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Slaven Bilic says he wont replicate our approach to recruitment, claiming we 'haven't even tried anything'

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4 minutes ago, Ian said:

Exactly, it's just lazy thinking.

Don't get me wrong, I am as disappointed with how this season panned out as anyone. But we are where we are, had we spent 40/50 million we may be in the same place but with a vastly greater set of problems given where we are as a club. It's very easy to criticise and correlate directly in hindsight, but could you imagine the reaction on here had we bought a few Naismith's, but were still fcked by injuries and VAR and went down anyway?

Or do people genuinely believe that spending an additional 30/40/50/60 million would really have solved all the problems with our squad? I just don't see that spending that much on 2/3 players would have made much of a difference overall.

As someone who thinks we should have spent more here are my thought...

1) I think our chances would have been increased with a couple of additions around the £15m mark. Obviously I can't prove that though so it is all guess work.

2) I have enough faith in Webber that I think he would have signed players that wouldn't cripple us financially- ie those in the Leroy Fer mold of players we can move on even if we went down. I don't see him lumbering us with Naismith/Jarvis types who we can't move for love nor money. I also think he would have signed players that would have continued to be assets in the Championship next season. 

3) I think (and others may think this is too high a risk) we could have spent these sorts of sums with confidence that even if we went down that we had players like Aarons, Godfrey and Buendia who could be sold for big fees. As it currently stands we'll go down having banked the Premier League money and also probably bring in record fees for a couple of our players. Would having spent £30m really have threatened the future that much?

It is all obviously hypothetical but there we are.

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What Bilic said is that he doesn't want to follow Villa's plan either but wants to follow Sheffield Utd's example. 

To say that we didn't try anything is incorrect, we have placed a priority on developing young players. 

We could have replaced our young defenders with more reliable and experienced players. We could have done this reasonably cheaply. 

This would probably work better in the short term but not in the long term, look how relegation has affected some clubs. 

It's difficult and perhaps unfair on us to accept at the moment but people outside the club can't understand the long term implications and we can't abandon the plan because of this. 

WBA have done well to get promoted, as have Leeds but not as well as we did last season. The shouldn't be so arrogant now, let's see what happens. 

 

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7 minutes ago, king canary said:

As someone who thinks we should have spent more here are my thought...

1) I think our chances would have been increased with a couple of additions around the £15m mark. Obviously I can't prove that though so it is all guess work.

2) I have enough faith in Webber that I think he would have signed players that wouldn't cripple us financially- ie those in the Leroy Fer mold of players we can move on even if we went down. I don't see him lumbering us with Naismith/Jarvis types who we can't move for love nor money. I also think he would have signed players that would have continued to be assets in the Championship next season. 

3) I think (and others may think this is too high a risk) we could have spent these sorts of sums with confidence that even if we went down that we had players like Aarons, Godfrey and Buendia who could be sold for big fees. As it currently stands we'll go down having banked the Premier League money and also probably bring in record fees for a couple of our players. Would having spent £30m really have threatened the future that much?

It is all obviously hypothetical but there we are.

I don't necessarily disagree with you in principle. I am more sceptical of what we would have got for the £15m mark, but I do understand that spending that sort of money may have slightly improved our chances of competing this season.

But that said, if you have faith in Webber, and agree he is the man responsible for our transfer strategy, do you not think it more likely that he actually did look into signing players with that sort of price tag in place? I can't see him being the sort of person who would just say "freebies and loans only this season lads" without having already looked into other options and weighed up whether the squad improvement was worth the financial risk.

I suppose what I have difficulty with is fans and pundits who worshipped Webber and Farke like the second coming of Christ last season, only to act as if they are total idiots this season. I don't think there's any question they are trying to build something for the longer term (as per our demonstrable transfer strategy), so for my money, I think the coming season is probably the most important one in terms of validating their overall strategy and spending over the past couple of years.

 

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Bilic's words will have to be backed up by his owners.

His squad is aging. Apart from Pereira and the keeper I think the youngest is 27 and I cannot see Barry, Livermore and Brunt doing much in the EPL which has shown you either have a dogmatic attitude and style like Burnley or copy the rest who see pace, power and physical attributes as the main way to go.

Remember this is an owner who sacked Darren Moore when they were fourth in the table.

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It’s easy to keep the dumplings happy. No wonder we are an absolute laughing stock so far as the rest of the country is concerned. This season has been an unmitigated embarrassment for Norfolk football. The only bright spot has been Kings Lynn’s promotion to the National League.

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It’s easy to keep the dumplings happy. No wonder we are an absolute laughing stock so far as the rest of the country is concerned. This season has been an unmitigated embarrassment for Norfolk football. The only bright spot has been Kings Lynn’s promotion to the National League.

Are you too afraid to go out now with the embarrassment? Will people point at you?
 
Boy student getting bullied in school

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2 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

And the fact is that the overwhelming majority backed what the club was doing.  To now whinge and bleat about it is pretty nauseating revisionism.

Really?  I can remember many many utterly dismayed by our summer recruitment at the time 🤷‍♂️

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11 minutes ago, Crafty Canary said:

It’s easy to keep the dumplings happy. No wonder we are an absolute laughing stock so far as the rest of the country is concerned. This season has been an unmitigated embarrassment for Norfolk football. The only bright spot has been Kings Lynn’s promotion to the National League.

Great post, and one that reinforces my disdain for the average supporter who believes we are a "laughing stock".

On that point, did you actually have an argument relevant to this thread, or are you just going to continue with your endless list of ad-hominems? You are clearly so vastly superior to other posters on this thread I am surprised you're not in the position of running a professional football club yourself.

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3 minutes ago, Ian said:

Great post, and one that reinforces my disdain for the average supporter who believes we are a "laughing stock".

On that point, did you actually have an argument relevant to this thread, or are you just going to continue with your endless list of ad-hominems? You are clearly so vastly superior to other posters on this thread I am surprised you're not in the position of running a professional football club yourself.

AKA “I must have missed your tenure as England manager”.

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20 minutes ago, Ian said:

I don't necessarily disagree with you in principle. I am more sceptical of what we would have got for the £15m mark, but I do understand that spending that sort of money may have slightly improved our chances of competing this season.

But that said, if you have faith in Webber, and agree he is the man responsible for our transfer strategy, do you not think it more likely that he actually did look into signing players with that sort of price tag in place? I can't see him being the sort of person who would just say "freebies and loans only this season lads" without having already looked into other options and weighed up whether the squad improvement was worth the financial risk.

I suppose what I have difficulty with is fans and pundits who worshipped Webber and Farke like the second coming of Christ last season, only to act as if they are total idiots this season. I don't think there's any question they are trying to build something for the longer term (as per our demonstrable transfer strategy), so for my money, I think the coming season is probably the most important one in terms of validating their overall strategy and spending over the past couple of years.

 

Your second paragraph is the million $ question that we'll never know. On the one hand we had the rumours about Claude-Maurice suggesting we bid £12-15m for hi suggesting we did have that budget but couldn't find the right player. On the other hand we have Webber quoted as saying we couldn't compete with Sheffield United when they bid £7m for Callum Robinson. 

I would also apply what you're saying regarding Webber and Farke in theo ther direction too- I've seen people who think Webber can walk on water yet insist we couldn't risk spending any money because of the risk of another 'Naismith situation.' Surely if you think Webber is all that then you trust him to not spend money on aging players on large contracts?

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13 minutes ago, king canary said:

Your second paragraph is the million $ question that we'll never know. On the one hand we had the rumours about Claude-Maurice suggesting we bid £12-15m for hi suggesting we did have that budget but couldn't find the right player. On the other hand we have Webber quoted as saying we couldn't compete with Sheffield United when they bid £7m for Callum Robinson. 

I would also apply what you're saying regarding Webber and Farke in theo ther direction too- I've seen people who think Webber can walk on water yet insist we couldn't risk spending any money because of the risk of another 'Naismith situation.' Surely if you think Webber is all that then you trust him to not spend money on aging players on large contracts?

Callum Robinson 9 appearances for SU, 1 goal and 1 assist. :Loaned out to West Brom.

QED me thinks.

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Hindsight is a wonderful thing. We were champions and i think we thought a lot of our players would have performed much better at the higher level hence virtually everyone getting extended contracts. I agree we could have made the odd token signing but with the money that we had available would that have made a great deal of difference i suspect not. We did not plan for having so many injuries in particular in defense. We were always going to be one of the probables to come down but most of us thought this squad would have performed much better than they did. Most of the youngsters  added to their reputation and value with the exception of Bundia who was a a big and surprising disappointment, such a star for us in the championship, but most of the more established players with the exception of Krul and Pukki for the first half of the season were well off the pace. First third of the season there were grounds for optimism, then we got worked out, key players got injured, we had no good fortune at all eh the disallowed goal v Tottenham and the confidence started to go. We were still in with a chance up until lockdown dont forget we beat Leicester and Bournmouth. Goodness knows what happened at lockdown maybe one day the story will out. We have been somewhat haunted by past relegation's with players on high wages not performing and noone wants at  least we have not got that. The first season Burnley came up they were very similar to what we spent and performed. They came back soon after stronger and have not looked back so so grounds for optimism. No one can pretend that post lock down has been other than a shattering disappointment that has left us feeling so bad, but we have as said before a decent championship squad, some money in the bank some very sellable assets if we choose to do so, exciting youngsters waiting for their chance and probably the weakest championship on paper for some years

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15 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

AKA “I must have missed your tenure as England manager”.

Not really, I'm suggesting that "Crafty" should put up a valid argument rather than slagging fellow supporters off, and that if he chooses to do so in such a condescending manner he should probably have some credentials.

This is probably the opposite of what the delightful Roeder had in mind.

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5 minutes ago, Trevor Hockey's Beard said:

Callum Robinson 9 appearances for SU, 1 goal and 1 assist. :Loaned out to West Brom.

QED me thinks.

Not the point.

The point is that Webber said we couldn't compete for a player we wanted at the £7m mark.

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18 minutes ago, king canary said:

Your second paragraph is the million $ question that we'll never know. On the one hand we had the rumours about Claude-Maurice suggesting we bid £12-15m for hi suggesting we did have that budget but couldn't find the right player. On the other hand we have Webber quoted as saying we couldn't compete with Sheffield United when they bid £7m for Callum Robinson. 

I would also apply what you're saying regarding Webber and Farke in theo ther direction too- I've seen people who think Webber can walk on water yet insist we couldn't risk spending any money because of the risk of another 'Naismith situation.' Surely if you think Webber is all that then you trust him to not spend money on aging players on large contracts?

I think Webber and Farke are are a decent team, and that's why I believe we probably just weren't able to attract those sorts of players at that price point and salary. I know the media love to simplify everything in terms of transfer fees = quality, but we know the importance of recruiting the right sort of player too.

Whilst I certainly believe Farke/Webber will have made mistakes in hindsight with certain transfers, I don't believe that between them they would have just decided to "go with what we've got" without making sure there weren't alternatives.

I think we are pretty much on the same page with this anyway?

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3 minutes ago, king canary said:

Not the point.

The point is that Webber said we couldn't compete for a player we wanted at the £7m mark.

Couldn't, or wouldn't? I suspect it is more that they not think that 7 mil was good value for that player and weren't prepared to take the risk.

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Just now, Ian said:

Couldn't, or wouldn't? I suspect it is more that they not think that 7 mil was good value for that player and weren't prepared to take the risk.

Quote is here, specifically said couldn't.

Screenshot_20200727-124450_The Athletic.jpg

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Just now, king canary said:

Quote is here, specifically said couldn't.

Screenshot_20200727-124450_The Athletic.jpg

Is that 7 million a direct quote though? I always thought he was talking about salary rather than directly about fees. It's one thing to be able to afford the transfer fees, and other to be able to match the salary the other club was offering.

If Webber was purely talking about transfer fees I would say he's being pretty disingenuous, as there's no doubt the club could afford this if it really wanted. That said, I always think he plays the media a little bit anyway to make his job look just a little bit harder...

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3 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

Six new players is “not trying anything”? Ok.

Only one - Sam - was any good. Three loans went back long before the end of the season.

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28 minutes ago, Ian said:

Not really, I'm suggesting that "Crafty" should put up a valid argument rather than slagging fellow supporters off, and that if he chooses to do so in such a condescending manner he should probably have some credentials.

This is probably the opposite of what the delightful Roeder had in mind.

Sorry, I wasn’t clear in my haste to use what was probably one of the most memorable things about Roeder’s time here (that, and the “new heroes” comment). I completely agree with you but I have (again) run out of reactions.

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15 minutes ago, Hadenuff said:

Only one - Sam - was any good. Three loans went back long before the end of the season.

So if the loans had been good we would have been trying, but because they weren’t, we weren’t (trying)? 

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Next year three clubs that have spent a lot of money will go down. Only eight clubs can feel confident of staying in the Premier League, the rest will be desperately hoping they aren't one of the three.

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3 hours ago, king canary said:

 

So we have to accept we're now the poster child for not spending.

Fully agree.

and yet that’s ok with me.

Its in his interest to make this comment though - the best route for him becoming a manager at the top level is to have short term success with WBA and get on bigger teams radar. Simply put more money spend increases chance of success (Apologies for stating the obvious with this) For sure there’s diminishing returns and massive risk associated with it but if he’s going to make a name for himself the more spent the better. If West Brom do what we do and barely spend anything and find themselves relegated next season what good is that to him if they say they are investing it in youth or whatever ? It will just be a relegation to his name and he may even find himself out of a job.

I can just about accept our relegation on the basis that it puts us in a strong position to reinvest for an assault on the championship and hopefully return to the premier league far stronger than we were at the beginning of this season - and hopefully if that’s achieved suddenly our small spending won’t look so bad. Hopefully we can do what Burnley have done after their relegation in 2015
 

of course it might not be, we’ll never know if a £20M spend or so on a few players could have made the difference or would we have gone down regardless with players who didn’t live up to their value and our now millstones around our necks crippling the club and preventing proper planning. Or would they have been outstanding, lifted is to a lofty height And quadrupled their values?

The reality is we will never know - at the very least I’m confident the money we put aside will all be going into the club and however conservative or long term it may be is certainly a safe approach

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34 minutes ago, king canary said:

Not the point.

The point is that Webber said we couldn't compete for a player we wanted at the £7m mark.

Ah, sorry. The point I was demonstrating was the one about spending money with no certainty that it'll work out. Events at the time suggest that we could afford £7 million (but possibly not the wages which go with it) but maybe Webber felt that it was too much for Robinson, and his stats for Sheffield United support that possibility.

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Posted (edited)

Bilic got lucky, if Brentford had won either of their last two games then WBA would now be facing the play-off lottery.

Spouting off in the way he has looks like a transfer budget ploy to me. 

Edited by DraytonBoy
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2 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

So if the loans had been good we would have been trying, but because they weren’t, we weren’t (trying)? 

I don't think we tried too hard!  Six loans was a poor effort.

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6 hours ago, komakino said:

Norwich City contempt for the PL has been widely condemned this season - and rightly so. 

There is no pressure from the top downwards, because the owners don't like the PL as they made clear in the infamous Times article. There is no pressure from there fans either, because many appear to be glad we are back in The Championship. Have we the most unambitious fans in Europe, because we have the most unambitious owners in Europe? 

Norwich City is the model of failure which no club will repeat. 

Blimey.
Are you auditioning for a spot on TalkSh!te then? 

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Not read the whole thread, but, perhaps judge if our approach was correct in 3 seasons. We couldn't pay for immediate success but we have invested in our future, we have signed some exciting prospects over the last 3-4 windows which will come to fruition in the next year or two and we have invested heavily in the off field infrastructure which means we can maintain our excellent development programmes. If in 3 years we are back in the prem and in a good position then we did it right this year, if in 3 years we are still in the champs and looking lost then we were wrong....

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Promoted manager tells journalists that imitating the team that finished 20th isn't his transfer plan.

Shocking stuff.

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