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Just now, Yorkshire Canary said:

I agree with this totally. The Blades had a different philosophy of playing, keep it tight and very hard to beat and were very physical, the spine of their promoted team performed very well, their tactics and philosophy were much better at surviving in the Pl and they did so by a country mile. When they got promoted they had one of the best defenses in the championship we had a bottom 3rd one. Our charge of the light brigade tactics in the championship was wonderful to watch but we were never going to score the goals to make up for such a poor defensive record in the PL and when we were physically out muscled in defense and midfield and the people who scored our goals in the championship failed to do so it was curtains. In the main the Sheffield Utd side that got them promoted kept them up, you need to play differently to stay up than we did . I think with our style of play we could have spent £100m on new players and still gone down, you cannot let in 2 or 3 goals so often and have much of a chance and thats with a fantastic keeper as well. I like much about what Webber and Farke have done at the club and they are probably the best placed to get us promoted again, but if we go up again and play in the same manner and have so many physically lightweight players is suspect we will have the same result

If only you could have told Chris Wilder that before the season started, he could have saved his club £60 million.

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well as pointed out the money he did spend had by and large been wasted, time will tell what resale they will get on that investment. His side was more like the side we had under Lambert that went form league 1 to the PL and kept there with basically players signed from when we were league 1 with the odd addition. Holt and Morrison terrorized the PL defences but learned their trade in the lower leagues. The Blades have done so well because they are a very well organised, physically big, very fit and a splendid team spirit and let few goals in. As they get fancy and start trying to "upgrade" they run the risk of much of that going and the wheels coming off

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2 hours ago, birchfest said:

So no, you cant give me names. I mean, we could go round in this circle all day long, I can't prove your wrong, but I can say your working off a hunch and hypotheticals. Do you not think if someone was serious they wouldn't go public knowing there would be pressure externally for them to sell. What about the other share holders, why have none of these interested parties started buying up their shares to show they are serious if Delia won't budge? Probably because it hasn't happened. I don't doubt interest, probably to buy us on the cheap to be a play thing for someone, or in the hope they could make a quick return on us being promoted, but I doubt anyone who could actually move this club forward in the way we all want to see. 

It was clearly a combination of factors that saw Shef U do so well in comparison to us. Part of it is that they can defend and grind out results. Part of it was they could cope better physically and another part of it was a bit of luck/momentum that we never had due to the injury disruption. However I also don;t think you can dismiss the spending as well. Yes the likes of Mousett and Mcburnie were not guranteed starters for them and each only got half a dozen goals but they were often important goals and they gave their squad depth and competition whereas we were bringing on Joseph Drmic when Pukki was injured or lost form. I also think i'm right in saying that we only had 2 players who got more than 1 goal so to have two new signings get half a dozen goals each for them was no doubt important. It also presumably cost them a fair bit to get Henderson back on loan and he single handedly won them several points.

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Just now, Jim Smith said:

It was clearly a combination of factors that saw Shef U do so well in comparison to us. Part of it is that they can defend and grind out results. Part of it was they could cope better physically and another part of it was a bit of luck/momentum that we never had due to the injury disruption. However I also don;t think you can dismiss the spending as well. Yes the likes of Mousett and Mcburnie were not guranteed starters for them and each only got half a dozen goals but they were often important goals and they gave their squad depth and competition whereas we were bringing on Joseph Drmic when Pukki was injured or lost form. I also think i'm right in saying that we only had 2 players who got more than 1 goal so to have two new signings get half a dozen goals each for them was no doubt important. It also presumably cost them a fair bit to get Henderson back on loan and he single handedly won them several points.

sorry quoted the wrong post there!

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I don't think Sheffield United spent particularly well but most of their signings have played a part in a season where they've finished top half so it's difficult to argue they've not had an impact. If their impact matches the prices they paid is probably going to be incredibly subjective.

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2 hours ago, Bannana Boy said:

It always strikes me when I read threads like this just how abjectly dim a proportion of our supporter base is.  

Yes this season has been a footballing catastrofcuk, and I cannot abide relegation - especially when we pass Leeds going the other way.  

But.

* You don’t get a big wad of cash upon promotion.  It is paid in instalments. See also parachute payments

* No-one wants to “invest” in Norwich City. If the majority shareholders were rejecting takeover offers left, right and centre do you not think that maybe, just maybe, the press might get wind of this.  There may also be a duty to inform shareholders of offers, someone who knows more about company rules could answer that.

* “The board” could have mortgaged the club’s future for a better shot at staying up.  The last time this was tried NCFC ended up back in the Championship and close to administration.  Only selling James Maddison prevented this from happening. 

* Delia/the board/the tea lady aren’t “trousering the money.”  The accounts are published and are there for all to see.  Just look on the Companies House website.  If you repeat claims that the owners are pocketing money then I submit that you are mostly bone from the neck up.

* The general consensus at the start of the season, and certainly after we beat Man City, was that a good approach had been taken re transfers and spending.  There’s a hell of a lot of revisionism going on here.

* Setting a target of being a top-26 club doesn’t mean no ambition.  It’s realistic.  Would you rather Delia came out and said “we have the ambition to win the Premier League in five years?”  Of course not as it would, rightly, be derided as bunkum.  Being a top-26 club does not preclude further ambition.  Having this target does not exclude having an improved target once this one has been reached.  

Norwich City is a mid-sized, provincial football club with a very strong local supporter base but little international support and marketing potential.  Norwich itself is small provincial city with little in the way of opportunity for large international investors. There are no major infrastructure projects and poor connectivity to places with secondary interests potential new owners would look for.  The club is also, now, financially stable, meaning investors can’t buy it on the cheap and turn a quick profit.

The reality of the club’s position is that it must live within its means or stand the very real risk of going out of business.  Would you really prefer a couple of mid-table Premier League finishes followed by relegation and then administration, over attempting to build something sustainably? 

I was going to compose a post on this thread but there is little point as you’ve covered everything I was going to say in yours 🙂

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2 hours ago, Bannana Boy said:

It always strikes me when I read threads like this just how abjectly dim a proportion of our supporter base is.  

Yes this season has been a footballing catastrofcuk, and I cannot abide relegation - especially when we pass Leeds going the other way.  

But.

* You don’t get a big wad of cash upon promotion.  It is paid in instalments. See also parachute payments

* No-one wants to “invest” in Norwich City. If the majority shareholders were rejecting takeover offers left, right and centre do you not think that maybe, just maybe, the press might get wind of this.  There may also be a duty to inform shareholders of offers, someone who knows more about company rules could answer that.

* “The board” could have mortgaged the club’s future for a better shot at staying up.  The last time this was tried NCFC ended up back in the Championship and close to administration.  Only selling James Maddison prevented this from happening. 

* Delia/the board/the tea lady aren’t “trousering the money.”  The accounts are published and are there for all to see.  Just look on the Companies House website.  If you repeat claims that the owners are pocketing money then I submit that you are mostly bone from the neck up.

* The general consensus at the start of the season, and certainly after we beat Man City, was that a good approach had been taken re transfers and spending.  There’s a hell of a lot of revisionism going on here.

* Setting a target of being a top-26 club doesn’t mean no ambition.  It’s realistic.  Would you rather Delia came out and said “we have the ambition to win the Premier League in five years?”  Of course not as it would, rightly, be derided as bunkum.  Being a top-26 club does not preclude further ambition.  Having this target does not exclude having an improved target once this one has been reached.  

Norwich City is a mid-sized, provincial football club with a very strong local supporter base but little international support and marketing potential.  Norwich itself is small provincial city with little in the way of opportunity for large international investors. There are no major infrastructure projects and poor connectivity to places with secondary interests potential new owners would look for.  The club is also, now, financially stable, meaning investors can’t buy it on the cheap and turn a quick profit.

The reality of the club’s position is that it must live within its means or stand the very real risk of going out of business.  Would you really prefer a couple of mid-table Premier League finishes followed by relegation and then administration, over attempting to build something sustainably? 

Nailed it. The bit in bold is absolutely spot on.

As much as every last one of us wants to win, I think some of us have forgotten all too quickly how close we were to administration both when we were falling limply into Division One, and how parlous things were looking before we sold Maddison.

As a Canary living in Bolton (and therefore seeing closely what was going on there when you get a proper asset-stripping chancer as chairman before the takeover there, as well as the demise of neighbouring Bury and the kerfuffle with Wigan right now), you really don't want to go down that route due to overstretching finances. 

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2 hours ago, Bannana Boy said:

It always strikes me when I read threads like this just how abjectly dim a proportion of our supporter base is.  

Yes this season has been a footballing catastrofcuk, and I cannot abide relegation - especially when we pass Leeds going the other way.  

But.

* You don’t get a big wad of cash upon promotion.  It is paid in instalments. See also parachute payments

* No-one wants to “invest” in Norwich City. If the majority shareholders were rejecting takeover offers left, right and centre do you not think that maybe, just maybe, the press might get wind of this.  There may also be a duty to inform shareholders of offers, someone who knows more about company rules could answer that.

* “The board” could have mortgaged the club’s future for a better shot at staying up.  The last time this was tried NCFC ended up back in the Championship and close to administration.  Only selling James Maddison prevented this from happening. 

* Delia/the board/the tea lady aren’t “trousering the money.”  The accounts are published and are there for all to see.  Just look on the Companies House website.  If you repeat claims that the owners are pocketing money then I submit that you are mostly bone from the neck up.

* The general consensus at the start of the season, and certainly after we beat Man City, was that a good approach had been taken re transfers and spending.  There’s a hell of a lot of revisionism going on here.

* Setting a target of being a top-26 club doesn’t mean no ambition.  It’s realistic.  Would you rather Delia came out and said “we have the ambition to win the Premier League in five years?”  Of course not as it would, rightly, be derided as bunkum.  Being a top-26 club does not preclude further ambition.  Having this target does not exclude having an improved target once this one has been reached.  

Norwich City is a mid-sized, provincial football club with a very strong local supporter base but little international support and marketing potential.  Norwich itself is small provincial city with little in the way of opportunity for large international investors. There are no major infrastructure projects and poor connectivity to places with secondary interests potential new owners would look for.  The club is also, now, financially stable, meaning investors can’t buy it on the cheap and turn a quick profit.

The reality of the club’s position is that it must live within its means or stand the very real risk of going out of business.  Would you really prefer a couple of mid-table Premier League finishes followed by relegation and then administration, over attempting to build something sustainably? 

To say that 'nobody wants to 'invest' in Norwich City is disingenuous. It is clear from Smith & Jones that they don't listen to them and seem to take great pleasure in that. Did you read The Times article? Maybe nobody tries anymore? 

The much missed Bowkett said that he thought Norwich City could establish itself as a Top 10 club. That may have been ambitious, but do-able. A Top 26 club is buying into failure. Who wants failure? 

I don't believe for a second that Delia is running away with the cash, as that is a ridiculous comment for anyone to make, but she has done very well out of the club in terms for what she originally invested in relation to the publicity. 

The last paragraph is interesting. It reminds of how football used to be, not what it has long since become. If you want sustainability, don't get involved in a football club, at least not at this level. You need either an owner with deep pockets or has connections that are prepared to plough large sums of cash in. Failure to do so means you cannot compete and we have failed to compete this season on a grand scale. 

You have two camps with the Norwich fanbase, those that want to be successful and those that aren't fussed. We have too many in the latter camp. 

You cannot have the former with Delia, but you might with somebody else. 

The Chase Out riots seem like such a long time ago, but we were replacing the present with the past. 

 

 

 

 

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Go back several years and people were moaning when we signed Godfrey, Maddison, Aarons etc that they couldn't help us right then. Couple of years later we apparently didn't have a team without Maddison and were guaranteed to be relegated. He left and we brought in Pukki, Stieperman, Hernandez etc who were just lower league failures so we were still guaranteed to be relegated. Now we're a laughing stock and Placheta, Sorenson, Sinani etc are just lower league failures who are useless for us..... anybody spot a pattern?

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2 hours ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

It’s more pity, I live in the midlands and get opinions from fans of many different clubs. 

Do they contact you in their 000s as a first point of reference then ? 

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In the nine games since lockdown, lost all nine scored one conceded 23. If we keep Farke and surely lose our top six players it’s very hard to see how we will take the championship by storm. Can only see another wasted season, with Farke replaced early in the new year.

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4 minutes ago, Alfie54 said:

In the nine games since lockdown, lost all nine scored one conceded 23. If we keep Farke and surely lose our top six players it’s very hard to see how we will take the championship by storm. Can only see another wasted season, with Farke replaced early in the new year.

You have to remember that Delia gets too chummy with the managers of Norwich City, so she doesn't sack them. Totally gutless. 

Peter Grant and Bryan Hamilton are but two she tried to 'talk around', but fortunately failed to do so. 

Farke would have been sacked at any club at any level anywhere in the world, even though he was not financially supported. 

If he leaves, it will be because he is too embarrassed to stay. 

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7 minutes ago, komakino said:

You have to remember that Delia gets too chummy with the managers of Norwich City, so she doesn't sack them. Totally gutless. 

Peter Grant and Bryan Hamilton are but two she tried to 'talk around', but fortunately failed to do so. 

Farke would have been sacked at any club at any level anywhere in the world, even though he was not financially supported. 

If he leaves, it will be because he is too embarrassed to stay. 

Most of your posts are could, would and the odd should.

You aren't adding anything helpful but more and more spiteful.

 What is your solution that is at all possible? Not just what you would like but what is possible.

Shall I send an email to Jeff Bezos?

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48 minutes ago, komakino said:

To say that 'nobody wants to 'invest' in Norwich City is disingenuous. It is clear from Smith & Jones that they don't listen to them and seem to take great pleasure in that. Did you read The Times article? Maybe nobody tries anymore? 

The much missed Bowkett said that he thought Norwich City could establish itself as a Top 10 club. That may have been ambitious, but do-able. A Top 26 club is buying into failure. Who wants failure? 

I don't believe for a second that Delia is running away with the cash, as that is a ridiculous comment for anyone to make, but she has done very well out of the club in terms for what she originally invested in relation to the publicity. 

The last paragraph is interesting. It reminds of how football used to be, not what it has long since become. If you want sustainability, don't get involved in a football club, at least not at this level. You need either an owner with deep pockets or has connections that are prepared to plough large sums of cash in. Failure to do so means you cannot compete and we have failed to compete this season on a grand scale. 

You have two camps with the Norwich fanbase, those that want to be successful and those that aren't fussed. We have too many in the latter camp. 

You cannot have the former with Delia, but you might with somebody else. 

The Chase Out riots seem like such a long time ago, but we were replacing the present with the past. 

 

 

 

 

If someone was serious about wanting to buy Norwich City we would know about it.  Even if the majority shareholders didn’t take their calls they would either tap up other shareholders or make noises in the media.  Also, as I said, there may be a duty to inform all shareholders if an offer is made.

“A Top 26 club is buying into failure. Who wants failure?”  Top 26 is not an absolute limit.  It is possible, believe me, to hold two or more concepts in your head at any given time.  In this instance the first concept is stabilising as a top 26 club.  The second concept is that this is a stepping stone to loftier heights.  Achieve the first target, move on to the second.

”It reminds of how football used to be, not what it has long since become”. Wrong - this is exactly what modern football is like.  People invest in football clubs for a number of reasons such as:

1. The ability to turn a quick profit through asset stripping or buying debt very cheaply, then selling the club on

2. As part of a wider business plan and being able to get fingers into a community’s pies

3. Image laundering

4. Sleeping giant, the purchase of which will enable 2 and/or 3

Norwich City do not tick any of those boxes.  The club is financially stable, there are no local business opportunities (like a big infrastructure project), it doesn’t have the international appeal to make image laundering worth while and it is very much not a sleeping giant.

People can wish all they want for some rich person, or company, to come sailing up the Wensum but it is very, very unlikely to happen - at least while the club is in a decent position financially.  Outside investment will come when either the Club is going to go into administration or when the club has been in the Premier League for a decent stretch of time (10+ years) and has built up a large enough global brand.

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1 hour ago, komakino said:

 

The much missed Bowkett said that he thought Norwich City could establish itself as a Top 10 club. That may have been ambitious, but do-able. A Top 26 club is buying into failure. Who wants failure? 

I could claim I stand a chance of a threesome with Margot Robbie and Scarlett Johansson. It doesn't mean anything unless you achieve it though, does it?

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5 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Most of your posts are could, would and the odd should.

You aren't adding anything helpful but more and more spiteful.

 What is your solution that is at all possible? Not just what you would like but what is possible.

Shall I send an email to Jeff Bezos?

Easy. Have an owner who can make the tough decisions. History has shown that she is not good at letting people go! Moxey is the only case where action was taken. 

Part of me feels sorry for Farke as he has not been given much of a chance, but losing 10 games in a row is not acceptable and would not be acceptable at any club. 

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1 hour ago, komakino said:

You have two camps with the Norwich fanbase, those that want to be successful and those that aren't fussed. We have too many in the latter camp. 

Nice soundbite but utter and complete  carp, we all want the club to be successful  , just some of us want success built on sustainability.... our own dosh, generated by promotions/ parachute  and players sales....and before you jump on the last one , I dont mean selling all our best players  just some, that we will already have replacements for. Not gonna bother arguing at length with a blinkered money chaser, you know the plan.  It's a case of like it or lump it. No amount of whinging is gonna change it , suck it up or go talk to a lamp post.. you'll get as much response from that as you will from the Club on this one.  It really is a pointless  exercise to whine about investment . BECAUSE NO ONE IS LISTENING. 

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If only we were Watford 😵........we would have been spared the embarassment of last season's promotion.............

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7 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I could claim I stand a chance of a threesome with Margot Robbie and Scarlett Johansson. It doesn't mean anything unless you achieve it though, does it?

Fair point, but look at it from a players point of view. They want ambition. Selling the club to player x to be a 'Top 26' club is not exactly going to be a major plus point. You always aim higher than you are likely to land, but Top 26 is a laughable comment for the club to publicly make in my view. 

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8 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I could claim I stand a chance of a threesome with Margot Robbie and Scarlett Johansson. It doesn't mean anything unless you achieve it though, does it?

Plus times have changed and what may have been achievable  then is no longer possible .. until we get ourselves a head of steam behind us.  

God knows how you guys find the patience to debate with the whingers.  

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Nice soundbite but utter and complete  carp, we all want the club to be successful  , just some of us want success built on sustainability.... our own dosh, generated by promotions/ parachute  and players sales....and before you jump on the last one , I dont mean selling all our best players  just some, that we will already have replacements for. Not gonna bother arguing at length with a blinkered money chaser, you know the plan.  It's a case of like it or lump it. No amount of whinging is gonna change it , suck it up or go talk to a lamp post.. you'll get as much response from that as you will from the Club on this one.  It really is a pointless  exercise to whine about investment . BECAUSE NO ONE IS LISTENING. 

You cannot be sustainable and be successful in football. That is the rub. 

As I said, there are two types of fans...

Edited by komakino

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2 minutes ago, komakino said:

Fair point, but look at it from a players point of view. They want ambition. Selling the club to player x to be a 'Top 26' club is not exactly going to be a major plus point. You always aim higher than you are likely to land, but Top 26 is a laughable comment for the club to publicly make in my view. 

If the only number you see is 26 then you are blinder than I thought, what the statement means is Prem league or Champs play offs at worst. 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, komakino said:

You cannot be sustainable and be successful in football. That is the rub. 

As I said, there are two types of fans.

Again more soundbite twaddle... do you write headlines for The Sun?

 

Edited by wcorkcanary

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3 minutes ago, komakino said:

You cannot be sustainable and be successful in football. That is the rub. 

As I said, there are two types of fans...

Er,right.............so for how long does 'unsustainable' breed success then?😦

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3 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Again more soundbite twaddle... do you write headlines for The Sun?

Just facts. 

It is very difficult for any club to be consistently profitable and successful, hence why many clubs are bankrolled (usually) by foreign investment. 

Norwich City has no investment, but has no success - at least in relation to the late 80's/early 90's. 

The 'sustainable model' is just a mirage. 

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3 minutes ago, komakino said:

Fair point, but look at it from a players point of view. They want ambition. Selling the club to player x to be a 'Top 26' club is not exactly going to be a major plus point. You always aim higher than you are likely to land, but Top 26 is a laughable comment for the club to publicly make in my view. 

Only if you're thick.

 

They could have said Top 20 - to be in the Premier League. Of course, that's where they want to be, but if you finish 18th, 19th or as we just have 20th, you've met the brief but can't meet it next season which makes no sense. So perhaps they should say a top 17 club but that doesn't account for the very distinct possibility of relegation from the top flight. We don't want to be relegated but as Norwich City aren't Manchester United, Manchester City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham, Arsenal and at a push Everton, we have to wager that into our thoughts - it's always a possibility - as countless "established" clubs have found to their detriment (see Watford and Bournemouth now coming down in their fifth season). It's not realistic to ignore the fact that we might finish 18th, 19th or 20th. So, accepting that relegation is a possibility, how can we produce a target that accounts for that but still wants us to be as good as we possibly can be?

By saying what they did. That the ambition is to be in the Premier League and that if we find ourselves not there then to be strongly challenging to be there; which means being in the top 6 of the Championship.

It's not a lack of ambition; it's realistic, pragmatic, ambitious, achievable and the bare minimum that they hope to accomplish. 

The argument that it lacks ambition is nonsense; what would you have them say? Top 26 not ambitious enough, top 20 we might get relegated still, top 17 why aim for fourth from bottom, top 10 why not target europe, top 5 why only target the UEFA cup, top 4 well if we're going for the Champions League we might as well target winning it...behave...

 

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1 minute ago, C.I.D said:

Er,right.............so for how long does 'unsustainable' breed success then?😦

Spot on C.I.D. o  ,I think diddums wants to be man city  or  liverpool  or maybe he just cant deal with reality. 

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1 minute ago, Duncan Edwards said:

Only if you're thick.

 

They could have said Top 20 - to be in the Premier League. Of course, that's where they want to be, but if you finish 18th, 19th or as we just have 20th, you've met the brief but can't meet it next season which makes no sense. So perhaps they should say a top 17 club but that doesn't account for the very distinct possibility of relegation from the top flight. We don't want to be relegated but as Norwich City aren't Manchester United, Manchester City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham, Arsenal and at a push Everton, we have to wager that into our thoughts - it's always a possibility - as countless "established" clubs have found to their detriment (see Watford and Bournemouth now coming down in their fifth season). It's not realistic to ignore the fact that we might finish 18th, 19th or 20th. So, accepting that relegation is a possibility, how can we produce a target that accounts for that but still wants us to be as good as we possibly can be?

By saying what they did. That the ambition is to be in the Premier League and that if we find ourselves not there then to be strongly challenging to be there; which means being in the top 6 of the Championship.

It's not a lack of ambition; it's realistic, pragmatic, ambitious, achievable and the bare minimum that they hope to accomplish. 

The argument that it lacks ambition is nonsense; what would you have them say? Top 26 not ambitious enough, top 20 we might get relegated still, top 17 why aim for fourth from bottom, top 10 why not target europe, top 5 why only target the UEFA cup, top 4 well if we're going for the Champions League we might as well target winning it...behave...

 

Kaboom, hole in one Duncano. 

Anyone else finding this to be yet another groundhog day  discussion?

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1 minute ago, wcorkcanary said:

Spot on C.I.D. o  ,I think diddums wants to be man city  or  liverpool  or maybe he just cant deal with reality. 

I just want Norwich City to be successful, which cannot happen under the present majority shareholders. 

We need investment, wherever it (legally) comes from.  

 

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Just now, wcorkcanary said:

It's not a lack of ambition; it's realistic, pragmatic, ambitious, achievable and the bare minimum that they hope to accomplish. 

I would add to that , that the next season may see us drop out of the top 26 but then I'd expect us to be in really good shape for the following season, much like Farkes first season but then coming back even stronger than we did in his second. 

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