Worst team in Europe after Lockdown

[Aggy 747]

3 hours ago, Duncan Edwards said:

What are you on about? 

I said that I found it depressing that I was in the minority - what i meant was I'd still prefer us to play an exciting brand of attacking football and that I haven't sought to devalue what we did as title winners or conveniently forgot the good parts of the Premier League season. I find that revisionism depressing. 

You've then decided that I meant it was depressing that you wanted Norwich to win some games of football🤷‍♂️. I've responded by explaining I'm fed up with good things being apportioned to luck and bad things being deemed "spot on". I also pointed out that my "Jack it in" comment was nothing to do with you. I perhaps should have been clearer that I was explaining my comment, not saying you had said we were lucky. Although if I wanted an argument it wouldn't be outlandish to think that if you paper over cracks and it holds that it might be deemed fortunate. But I don't. 👍

As for your last line, and you accuse me of making things up😂

 

What am I on about? All i said in this thread was that I’d rather we start the season winning games scruffily, get points on the board and build up to better performances as players settle (as opposed to losing games but playing nice football).

You then quoted me, suggested what I had said amazed you, that you disagreed and were in the minority because of that view, and that it depressed you and you might jack it.

I haven’t decided you meant anything, I’ve just read your posts. 

You then followed up by rabbiting on about luck - I hadn’t once mentioned luck so I’m not sure why that’s relevant. If you’re talking about other people talking about luck, great, but then don’t quote my posts which don’t refer to luck perhaps? 

Papering over the cracks of a less than great defence doesn’t mean you were lucky. Our attack was awesome and we deserved to win the league based on that. But our defence wasn’t great. I’ve said in is thread that personally, I hope we don’t just try and rely on scoring more than opponents again this season because even if it gets us promoted, we’ll just come back down again. We need to work on the balance of the side and the improve the defence so we stand a better chance next time.

What in that depresses you and irritates you I do not know. As I said, if you’re offended or depressed by someone saying they hope we win games of football and hope we improve our defence so we stand a better chance of staying up next time we’re promoted, then yep, best to jack it in.

 

[Duncan Edwards 2,216]

25 minutes ago, Aggy said:

What am I on about? All i said in this thread was that I’d rather we start the season winning games scruffily, get points on the board and build up to better performances as players settle (as opposed to losing games but playing nice football).

You then quoted me, suggested what I had said amazed you, that you disagreed and were in the minority because of that view, and that it depressed you and you might jack it.

I haven’t decided you meant anything, I’ve just read your posts. 

You then followed up by rabbiting on about luck - I hadn’t once mentioned luck so I’m not sure why that’s relevant. If you’re talking about other people talking about luck, great, but then don’t quote my posts which don’t refer to luck perhaps? 

Papering over the cracks of a less than great defence doesn’t mean you were lucky. Our attack was awesome and we deserved to win the league based on that. But our defence wasn’t great. I’ve said in is thread that personally, I hope we don’t just try and rely on scoring more than opponents again this season because even if it gets us promoted, we’ll just come back down again. We need to work on the balance of the side and the improve the defence so we stand a better chance next time.

What in that depresses you and irritates you I do not know. As I said, if you’re offended or depressed by someone saying they hope we win games of football and hope we improve our defence so we stand a better chance of staying up next time we’re promoted, then yep, best to jack it in.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with every word of that. 

[Duncan Edwards 2,216]

29 minutes ago, Aggy said:

What am I on about? All i said in this thread was that I’d rather we start the season winning games scruffily, get points on the board and build up to better performances as players settle (as opposed to losing games but playing nice football).

You then quoted me, suggested what I had said amazed you, that you disagreed and were in the minority because of that view, and that it depressed you and you might jack it.

I haven’t decided you meant anything, I’ve just read your posts. 

You then followed up by rabbiting on about luck - I hadn’t once mentioned luck so I’m not sure why that’s relevant. If you’re talking about other people talking about luck, great, but then don’t quote my posts which don’t refer to luck perhaps? 

Papering over the cracks of a less than great defence doesn’t mean you were lucky. Our attack was awesome and we deserved to win the league based on that. But our defence wasn’t great. I’ve said in is thread that personally, I hope we don’t just try and rely on scoring more than opponents again this season because even if it gets us promoted, we’ll just come back down again. We need to work on the balance of the side and the improve the defence so we stand a better chance next time.

What in that depresses you and irritates you I do not know. As I said, if you’re offended or depressed by someone saying they hope we win games of football and hope we improve our defence so we stand a better chance of staying up next time we’re promoted, then yep, best to jack it in.

 

I have edited my original post as I believe this is where the confusion has stemmed from, in so much that you thought all of my post was directed specifically to you when it was meant generally as I've tried to explain. 

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

3 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

Those were the results from the start of the season in the month of August 2018 but apparently we played well from the word go if you bother to read the post i was quoting.

I did, and thats why I mentioned performances, as well as results, you focus on one, I also take the other Into account. A little defensive lately Tillo?  Maybe you could sort our back line and the two in front of it ,out.  Easy to critique not so easy to rectify.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

5 hours ago, Duncan Edwards said:

I have edited my original post as I believe this is where the confusion has stemmed from, in so much that you thought all of my post was directed specifically to you when it was meant generally as I've tried to explain. 

Hi Duncan, did you disagree with my thoughts on our downturn on the previous page?

Edited August 5, 2020 by Hank shoots Skyler

[nutty nigel 7,506]

9 hours ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Yes, if only us fans could've been there versus Southampton, we then would've outmatched them mentally, physically and tactically - instead of being absolutely embarrassed in every single department... If only the fans were there to stop our team being knackered after 60 minutes while the opposition ran rings round us...

I'm not sure how much you truly back this view, but you seem very dead set in your mind that it is the lack of home support that caused our post-lockdown demise. Although I take the compliment that you feel our fans are somehow superior at willing the team on than other teams' fans, I'm not entirely sure that's the case - nor am I sure how you can justify it.

To my mind, it is much more likely that the players were - for whatever reason - ill-prepared during a 4 months break in the season to put together anything resembling a fight. The injury to Zimmerman was also a blow of course.

But it seems to you that:

Worst form in Europe post-lockdown = we have the best fans in Europe?

In fact, we are the only fanbase in Europe whose team cannot remotely perform or even score at home without our presence...

Thanks Nutty, quite the compliment!

Maybe I overplay the role of the fans in the performance of the team. Maybe you underplay it. Maybe the truth is between the two. Whichever way it is it's the only thing we can influence. Or could.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

1 hour ago, nutty nigel said:

Maybe I overplay the role of the fans in the performance of the team. Maybe you underplay it. Maybe the truth is between the two. Whichever way it is it's the only thing we can influence. Or could.

I reckon a packed and buzzing Carrow Road could've been the difference in the Quarter Final versus Man United. A game we competed in well for the duration, and a little boost in momentum from the crowd may have seen us over the line.

However, I don't think there was any such missed opportunity with our league games.  

Often, it is a bit of good play or persistence from the team which insights the fans into action; and not the reciprical.

Sure, we can all be buzzing before a game and for the first few minutes, but when it starts to turn drab and poor, it does not take long for the atmosphere to die off completely.

What it takes to change the tide is a couple of good bits of play; a shot on goal, a blocked cross for a corner, a jinking run etc - the crowd responds to this and momentum can build thereafter. To this end, I understand how the crowd can have a big impact. 

But the problem with this is that it firstly requires the players to perform a little to get things rolling. At what point in the Southampton game did this happen? A full crowd would've been feeding off scraps. In fact I'd argue it just as likely they got on the players' backs and made things worse!

Edited August 5, 2020 by Hank shoots Skyler

[nutty nigel 7,506]

9 hours ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

I reckon a packed and buzzing Carrow Road could've been the difference in the Quarter Final versus Man United. A game we competed in well for the duration, and a little boost in momentum from the crowd may have seen us over the line.

However, I don't think there was any such missed opportunity with our league games.  

Often, it is a bit of good play or persistence from the team which insights the fans into action; and not the reciprical.

Sure, we can all be buzzing before a game and for the first few minutes, but when it starts to turn drab and poor, it does not take long for the atmosphere to die off completely.

What it takes to change the tide is a couple of good bits of play; a shot on goal, a blocked cross for a corner, a jinking run etc - the crowd responds to this and momentum can build thereafter. To this end, I understand how the crowd can have a big impact. 

But the problem with this is that it firstly requires the players to perform a little to get things rolling. At what point in the Southampton game did this happen? A full crowd would've been feeding off scraps. In fact I'd argue it just as likely they got on the players' backs and made things worse!

Just how much worse do you think it could have got?

Could it have meant with supporters in the stadium we were the worst team in the world? Or even the worst in the universe?

I still think the supporters would have made a positive difference.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

6 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Just how much worse do you think it could have got?

Performance wise, It really couldn't have got much worse. But surely you've been to games with a poisonous atmosphere? Colchester 1-7, Burnley under Worthington, 2-5 loss to Liverpool under Hughton, Hughton's last home games etc. I think being able to avoid any atmosphere like that developing was a bit of a silver lining, whether that would've resulted in a worse score line or not is hard to say. But we were probably a Theoklitis in goal away from another 1-7..

6 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Could it have meant with supporters in the stadium we were the worst team in the world? Or even the worst in the universe?

Sorry - your open questions seem so bizarre to me.. I can't decipher what your point is? I never suggested we were the worst team in the world or anything like that? How many more football teams are included in the universe as opposed to simply just the world? What do you know? Have you been watching football on extra-terrestrial television.. 

I only indicated you must think we have the best fans in the world if that's the reason we're the only team in Europe whose form completed nosedived without fans?

[nutty nigel 7,506]

2 hours ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Performance wise, It really couldn't have got much worse. But surely you've been to games with a poisonous atmosphere? Colchester 1-7, Burnley under Worthington, 2-5 loss to Liverpool under Hughton, Hughton's last home games etc. I think being able to avoid any atmosphere like that developing was a bit of a silver lining, whether that would've resulted in a worse score line or not is hard to say. But we were probably a Theoklitis in goal away from another 1-7..

Sorry - your open questions seem so bizarre to me.. I can't decipher what your point is? I never suggested we were the worst team in the world or anything like that? How many more football teams are included in the universe as opposed to simply just the world? What do you know? Have you been watching football on extra-terrestrial television.. 

I only indicated you must think we have the best fans in the world if that's the reason we're the only team in Europe whose form completed nosedived without fans?

Sure I've been to games with a poisonous atmosphere, but it doesn't happen out of the blue. It's always an accumulation of unexpectedly poor results or bad form. That Southampton game was the next home game after beating Leicester and the first home game since we'd won at Spurs in the Cup. Carrow Road would have been rocking. I'll admit there's a few who sit on their hands and wait to be 'entertained' but most of us would have been really up for that game.

As is often the case on here we all probably dwell on different things. Perhaps you had already accepted relegation and saw the FA Cup as a bit if a triviality. But surely you have to admit the atmosphere in the stadium after that Leicester win was brilliant and the whole city was buzzing after we won that pen shoot out?

The point about worst team in the world was simply because the thread is about us being the worst in Europe and your suggestion that supporters could have made it worse.

Sort of a "it's worse than that he's dead Jim" situation.🙃

Edited August 6, 2020 by nutty nigel

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

35 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Sure I've been to games with a poisonous atmosphere, but it doesn't happen out of the blue. It's always an accumulation of unexpectedly poor results or bad form. That Southampton game was the next home game after beating Leicester and the first home game since we'd won at Spurs in the Cup. Carrow Road would have been rocking. I'll admit there's a few who sit on their hands and wait to be 'entertained' but most of us would have been really up for that game.

As is often the case on here we all probably dwell on different things. Perhaps you had already accepted relegation and saw the FA Cup as a bit if a triviality. But surely you have to admit the atmosphere in the stadium after that Leicester win was brilliant and the whole city was buzzing after we won that pen shoot out?

The point about worst team in the world was simply because the thread is about us being the worst in Europe and your suggestion that supporters could have made it worse.

Sort of a "it's worse than that he's dead Jim" situation.🙃

Worst form in Europe not worst team!

I don't disagree that Carrow Road would've been rocking to start with at all! It felt like we were building a little momentum in the lead up to lockdown for sure. Which sadly was lost.

But I do think the crowd would've turned somewhat (perhaps not the extent of the games I mentioned) if we rocked up after 4 months of no football and put in the same performance as we saw!

Now, whether the crowd would've lifted the players enough to compete is up for debate; but I certainly don't believe we have THAT much power - unfortunately. The fact is that Southampton outmatched us in every department, and I don't think clapping and cheering would make our players physically fitter for the game or tactically more aware?

The only reason I mentioned that Man United game was because we competed the whole way through and created good moments. Not because it was the cup game. I had not accepted relegation and did not see the FA cup that way. I thought that intense preparation during lockdown could give us an 'edge' over our opponents, and serve as a great chance for a miraculous turnaround - or at least to continue putting up a good fight.

Another game I believe you could maybe argue for the fans would be the narrow Everton defeat, but again - I saw very little from the team in that game to feel motivated by and think things may have fallen pretty flat after conceding in such a poor but familiar manner!

My point was simply that I think you need the game to be competitive in the first place, before you can reasonably argue the fans would make any difference. The fact we are the only club who experienced this capitulation would back up my view that it wasn't the absence of fans.

[nutty nigel 7,506]

9 hours ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Worst form in Europe not worst team!

I don't disagree that Carrow Road would've been rocking to start with at all! It felt like we were building a little momentum in the lead up to lockdown for sure. Which sadly was lost.

But I do think the crowd would've turned somewhat (perhaps not the extent of the games I mentioned) if we rocked up after 4 months of no football and put in the same performance as we saw!

Now, whether the crowd would've lifted the players enough to compete is up for debate; but I certainly don't believe we have THAT much power - unfortunately. The fact is that Southampton outmatched us in every department, and I don't think clapping and cheering would make our players physically fitter for the game or tactically more aware?

The only reason I mentioned that Man United game was because we competed the whole way through and created good moments. Not because it was the cup game. I had not accepted relegation and did not see the FA cup that way. I thought that intense preparation during lockdown could give us an 'edge' over our opponents, and serve as a great chance for a miraculous turnaround - or at least to continue putting up a good fight.

Another game I believe you could maybe argue for the fans would be the narrow Everton defeat, but again - I saw very little from the team in that game to feel motivated by and think things may have fallen pretty flat after conceding in such a poor but familiar manner!

My point was simply that I think you need the game to be competitive in the first place, before you can reasonably argue the fans would make any difference. The fact we are the only club who experienced this capitulation would back up my view that it wasn't the absence of fans.

Worst team in Europe is what the thread says.

I don't think we are going to agree about this. I still believe it could have been different if supporters had been in the stadium. Probably not enough to stay up but that was always a tough ask anyway. It was our home form that went down the pan.

Anyway, it looks like we will have to go again without the supporters. To start with anyway. And I'm not looking forward to it one bit. I'm sad to say the games just don't seem so important behind closed doors.

[Grando 260]

13 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Just how much worse do you think it could have got?

Could it have meant with supporters in the stadium we were the worst team in the world? Or even the worst in the universe?

I still think the supporters would have made a positive difference.

Technically after the lockdown we DID have the worst form of all the major leagues known in the Universe...

[nutty nigel 7,506]

56 minutes ago, Grando said:

Technically after the lockdown we DID have the worst form of all the major leagues known in the Universe...

Team.

And it could have been worse.

Allegedly.

 🙃

But it would have been better.

If supporters could have supported.

Also allegedly.

🙃