On a knife edge

[Bill 1,788]

8 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Having surrended our EPL position so readily the minimum expectation has to be top 6. Anything below that and we're not even meeting the board's risible "Top 26" aim, which after 1 season of winning the Champs and one season banking money from an EPL season will be unacceptable to many I'd wager. 

oh dear, out pop the not too bright

check this year's accounts in November when they come out

and I think you'll find that money was not banked, but used to clear debts, pay wages and pay bonuses from the promotion winning season

that we didn't indebt ourselves as Bournemouth did is to be commended. not whined about

[Well b back 3,190]

1 hour ago, TheGunnShow said:

I would say that financially we took a far more palatable medicine and refocused on youth development, and it's done us a power of good when we take everything into consideration over the last three years. We had a spell in the 1990s where we were pretty good at bringing youth along, and then it faded away somewhat when we went the tried-and-tested route in the Championship with the corresponding wage bill. The surprise Championship win, garnished with three regulars who were straight out of the youth team, and Cantwell who was almost a regular then, garnered a hell of a lot of goodwill as it came far faster than anyone could have expected. Not to mention, how many Championship-winning sides could say that about their teams nowadays??

I do think people are allowing the poor, indeed dreadful, run of form after the lockdown to overly influence their judgement. Sure, everyone's had the lockdown, but not everyone's had a lockdown and come back with half a defence missing after recovering from injury. For me, the expectations became a bit unrealistic after we went up, then the litany of defensive injuries really wrecked any chance we had.

So, apologies to the OP, but I cannot accept this notion that the whole project is on a knife-edge. I maintain this is a side-effect of unrealistic expectations. Although I'll reserve the right to be a shade more critical if we don't get another centre-half in (or indeed if Famewo does not show enough, I strongly suspect Farke's going to do to him what he did with Matthews in that he'll get the pre-season to show what he can do, and if it doesn't look quite like it's going to stick, get someone else in).

I'd also say, we look financially in a far better position than many in the Championship - the latest with Sheffield Wednesday should show why. Such prudence could well come back with quicker returns this season than we would expect.

Absolutely. Most if I remember back had the attitude what will be will be. Most of us were then castigated by that Lakey guy telling us we had the wrong ideas and we should believe we could finish 4th or we weren’t helping the club, building this ridiculous expectation.

I still believe however that Lockdown did for us and Watford. Watford I believe would have stayed up, Villa you couldn’t see where their next win was coming from. I still think we would have been relegated but we would have made a real fight of it. The last home game would have seen the players applauded for their efforts. We would all now be looking forward to kick off next week, but ten losses took that away. I just hope that negativity can go away with a good pre season.

[TheGunnShow 5,932]

44 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Absolutely. Most if I remember back had the attitude what will be will be. Most of us were then castigated by that Lakey guy telling us we had the wrong ideas and we should believe we could finish 4th or we weren’t helping the club, building this ridiculous expectation.

I still believe however that Lockdown did for us and Watford. Watford I believe would have stayed up, Villa you couldn’t see where their next win was coming from. I still think we would have been relegated but we would have made a real fight of it. The last home game would have seen the players applauded for their efforts. We would all now be looking forward to kick off next week, but ten losses took that away. I just hope that negativity can go away with a good pre season.

To be honest, I don't think we'll start the new season all that well as there's a lot of dented confidence to work through and a pile of new players to bed in, but we didn't start well when we won the Championship either. My suspicion is that, in all likelihood, Farke's going to amend / try to introduce a more varied plan B if we look at the likes of Płacheta and Sinani.

At the same time, there is a perfectly cogent counter-argument to what I just wrote in accepting that circumstances were so far out of the ordinary with the lockdown, the pandemic, and the defensive injury crisis that we just had the perfect storm as a result - and that this would be a confidence crisis that dissipates with a good result or two and most of the team healthy and fit at the same time. Obviously I hope for the latter, but I wouldn't be entirely surprised if we started with a bit of a hangover considering the shortened pre-season. And at that point I just hope most fans do remember that the last three years have generally been pretty damned positive in many ways without thinking it's time to toss the baby away with the bathwater.

[norfolkngood 1,086]

29 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

To be honest, I don't think we'll start the new season all that well as there's a lot of dented confidence to work through and a pile of new players to bed in, but we didn't start well when we won the Championship either. My suspicion is that, in all likelihood, Farke's going to amend / try to introduce a more varied plan B if we look at the likes of Płacheta and Sinani.

At the same time, there is a perfectly cogent counter-argument to what I just wrote in accepting that circumstances were so far out of the ordinary with the lockdown, the pandemic, and the defensive injury crisis that we just had the perfect storm as a result - and that this would be a confidence crisis that dissipates with a good result or two and most of the team healthy and fit at the same time. Obviously I hope for the latter, but I wouldn't be entirely surprised if we started with a bit of a hangover considering the shortened pre-season. And at that point I just hope most fans do remember that the last three years have generally been pretty damned positive in many ways without thinking it's time to toss the baby away with the bathwater.

Hard one to Call can Farke do it again and get us up or have we seen the best of him ? 

Every Manager has a time scale at a club 

Alex Neil did it , Lambert did it but could not do it anywhere else 

Farke got us up but lack or signings did not help him last season 

so on to this season and for me it is the most  Exciting for me to see if and which Farke we truly have 

is Farke a one season wonder or can he be a world class manager in the future 

Really do not know which way it is going to go 

[TheGunnShow 5,932]

6 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

Hard one to Call can Farke do it again and get us up or have we seen the best of him ? 

Every Manager has a time scale at a club 

Alex Neil did it , Lambert did it but could not do it anywhere else 

Farke got us up but lack or signings did not help him last season 

so on to this season and for me it is the most  Exciting for me to see if and which Farke we truly have 

is Farke a one season wonder or can he be a world class manager in the future 

Really do not know which way it is going to go 

I'd say teams have a timescale at a club instead of managers but understand what you're trying to say. Running a team is basically constant evolution.

I agree that it's going to be exciting, but for me the excitement is going to be in how the new batch of youngsters come along.

[Nuff Said 5,089]

4 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

your first 3 words were enough there.   

there's a much bigger picture and they deserve some slack.... some football fans are extremely fickle. 

Well, if I don’t think, then you don’t read properly. I’m not being fickle, I’m saying their record is not yet proven. A different thing to saying they’re no good.

[Hardhouse44 261]

18 hours ago, Bill said:

oh dear, you don't quite grasp what self-sufficient means

it is not survival by funding through player sales

it is about remaining competitive without having to run up debts through player purchases

that our developing of our own players at low cost will see them move on is a bonus.... not a necessity

Pie in the sky Bojjocks 

There is no such thing as you described. We are not self sufficient. We only have money due to tv rights and players sales and without parachute payments and premiership money there is only player sales left. Pies and Burgers and season ticket money don’t even scrape the surface of self sufficiency. We fail to get promoted again within 3 season and we will be asset stripped beyond anything you’ve ever seen before. We are not self sufficient. It doesn’t exist. 

[seanthecanary 168]

2 hours ago, Hardhouse44 said:

Pie in the sky Bojjocks 

There is no such thing as you described. We are not self sufficient. We only have money due to tv rights and players sales and without parachute payments and premiership money there is only player sales left. Pies and Burgers and season ticket money don’t even scrape the surface of self sufficiency. We fail to get promoted again within 3 season and we will be asset stripped beyond anything you’ve ever seen before. We are not self sufficient. It doesn’t exist. 

By your definition then, no club in Europe's top leagues are self sufficient. Just about every club is in danger of losing their current position whether by loss of TV revenue, rich owner finished playing with their toy or whatever. 

[Hardhouse44 261]

17 minutes ago, seanthecanary said:

By your definition then, no club in Europe's top leagues are self sufficient. Just about every club is in danger of losing their current position whether by loss of TV revenue, rich owner finished playing with their toy or whatever. 

Well yes. If the rich owner of any club pulled the plug they would collapse. I don’t see your point!

[seanthecanary 168]

6 hours ago, Hardhouse44 said:

Well yes. If the rich owner of any club pulled the plug they would collapse. I don’t see your point!

That's not all I said.  I said by your own definition there is no club that could be called self sufficient because of a reliance on TV money etc.  There is no club, even financial powerhouses like Man Utd or Barca that could carry on as they are in terms of spending without that revenue.  It's not a unique situation to City. 

Edited August 4, 2020 by seanthecanary

[TheGunnShow 5,932]

1 hour ago, seanthecanary said:

By your definition then, no club in Europe's top leagues are self sufficient. Just about every club is in danger of losing their current position whether by loss of TV revenue, rich owner finished playing with their toy or whatever. 

See Bolton Wanderers and Wigan Athletic for details when Eddie Davies and Dave Whelan left respectively.

[Hardhouse44 261]

17 hours ago, seanthecanary said:

That's not all I said.  I said by your own definition there is no club that could be called self sufficient because of a reliance on TV money etc.  There is no club, even financial powerhouses like Man Utd or Barca that could carry on as they are in terms of spending without that revenue.  It's not a unique situation to City. 

Well Barca are different in respect that in Spain the TV more Isn’t a fair split. They get load more for being a big draw and negotiate their own deals. Or at least that’s how it used to be. Surely the fact that Man Utd stay in the premiership every season proves my point. They are as good as guaranteed to TV money every year. And they have owners with money which surely is my point. Whether any club is self sufficient or not doesn’t really matter to me. What matters is we can’t exist at any level without TV money from the premiership or parachute payments and the sale of assets would be the only way if they are not available. 

[Rock The Boat 1,325]

On 03/08/2020 at 17:41, Bill said:

oh dear, you don't quite grasp what self-sufficient means

it is not survival by funding through player sales

it is about remaining competitive without having to run up debts through player purchases

that our developing of our own players at low cost will see them move on is a bonus.... not a necessity

Nope. He has a far better idea of self sufficiency than you. We have always lived through selling off prime assets (players) to fund expenditure, it's not a bonus it has always been a necessity.