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Samwam27

What we've learnt from this season

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That Krul desperately needs to stay. He keeps getting better and better, and oh for a solid defence in front of him.

That we may possess young defenders who could go for millions, but for two seasons now teams have banged in goals for fun. Godfrey has improved despite a bruising season, and with Zimm "could" form a solid CB pairing, but that's a big if as the injuries have shown it's not a given. Will Klose be good enough in Championship or is his best behind him. Both Zimm, Klose & Hanley could be good pairing for Godfrey, but are now injury prone.  Same with wingbacks. Lewis & Aarons look great going forward, but are they good enough defensively. With Byram & McCallum we have ready made replacements but do we have strength in depth.

Thank goodness for tettey, and in Jacobsen have we at last found the missing piece of the puzzle in a stronger, athletic CDM? Add Sitti and perhaps we;ve finally got some grit. However, without tettey we've looked woefully lightweight. We've proved neither Rupp, Maclean or Trybull form solid midfield pairings and none of those have worked. Jury still seems out on Rupp in just what his best position might be, and perhaps Mclean or Vrancic will operate more effectively further forward, with Tettey/Jacobsen holding the centre? I'm slightly concerned Rupp already seems a favourite of Farke though

Onel has got better and better as the season has gone on. Buendia's genius has been overshadowed yet again by petulance, but in Onel & Paleska we now have width and speed. Whether Buendia &/or Cantwell are here remains to be seen. Both would be a huge bonus to retain in Championship, but we still seem to be missing an effective No.10. Do we want to persist again with Stiep in hope he re-creates his last Championship form?

Pukki oh Pukki. If you find your scoring boots and stay then we'll all be happy. Idah looks young and hungry and has looked far more impressive in so many short cameos than Pukki & Drmic put together. Could well bags goals a plenty next season, but being young will have dips in form. Pukki and Idah need to lead us, but we need a quality 3rd striker as this season has shown without Pukki's form there are no goals elsewhere. Words cannot describe Drmic. IMO I hope he leaves, as I've seen nothing from him all season, and we look to replace. One of our poorest signings in many a season.

Any thoughts?

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Rupp still has the potential to be a decent Champs holding midfielder alongside the DM, it’s just when we try to play it out to him on the break or need him to hold it up that it doesn’t work. I’m not writing him off yet. Drmic on the other hand....

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Never to not invest when gaining promotion ,but unfortunately the board never learn as never invest every time we get into the big league so we end up back where we started , not so bad as this time though worst so far . 

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Nothing much we didn't already know I think.

  • The gap from Championship to Prem is still big, some underestimated that
  • Spending loads doesn't guarantee you stay up, spending nothing guarantees you don't
  • Momentum is easily lost but tough to get back

We'll learn far more about Farke, Webber and the long term viability of this project next season I think.

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Biggest lesson?

Just reflect on the words of Slaven Billic talking about what WBA need to do in the PL next season - "not like Norwich who haven’t even tried anything"

That is all you need to learn but I doubt that Smith and Jones are listening.

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13 hours ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Rupp still has the potential to be a decent Champs holding midfielder alongside the DM, it’s just when we try to play it out to him on the break or need him to hold it up that it doesn’t work. I’m not writing him off yet. Drmic on the other hand....

Isn`t a holding midfielder the same as a DM, just asking!!

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We learned that we needed another centre-half or two, we learned that top of the Championship was about the limit for many of our senior players, and that we need to be physically more imposing and combine brawn intelligently with brain next time.

January signings rarely work out either, especially in teams struggling for confidence as it is.

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We’ve learnt:

That our fans opinions of progression and success differs greatly.

That we have very few premiership quality players in our squad.

That promotion is pointless without continued ambition.

Farke is no wonder manager.

Farke is inflexible.

THERES MORE TO LIFE THAN FOOTBALL

what haven’t we learnt: 

Our defence is not good enough. Which we already knew from the previous season.

Our board don’t speculate.

Under our current board we will never sustain premiership status.

Football is depressing when you’re not competitive. Although we’ve never seen it quite as badly as we did this time.

THERES MORE TO LIFE THAN FOOTBALL.


 



 

 

 

 

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What we have learnt is that there has been no accountability for what has happened this season. Somewhat cynically, it has been mission accomplished as we have got relegated and took the money. 

Webber says 'Blame Me' knowing he has no chance of being sacked, so the whole thing is charade, as is the five year plan. 

If the EPL had brought in a rule - and I would very much like to see this - that meant you needed a minimum number of points to achieve the cash, I wonder if we have tried a little harder post resumption if that had been the case?  It would mean promoted clubs would have to take the league a little more seriously, which Norwich City did not do. 

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All I can think we’ve really learnt this season is that in the PL you need to strengthen your defence, as playing attacking football all the time doesn’t work very well - I don’t want Farke to copy Hughton/Pulis/Bruce etc and start parking the bus as that’s boring, I just want him to sign some decent defenders who aren’t injury prone and come up with a Plan B defensive style of play in addition to his Plan A attacking style

I think we’d learnt that breaking the bank isn’t always the solution to PL survival from Fulham the previous season but I think we know now that it definitely isn’t unless you spend it on players who are proven in the PL, as Sheffield Utd spent £70m and did brilliantly whilst Villa spent £144m and effectively got relegated, only staying up thanks to a fault in GLT

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I think we have learned we need to have more cover in general across the team, a couple of injuries and we are playing players who are not at the right level for the premier league.  

We need to do something about set pieces.  The organisation for these has looked quite bad at times. 

What we do can work and does work some of the time, but we need a plan B for when it isnt working. 

I'd maybe look at the games from this season again to see if anything could be learned by the coaching staff about being more proactive with substitutions and game management. 

The crowd and the team spirit is vital.   We need to find a way to change the atmosphere on the pitch before next season starts. 

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We have learned that if we want to play Farkeball we need to do it better.  We know from Farke that it is the beautiful game or nothing - and that is something to keep striving for.  No Pulis/Dyche defensive/bullying kind of football, just to stay in the division - but more the real football that we secretly would all like to see - the kind of football we saw the promotion season and saw glimpses of this season. 

What do we need to be able to do that?  Continue to believe in that style of football, have a settled defence that the team can trust (which injuries stopped us from doing this season), make sure midfield has a better balance of physique and skill, but most of all keep aiming for the highest ideals.  We know Farkeball works - we KNOW it.  The promotion season was sensational at times and we saw it occasionally this season too - so we know that at it's best it can compete with anyone. 

So imo, we have learned we can compete, we know Farkeball works if we are at our best - we simply need to carry on believing in it and see if we can develop it further and the next time we get up, if we are fortunate enough to do, we can apply Farkeball with a bit more strength and physicality.

It's a tweak rather than major change that is needed. 

 

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I think we've learnt that the majority of of our squad are not up to Premier League. We have a midfield that is not mobile enough, this shows in the lack of goals and assists from midfield and the lack of protection they offer our defence when we lose possession. We found out our 3 young defenders need to improve to be Premier League playerd. We also learnt that at the highest level, if Pukki is off form, we can't score. 

The question is, do we stick with proven Championship performers like Steiperman and look to replace him if and when we get promoted or rebuild now? 

 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

We have learned that if we want to play Farkeball we need to do it better.  We know from Farke that it is the beautiful game or nothing - and that is something to keep striving for.  No Pulis/Dyche defensive/bullying kind of football, just to stay in the division - but more the real football that we secretly would all like to see - the kind of football we saw the promotion season and saw glimpses of this season. 

What do we need to be able to do that?  Continue to believe in that style of football, have a settled defence that the team can trust (which injuries stopped us from doing this season), make sure midfield has a better balance of physique and skill, but most of all keep aiming for the highest ideals.  We know Farkeball works - we KNOW it.  The promotion season was sensational at times and we saw it occasionally this season too - so we know that at it's best it can compete with anyone. 

So imo, we have learned we can compete, we know Farkeball works if we are at our best - we simply need to carry on believing in it and see if we can develop it further and the next time we get up, if we are fortunate enough to do, we can apply Farkeball with a bit more strength and physicality.

It's a tweak rather than major change that is needed. 

 

What do you mean by competing though? We put in some good performances against good sides but we weren't very competitive against our relegation rivals. With the exception of Bournemouth and Newcastle we faired and performed really badly against teams in the bottom half of the PL. We lost home and away to teams like Villa, Watford and West ham. Teams that were struggling beat us comfortably in half those matches

Edited by seanthecanary

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1 minute ago, seanthecanary said:

What do you mean by competing though? We put in some good performances against good sides but we weren't very competitive against our relegation rivals. With the exception of Bournemouth and Newcastle we faired and performed really badly against teams in the bottom half of the PL. We lost home and away to teams like Villa, Watford and West ham. Teams that were struggling beat us comfortably in half those matches

When we play at our best we are competitive but it is not difficult to see that the type of football we are trying to play can be negated by strength and physical teams. The Man Cities and Liverpools of this world play a similar style of football, but have the players to do it so well that they are able to overcome those kinds of teams.  That is why I say we simply have to do it better.  We did compete well in many matches before the lockdown - sometimes not well enough to get points, but in spells, more than a match for the opposition - so again, it boils down to us playing the same way, but having the ability to do it better and for longer.  

 

 

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1 that stating we expect to go down is no way to start or continue a campaign in the EPL.... we have to have some expectation and ambition... that we learn from Wilder... we'll give it a go!    

2 that eveything has conspired against us... 

3 that confidence is imperative...

4 that carrying players in matches is just not an option especially bearing in mind 2 above.     walking onto the pitch with the likes of Duda, Drmic, Stiepermann, Trybull, Rupp puts us up against it from the off.

5 that having our offensive creators (Buendia, Cantwell and Hernandez) spending far too much time deep in our half protecting the full back is never going to allow us to thrive.    Even Pukki, spent half the season 70 yards from the opponents goal.

6 that we must have alternative options capable of changing a game dynamic significantly 

7 that we can tweak our formation from the off to react to a particular opponent.  

8 that we make effective substitutions that react to what's going on on the park or whats likely to happen in the latter stages.

9 that we look to pass sideways and forwards much more often.... e.g. Lewis has plenty of options inside but constantly goes back to Godfrey.

10 that we learn how to 'GET RID'.     It's been frankly embarrassing to watch some of the pathetic tippy-tappy defending when it needs some aggression to get that ball away from danger.... often that is a midfielder so it's an attitude required throughout the team.

11 that the project is about regular EPL membership and those who couldn't step up need to move on.   

12 that we are very inexperienced, (players and coaches) and that the coaches need to show their learning quickly.   That includes replacing players that didn't step up, not our best talent.  

13 that pace, strength, quality of touch and experience are pre-requisite when signing players.    Neat and tidy isn't enough.   

14 that Buendia is a no. 10 and needs to play further forward in a free role where he can receive the ball and frighten opponents.  His stats this season are off the scale even playing in this set up.    Most tackles again but most assists and chances created.   

15 we are doing it our way, we are in a much better position than we were when Farke arrived and the project continues....  

lots to learn, lots to improve, lots to change - pretty exciting times ahead   OTBC

 

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52 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

When we play at our best we are competitive but it is not difficult to see that the type of football we are trying to play can be negated by strength and physical teams. The Man Cities and Liverpools of this world play a similar style of football, but have the players to do it so well that they are able to overcome those kinds of teams.  That is why I say we simply have to do it better.  We did compete well in many matches before the lockdown - sometimes not well enough to get points, but in spells, more than a match for the opposition - so again, it boils down to us playing the same way, but having the ability to do it better and for longer.  

 

 

Look, I kind of agree with you about the way forward but the table and stats don't lie. We were 14 points off safety, with the worst goal difference by a long way (21), we are bottom on every stat that matters. I admire your glass half full approach but I can't look at this season and deem we've been competitive. 

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We have learnt that as well as technical ability you need pace and strengthen, of which we were seriously lacking. To be fair to the board, Webber and Farke that was been mentioned and they are trying to address it. Hopefully we will see better next season with the additions to the squad.

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22 minutes ago, seanthecanary said:

Look, I kind of agree with you about the way forward but the table and stats don't lie. We were 14 points off safety, with the worst goal difference by a long way (21), we are bottom on every stat that matters. I admire your glass half full approach but I can't look at this season and deem we've been competitive. 

We have been competitive on some levels. I agree of course that overall it looks bad, but if you look at some of the fine margins that cause a win or defeat, the errors that could have been avoided with a bit more savvy for example, like giving ther ball away in stupid positions which several of the players have done more than once, there is room to think that with a bit more experience, a bit more care we could have done better.   We can learn from that, the young players involved will have learned from that and if they stay they can show they have learned that next season.

 

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1. Money doesn't buy success. It buys resilience against bad luck. 

Fans risk their faith in Norwich City. Sometimes that faith is rewarded by a chance for the investors and owners to risk their capital productively. Treating the promotion to PL as "premature" phase of a project of financial stability as opposed to an unexpected windfall worth risking reasonable amount of money on wasn't an act of fiscal restraint, but of profligacy in protecting the capital value of a PL run. The lesson is to spend enough when it counts.

2. Norwich City still had reasonable chance before the break and certainly was going out with its pride intact. The return from the break revealed a team looking like it was left rot for months, unprepared physically and mentally to face relaunch. It is a difficult starting point for the next season.

3. Losers think confidence is a consequence of success. Winners understand success is the consequence of deliberate pursuit of confidence.

I believe confidence is a state of cognitive and psychological being that enables focusing on the task on hand regardless of circumstances. This supports the ability to focus on fighting every fight instead of trying to avoid failure. Being so successful 2018/19 hid the cause and effect reationship between success and confidence. The team had become an engine running on its own success and required leadership to transform once it became evident. Alas...

5.  Teemu Pukki dependent strategy short circuited itself against Newcastle and Mancester City. He became a marked man - perhaps *the* marked man in PL for a month or two. No coach in PL was going to let Pukki NewC or ManC them. Farke had no effective alternative. Once Pukki Party was over, we needed defensive grit to grind out goalless draws against mid table teams and score once or twice against teams more vulnerable to our offensive play. This became untenable with a loss of even one CB.

6. Norwich City is financially sound and solid Championship quality. But it could be and could have been more. That is the lesson of 2019/20 for me. I do not feel they achieved their potential. I worry that the underlying vulnerabilities in team dynamics and psyche of individual players remain and may reappear in the form of fatalism on field, which will harm the relationship between the team and fans.

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1] That spending bucket loads of cash can often make little or marginal difference. Villa spend £100m plus, not many of those signings have come off, very fortunate indeed to stay up. Sheffield Utd spent about £40m, non of those players have made anything other than a marginal difference. They could actually have stayed up spending virtually nothing as its the championship players that have done the business

2] Farke gave us a wonderful promotion season with his possession and attacking philosophy. I think he will do well next season in the championship. He could actually do well with a half decent premiership side BUT he is not suited IMO to a newly promoted side in the PL the tactics have been too open and naive, nice when it comes off but all too rarely at that level

3] Staying in the PL is a totally different game to getting there. The ones that seem to have the best success are sides that are physical, get in your face, stop other sides playing their normal game and let in very few goals, i look at Burnley and more recently Sheffield Utd. Trying to be open and out score the opposition with possession football is doomed to failure as the other sides by definition are far better at it all

 

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I have learnt that we have a defence that cannot defend and a centre forward that cannot head a ball, and that is from someone that has been at Carrow Road since 1963-64 season

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8 minutes ago, NorfBhoy66 said:

I have learnt that we have a defence that cannot defend and a centre forward that cannot head a ball, and that is from someone that has been at Carrow Road since 1963-64 season

Once a season in the away end ? 

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13 hours ago, FenwayFrank said:

Once a season in the away end ? 

Season ticket holder since 1971/72 season

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17 hours ago, Yorkshire Canary said:

3] Staying in the PL is a totally different game to getting there. The ones that seem to have the best success are sides that are physical, get in your face, stop other sides playing their normal game and let in very few goals, i look at Burnley and more recently Sheffield Utd. Trying to be open and out score the opposition with possession football is doomed to failure as the other sides by definition are far better at it all

I would like to see us carry on the philosophy that we have.  If we end up with a physical side like Burnley or Sheff Utd stopping other teams from playing rather than playing ourselves, I think I would soon lose interest. Playing  their style of football will keep them in the division for a year or two, maybe more, but I want to see us playing full on total football. We did in in the late 80's early nineties and succeeded - against the odds - and we did it last season in the championship - again against the odds.

It can be successful, but you have to believe in it and stick to it and that way, over a period of time, it will develop as it becomes more ingrained in the players and it gets better and better. The football of the late eighties took a while to come to it's full potential, so we need to be patient and stick with it.  If you want to get to the top, you won't do it playing stopping football - you will do it with total football. By the top I mean the top of the PL - top six. That is the challenge.  If you aim for mid table mediocrity, that is what you will get. Mediocrity.

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