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KiwiScot

Experienced Players

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x5 young players through the door I make it, but will we sign any experienced players? I suppose if the "quality" that Webber talks about is there it doesn't matter, but experience does count.

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You have a point that xperience is quite vital a lot of the time.

However, we got promoted 2 seasons ago with a team generally less experienced than our current one.

Maybe the idea is to bring in new, fresh 'hungry for it' blood and keep hold of a key experienced spine to the team in the meantime (Krul, Hanley, maybe Klose? Tettey, Pukki possibly), creating a nice balance between youth and experience. But then, who knows?

As is say, it worked beautifully before. Seems a smart move if thats what we are going for.

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With our policy of blooding youngsters.... experience and leadership on the park are crucial.    That has never been more evident than the last 10 games.  

It is vital we bring that into the set up.   But they have to have enough quality to be on the park regularly, not just an influence in the dressing room like Jordan Rhodes was.     Would argue we don't have a key experienced spine at the minute except for Krul who really has excelled.    Klose showed no signs of leadership (admittedly he wouldn't have played without the injuries) and Tettey (as well as he has done) needs to be fazed out asap as he isn't up to EPL level.   

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There's a fine line between experience and deadwood but more importantly we"ll need hungry players with something to prove.

This season was a write off as we simply weren't competitive. I'm just hoping we don't turn next season into a transition development season by having a high proportion of too young players. 

Hopefully most of the squad will remain intact and we've a couple of useful additions already, so we should be ready for a promotion push.

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Id like to see maybe one 'established' player come in, but it will cost an arm and a leg to do that for anyone who is actually better that what we've got. In terms of experience and senior players you could say in Krul, Hanley, Tetty, McGovern and to an extent Pukki and Zimmerman we have that. Wouldn't mind seeing Rhodes come in on a free, could see him giving Pukki a lift and some much needed experience and advice for Drmic and Idah.

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On the other hand, what is experienced player?

Is he a player that has played 10 years in mid level leagues? Or maybe someone who has played 10 years in top leagues? Should he be one who has been playing lots of minutes all the time or someone who has just experience in many different situations during seasons even from bench? Or is it just about age?

Just wondering when our currently lot playing youngsters are becoming experienced on this level. For example Emi has now played in big role for one year in Premier, Champs and Spanish 3rd tier. Before that couple of years in smaller role in Spanish 3rd tier. That is 6 years as professional in Europe.

Not saying that they should yet be considered experienced, but by this way I'd expect them to gain lots of experience. Having currently couple of more experienced guys (as mentioned before)  could be enough to help mentoring them through hard times and maybe in year or two we have all the experience we need in our current playerbase.

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Surely there must be an experienced older CB out of contract who could do a job to cover for the inevitable injury to Klose.  Look at relegated clubs e.g. Hull or at better Div 1 teams.  Certainly English would be preferable.

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Norwich have a dilemma, follow the same method as two seasons ago and hope it works again or recruit experienced players to play alongside the likes of Godfrey and Cantwell. Having already brought in five young players signals the former is likely but next season will not be easy with the standard no worse than the season just gone.  

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To me an ideal team is a blend of youth and experience, we have plenty of youth which has great potential. We have some decent established players but need two or three   real leaders in midfield and defense and attack who are tried and tested at this level  they would power all the rest forward oh for a Iwain Roberts or Malkey McKay to fit into our current squad

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To be honest, the time to bring in experience if we were going to do it was when we went up to the prem. in the championship, we’ve got the quality - and the lads we’re bringing in are 22/23 not 18/19 - they’ve played plenty of football albeit abroad in supposedly weaker leagues. I don’t see much point in bringing in 28 year olds who can do a job in the championship but don’t help us if we go up. 

Stick with the youth and let them develop and then if we go back up look at bringing in one or two with a bit of prem quality and experience.

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To add, on the leadership front, our first xi is likely to have Krul, one of Zimmermann, Klose or Hanley, at least one of Tettey, Vranic  & McLean, and Pukki all playing fairly regularly. That’s a few very experienced players through the spine most of whom lead in one way or another as well (albeit not necessarily in a screaming and shouting Roy Keane style - which I’m not sure would work in this team anyway).

And on the age front, in addition to those above all over 27, you’ve got Stiepermann who’s 29, Trybull is 27, Rupp’s 29, Hernandez 27, Drmic and Leitner if they stay both 27 as well.  

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Sometimes experience is an excuse for old or over the top. But I do agree with the OP and think that a canny midfield player is maybe the top priority. A David Williams, Mickey Phelan, Daryl Russell, all underrated but just what was needed in the team at the time.

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Aggy said:

To add, on the leadership front, our first xi is likely to have Krul, one of Zimmermann, Klose or Hanley, at least one of Tettey, Vranic  & McLean, and Pukki all playing fairly regularly. That’s a few very experienced players through the spine most of whom lead in one way or another as well (albeit not necessarily in a screaming and shouting Roy Keane style - which I’m not sure would work in this team anyway).

And on the age front, in addition to those above all over 27, you’ve got Stiepermann who’s 29, Trybull is 27, Rupp’s 29, Hernandez 27, Drmic and Leitner if they stay both 27 as well.  

There’s an absolute chasm between experience and age in terms of what we need.    None of the players you list have much experience at EPL level (Even Hanley and Klose) and only Krul, Tettey, Hanley and Zimmermann offer anything in a leadership capacity.   Klose certainly didn’t show that in the last few games!    Only Krul has lead by example this season!  
 

To help the younger players learn quickly, grow in confidence and to guide them we do need some experienced heads who have been there and done it.   There is no case in that regard for any current player, not even Tettey.    Cahill from Chelsea would have been ideal in that regard last season and one or two similar options are needed.  
 

And of course I am not advocating Jordan Rhodes - can’t believe people keep suggesting we bring him in.   If he’s good in the dressing room, give him a coaching role.   

Edited by ged in the onion bag

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

There’s an absolute chasm between experience and age in terms of what we need.    None of the players you list have much experience at EPL level (Even Hanley and Klose) and only Krul, Tettey, Hanley and Zimmermann offer anything in a leadership capacity.   Klose certainly didn’t show that in the last few games!    Only Krul has lead by example this season!  
 

To help the younger players learn quickly, grow in confidence and to guide them we do need some experienced heads who have been there and done it.   There is no case in that regard for any current player, not even Tettey.    Cahill from Chelsea would have been ideal in that regard last season and one or two similar options are needed.  
 

And of course I am not advocating Jordan Rhodes - can’t believe people keep suggesting we bring him in.   If he’s good in the dressing room, give him a coaching role.   

We’re not in the EPL next season though. At championship level all of those have been there and done it - even Trybull (probably the weakest of our midfielders even in the championship) looked alright at championship level. The same midfield won us the league remember, and we’ve added a few young hungry players in attacking midfield already.

Palace will be paying Cahill a lot more than we could have done - i don’t see any benefit in paying those sorts of wages for a 34 year old in the championship. (Edit: although agree - I wouldn’t have minded signing him at the start of last season.)

If we bring in a prem-standard midfielder now, they’ll either be cheap and probably past it (and likely not that much use if we ever go up again) or they’ll be far too expensive (and still possibly past it and not much use if we ever go up again). I’d rather we go with our current midfield which is already proven at championship level (plus the three or four young hungry lads we’ve already signed) and then spend a bit more on actual quality experienced prem player next time we get promoted.

Edited by Aggy

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1 hour ago, Aggy said:

We’re not in the EPL next season though. At championship level all of those have been there and done it - even Trybull (probably the weakest of our midfielders even in the championship) looked alright at championship level. The same midfield won us the league remember, and we’ve added a few young hungry players in attacking midfield already.

Palace will be paying Cahill a lot more than we could have done - i don’t see any benefit in paying those sorts of wages for a 34 year old in the championship. (Edit: although agree - I wouldn’t have minded signing him at the start of last season.)

If we bring in a prem-standard midfielder now, they’ll either be cheap and probably past it (and likely not that much use if we ever go up again) or they’ll be far too expensive (and still possibly past it and not much use if we ever go up again). I’d rather we go with our current midfield which is already proven at championship level (plus the three or four young hungry lads we’ve already signed) and then spend a bit more on actual quality experienced prem player next time we get promoted.

The point though is we are signing and giving opportunity to these youngsters but they need the level of experience to help them but this season has shown what we have hasn’t helped the youngsters.    My points are valid in that regard.

As for the fact we are in the EFL, can guarantee, if we adopt your approach and thoughts that those from our championship winning side will get us up again, firstly they won’t, there’s a different dynamic now and second, if they did come good again we will be back in the same position again come the end not having an EPL quality team and not having blooded those that can step up.    Am afraid for this to work, For definite Trybull, Stiepermann, Leitner, and Drmic and maybe even Rupp and Vrancic have to move on.  
 

In terms of lessons learned the investment does have to go into experience in order to help the younger ones.    But we have to be looking to have EPL quality players even though we are in the EFL.    Otherwise, where is the progression?   

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I believe we will sign some players of this ilk, but I think it is currently a case of transfer dominoes- very little business has been done yet.

Our biggest, baddest signings will come as the cogs in the greater transfer machine start turning.

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Most of our squad have tasted the kind of footballing experiences that many other players at other clubs  will not or have not tasted in their entire football career. A season of being Champions and the absolute joy and togetherness that comes from that and a season of being rock bottom and relegated and the  absolute misery and togetherness that comes from that also.

Age is not related to our guys, its a team effort. Some will leave, some have already arrived, but its the ethos of any individual club and what happens season after season out there on the pitch that affects experience.

Being out for year, then being told you're  straight into the team as theres no other choice, needing to play a string of games in a very short time frame against the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City and others when you're clearly not ready for it..that is one heck of an experience..you guys who bash Timm...do so if you wish..but it would be extremely hard to replace such a guy who has such a big amount of different experiences in his time at the club.

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