing In an equal and opposite direction. It’s a relief that Starmer is now leader.

Boris and the conservatives, extreme government! 😀

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9 minutes ago, Jools said:

Boris and the conservatives, extreme government! 😀

Extremely incompetent. Extremely dishonest.

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14 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

It certainly true that Brexit and Trump is a reaction against the modern integrated world and change, largely by the more elderly and those with smaller horizons.

No reactions left YF. Reactive is a very apt word. It's not progressive that's for sure.

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What it does mean is that a large amount of the population have had their lives disrupted and have been forced to adapt to different way sof doing things. They will not necessarily be the instigators of change themselves but will be far more likely to embrace it, through a collective conscious/shared experience.

For all Churchill's theatrical posturing he was not seen as the great leader as now portrayed, and was certainly seen as part of what was wrong with Britain. 'We cannot go back to the old way of doing things' summed up the mood around the country up to the 1945 election

And that showed, when a country that was bankrupt could still set up and fund the NHS, When the shame of slum housing was finally addressed - and much work was put in place to ensure the next generation were properly fed and had the healthcare to develop properly.

It needed the past six months for voters to have their eyes opened, exposed to the corruption and dishonesty of those who regard the rest of us only fit for austerity. Cut what is needed for the health service and the schools.... even cut the police and fires service. But heaven forbid Eton, Harrow etc should have their charitable status removed

the indifference and contempt shown by the likes of Johnson and Rees-Mogg will only be part of the increased demand for change

Even the stupid can think..........................if only occasionally

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18 minutes ago, Jools said:

Boris and the conservatives, extreme government! 😀

Quite right Jools. Its not a government at all but a true shambles. A dark comedy.

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18 minutes ago, Jools said:

Boris and the conservatives, extreme government! 😀

By your standards, probably not

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17 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Quite right Jools. Its not a government at all but a true shambles. A dark comedy.

Aye, but the majority keep voting for them; even after ten years when they've failed to deliver on key policy issues and promises they made at three elections --- They'll also win in 2024...

Just goes to show how bad the opposition Parties are.

Mind you, if Boris & co balls up Brexit in any way, Sir Nigel of Farage and the Reform Party will be serious challengers 👍

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Some sick individuals think the Brexit govt having one of the worst Covid  death and economic records in the world is a laughing matter like it is something to be proud of.  The Brexiteers have no shame. The one good thing to come out of Covid is that hard right governments have been brutally exposed in events that will be remembered by the electorate for a long time. 

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38 minutes ago, Jools said:

Mind you, if Boris & co balls up Brexit in any way, Sir Nigel of Farage and the Reform Party will be serious challengers

Odds on for a disaster there, in part because it is a really stupid idea and there is no plan,

As for Farage, remind me how may times he has stood for Parliament and how many times he has been elected.

Happy to have his snout in the EU trough but now we are out just another hasbeen.

 

Edited by BigFish
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10 minutes ago, Jools said:

Slightly OT, but this is for Herminge and other Daily Mash fans --- I've just ordered one in white and one in grey:

https://www.moretvicar.com/products/the-guardian-mens-white-t-shirt

I would check out where it was made first. Don't want anything next to your skin made by jonny foreigner what what? Or even Primark.

Are they especially good for soaking up milkshake?

 

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7 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Odds on for a disater there, in part because it is a really stupid idea and there is no plan,

As for Farage, remind me how may times he has stood for Parliament and how many times he has been elected.

Happy to have his snout in the EU trough but now we are out just another hasbeen.

 

Shame about lockdown. Fakerage hasn't been able to spend all those £25 quids the gullible sent him.

Probably converted them into Euros seeing they have done so well.

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9 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Shame about lockdown. Fakerage hasn't been able to spend all those £25 quids the gullible sent him.

Probably converted them into pints

😏

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The Conservatives have become a parody Ukip.

Farage has become a racist Alan Partridge tribute act. The fact a few refugees are trying to get here has made him slightly relevant again. I wouldn't be surprised if he has invested in a French dinghy company.

Other than writing lies on a bus and a few three word slogans I see no signs of Cummings' supposed genius. He seems to have the reverse Midas touch.

Johnson is a coward. Where is he at the moment?

All in all, people were warned about these clowns.

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“If there is an unfairness, there is nothing that I will do to in order to address that unfairness.” Moments later, he was informing BBC Breakfast that Ofqual, the exams watchdog, “came to us about the concerns that they had as a result of totally unexpected result of how this was had impacted on some young people as well as external experts.”

Both of those remarks are transcribed exactly as they were spoken. As is the following. 

“We, working with Ofqual,” said Mr Williamson, “and this is what happened both in England as well as Labour and Lib Dem administrations in Wales and DUP and Sinn Fein administrations in Northern Ireland where we had confidence and the belief that the systems that we put in place and the robustness of the standardisation model that we were running that was going to be run in all those three countries would have the robustness that the Scottish system didn’t have.”

“The action that we consistently have taken working with Ofqual,” continued the man in charge of England’s entire education system, “is to highlight the fact and the need that the issues that were highlighted by the education select committee as well as by many other different organisations have actually you know the issue to ensure that children from disadvantaged backgrounds weren’t going to be disadvantaged as a result of…”

 

Any A level students out there want to translate that, alternatively suggest a single word ending in “ocks” that best describes the narrative.

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On 17/08/2020 at 21:46, Van wink said:

The challenge when we see an extreme government Is to prevent a swing In an equal and opposite direction. It’s a relief that Starmer is now leader.

I doubt we will get such a swing to the left. There was a dalliance with Corbyn (but all so unrealistic) with bold policies but without the strength of governance. Starmer's approach feels like 'softly, softly, catchy...' more measured. He doesn't really need to do too much as this present government continues to score terrible own goals (not even unlucky ones).

In the longer term perspective, I just wondered whether we needed this sh*tshow (the popularism) to bring people to their senses. I wish we didn't but it is what it is.

I asked on a thread before of those more to the right wing in politics whether they supported this government and if so, why. Not one response to the question! I wasn't interested in following it up at the time. Yet, I am keen to know whether the repeated failings of this current administration might discourage Tory supporters who start to turn away. In the right wing papers there are rumblings as with senior Tories.

I realise the polls are narrowing and that the country is middle of the road / right-centrist ....yet I just wonder if younger people will become far more politicised in the future and we start to see some new big ideas. I hope so.

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3 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I doubt we will get such a swing to the left. There was a dalliance with Corbyn (but all so unrealistic) with bold policies but without the strength of governance. Starmer's approach feels like 'softly, softly, catchy...' more measured. He doesn't really need to do too much as this present government continues to score terrible own goals (not even unlucky ones).

In the longer term perspective, I just wondered whether we needed this sh*tshow (the popularism) to bring people to their senses. I wish we didn't but it is what it is.

I asked on a thread before of those more to the right wing in politics whether they supported this government and if so, why. Not one response to the question! I wasn't interested in following it up at the time. Yet, I am keen to know whether the repeated failings of this current administration might discourage Tory supporters who start to turn away. In the right wing papers there are rumblings as with senior Tories.

I realise the polls are narrowing and that the country is middle of the road / right-centrist ....yet I just wonder if younger people will become far more politicised in the future and we start to see some new big ideas. I hope so.

Big ideas often come from the young but rarely get support from the mainstream. The biggest political influence is the economy.

Its odd looking back, having come from where I did, as it seems you did, I was a big supporter of the miners and Scargill. Yet when I look back I see what a ****shower Scargill really was. That doesn’t detract from my sympathy for the destroyed communities however

I loved listening to Foot, he truly inspired me, partly because of what he said, partly because of the way he said it and mainly because he came from the same place as me. Yet I despised Corbyn who was saying very much the same sort of stuff.

Bit of a political nomad 😁

 

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10 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Big ideas often come from the young but rarely get support from the mainstream. The biggest political influence is the economy.

Its odd looking back, having come from where I did, as it seems you did, I was a big supporter of the miners and Scargill. Yet when I look back I see what a ****shower Scargill really was. That doesn’t detract from my sympathy for the destroyed communities however

I loved listening to Foot, he truly inspired me, partly because of what he said, partly because of the way he said it and mainly because he came from the same place as me. Yet I despised Corbyn who was saying very much the same sort of stuff.

Bit of a political nomad 😁

 

The best speech I saw was by Foot in the early 80s. I felt he was genuine, warm-hearted and idealistic all in one. Always recall how the press pilloried him in his duffle coat. Like you, Corbyn never convinced me. Yet, one thing he could do was somehow connect with younger voters. Agree about Scargill too. Yet, someone had to act like he did.

I shudder at some of the political things I was involved with (all music related....it was mostly about the music even if it would now give me 'street cred' to say otherwise).

Agree it's all about the economy. Yet, the economy is about to be under huge pressure and though markets might respond more quickly and recover, unemployment tends to have a long tail.

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7 minutes ago, sonyc said:

The best speech I saw was by Foot in the early 80s. I felt he was genuine, warm-hearted and idealistic all in one. Always recall how the press pilloried him in his duffle coat. Like you, Corbyn never convinced me. Yet, one thing he could do was somehow connect with younger voters. Agree about Scargill too. Yet, someone had to act like he did.

I shudder at some of the political things I was involved with (all music related....it was mostly about the music even if it would now give me 'street cred' to say otherwise).

Agree it's all about the economy. Yet, the economy is about to be under huge pressure and though markets might respond more quickly and recover, unemployment tends to have a long tail.

My politics is very much centrist now and it doesn’t bother me if it is centre right or centre left to be honest. The biggest present issue is competence, I’m not sure if it exists on either side. Most politicians it seems to me probably come as political graduates from the same uni’s, what hope do we have.

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Is there an option for students who are not happy with their grades to take another year in school or 6th form? Or is there not room to accommodate them?

There is always the FOFO open learning option...I didn't do as well as I should have done at school, 3 O levels and 3 CSE's (I think), with not stellar grades. I  left the school system at 16, but in my early 20's I basically taught myself maths (one hour a month with a tutor to go through things I didn't understand...she often didn't either, it was usually the toughest questions which she said were unlikely to come up in the exam). I got a "B", I was only a point off an "A" grade

I realise this will put students  a year behind....is this  a bar to getting into  university?

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4 minutes ago, Van wink said:

My politics is very much centrist now and it doesn’t bother me if it is centre right or centre left to be honest. The biggest present issue is competence, I’m not sure if it exists on either side. Most politicians it seems to me probably come as political graduates from the same uni’s, what hope do we have.

I've possibly strengthened in my beliefs as I've aged (not the norm). I have worked happily and constructivey with left and right and am open minded with everyone. My other career demanded neutrality too

I guess that is 'liberalist'? I will never be a Tory voter though....i believe too that ultimately, capitalism is obscene. Yet, it's unpopular to say that. Perhaps I could grudgingly accept an ethical form of it, more responsible capitalism.

.... to get through life you always have to make decisions that involve hypocrisy. Then you have to try and forgive your own hypocrisy. Not easy!

 

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