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17 minutes ago, Indy_Bones said:

Is that not what you wrote NN???

Yes but that wasn't the seasons we challenged for the PL. I quite clearly said also ran seasons. 

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5 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

2 FA Cup semis and a couple of winning rounds in Europe would struggle to get us into the top 26 too.

For me, I enjoy watching Norwich win things. I'd take winning at Wembley over any amount of your losing FA cup semi-finals. I'd take winning the league over every one of your also ran seasons. So that just leaves two season out of 118 where we challenged to win the top division. And in those we finished 3rd and 4th.

 

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5 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

It's not my fault you cant read. Winning the league, even league one, is better than your celebrated also ran seasons. The only two seasons where we made any attempt to win the top division we finished 3rd and 4th. I really enjoyed those but twice in 118 years would hardly get us into the top 50 would it? 

 

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Playing in ANY season in the Premier League regardless of finishing place is STILL better than winning League 1 in terms of performance of the club.

May not be as enjoyable to watch, and we may not win as many, but we're playing against the best, not against much weaker sides at lower levels, and thus the acheivment as a club by simply being in the PL is much better than winning a league title two tiers down from that.

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Isn't this thread supposed to be about the Liverpool offer, not who won what cup. Can't you create a who won what cup seperate thread so we can discuss derisory offers 🙂

Was interested to see BBC post that Man C wanted £30m for Garcia their 18/19yr old, who's only played a handful of games. Is that realistic or is Lewis being undervalued

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5 minutes ago, Indy_Bones said:

Playing in ANY season in the Premier League regardless of finishing place is STILL better than winning League 1 in terms of performance of the club.

May not be as enjoyable to watch, and we may not win as many, but we're playing against the best, not against much weaker sides at lower levels, and thus the acheivment as a club by simply being in the PL is much better than winning a league title two tiers down from that.

That may be so if, like Indy, your enjoyment is measured by what you can brag to other clubs.

As I said I enjoy seeing us win things. It's not just me either. Carrow road was a far happier place in league one than it was during some of those protest also ran seasons in the late 80s early 90s

Did you go during those also ran seasons?

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5 minutes ago, Samwam27 said:

Isn't this thread supposed to be about the Liverpool offer, not who won what cup. Can't you create a who won what cup seperate thread so we can discuss derisory offers 🙂

Was interested to see BBC post that Man C wanted £30m for Garcia their 18/19yr old, who's only played a handful of games. Is that realistic or is Lewis being undervalued

If you think that you obviously didn't read the opening post.🙃

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Samwam27 said:

Isn't this thread supposed to be about the Liverpool offer, not who won what cup. Can't you create a who won what cup seperate thread so we can discuss derisory offers 🙂

Was interested to see BBC post that Man C wanted £30m for Garcia their 18/19yr old, who's only played a handful of games. Is that realistic or is Lewis being undervalued

Man City have slapped that tag on him because Barcelona have identified him as a long-term replacement for Pique, I believe. I think about half that price for a backup left-back is about fair; if we can get £15m plus add-ons, that'd be a decent enough deal. 

Additionally, Citeh can bump the price up because they're a force in the PL and Europe with a billionaire owner; their interpretation of 'we have no need to sell' is a little different to ours! 🙂

Edited by Feedthewolf
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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

That may be so if, like Indy, your enjoyment is measured by what you can brag to other clubs.

As I said I enjoy seeing us win things. It's not just me either. Carrow road was a far happier place in league one than it was during some of those protest also ran seasons in the late 80s early 90s

Did you go during those also ran seasons?

I started supporting the club aged 7 (I'm now 41) and due to living in Rotherham most of my life, my early viewing was almost all TV based unless we were playing the likes of Sheff Wed/Utd, Barnsley etc (that's as far as my dad would drive me to games as a non-football fan himself).

My key memories of those earlier years are mainly of the Stringer and Walker sides, some posters may remember I did a bit of football writing on the sadly gone "The Nest" site during the Worthy and Grant days as well, so I'm not going to claim 1st hand knowledge of the club under the likes of Macaulay, Saunders, Bond or much of Ken Brown's time here, but I do know most of my favourite seasons as a supporter have been in the Premier League rather than the Champs.

Seeing Darren Eadie playing for us after the PL relegation was one of the few things I truly enjoyed in the champs for 5-6 years, I was gutted when he left, and felt gutted for him when he had to retire. I remember the heartbreak of the 2002 play-off final, and I remember watching Hucks sowing fear through teams when we got back to the PL in 04/05 even if the season itself ended with that disastrous Fulham game.

There followed more years of pretty hard to watch stuff under Grant, Roeder and Gunn, then Lambert's arrival and 3 fantastic seasons where I felt we could beat anyone on our day.

It's been a total yo-yo since then, and in truth it's hard to claim that our PL seasons from Hughton's appointment to now haven't been worse than our Champs season in terms of results and watchability, but the best seasons for me have genuinely been mainly in the PL.

Would I love to have seen the team of last year tear the PL a new one this season - absolutely, but times have moved on from not only the glory days of the 80's and 90's, but even from Lambert's time just 8 years ago, and the gulf between the leagues in only getting wider, but even with all that, I'm not going to ever feel that winning a Champs or League 1 title is a better acheivment than playing in the PL (and certainly not playing WELL in the PL like we did under Lambert), even if at times the football may be easier to watch and a better chance of good results at those lower levels.

You can only look the best if you play against the best, and as in any sport, beating a team or players further down the rankings still isn't as good as nearly beating the very best. This season we made Man City look like mugs in September, this despite their billions and despite them finishing 2nd in the league, and that for me is better than winning a League 1 title against the likes of Colchester, Yeovil and Hartlepool...

Edited by Indy_Bones

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I enjoyed getting relegated from the Championship more than winning league One because we finished higher in the pyramid and played against better teams. 

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16 minutes ago, Indy_Bones said:

I started supporting the club aged 7 (I'm now 41) and due to living in Rotherham most of my life, my early viewing was almost all TV based unless we were playing the likes of Sheff Wed/Utd, Barnsley etc (that's as far as my dad would drive me to games as a non-football fan himself).

My key memories of those earlier years are mainly of the Stringer and Walker sides, some posters may remember I did a bit of football writing on the sadly gone "The Nest" site during the Worthy and Grant days as well, so I'm not going to claim 1st hand knowledge of the club under the likes of Macaulay, Saunders, Bond or much of Ken Brown's time here, but I do know most of my favourite seasons as a supporter have been in the Premier League rather than the Champs.

Seeing Darren Eadie playing for us after the PL relegation was one of the few things I truly enjoyed in the champs for 5-6 years, I was gutted when he left, and felt gutted for him when he had to retire. I remember the heartbreak of the 2002 play-off final, and I remember watching Hucks sowing fear through teams when we got back to the PL in 04/05 even if the season itself ended with that disastrous Fulham game.

There followed more years of pretty hard to watch stuff under Grant, Roeder and Gunn, then Lambert's arrival and 3 fantastic seasons where I felt we could beat anyone on our day.

It's been a total yo-yo since then, and in truth it's hard to claim that our PL seasons from Hughton's appointment to now haven't been worse than our Champs season in terms of results and watchability, but the best seasons for me have genuinely been mainly in the PL.

Would I love to have seen the team of last year tear the PL a new one this season - absolutely, but times have moved on from not only the glory days of the 80's and 90's, but even from Lambert's time just 8 years ago, and the gulf between the leagues in only getting wider, but even with all that, I'm not going to ever feel that winning a Champs or League 1 title is a better acheivment than playing in the PL (and certainly not playing WELL in the PL like we did under Lambert), even if at times the football may be easier to watch and a better chance of good results at those lower levels.

You can only look the best if you play against the best, and as in any sport, beating a team or players further down the rankings still isn't as good as nearly beating the very best. This season we made Man City look like mugs in September, this despite their billions and despite them finishing 2nd in the league, and that for me is better than winning a League 1 title against the likes of Colchester, Yeovil and Hartlepool...

That's fine Indy. I wouldn't want to take away your happy memories or belittle them in anyway.

One of the ways I know how good a season is is by how loud the OTBC is when we're on top. During good times it kind of echoes or reverberates around you. That doesn't happen because of the so called status of our club. It happens when the times are good and our club and fans are really united. It certainly happened a during the late 80s and early 90s. But there were other also ran seasons in those years when it didn't.

The late 80s early 90s were pretty much like now in that there'd be seasons of whingeing and whining including many real protests. But then we'd have a good season and the whingers wound their necks in.

The season we were in with a real chance of winning the double at Easter was my favourite season. 1992/93 was amazing but not quite as good. The next season we won in Munich which was iconic. But what if the other 7? What made them so memorable?

1991/92 we finished 18th. If it was now 92/93 would have been in the champs. We beat Barnsley, Millwall, Nott's Co and Southampton, all at home to get to the FA Cup semi where we lost to Sunderland who were bottom half champs at the time. For me this seasons cup run was better. Far better. But then there's those record books...

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6 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

The season we were in with a real chance of winning the double at Easter was my favourite season. 1992/93 was amazing but not quite as good. The next season we won in Munich which was iconic. But what if the other 7? What made them so memorable?

If anything NN it was the way we played football in such a strong passing and attacking manner despite having pretty much no big name players on the books.

You'd see those passes from Crook and wonder how the hell we'd got a player with that passing range for so cheap and why nobody else was looking to take him away. You'd see the pace and flair of Dale Gordon and later Ruel Fox that were true wingers in the classic sense and you always felt they could get past a defender either with pace or trickery. There were the classic Gossy strikes that often came out of nowhere, and Bowen had to be one of the most underappreciated fullbacks to grace the PL (much like Drury was).

Even in the games we lost, there'd still be moments of magic or excellent passing (even if we'd probably concede shortly after), and it really felt like an actual team of talented and undervalued players rather than billy big balls or over the hill journeymen, and as usual, at key moments, the bigger sides with cash would come in and off they'd go only for us to find another hidden gem for a bargain or a youth player (e.g. Sutton, Eadie, Bellamy etc) who would break through and impress.

You had club legends like Gunny, players who really did seem to get what Norwich as a club and community actually meant, and although we've had others over the years (such as Hucks), there just seemed to be MORE of it at the time (maybe that's just nostalgia talking?).

As you say, the Munich games will always be iconic to City fans, as will the classic 'Canary Droppings' kit which is still my all time favourite.

There's also something undefinable about those years as well, maybe it's simply remembering things with tinted glasses, where I'm able to look past the weaker seasons and just remember the football we played at times, maybe it's just because I was younger, more impressionable and less knowledgable at the time, but give me a choice of only two seasons to be able to watch over and over again, it would be the 92/93 season which set us up for THAT Munich tie, and the 11/12 season under Lambert - both of which were in the PL but with nearly 20 years separating them...

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You are destined to live your life in disappointment Indy. Just like the fans of all those other clubs who hanker for their best ever three seasons.

Tim Krul at Spurs this season will be an iconic moment for so many too young to remember Gunny. And there's been sooo many club legends throughout the time since 1994. 

When I started going in the sixties the old boys used to tell me our players weren't a patch in the 59ers. Even when we got to the top tier for the first time they still maintained the 59ers were better. 

Maybe going as a kid then with my kids and then with the grandkids effects my perspective. But I wouldn't change any of it.

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3 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Indy's cleared off. Probably to boast on another team's board about losing two fa cup semis 🏆🚫🏆🚫

Talk about putting words into people’s mouths, you bought up boasting, I never said anything about boasting about anything, just said I rather boast of top flight finish than your third division finish!

Anyhow, I’ve had a great night can see nutty has too as he defends the honour of Sant Delia and her club.....

Shame that nutty doesn’t except people have the right to voice a difference of opinion, so I’m happy to enjoy success with the failure at all levels, but find finishing third in the top flight far more of an achievement than winning the third division, you would rather win the third division that’s fine you get a trophy for winning the third division! Glory Hunter! 👍💚🍻

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Just now, Indy said:

Talk about putting words into people’s mouths, you bought up boasting, I never said anything about boasting about anything, just said If I had to I’d rather boast of top flight finish than your third division finish!

Anyhow, I’ve had a great night can see nutty has too as he defends the honour of Sant Delia and her club.....

Shame that nutty doesn’t except people have the right to voice a difference of opinion, so I’m happy to enjoy success with the failure at all levels, but find finishing third in the top flight far more of an achievement than winning the third division, you would rather win the third division that’s fine you get a trophy for winning the third division! Glory Hunter! 👍💚🍻

 

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7 minutes ago, Desert_Fox_2 said:
It seems that all opinions are valid  but "all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"

Every one's opinion counts, it just counts more if you get the NN seal of approval / agreement. 

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Indy_Bones said:

If anything NN it was the way we played football in such a strong passing and attacking manner despite having pretty much no big name players on the books.

You'd see those passes from Crook and wonder how the hell we'd got a player with that passing range for so cheap and why nobody else was looking to take him away. You'd see the pace and flair of Dale Gordon and later Ruel Fox that were true wingers in the classic sense and you always felt they could get past a defender either with pace or trickery. There were the classic Gossy strikes that often came out of nowhere, and Bowen had to be one of the most underappreciated fullbacks to grace the PL (much like Drury was).

Even in the games we lost, there'd still be moments of magic or excellent passing (even if we'd probably concede shortly after), and it really felt like an actual team of talented and undervalued players rather than billy big balls or over the hill journeymen, and as usual, at key moments, the bigger sides with cash would come in and off they'd go only for us to find another hidden gem for a bargain or a youth player (e.g. Sutton, Eadie, Bellamy etc) who would break through and impress.

You had club legends like Gunny, players who really did seem to get what Norwich as a club and community actually meant, and although we've had others over the years (such as Hucks), there just seemed to be MORE of it at the time (maybe that's just nostalgia talking?).

As you say, the Munich games will always be iconic to City fans, as will the classic 'Canary Droppings' kit which is still my all time favourite.

There's also something undefinable about those years as well, maybe it's simply remembering things with tinted glasses, where I'm able to look past the weaker seasons and just remember the football we played at times, maybe it's just because I was younger, more impressionable and less knowledgable at the time, but give me a choice of only two seasons to be able to watch over and over again, it would be the 92/93 season which set us up for THAT Munich tie, and the 11/12 season under Lambert - both of which were in the PL but with nearly 20 years separating them...

That's the side I grew up with and what a side it was.! I was 13 when City played in Europe and I remember one game was played on a weekday afternoon (Inter?), our teacher wheeled a TV into the classroom and we watched it at school during geography.  As I said earlier in the thread though, I don't see how what we did then is so different to what we are trying to do now.  There seems to be inspiration drawn from that era to try and unearth a gem from a lower league, bring through our own youth or identify good young players who have slipped through the cracks at "bigger" clubs.  Spurs were a goldmine for us.

This whole debate has sprung from a claim that we were a top 6 side and that there was more ambition being shown then.  As Nigel pointed out, we finished top 6 3 times and not consistently.  I don't see that we were anymore ambitious either.  Despite some wonderful highlights I still remember the talk of us lacking ambition back then too.  There would always be a conversation going on about what if's and what a world beating side we would have if we still had Chris Woods, Steve Bruce, Dave Watson, Mike Phelan, Andy Townsend and all the other top players we sold to balance the books over those years.

Edited by seanthecanary

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10 hours ago, Indy_Bones said:

and Bowen had to be one of the most underappreciated fullbacks to grace the PL (much like Drury was).

I would include Culverhouse in that as well.  He had a touch of class which was highlighted when later on he played centrally as a sweeper.  He and Bowen are the best pair of full backs I've ever seen in a City shirt.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Still you do it.

Thank the Lord for the other Indy.

And yet you start it! If you don’t like my opinion then fine don’t react if you don’t like my debate, I never singled you out I said my piece and off you go on a two page crusade to try and tell us winning the third division in your opinion is better than finishing third in the top flight.

For info I said !

Same old same old, those who think Saint Delia time in charge is the bestest ever, others think top flight football with a top flight trophy win, two semi FA cup finals and European football is far more to boast about, I have to agree with the latter, as successful as a league one win and a couple Championship wins are they don’t compare to the previous seasons! We’ll each to their own I say! I enjoyed them all!👍💚💛🍻

So I’ll leave it there, if you pull me up for a debate next time I’ll just agree you your view of all things it’ll make life a lot easier!

 

Edited by Indy

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, seanthecanary said:

That's the side I grew up with and what a side it was.! I was 13 when City played in Europe and I remember one game was played on a weekday afternoon (Inter?), our teacher wheeled a TV into the classroom and we watched it at school during geography.  As I said earlier in the thread though, I don't see how what we did then is so different to what we are trying to do now.  There seems to be inspiration drawn from that era to try and unearth a gem from a lower league, bring through our own youth or identify good young players who have slipped through the cracks at "bigger" clubs.  Spurs were a goldmine for us.

This whole debate has sprung from a claim that we were a top 6 side and that there was more ambition being shown then.  As Nigel pointed out, we finished top 6 3 times and not consistently.  I don't see that we were anymore ambitious either.  Despite some wonderful highlights I still remember the talk of us lacking ambition back then too.  There would always be a conversation going on about what if's and what a world beating side we would have if we still had Chris Woods, Steve Bruce, Dave Watson, Mike Phelan, Andy Townsend and all the other top players we sold to balance the books over those years.

Very much spot on, we’ve always been a selling club as far back to when I started to go in the late 70’s, I remember Kevin Reaves my favourite player at the time being our first million + pound transfer to Man City around 1980 when Bond left us to take charge there.

Edited by Indy

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4 minutes ago, Indy said:

Very much spot on, we’ve always been a selling club as far back to when I started to go in the late 70’s, I remember Kevin Reaves my favourite player at the time being our first million + pound transfer to Man City around 1980 when Bond left us to take charge there.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't say no to a little more ambition being shown.  That said, I cannot accept that Chase ever had any ambition beyond balancing the books.   

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17 minutes ago, Indy said:

And yet you start it! If you don’t like my opinion then fine don’t react if you don’t like my debate, I never singled you out I said my piece and off you go on a two page crusade to try and tell us winning the third division in your opinion is better than finishing third in the top flight.

For info I said !

Same old same old, those who think Saint Delia time in charge is the bestest ever, others think top flight football with a top flight trophy win, two semi FA cup finals and European football is far more to boast about, I have to agree with the latter, as successful as a league one win and a couple Championship wins are they don’t compare to the previous seasons! We’ll each to their own I say! I enjoyed them all!👍💚💛🍻

So I’ll leave it there, if you pull me up for a debate next time I’ll just agree you your view of all things it’ll make life a lot easier!

 

Except I didn't say that winning the third division was better than finishing 3rd in the top flight. 

So you were debating with yourself anyway🙃😂👏

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Except I didn't say that winning the third division was better than finishing 3rd in the top flight. 

So you were debating with yourself anyway🙃😂👏

 

 

 

Yes whatever you say 👍

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Just now, Indy said:

Yes whatever you say 👍

It would help if that was what you used when debating with me.👍

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12 minutes ago, seanthecanary said:

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't say no to a little more ambition being shown.  That said, I cannot accept that Chase ever had any ambition beyond balancing the books.   

That’s always been the case, we’ve always been able to find some gems to develop and sell to balance the debts. To be a little lenient on Chase he did buy a lot of the LS land which helped the club in more recent times.

I’m more at ease with the current way of developing the youngsters keeping the wages under control. More exciting watching youngsters come through.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

It would help if that was what you used when debating with me.👍

Yes whatever you say 👍

Edited by Indy

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