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Samwam27

What we've learnt from this season

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I totally see where you are coming from. My comments were really on the basis of what is needed for a newly promoted side with no rich benefactor to stay in the top league if promoted, not about what the fans think about the style of play. Even there Stoke stayed in the top league for years playing the more defensive physical way, then the fans wanted more, they changed their style and got relegated and are now bumping around the bottom half of the championship. The days when a club like Norwich can get regularly in the top half of the PL without significant investment is long gone, Leicester  had success as a similar sized club but they had a lot of investment. It depends what you want. I like winning games and being entertained, other than the money to the club getting promoted is almost pointless if you are pretty confident you are going to come straight back down. I remember to good days of the 1980s and early 1990s, we became an established top flight club, but then the money started coming into the game and we could not compete. We  finished 3rd and had a great team and good manager, what happened our manager was coaxed away and our best players sold and not long afterwards we had  years in the championship.  I suppose my take is if you like entertaining football and we are a  self funding club enjoy the ride but do not complain each time we  go up and come down again, if you want to stay up, the style has to be more blunt and less entertaining

Edited by Yorkshire Canary
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20 minutes ago, Yorkshire Canary said:

I totally see where you are coming from. My comments were really on the basis of what is needed for a newly promoted side with no rich benefactor to stay in the top league if promoted, not about what the fans think about the style of play. Even there Stoke stayed in the top league for years playing the more defensive physical way, then the fans wanted more, they changed their style and got relegated and are now bumping around the bottom half of the championship. The days when a club like Norwich can get regularly in the top half of the PL without significant investment is long gone, Leicester  had success as a similar sized club but they had a lot of investment. It depends what you want. I like winning games and being entertained, other than the money to the club getting promoted is almost pointless if you are pretty confident you are going to come straight back down. I remember to good days of the 1980s and early 1990s, we became an established top flight club, but then the money started coming into the game and we could not compete. We  finished 3rd and had a great team and good manager, what happened our manager was coaxed away and our best players sold and not long afterwards we had  years in the championship.  I suppose my take is if you like entertaining football and we are a  self funding club enjoy the ride but do not complain each time we  go up and come down again, if you want to stay up, the style has to be more blunt and less entertaining

I can understand that, but do not want us to be like those clubs that play a kind of non-football. Every once in a while you get a club that bucks the trend and shows a different way forwards - and I believe we can be that club. It may take a while, but with the right manager/head coach, I believe it can be done.  I don't know how long DF will stay with us, but I suspect that if we get promoted again next season, the following PL season would be different from this one - and if we stayed up that season, the following one to that could be very special. That is four years away and of course people want to see success now, but there is a dream - a vision if you like - that success can come if you follow the right policies for long enough to see them through.  We are all feeling a bit down at the moment, but it won't take much to get us going again and if Farke is still here in four years time, it will be because it is all working as he - and we - would want it.

 

Edited by lake district canary
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2 hours ago, lake district canary said:

I can understand that, but do not want us to be like those clubs that play a kind of non-football. Every once in a while you get a club that bucks the trend and shows a different way forwards - and I believe we can be that club. It may take a while, but with the right manager/head coach, I believe it can be done.  I don't know how long DF will stay with us, but I suspect that if we get promoted again next season, the following PL season would be different from this one - and if we stayed up that season, the following one to that could be very special. That is four years away and of course people want to see success now, but there is a dream - a vision if you like - that success can come if you follow the right policies for long enough to see them through.  We are all feeling a bit down at the moment, but it won't take much to get us going again and if Farke is still here in four years time, it will be because it is all working as he - and we - would want it.

 

I just love having a club to watch that is my top priority particularly in these very difficult times. I cannot and would not knock your optimism its great. I suppose i have  a perhaps more cynical view albeit always optimistic too. If we have at some stage in our future a rich owner who i might add must genuinely care for the club then i think we can achieve the status that you aspire to. With the current set up , which has much to commend it i feel we will be a top championship side producing good youngsters with hopefully the odd prudent buy as well. We will not be able to compete with top clubs in either transfers or wages and if and when we do have a squad that does better than  normal in the top flight i fear the history of the early 1990s will come back to haunt us and successful managers will be poached by bigger clubs who will also buy are better players. The one big if is if we do hit the jackpot some day of top manager and good squad that gets into the PL s we are in the shop window for someone to invest in

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The main learning is Delia still hasn’t a clue how to run a football club even after 20 years

that Webber is a chancer and I wouldn’t buy a second hand car off him 

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We've learned:

That the financial gap between the EPL and EFL is too big to bridge without a wealthy owner, in one season.

That Farkeball doesn't work against superior athletes.

That most, if not all, of our players could not step up to the consistent performance level required. That some of those are now being talked of as £30m players just shows what a state English football is in.

That Tim Krul is back to being a very fine goalkeeper indeed, even if still prone to the odd stupid error.

That Ben Godfrey is not a world class centre back yet.

Just how easy we are to score against. We never made it hard in any game. Sometimes teams missed their chances (Newcastle, Everton, Bournemouth) but mostly they didn't. We don't cut out crosses; we don't block shots; we don't clear our penalty area; we don't mark at set pieces; we don't track runners; we don't defend as a team. We learned that if we don't solve this we won't be top half next season.

That if we do manage to go up again we need faster, stronger players.

That if we do manage to go up again we need to recruit better.

 

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5 hours ago, lake district canary said:

I would like to see us carry on the philosophy that we have.  If we end up with a physical side like Burnley or Sheff Utd stopping other teams from playing rather than playing ourselves, I think I would soon lose interest. Playing  their style of football will keep them in the division for a year or two, maybe more, but I want to see us playing full on total football. We did in in the late 80's early nineties and succeeded - against the odds - and we did it last season in the championship - again against the odds.

It can be successful, but you have to believe in it and stick to it and that way, over a period of time, it will develop as it becomes more ingrained in the players and it gets better and better. The football of the late eighties took a while to come to it's full potential, so we need to be patient and stick with it.  If you want to get to the top, you won't do it playing stopping football - you will do it with total football. By the top I mean the top of the PL - top six. That is the challenge.  If you aim for mid table mediocrity, that is what you will get. Mediocrity.

Ah! But the truth is we had much better players then. Relative to the time period. They had skill, guile and strengthen. They were simply better all round players.

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40 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

We've learned:

That the financial gap between the EPL and EFL is too big to bridge without a wealthy owner, in one season.

That Farkeball doesn't work against superior athletes.

That most, if not all, of our players could not step up to the consistent performance level required. That some of those are now being talked of as £30m players just shows what a state English football is in.

That Tim Krul is back to being a very fine goalkeeper indeed, even if still prone to the odd stupid error.

That Ben Godfrey is not a world class centre back yet.

Just how easy we are to score against. We never made it hard in any game. Sometimes teams missed their chances (Newcastle, Everton, Bournemouth) but mostly they didn't. We don't cut out crosses; we don't block shots; we don't clear our penalty area; we don't mark at set pieces; we don't track runners; we don't defend as a team. We learned that if we don't solve this we won't be top half next season.

That if we do manage to go up again we need faster, stronger players.

That if we do manage to go up again we need to recruit better.

 

I think this is spot on. 

I question if Ben Godfrey will ever be a top flight quality player. I think we would have seen more glimpses of it by now if he was going to. Same could be said for the fullbacks.

However I've highlighted the most spot on point of this post. And it is spot on. And there lies my problem with the manager is style and he ethos. Truth is you could condense that paragraph in to one statement. We dont play the game properly. 

In the championship we got the rub of the green and our attacking prowess pulled us through but who knew we'd sign a 30 goal man who knew Emi could play such passes and who knows if they will be here to do it next term. And who knows if their likely unkown replacements will be able to.

I have my doubts either way.

 

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6 hours ago, Uncle Fred said:

The main learning is Delia still hasn’t a clue how to run a football club even after 20 years

that Webber is a chancer and I wouldn’t buy a second hand car off him 

Not even a low-mileage and in a decent nick Defender?.....(Land Rover).....

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8 hours ago, sgncfc said:

We've learned:

That the financial gap between the EPL and EFL is too big to bridge without a wealthy owner, in one season.

That Farkeball doesn't work against superior athletes.

That most, if not all, of our players could not step up to the consistent performance level required. That some of those are now being talked of as £30m players just shows what a state English football is in.

That Tim Krul is back to being a very fine goalkeeper indeed, even if still prone to the odd stupid error.

That Ben Godfrey is not a world class centre back yet.

Just how easy we are to score against. We never made it hard in any game. Sometimes teams missed their chances (Newcastle, Everton, Bournemouth) but mostly they didn't. We don't cut out crosses; we don't block shots; we don't clear our penalty area; we don't mark at set pieces; we don't track runners; we don't defend as a team. We learned that if we don't solve this we won't be top half next season.

That if we do manage to go up again we need faster, stronger players.

That if we do manage to go up again we need to recruit better.

 

Spot on i agree with just about all of that

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10 hours ago, Uncle Fred said:

The main learning is Delia still hasn’t a clue how to run a football club even after 20 years

that Webber is a chancer and I wouldn’t buy a second hand car off him 

The mask is rapidly sliding down the face .....

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