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The Raptor

Chris Martin?

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Excellent post Raptor  - I fully agree. After leaving us, Martin has developed into a high performer at Championship level and is consistent with scoring goals and with his general play. His goals are not "tap ins", many are from long range, he is also a consistent penalty taker & free kicker taker (similar to Vrancic). If anyone was to watch Martin's 63 goals for Derby on you tube they would  realise how good a player he is.

Yes he's slow, not european, doesn't have the movement of Pukki so would not fit in to the current structure. But if we have Hernandez, Vrancic, Buendia & Cantwell in our midfield, they will create heaps for him to do his thing. But Webber is an idiot so no chance seeing Chris Martin here or in fact any of the above midfielders I mentioned here next season.

 

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27 minutes ago, Six Pack said:

Excellent post Raptor  - I fully agree. After leaving us, Martin has developed into a high performer at Championship level and is consistent with scoring goals and with his general play. His goals are not "tap ins", many are from long range, he is also a consistent penalty taker & free kicker taker (similar to Vrancic). If anyone was to watch Martin's 63 goals for Derby on you tube they would  realise how good a player he is.

Yes he's slow, not european, doesn't have the movement of Pukki so would not fit in to the current structure. But if we have Hernandez, Vrancic, Buendia & Cantwell in our midfield, they will create heaps for him to do his thing. But Webber is an idiot so no chance seeing Chris Martin here or in fact any of the above midfielders I mentioned here next season.

 

Agreed. Webber would be a right idiot for not signing a 31 year old, overweight striker with 15 goals in his last 100 apps on a long contract.

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17 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Agreed. Webber would be a right idiot for not signing a 31 year old, overweight striker with 15 goals in his last 100 apps on a long contract.

Derby have not got the attack we have. Don't hold his age and physical appearance against him - it's got nothing to do with putting the ball in the net ! Having said that he's not even overweight.

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I'm not saying Martin should take Pukki's place - we need a capable backup. When I say "attack" I meant midfield attacking players that feed the striker. Derby obviously weren't as good in that department. Pukki is far superior in his movement as striker. Also without wanting this to sound the wrong way - the season Pukki got 29 in the league, to be prefectly honest he should have got 40 easy - but even he's human and can miss.

 

Chris Martin is a more than capable backup to Pukki.

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Don’t forget that our back up strikers tend to come on around the 85th minute so He could probably have a pie and a pint and still do a job!

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People please - go to you tube and watch Chris Martin's 63 goals for Derby.

This is not a John Hartson here, we're talking about a seriously good footballer !

 

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1 hour ago, Six Pack said:

People please - go to you tube and watch Chris Martin's 63 goals for Derby.

This is not a John Hartson here, we're talking about a seriously good footballer !

 

Hartson was a far better forward. 

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We won't sign him, but I wouldn't mind seeing him here for a year as a very different option off the bench. He'd be a good signing for the last twenty minutes of a game when we wanted some more physical presence up front to hold up the ball. I think our lack of different attacking options in those situations has been a real negative for us. At least with Martin coming on defenders would have to be on their toes. But anyway.

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16 minutes ago, Grando said:

We won't sign him, but I wouldn't mind seeing him here for a year as a very different option off the bench. He'd be a good signing for the last twenty minutes of a game when we wanted some more physical presence up front to hold up the ball. I think our lack of different attacking options in those situations has been a real negative for us. At least with Martin coming on defenders would have to be on their toes. But anyway.

I don't disagree with the idea of a physical striker but why a 31 year old Chris Martin who couldn't agree a deal with Derby? I doubt he'll sign anywhere for 1 year - at his age he will want a 2 or 3 year deal to see him through.

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9 hours ago, hogesar said:

I don't disagree with the idea of a physical striker but why a 31 year old Chris Martin who couldn't agree a deal with Derby? I doubt he'll sign anywhere for 1 year - at his age he will want a 2 or 3 year deal to see him through.

Fair enough! I’d rather a different, more physical striker than Martin as an option for us too. But for me he’d be better than nothing in the hugely unlikely event that we went for him.

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10 hours ago, hogesar said:

I don't disagree with the idea of a physical striker but why a 31 year old Chris Martin who couldn't agree a deal with Derby? I doubt he'll sign anywhere for 1 year - at his age he will want a 2 or 3 year deal to see him through.

But also why not? Homegrown, experienced, wouldn't expect to be starting week in week out and offers us something different. 

Considering the continuing hard-on many have on here for J*rdan R*odes I don't think Martin is an outlandish suggestion.

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14 minutes ago, king canary said:

But also why not? Homegrown, experienced, wouldn't expect to be starting week in week out and offers us something different. 

Considering the continuing hard-on many have on here for J*rdan R*odes I don't think Martin is an outlandish suggestion.

Exactly why I said - because he's going to want a 2, maybe 3 year deal at an age where he's going to be less and less useful to a team like us, especially if we have ambitions to be promoted.

Equally, considering you've been against the Rhodes signing I don't get why you'd be for this one!

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4 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Exactly why I said - because he's going to want a 2, maybe 3 year deal at an age where he's going to be less and less useful to a team like us, especially if we have ambitions to be promoted.

Equally, considering you've been against the Rhodes signing I don't get why you'd be for this one!

Because my view is Martin offers more in his general game than Rhodes. For example Martin has more assists this season than Rhodes has in the last 5 seasons combined. Martin has averaged 0.9 key passes a game this season, Rhodes 0.3. Martin completed 70% of his passes, Rhodes completed 58%.

There is a reason nobody has used Rhodes as a regular starting option these last few years- he basically offers very little as the focal point of your attack if he isn't scoring. If we signed Rhodes and Pukki got injured I wouldn't be very comfortable with the idea of him leading the line for 3 months- Martin I would be more so.

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Posted (edited)

Some serious under-ambition going on with this thread.    Martin and Rhodes are not reasonable or sensible options with our project.    There are significant reasons for this....

Not quick enough, not mobile enough, don’t trouble defences enough, don’t score enough, don’t create enough, don’t hold the ball up enough, Adam Idah, Teemu Pukki, our ambition to get promoted, not good enough..... we can scout and / or afford much better 3rd choice strikers.   
 

Project needs to move forward not backwards!   

 

Edited by ged in the onion bag

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2 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Some serious under-ambition going on with this thread.    Martin and Rhodes are not reasonable or sensible options with our project.    There are significant reasons for this....

Not quick enough, not mobile enough, don’t trouble defences enough, don’t score enough, don’t create enough, don’t hold the ball up enough, Adam Idah, Teemu Pukki, our ambition to get promoted, not good enough..... we can scout and / or afford much better 3rd choice strikers.   
 

Project needs to move forward not backwards!   

 

Out of interest how many Championship goals to you expect someone we're signing to be 3rd choice to have scored last season?

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Just now, king canary said:

Out of interest how many Championship goals to you expect someone we're signing to be 3rd choice to have scored last season?

It might be 30, it could be 5!    It’s about what they can bring to the party!   Might be someone who brings out the best in others, e.g good touches around the box to create chances, Can receive it and keep moves flowing, runs into channels, creates space for others etc... essentially someone who can compete with Idah and Pukki for the shirt on a match day not someone who rocks up for some cash, content to sit on his backside for 70 minutes.    I would suggest your ambition is limited if you are simply looking for a ‘3rd’ choice striker.   

...and essentially someone who can do the business consistently if Pukki and Idah get injured.    Neither of Martin or Rhodes can offer that for the reasons stated in my last post!     

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44 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

It might be 30, it could be 5!    It’s about what they can bring to the party!   Might be someone who brings out the best in others, e.g good touches around the box to create chances, Can receive it and keep moves flowing, runs into channels, creates space for others etc... essentially someone who can compete with Idah and Pukki for the shirt on a match day not someone who rocks up for some cash, content to sit on his backside for 70 minutes.    I would suggest your ambition is limited if you are simply looking for a ‘3rd’ choice striker.   

...and essentially someone who can do the business consistently if Pukki and Idah get injured.    Neither of Martin or Rhodes can offer that for the reasons stated in my last post!     

Fair but from what I've seen of Martin in recent years and what Derby fans say of him, he's actually pretty good around the box, creates chances and brings others into play.

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25 minutes ago, king canary said:

Fair but from what I've seen of Martin in recent years and what Derby fans say of him, he's actually pretty good around the box, creates chances and brings others into play.

I don't doubt that but where did Derby end up this season?     He's never been a prolific player at this level, has often struggled to find a starting spot and yes, whilst he is a good player, he's getting on in age thus slower and he's not going to push for a place ahead of Pukki or Idah.    Even Drmic will want some action I expect if we can't offload.   Would like to think the club have their sights on better options that this thread is suggesting.   

Also don't dispute that some experience wouldn't go amiss in the set up but would prefer someone who can deliver high levels of performance if we need them too week in week out and to push Pukki and Idah.    

My turn for the question.    Do you think we should look to bring in an unambitious 'third' striker or someone who thinks he can be No. 1 / wants to fight for the role?    

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7 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

I don't doubt that but where did Derby end up this season?     He's never been a prolific player at this level, has often struggled to find a starting spot and yes, whilst he is a good player, he's getting on in age thus slower and he's not going to push for a place ahead of Pukki or Idah.    Even Drmic will want some action I expect if we can't offload.   Would like to think the club have their sights on better options that this thread is suggesting.   

Also don't dispute that some experience wouldn't go amiss in the set up but would prefer someone who can deliver high levels of performance if we need them too week in week out and to push Pukki and Idah.    

My turn for the question.    Do you think we should look to bring in an unambitious 'third' striker or someone who thinks he can be No. 1 / wants to fight for the role?    

Ideally option 2 I think reality suggests we made need someone in the mold of option 1, especially if we really rate Idah. That obviously all changes if Pukki leaves though.

When you look at the fees Championship strikers go for these days I think someone like Martin on a free is likely more realistic than us being in for players like Grant from Huddersfield or Watkins from Brentford.

I don't really see your point about where Derby ended up though- 10th isn't a bad position and if we're only looking at players from teams in the top 6 we'll really struggle.

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7 minutes ago, Felixfan said:

Ipswich fans interested. Are we really shopping in the same market?

I'm interested in us signing Jadon Sancho. Will that put Man United off?

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7 minutes ago, Felixfan said:

Ipswich fans interested. Are we really shopping in the same market?

To be fair, Ipswich fans were also wanting Eddie Howe to go manage them now. You can't really compare when dealing with the levels of delusion they seem to at times.

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13 minutes ago, Felixfan said:

Ipswich fans interested. Are we really shopping in the same market?

Even if they were interested, he'd be their star striker, while he'd likely be 3rd choice here.

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27 minutes ago, hogesar said:

To be fair, Ipswich fans were also wanting Eddie Howe to go manage them now. You can't really compare when dealing with the levels of delusion they seem to at times.

Seriously? Deluded scarcely covers it.

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Lots of arguments against. Mainly his style of play and lack of pace. But he has performed at this level in the past. He is probably not the answer. But we do need an experienced striker at championship level as back up if nothing else.

 

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