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It will be interesting to see how his situation plays out. 

He was great in the Championship, scoring a load of important goals that helped us get promotion. 

However he has never been a regular starter. He is undoubtedly a classy player but there are question marks over his defensive capabilities.

With one year left on his contract and interest from Germany, I do wonder what the club will do. Give him a year extension? Sell now to get a fee or use him as a squad player and release him when is contract expires?

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It's not just the goals, some of which are belters. For me, he and Leitner who looks set to leave are the only players we have in the central midfield area who consistently look to play the ball forward. I get that Vrancic isn't very mobile, defending isn't his strong point  and he does concede possession. I don't mind that he gives the ball away more than a Tettey or a Tryball though because he's trying more attacking passes rather than just 5 yards sideways. 

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In our championship winning season we started the season with Leitner in the starting role and vrancic would often come on for him and it was then a slight change of pace in our forward attack.

Goals came in the later halves in games through vrancic because defenders had not adapted to the change in style.

At the end of that championship season he was fantastic. A star player, showed it from the leeds game. Should have got more playing time in the prem.

Each championship promotion season a player has a purple patch. The more players who have that ability the more likely you go up or stay up in the prem

Need to play more of those players this coming season than we did last season. So hopefully a stronger defensive platform and defensive midfield platform will allow that

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Posted (edited)

Never have rated Leitner but Vrancic is an absolute class act, but to play him you have to accept his shortcomings  and to get the best out of him you need some muscle in midfield to win the ball, give it to him and he will ping it all over the place and his free kicks are sublime i still recall the late leveler v the Owls

Edited by Yorkshire Canary

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2 hours ago, seanthecanary said:

It's not just the goals, some of which are belters. For me, he and Leitner who looks set to leave are the only players we have in the central midfield area who consistently look to play the ball forward. I get that Vrancic isn't very mobile, defending isn't his strong point  and he does concede possession. I don't mind that he gives the ball away more than a Tettey or a Tryball though because he's trying more attacking passes rather than just 5 yards sideways. 

I agree with everything you say about Vrancic. For me Leitner does not have the physical strength, his passes for the most part are shor and sideways and he hardly ever scores any goals and he clearly has an ego thinking he is fantastic. They cannot be played together Vrancic can open up sides, particularly if we have fast wingers, his dead ball work is about the best i have seen in a Norwich player over a long period of time

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He's never been more that a bit-part player for us but has come up with some key goals. 

He's 31 now so i don't really expect him to play a big part next season. 

Obviously a talented footballer but doesn't have the intensity to play at the top level or even consistently in the championship. 

Just my opinion. 

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I think he could be a bit of a wildcard for us next season if we use him well. Very useful off the bench or against some sides at home who might sit very deep and not press us. Personally I would keep him.

I did like leitner, for half a season in the championship he set out tempo and made us tick but it looks like it’s all gone sour so he needs to move on, similar with trybull, at times he was superb at others a little open.

I think, like many others, the shape and personnel of our midfield next year is intriguing and we may need some patience here depending on the number of players we turnover. In fact we might need to be patient overall as reversing this bad run of results and gaining momentum the other way will be key to our season. We clearly have talent but I think they will be fragile for a bit.

im a typical impatient fan of like to know who will be here and what extra players (if any) we bring in. If the squad remains similar to now we should expect as fans to compete for top 6 but I can see a rocky start. 

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He might be operating on the periphery again, especially IF we keep Cantwell and/or Buendia and probably won't get much of a look in at all if we play three CBs,

I can see him being a regular sub, but not regular starter. McLean is the preferred do it all type player Farke likes and probably rightly so. 

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Couldn't understand why he didn't get more game time last season, at least once he was fit again. Think he could have a big impact this season if played, just like last time around, but there's lots of competition in that midfield now

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If you think back to the championship season, it was when he was in the side that things happened, like the 3-1 away against Leeds - which other player would have scored that free kick in the first few minutes? I know there was a slight defelection on it, but it was the quality of it that was the kind of thing we just didn't have from set pieces last season.

It was so frustrating watching Emi and others look so average - and sometimes plain inept - from set pieces, when we had such class on the bench. I don't know how Vrancic must have felt watching that, but with his ability, we would definitely have scored more goals from set pieces. He proved that he has the temperament for big matches too, with his pressure goals like the Sheff Wed one in the last kick of the game.

Would love to know why he wasn't used more - yes we might have conceded more goals, but when our main problem was scoring them, you have to wonder why he wasn't played. Apart from his set pieces, you look at the Spurs match and that frankly beautiful pass to Pukki to run on to.......also the cup game away to Burnley where absolutely gave a master class of creative passing.

It's a mystery to me. I love DF to bits and accept there will have been reasons for his lack of time on the pitch (physicality, stats or whatever) but really, with set pieces being such a big part of the game in the PL, there is no doubt we lacked in that area.

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1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

If you think back to the championship season, it was when he was in the side that things happened, like the 3-1 away against Leeds - which other player would have scored that free kick in the first few minutes? I know there was a slight defelection on it, but it was the quality of it that was the kind of thing we just didn't have from set pieces last season.

It was so frustrating watching Emi and others look so average - and sometimes plain inept - from set pieces, when we had such class on the bench. I don't know how Vrancic must have felt watching that, but with his ability, we would definitely have scored more goals from set pieces. He proved that he has the temperament for big matches too, with his pressure goals like the Sheff Wed one in the last kick of the game.

Would love to know why he wasn't used more - yes we might have conceded more goals, but when our main problem was scoring them, you have to wonder why he wasn't played. Apart from his set pieces, you look at the Spurs match and that frankly beautiful pass to Pukki to run on to.......also the cup game away to Burnley where absolutely gave a master class of creative passing.

It's a mystery to me. I love DF to bits and accept there will have been reasons for his lack of time on the pitch (physicality, stats or whatever) but really, with set pieces being such a big part of the game in the PL, there is no doubt we lacked in that area.

Vrancic is one of my favourite players from the championship season but its crystal clear why he didn't get as much game time last season.

When he did get opportunities, he rarely took them. I remember him having a decent half against Sheffield United and a couple of others but there were far more where he had little or no impact on the game.

Secondly, Vrancic impact since we have had him, and his performances in general have correlated with games where we have won the midfield battle which in the championship, we were able to do with the likes of Trybull and McLean. They couldn't manage it at Premier League level though.

Because we werent able to control the midfield then Vrancics weaknesses become a massive problem. He's not very physical, he's very, very slow, he's easy to dribble past, and his positioning isn't great. These are all premier league problems though. Our midfield is good enough to protect those weaknesses in the championship and I'd expect to see a bit more from him. If he stays, of course.

 

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2 hours ago, hogesar said:

Vrancic is one of my favourite players from the championship season but its crystal clear why he didn't get as much game time last season.

When he did get opportunities, he rarely took them. I remember him having a decent half against Sheffield United and a couple of others but there were far more where he had little or no impact on the game.

 

Very much this. When he’s good, he’s great, but you have to make a huge sacrifice, too costly to risk in the PL, for those few moments of skill, because of his limitations. He was a bit of a Becchio during the season pause, with lots of calls for him to feature more. I think I’m right to say he got a lot more game time after the restart, but what did we get out of him? Not a whole lot TBH. 
 

Sadly, we can’t just wheel him on for free kicks and then take him off again.

On 15/08/2020 at 11:01, Chelm Canary said:

He's never been more that a bit-part player for us but has come up with some key goals. 

He's 31 now so i don't really expect him to play a big part next season. 

Obviously a talented footballer but doesn't have the intensity to play at the top level or even consistently in the championship. 

Just my opinion. 

Agreed. He was part of the first wave of Webber and Farke’s reign, if I can use that phrase at the moment. We picked up forgotten, ignored or 50/50 bargains from Europe and hoped some of the gambles would pay off. This time, we’ve got the core of a promotion winning squad, academy players who’ve had some time learning how we want to play, and more expensive players bought because they’re good, not because they’re cheap. We’ll never forget some of Mario’s best moments last season but I suspect he’s history.

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1 hour ago, Nuff Said said:

Very much this. When he’s good, he’s great, but you have to make a huge sacrifice, too costly to risk in the PL, for those few moments of skill, because of his limitations.

What did we have to lose?  Those few moments of skill can light up a season. The pass to set up Pukki for the goal that wasn't, was a sublime bit of football and imo he wasn't given enough opportunities. After that Spurs game he was in the team and did well for three or four games then got punished because we had a bad day at Man Utd and was off the radar then until the Burnley cup game where he was again superb, but it didn't get him into the team for Newcastle the next match, where we were crying out for some class touches. Came on in the 89th minute I believe. 

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25 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

What did we have to lose?  Those few moments of skill can light up a season.

Thought you were talking about Snoddy for a minute. 🤣

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23 minutes ago, lappinitup said:

Thought you were talking about Snoddy for a minute. 🤣

Naaaa..........not fit to wipe Vrancic's shoelaces - and he'd probably take too long to do that too...............

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On 16/08/2020 at 09:22, Capt. Pants said:

He might be operating on the periphery again, especially IF we keep Cantwell and/or Buendia and probably won't get much of a look in at all if we play three CBs,

I can see him being a regular sub, but not regular starter. McLean is the preferred do it all type player Farke likes and probably rightly so. 

"I can see him being a regular sub, but not regular starter. McLean is the preferred do it all type player Farke likes and probably rightly so".

We’re back in the Championship now so need to win games to get back up, not draw games to stay in the Prem. McLean applied himself well last season but we need attacking prowess from that position now. You can point to the Championship winning season where McLean played games at the tail end but can you seriously say that if McLean had played all 46 matches at CM that season, (rather Leitner and Vrancic) we would have been promoted ?  He hasn’t a dog’s chance of being more effective than those two – if you watched the matches you’ll know that !

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3 hours ago, Six Pack said:

You can point to the Championship winning season where McLean played games at the tail end but can you seriously say that if McLean had played all 46 matches at CM that season, (rather Leitner and Vrancic) we would have been promoted ?  He hasn’t a dog’s chance of being more effective than those two – if you watched the matches you’ll know that !

Championship 2018/19:

Vrancic, 14 starts, 2.07 PPG

Leitner, 19 starts, 2.05 PPG

McLean, 15 starts, 2.27 PPG

They're all different players who offer different things, but for some reason McLean gets all the stick but Vrancic is seen as the saviour.

I think Vrancic has benefitted from Lafferty syndrome, in the sense that the longer he spent out of the team while it was underperforming, the better he became. McLean obviously played a bigger part in last season's disaster, but I fail to see how Vrancic for McLean would've made a substantial difference on results.

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7 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Championship 2018/19:

Vrancic, 14 starts, 2.07 PPG

Leitner, 19 starts, 2.05 PPG

McLean, 15 starts, 2.27 PPG

They're all different players who offer different things, but for some reason McLean gets all the stick but Vrancic is seen as the saviour.

I think Vrancic has benefitted from Lafferty syndrome, in the sense that the longer he spent out of the team while it was underperforming, the better he became. McLean obviously played a bigger part in last season's disaster, but I fail to see how Vrancic for McLean would've made a substantial difference on results.

McLean is our best 'all round midfielder'. That he's not good enough for the Prem (although maybe with a good partner he could be, just) isn't really the point for this upcoming season.

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42 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Championship 2018/19:

Vrancic, 14 starts, 2.07 PPG

Leitner, 19 starts, 2.05 PPG

McLean, 15 starts, 2.27 PPG

They're all different players who offer different things, but for some reason McLean gets all the stick but Vrancic is seen as the saviour.

I think Vrancic has benefitted from Lafferty syndrome, in the sense that the longer he spent out of the team while it was underperforming, the better he became. McLean obviously played a bigger part in last season's disaster, but I fail to see how Vrancic for McLean would've made a substantial difference on results.

What I actually meant is how much the player in the position actually contributed to gaining the points, not what the others in the team did. From your stats 2.27ppg makes McLean looks a "world beater" but the brilliance of other team members got the points, while for example Vrancic when he was out there scored the goals; made the assists to get the points. Leitner with his passing ability help gain possession of the ball to control midfield. McLean - when others didn't shine our midfield looked dreadful and was scrapping for draws. Example: away against Wigan in that promotion season - No Buendia magic - McLean and Trybull showed me exactly how good they actually are, completely outplayed by a lowly Wigan side just above the drop zone.

I appreciated the dogged performances of McLean last season but please dont suggust he to better than Leitner or Vrancic in the CM role - to me he comes a distant second.

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8 minutes ago, Six Pack said:

What I actually meant is how much the player in the position actually contributed to gaining the points, not what the others in the team did. From your stats 2.27ppg makes McLean looks a "world beater" but the brilliance of other team members got the points, while for example Vrancic when he was out there scored the goals; made the assists to get the points. Leitner with his passing ability help gain possession of the ball to control midfield. McLean - when others didn't shine our midfield looked dreadful and was scrapping for draws. Example: away against Wigan in that promotion season - No Buendia magic - McLean and Trybull showed me exactly how good they actually are, completely outplayed by a lowly Wigan side just above the drop zone.

I appreciated the dogged performances of McLean last season but please dont suggust he to better than Leitner or Vrancic in the CM role - to me he comes a distant second.

Mclean got 3 goals and 6 assists in the championship season.

Vrancic got 10 goals and 7 assists

Leitner got 2 goals and 1 assist.

Take into account that leitner wins nothing in the air and doesnt tackle, Mclean won the ball back more than Vrancic and gave it away less whilst winning over double the amount of aerial challenges it's not actually difficult to argue that overall Mclean is a better option than both Leitner and Vrancic

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3 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Mclean got 3 goals and 6 assists in the championship season.

Vrancic got 10 goals and 7 assists

Leitner got 2 goals and 1 assist.

Take into account that leitner wins nothing in the air and doesnt tackle, Mclean won the ball back more than Vrancic and gave it away less whilst winning over double the amount of aerial challenges it's not actually difficult to argue that overall Mclean is a better option than both Leitner and Vrancic

Yeah, but McLean is rubbish because " if you watched the matches you’ll know that !"

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5 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Mclean got 3 goals and 6 assists in the championship season.

Vrancic got 10 goals and 7 assists

Leitner got 2 goals and 1 assist.

Take into account that leitner wins nothing in the air and doesnt tackle, Mclean won the ball back more than Vrancic and gave it away less whilst winning over double the amount of aerial challenges it's not actually difficult to argue that overall Mclean is a better option than both Leitner and Vrancic

Winning the ball is the job of the defensive midfield player (Trybull, Tettey) not the creative CM.

Yes we do need beef in the middle of the park but next you're be suggesting that Andy Hughes was better at winning the ball than Crook, Suggett & Paddon so would be the better option !

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11 minutes ago, Six Pack said:

Winning the ball is the job of the defensive midfield player (Trybull, Tettey) not the creative CM.

Yes we do need beef in the middle of the park but next you're be suggesting that Andy Hughes was better at winning the ball than Crook, Suggett & Paddon so would be the better option !

The good thing about Mclean at championship level is he can win the ball, carry the ball, score and assist. That's why he'll play most games next season if he's fit, and why Farke rates him so highly.

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29 minutes ago, Six Pack said:

What I actually meant is how much the player in the position actually contributed to gaining the points, not what the others in the team did. From your stats 2.27ppg makes McLean looks a "world beater" but the brilliance of other team members got the points, while for example Vrancic when he was out there scored the goals; made the assists to get the points. Leitner with his passing ability help gain possession of the ball to control midfield. McLean - when others didn't shine our midfield looked dreadful and was scrapping for draws. Example: away against Wigan in that promotion season - No Buendia magic - McLean and Trybull showed me exactly how good they actually are, completely outplayed by a lowly Wigan side just above the drop zone.

I appreciated the dogged performances of McLean last season but please dont suggust he to better than Leitner or Vrancic in the CM role - to me he comes a distant second.

So it's just a complete coincidence that results were better with McLean in the side? Everyone else just happened to play so much better with Kenny in there, while they didn't perform at their best when Moritz and Mario played?

Maybe, just maybe, it's that McLean does the defensive side of the game much better and is much more physical than the other two, which means the team plays better as a result.

I remember in 2003 when Real Madrid, probably the best side in the world at the time, sold Claude Makelele because the President said that he only passes backwards and sideways, and lacks the speed and skill to dribble past opponents. He completely forgot (or didn't realise) that Makelele doing the dirty jobs that a lot of people didn't notice was crucial to the team and by letting him go and not signing another defensive midfielder to replace him, they didn't win another trophy until 2007.

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1 minute ago, hogesar said:

The good thing about Mclean at championship level is he can win the ball, carry the ball, score and assist. That's why he'll play most games next season if he's fit, and why Farke rates him so highly.

win the ball, carry the ball, score and assist ??? Ok why didn't he do that last time then ? Must be a secret hidden talent so secret he doesn't even reveal it on match days !

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Championship 2018/19:

Vrancic, 14 starts, 2.07 PPG

Leitner, 19 starts, 2.05 PPG

McLean, 15 starts, 2.27 PPG

While there are obviously many other factors to consider, this is fairly difficult to argue with.

I believe that along with his faults (and who doesn't have faults), Kenny offers much more than he's generally given credit for.

I'm a huge fan of Vrancic, but it's too easy to see what you want to see sometimes.

Edited by South Sider

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