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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Indy said:

That’s always been the case, we’ve always been able to find some gems to develop and sell to balance the debts. To be a little lenient on Chase he did buy a lot of the LS land which helped the club in more recent times.

I’m more at ease with the current way of developing the youngsters keeping the wages under control. More exciting watching youngsters come through.

Exactly, it's the reality of our club and Chase was a realist. which is why I don't understand why people think that selling Sutton and buying Ward at a much cheaper cost shows any more ambition than selling Maddison and buying Buendia 

Edited by seanthecanary
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14 minutes ago, seanthecanary said:

Exactly, it's the reality of our club and Chase was a realist. which is why I don't understand why people think that selling Sutton and buying Ward at a much cheaper cost shows any more ambition than selling Maddison and buying Buendia 

To be fair it's not really just our club. Would any Champs club have held in to Maddison for another year?

 

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1 hour ago, seanthecanary said:

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't say no to a little more ambition being shown.  That said, I cannot accept that Chase ever had any ambition beyond balancing the books.   

What a strange comment. We had our most successfull seasons under Chase i.e. qualifying for Europe. He did a great juggling act in the transfer markets to keep the finances straight  but at the same time we always had a decent team. Surely Webber is doing exactly the same, you have only to look at the Maddison deal. However compared with Chase he is regarded as some sort of hero perhaps because he is outspoken and everyone believes him. By the way how much have we spent on the ground in the Delia years. Not a patch on Chase. Finally it is a total myth to suggest both Delia and Chase took a lot of money out of the Club. Before becoming involved they both already ran very profitable businesses.

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, vos said:

What a strange comment. We had our most successfull seasons under Chase i.e. qualifying for Europe. He did a great juggling act in the transfer markets to keep the finances straight  but at the same time we always had a decent team. Surely Webber is doing exactly the same, you have only to look at the Maddison deal. However compared with Chase he is regarded as some sort of hero perhaps because he is outspoken and everyone believes him. By the way how much have we spent on the ground in the Delia years. Not a patch on Chase. Finally it is a total myth to suggest both Delia and Chase took a lot of money out of the Club. Before becoming involved they both already ran very profitable businesses.

I didn't say we weren't successful, I said he didn't show any more ambition than we are now. We sold our best players and bought cheaper replacements in the hope of building them up to then sell on for more Ambitious clubs don't continually sell their best players. Yes Webber is doing the same thing, it's a point I've made several times in this thread. 

I didn't even come close to even insinuating he took money out of the club so I'm struggling to see why you've even brought that up. I'm not bad mouthing the guy, he did what he did. As i said, he was a realist but let's not rewrite history and try to claim he was super ambitious. Maybe I'm going senile at 40 but I remember many city fans criticising the club for lack of ambition at that time, despite the heights we hit. 

Edited by seanthecanary

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4 minutes ago, seanthecanary said:

I didn't say we weren't successful, I said he didn't show any more ambition than we are now. We sold our best players and bought cheaper replacements in the hope of building them up to then sell on for me. Ambitious clubs don't continually sell their best players.

I didn't even come close to even insinuating he took money out of the club so I'm struggling to see why you've even brought that up. I'm not bad mouthing the guy, he did what he did. As i said, he was a realist but let's not rewrite history and try to claim he was super ambitious. 

To be fair, the money gap between ur club and the rest in the Chase reign was a lot closer, I doubt wages and revenue were as disjointed as they are now in the premiership. So we had nine solid years in the top flight.

I don’t think anyone has insinuated Chase had taken any money out, but definitely different times to now.

But it does look like times are starting to change again, FFP, salary caps and squad numbers restrictions look to be levelling the divisions a bit more, it should make the competitive nature better and hopefully ensure clubs don’t gamble money they can’t afford. Should be fun to see if EPL will do the same or buckle under the pressure of the mega rich owners!

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1 hour ago, nutty nigel said:

To be fair it's not really just our club. Would any Champs club have held in to Maddison for another year?

 

No, they wouldn't have nutty. For some reason though when another club does it, it's just the realities of football. When we do it though we're "little old Norwich" 

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Contrasting the Chase and Smith and Jones eras simply by listing the achievements is meaningless. The massive financial changes in English foorball betwee those two eras have to be factored in.

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Sean/Purple/Indy   Before anyone asks what Robert Chase has to do with  the Lewis Transfer Fee, I was mainly responding because I thought "the lack of ambition" was an unreasonable comment. I think any UK private investor must have some sort of ambition to become involved in a major football club. Although perhaps some would say they are mad. There have been endless past comments on this site suggesting the owners helped themselves and only recently linking the non-existent expenditure at the beginning of the season just gone, some people have stupidly accused Delia/Michael of withholding money for their own benefit. Clearly I was not referring these observations to you guys and in the case of RC substantial money was spent on ground improvements. Over the two eras I can't see that individual achievements have changed but current  football finance is much in line with the UK economy i.e. the rich get richer etc etc.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, vos said:

Sean/Purple/Indy   Before anyone asks what Robert Chase has to do with  the Lewis Transfer Fee, I was mainly responding because I thought "the lack of ambition" was an unreasonable comment. I think any UK private investor must have some sort of ambition to become involved in a major football club. Although perhaps some would say they are mad. There have been endless past comments on this site suggesting the owners helped themselves and only recently linking the non-existent expenditure at the beginning of the season just gone, some people have stupidly accused Delia/Michael of withholding money for their own benefit. Clearly I was not referring these observations to you guys and in the case of RC substantial money was spent on ground improvements. Over the two eras I can't see that individual achievements have changed but current  football finance is much in line with the UK economy i.e. the rich get richer etc etc.

The point I was trying to make, maybe badly was that Chase was pragmatic and realistic. He didn't have overly lofty ambitions for the club, he was just trying to keep it afloat and competitive within it's means. What I've been saying this whole thread is that his philosophy is no different to how things are being done now and that I don't think Chase or Delia/MWJ have any more or less ambition than the other. The transfer policy is basically identical, buy on the cheaper end, try to improve the player and sell them for more. I'm not trying to say Chase didn't oversee success, we had a decade where as a club we were terrific at seeing potential in players most clubs overlooked. We built our best side off the back of it and sold players regularly for big fees. I maintain the ambition is still the same though, just that for that period in the 80s and 90s they were more successful at doing it over a number of years. I just don't think it's fair that fans are now building up Chase and knocking down the current owners for doing things the same way. 

Edited by seanthecanary
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5 hours ago, Indy said:

To be fair, the money gap between ur club and the rest in the Chase reign was a lot closer, I doubt wages and revenue were as disjointed as they are now in the premiership.

I remember reading in Gunny's book about the wage situation, where he said that they were by no means the best paid in terms of basic salary in the league, but that the bonus system was superb and a real incentive to try to be competitive and keep winning runs going.

Whereas now you have players on 200k a week PLUS excellent bonuses and they still have the nerve to complain and plead hardships and short careers.

Until the money disparity is sorted in some form, the gaps will continue to widen - not just between the leagues, but between the individual sides in the leagues, to the point where it will be almost impossible for some clubs to stay up after promotion as the other teams around them will simply massively outspend them to results.

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3 hours ago, vos said:

Sean/Purple/Indy   Before anyone asks what Robert Chase has to do with  the Lewis Transfer Fee, I was mainly responding because I thought "the lack of ambition" was an unreasonable comment. I think any UK private investor must have some sort of ambition to become involved in a major football club. Although perhaps some would say they are mad. There have been endless past comments on this site suggesting the owners helped themselves and only recently linking the non-existent expenditure at the beginning of the season just gone, some people have stupidly accused Delia/Michael of withholding money for their own benefit. Clearly I was not referring these observations to you guys and in the case of RC substantial money was spent on ground improvements. Over the two eras I can't see that individual achievements have changed but current  football finance is much in line with the UK economy i.e. the rich get richer etc etc.

In fairness to Chase the ground was seldom full and he never had access to all the record Sky Payments and the parachute bonuses. 

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Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

In fairness to Chase the ground was seldom full and he never had access to all the record Sky Payments and the parachute bonuses. 

I accept the point and I remember being at Carrow Road struggling to get 16,000 in when tickets were £1. No clubs had sky money though, many grounds weren't full to capacity and clubs like Wimbledon didn't even have their own stadium. It was to some extent a more level playing field. This season, 12 clubs in the PL are owned by billionaires and with Fulham, next season there will 13. 

Edited by seanthecanary

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1 hour ago, Midlands Yellow said:

In fairness to Chase the ground was seldom full and he never had access to all the record Sky Payments and the parachute bonuses. 

None of the other clubs had sky payments either though.

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12 minutes ago, hogesar said:

None of the other clubs had sky payments either though.

Which camp were you in for what constitutes success? League 1 title and Championship titles or Milk cup win, European cup run and 2 F.A cup semis. I forgot the 3rd, 4th and 5th top flight finishes too in the latter. 

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5 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Which camp were you in for what constitutes success? League 1 title and Championship titles or Milk cup win, European cup run and 2 F.A cup semis. I forgot the 3rd, 4th and 5th top flight finishes too in the latter. 

I dont think I could give an unbiased answer if I'm honest because I wasn't alive to experience anything under Chase. Only got stories from my dad for that!

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What would we rather see the club do in the 2024/25 season, for example? Win the third tier or finish mid-table in the Premier League? Considering the position we are in now, the latter would mean the next five years are successful and the former would mean failure.

Personally, I think that answers the question as to what to class as success when you look at the bigger picture: the higher you are in the pyramid, the more successful you are as a club.

However, I see Nutty's point about the League One title win. Promotions and title wins always create better, longer lasting memories than mid-table seasons, regardless of what division they're in.

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8 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Which camp were you in for what constitutes success? League 1 title and Championship titles or Milk cup win, European cup run and 2 F.A cup semis. I forgot the 3rd, 4th and 5th top flight finishes too in the latter. 

I don't think anyone has said that a 3rd place finish in the PL or winning the league Cup is not success for a club like City. No one has said beating Bayern away from home wasn't a massive achievement. We deserved it as well, it wasn't luck or a rearguard action. No one said that it wasn't a successful period. 

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8 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Personally, I think that answers the question as to what to class as success when you look at the bigger picture: the higher you are in the pyramid, the more successful you are as a club.

However, I see Nutty's point about the League One title win. Promotions and title wins always create better, longer lasting memories than mid-table seasons, regardless of what division they're in.

Exactly.

I'm not sure anyone has argued that winning League One is a bigger achievement than finishing 11th in the Premier League (apologies if they have), just that it was infinitely more enjoyable. Overhauling Leeds and winning the league will hold a more vivid place in my memory than the season under Hughton until my dying day but it seems "The Purists" have reformed and their enjoyment is measured by where we finish overall in the pyramid. Hence my facetious post earlier about preferring the Championship relegation to the League One title win; it's a bigger achievement. 42nd over 45th any day of the week, eh lads?

 

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Exactly Duncan.

Earlier in the thread I even listed the seasons. If people honestly went to Carrow Road during those times they would remember it as a decade of intermittent protest punctuated by some brilliant seasons where the protestors wound their necks in. Similarly to what happened in October 2018 on here. Interestingly not in the stadium where we've never seen a fraction  of the discontent under the current custodians.

Anyway, there's some in here who can't airbrush their part in that history however much they'd like to🙃

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Just now, Midlands Yellow said:

You know your history for someone born in the 80s. 

You invent your history for those born earlier...

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47 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

You invent your history for those born earlier...

It’s all there to view and can’t  be changed however much you’d like to do so. 

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What a pity we don't have someone from those days who had an alternative view. Maybe someone who was part of a protest group from those times.

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