We will bounce back straight away

[TheGunnShow 5,933]

14 hours ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Right now, at this moment, it’s a big ask. Last season in the Champs the stars aligned somewhat, I’m not going to say we were just lucky but we certainly got the rub of the green on several occasions. The team are now going to be low on confidence, psychologically impacted and after some transfers may be weakened in some key areas. It’ll be interesting to see whether Farke makes some changes tactically or to his approach based on this season’s failures, and whether he can build the players back up again ready for a gruelling season in the Champs. I’ll make a judgement after 10 games but it’s an absolutely massive job ahead. That said, if we do have a “so-so” season and aren’t in the mix for promotion at the end there will be serious questions to be asked about the Project and whether more should have been done to take advantage of the season just gone rather than banking on us securing promotion again at a later date.

Ten games is probably not enough. Don't forget that we had a poor start in the first six games even when we won the Championship.

[paddycanary 538]

Too early to make a decent prediction. Transfer window closed & 12 games in will give a much clearer picture. Even then, sometimes momentum after Christmas does the trick; new signings bedding in & finding their feet etc. 

Anything less than top six next May will be deemed a failure. And if promotion isn't achieved in the next two seasons, the "plan/project" will also be deemed a failure. Every window is important, but this one seems to be "more importanter!"

I still don't believe that the defensive personnel we went with last August was the primary factor in our demise. Aarons, Byram, Lewis, Godfrey, Zimmermann, Hanley & Klose are all good enough for top Champo, lower Prem for me, when fit & available. We had shocking luck with CB injuries. But Aarons & Lewis played virtually the whole season. If their primary job is to provide width, then the deep midfield has to anticipate, cover & screen. We were badly exposed in central midfield and also left the full-backs exposed with poor cover from the three behind Pukki. Including Tettey who was the best of a mediocre bunch, none of our deep/central midfield were up to the standard. And this in front of a makeshift central defence. The press all too easily exploited these weaknesses and then amateurish defending from set-pieces left us with no chance. Rupp & Duda was a fairly half-hearted attempt to rectify things in January. All of this along with Buendia being targeted and Pukki running out of steam led to what we saw pan out in 2020. 

I'm concerned that we cannot rely on the fitness & availability of Byram, Hanley, Klose & even big Zimm going into next season and I think Aarons will be leaving. I think we need to acquire at least one "quality" CB this window. Will the funds be released & will a sufficient/competitive wage be permitted without upsetting the apple-cart? Will Byram & Jordan Thomas be deemed sufficient at RB if Aarons leaves?

Will Sitti be sent out on loan to get experience & game-time? Is Sorensen being groomed to be the long sought after CDM enforcer? On paper we have a decent set of central midfielders for a top six challenge but clearly none (yet?) for Prem level. It feels like we've been down this road before, but if the "bounce-back" is somehow achieved next May, hopefully this lesson has been learned and will be addressed. Costs money though!

 

[Hardhouse44 261]

Im expecting mid table mediocrity, and farke gone before Christmas. I dont see the club spending any real money and the spin doctor will give us the reason as CV 19 related.

I still believe the club is rotten at the core. 

 

[City 2nd 191]

7 hours ago, FenwayFrank said:

I take it we’re not counting getting promoted?

We leaked goals when we got promoted - it was the worst championship winning side “goals conceded” in history of the league. We leaked goals in the premiership, what has getting promoted got to do with it!

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

15 hours ago, peter72 said:

No chance. I know my football

Why has the discussion continued after this post? Peter has spoken.

[Jerrykerry 223]

With three quality, big, experienced additions, sure why not. 

Otherwise, not a chance in hell. 

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

I have little doubt that we will be in the mix for top 6.The two 22 year olds that we have just signed from Poland and Denmark sound promising but will have to get used to living abroad and playing in a very different league, i hope they settle quickly, it will not be until they have done so that we will have a clear indication as to how good they are at this level. We have quite a few senior pros with a  decent amount of championship experience, they will be the spine of the team and they need to throw off the losing habit from last season asap. I would like to see the introduction of a couple of very good championship players one at CB and for me a target man type striker to give is other options. I love the investment in youth but they are all pretty much unknown entities at this level although we would hope that a couple of them take their chance and shine. If we can be in the mix by Christmas i fancy the second half of the season to be more productive as new players settle and Farke has a clear idea as to his tactics and first team choices

[norfolkngood 1,086]

Massive ask to bounce back after this season 

I worry which Farke and Webber we will Get this season 

if we fail this year and signings turn out poor again A new DOF and Head Coach is a must 

[Adelaide Canary 12]

Not a chance of a bounce back. 

My guess is somewhere 12th to 16th. The club will be OK with that and point to headwinds cause by covid, work in progress etc 

Some of the new signings look like they may be good for the future and will eventually come good but not this soon. 

People that think this team will rip the chumps to shreds.... I admire your optimism but it ain't going to happen. 

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

8 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

Massive ask to bounce back after this season 

I worry which Farke and Webber we will Get this season 

if we fail this year and signings turn out poor again A new DOF and Head Coach is a must 

Yes i agree, despite last season they still have credibility and support from the promotion season but a very poor start to the new season could bring pressure albeit having no fans there would probably buy the pair a bit more time, nothing worse than losing games and having the crowd on your back. Hopefully we will see a bright start

[seanthecanary 168]

I don't know if we will or won't bounce back next year, no one does. That's why we like football, it's often not predictable. 

Farke has a big job on his hands rebuilding the confidence of the squad though and that is key to our chances. I'm trying not to be too gloomy but it's hard. My heart thought we could survive this season, my head told me we would probably go down. I wasn't expecting us to go down quite in the manner we did though. I didn't think we would be so far from safety and I thought we would be much more competitive against teams in the bottom half of the table. In the end, we weren't. We lost home and away to many of our relegation rivals, often being comfortably beaten and that causes me concern. I knew we would concede a lot this season but I honestly thought we would score more than we did. Outside of Pukki and Cantwell, the other players just haven't contributed enough goals. The less said about the games since lock down the better because it's been woeful and I'm clutching at straws to take any positives. 

The Championship though is unpredictable and any team that gets on a run has a chance. It's all down now to whether the manager and players can pick themselves up

[Capt. Pants 4,202]

20 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Any and every season is a fresh challenge.  So no assumptions from me about how well or how badly we will do, only that it is going to be a huge challenge - as it was last time.   Neither "not going to get promoted" early in the season if we are down near the bottom, or "yay, we're going to get promoted" if we are top if there are still games to go.  It is and always will be a challenge right up to the last kick of the ball. Can we do it? Of course we can, but the dangers are clear - we have to get over this season quickly and buckle down to the new one.  i only hope transfer windows are well out of the way by the time the season starts so everyone is onboard and focussed.

The transfer window closes about a month after the season has started so no chance of that.

[cornish sam 945]

On 27/07/2020 at 10:18, hogesar said:

Nah that doesn't count now, remember how this works. The past is irrelevant. Well, that's what i've been told when bringing up our championship season. But last season, whilst also being in the past, is now relevant. Till they decided it's not relevant, which is whenever suits, really.

You've forgotten that farke's first season also counts in this logic...

 

On 27/07/2020 at 10:29, Michael Wynless Jones said:

Sorry, just can't see it if I'm honest. One things for sure failure to get promoted will mean yet another 5 year plan will have come and gone with failure 

Surely if we fail to get promoted next season there will be one more season of the 5 year plan?

@norfolkngood getting rid of both the DOF and manager totally missed the point of having a DOF in the first place. That would just be a stupid thing to do.

 

I firmly believe that we will be competing for auto at the end of next season. We have taken steps to address the problem with our central midfielders not screening the defence and giving the ball away cheaply and dangerously. We have signed a player in placheta that offers us a different option. Our players are skilful and should be able to pass through the press easier than they could in the prem. And let us not forget, whilst the league is strong this season the teams that were already haemorrhaging money to try and compete will have a significantly larger burden put on them by covid than we will so I would be surprised to see many of them spending big this summer and will hopefully see some of them selling their better players to stay afloat.... We will be. Abig fish in a small pond, the big challenge is going to be picking our players up after this season, but I have faith that we can manage that.

[hogesar 9,618]

19 hours ago, Hardhouse44 said:

Im expecting mid table mediocrity, and farke gone before Christmas. I dont see the club spending any real money and the spin doctor will give us the reason as CV 19 related.

I still believe the club is rotten at the core. 

 

Bloody hell, what on earth is the state of clubs such as :

- Cardiff

- Swansea

- Forest

- Derby

- Blackburn

- QPR

- Stoke

- Sheffield Wednesday

- Middlesbrough

- Birmingham

- Hull

- Ipswich

- Sunderland

If we can regularly get promoted to the top division in English football whilst being 'rotten at the core', what do you make of these clubs?!

[norfolkngood 1,086]

Just now, cornish sam said:

You've forgotten that farke's first season also counts in this logic...

 

Surely if we fail to get promoted next season there will be one more season of the 5 year plan?

@norfolkngood getting rid of both the DOF and manager totally missed the point of having a DOF in the first place. That would just be a stupid thing to do.

 

I firmly believe that we will be competing for auto at the end of next season. We have taken steps to address the problem with our central midfielders not screening the defence and giving the ball away cheaply and dangerously. We have signed a player in placheta that offers us a different option. Our players are skilful and should be able to pass through the press easier than they could in the prem. And let us not forget, whilst the league is strong this season the teams that were already haemorrhaging money to try and compete will have a significantly larger burden put on them by covid than we will so I would be surprised to see many of them spending big this summer and will hopefully see some of them selling their better players to stay afloat.... We will be. Abig fish in a small pond, the big challenge is going to be picking our players up after this season, but I have faith that we can manage that.

If We fail this year and the signings are Poor why would you keep a DoF that is not performing ?

after this season webber is / or should be under pressure to get results like anyone else

[cornish sam 945]

Just now, norfolkngood said:

If We fail this year and the signings are Poor why would you keep a DoF that is not performing ?

after this season webber is / or should be under pressure to get results like anyone else

Because the DoF does more than just the signings, he oversees the whole footballing structure, from the academy through to the first team. If the signings aren't working then you should look at the manager and scouts. Also, as I have said elsewhere, we can't judge the majority of the signings we have made over the last 12 months yet because they were long term purchases, the loans didn't work, some of the perms haven't worked either, but, the ones signed before the last 12 months performed amazingly and we have signed a plethora of prospects and potential that is still waiting to be realised.

[Hardhouse44 261]

19 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Bloody hell, what on earth is the state of clubs such as :

- Cardiff

- Swansea

- Forest

- Derby

- Blackburn

- QPR

- Stoke

- Sheffield Wednesday

- Middlesbrough

- Birmingham

- Hull

- Ipswich

- Sunderland

If we can regularly get promoted to the top division in English football whilst being 'rotten at the core', what do you make of these clubs?!

Maybe they are also rotten to the core.

Why is it that we must measure our aspirations only against clubs below us or in worse situations. 

The clubs you list have been poorly run im sure and nobody on here or in their right mind or who value our club is asking that we blindly follow the likes of the Stokes or Hulls who blindly spent millions with no contingency plan if the club did fail to maintain premiership status. All many wanted was to at least feel like we were trying to maintain the status.

If we are alway going to be fearful  of buying another Naismith or Wolfswinkle then we will never progress because at some stage we will have ro spend more the a paltry some on a play to progress. 

And let not forget the same owners employed the people who though that the Naismiths of this world were good buys. The same owners who employed the people who wasted money on the Duda's and the Amadou's. And make no mistake those loans that were so spectacularly bad will have cost good money.

We are not guild buy business minds or great tactical thinkers but be sentiment and gallons of red wine!

Edited July 28, 2020 by Hardhouse44

[hogesar 9,618]

10 minutes ago, Hardhouse44 said:

Maybe they are also rotten to the core.

Why is it that we must measure our aspirations only against clubs below us or in worse situations. 

The clubs you list have been poorly run im sure and nobody on here or in their right mind or who value our club is asking that we blindly follow the likes of the Stokes or Hulls who blindly spent millions with no contingency plan if the club did fail to maintain premiership status. All many wanted was to at least feel like we were trying to maintain the status.

If we are alway going to be fearful  of buying another Naismith or Wolfswinkle then we will never progress because at some stage we will have ro spend more the a paltry some on a play to progress. 

And let not forget the same owners employed the people who though that the Naismiths of this world were good buys. The same owners who employed the people who wasted money on the Duda's and the Amadou's. And make no mistake those loans that were so spectacularly bad will have cost good money.

We are not guild buy business minds or great tactical thinkers but be sentiment and gallons of red wine!

Apart from your last line I agree with the majority of what you're saying but none of that makes us 'rotten at the core'.

[norfolkngood 1,086]

19 minutes ago, cornish sam said:

Because the DoF does more than just the signings, he oversees the whole footballing structure, from the academy through to the first team. If the signings aren't working then you should look at the manager and scouts. Also, as I have said elsewhere, we can't judge the majority of the signings we have made over the last 12 months yet because they were long term purchases, the loans didn't work, some of the perms haven't worked either, but, the ones signed before the last 12 months performed amazingly and we have signed a plethora of prospects and potential that is still waiting to be realised.

Scouts Only Recommend players Webber and Farke have final say 

Yes he oversees the Football structure but if the system is not working and signings are poor the man at the top carries the can 

Webber will be off anyway as soon as he gets a better offer 

 

[seanthecanary 168]

1 minute ago, hogesar said:

Apart from your last line I agree with the majority of what you're saying but none of that makes us 'rotten at the core'.

I agree, the way we are doing things isn't perfect but they have to do what they think is best for the long term. Also, some of the clubs you listed would have been seen by many fans as the template to follow for success as a smaller club in the Premier League. I still remember the days on this forum where people would talk about Charlton and Bolton as examples of how Norwich should do things. Look where they are now. 

[sgncfc 1,223]

20 hours ago, Hardhouse44 said:

Im expecting mid table mediocrity, and farke gone before Christmas. I dont see the club spending any real money and the spin doctor will give us the reason as CV 19 related.

I still believe the club is rotten at the core. 

 

Really? You genuinely believe that people at the centre of the club are "rotten"? Why?

[sgncfc 1,223]

On a more positive note, I think we'll do OK. I don't think we'll run away with it but I think we'll be around the top 6 most of the time.

Bournemouth and Watford haven't been in the Champs for 5 years - it's changed and they haven't got the squads they will need to dominate; they will lose their best players and it could take them some time to get used to the different way of playing. Both could be top 6 but I don't see a Newcastle or even a Leeds. None of the League One clubs coming up look strong enough or wealthy enough to challenge.

Whoever doesn't go up out of Brentford and Fulham will be strong and may take one of the auto spots. It was good to get rid of Leeds and West Brom. Looking at the rest, I expect Stoke to challenge, but then I thought that before. Sheffield Weds, Derby and Forest are always capable of a good season; Swansea are rebuilding nicely; Cardiff can beat anyone on their day, as can Millwall and we know what Hughton could do at Bristol City - he knows how to get out of that league.

The one massive positive for us is that we still have a management team, a coaching team, and 25 players who have been there and done it before. There will be no surprises. I think that gives us a huge advantage and is why we will be among the favourites despite our EPL capitulation and whoever we sell on. We also have 6 or 7 new players desperate to prove themselves, more youngsters graduating to the first team and money in the bank.

Looking forward to it immensely!

[Michael Wynless Jones 161]

6 hours ago, cornish sam said:

Surely if we fail to get promoted next season there will be one more season of the 5 year plan?

@norfolkngood

No, the plan is to be established in the Premier League after a minimum of 1 successful campaign up there. Although I would suggest bar Liverpool etc nobody is really established up there 

[Hardhouse44 261]

6 hours ago, sgncfc said:

Really? You genuinely believe that people at the centre of the club are "rotten"? Why?

Because it’s being run for personal gain. Not financial but for what they get out of running a football club. The most rotten part is the spin put on things to appease the fans. 
 

I know of no club that got to the promised land where the fans would stomach being told in they were not going to attempt to stay up without actually come out and saying it directly. 
 

I don’t believe there is a professional club in the whole of Europe who would still have the manager who produced or failed to produce what Farke did still at the helm. 
 

It a pile of twisted spin put together by Webber and his team under the instructions of the board. Is Farke to blame - but he wasn’t backed - we won’t spend and risk - so do we have the resources to mount a challenge to stay in the premiership. Is all **** and spin and so many fall for it but the truth is there is no plan, no project. We simple suck it and see. 
 

No other club would have mounted that attempt at premiership survival. And yet we did and nothing is right about it. Farke’s been poor. Tactically, his stubbornness is evident. Webber has signed dross. And the board hide. We got it wrong signing the likes of a Naismith and Van wolfswinkle but equally we got it just as wrong signing nobody. 
 

Employ the right people to find the right people so that when we spend money we create assets not millstones round our neck. Our mistakes now mean we will never attempt to spend any money again! That’s failure at every level if that’s the case. And it a rotten business plan!

[FenwayFrank 2,457]

7 hours ago, Hardhouse44 said:

nobody on here or in their right mind or who value our club is asking that we blindly follow the likes of the Stokes or Hulls who blindly spent millions with no contingency plan

You sure about that ? 😉

[sgncfc 1,223]

21 minutes ago, Hardhouse44 said:

Because it’s being run for personal gain. Not financial but for what they get out of running a football club. The most rotten part is the spin put on things to appease the fans. 
 

I know of no club that got to the promised land where the fans would stomach being told in they were not going to attempt to stay up without actually come out and saying it directly. 
 

I don’t believe there is a professional club in the whole of Europe who would still have the manager who produced or failed to produce what Farke did still at the helm. 
 

It a pile of twisted spin put together by Webber and his team under the instructions of the board. Is Farke to blame - but he wasn’t backed - we won’t spend and risk - so do we have the resources to mount a challenge to stay in the premiership. Is all **** and spin and so many fall for it but the truth is there is no plan, no project. We simple suck it and see. 
 

No other club would have mounted that attempt at premiership survival. And yet we did and nothing is right about it. Farke’s been poor. Tactically, his stubbornness is evident. Webber has signed dross. And the board hide. We got it wrong signing the likes of a Naismith and Van wolfswinkle but equally we got it just as wrong signing nobody. 
 

Employ the right people to find the right people so that when we spend money we create assets not millstones round our neck. Our mistakes now mean we will never attempt to spend any money again! That’s failure at every level if that’s the case. And it a rotten business plan!

It's a point of view and well argued. I don't agree, but I sympathise with those of you desperate to stay in the Premier League. Webber/Farke and the rest of the executive team are just employees working under instructions from the Board, so you might have some good points - but though everyone says that getting out of the Championship is the hardest thing in the world to do, Norwich City have done it 3 times in their last 5 attempts. No reason why we can't do it again - and given that we now have a healthy bank account and assets of well over £100m after our one season in the EPL, if we can do it again we'll have a decent shot next time.

So, one question - if that happens, is the club still rotten, or just well run?

[Uncle Fred 526]

No chance years drifting in the championship to look forward to

this premier league season is the last we will enjoy for a very long time 

[Hardhouse44 261]

31 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

It's a point of view and well argued. I don't agree, but I sympathise with those of you desperate to stay in the Premier League. Webber/Farke and the rest of the executive team are just employees working under instructions from the Board, so you might have some good points - but though everyone says that getting out of the Championship is the hardest thing in the world to do, Norwich City have done it 3 times in their last 5 attempts. No reason why we can't do it again - and given that we now have a healthy bank account and assets of well over £100m after our one season in the EPL, if we can do it again we'll have a decent shot next time.

So, one question - if that happens, is the club still rotten, or just well run?

In answer to the question I will be delighted to see that happen and will hold up my hands and admit I’m wrong.

My fear isn’t relegation or promotion it’s mid table mediocrity for years. Why do I fear that, because football like any sport with nothing riding on it is only fun for the players. It means nothing to fans.

Why do I fear mid table mediocrity might be our fate. Because every year more teams do commit more of the money they get to obtaining promotion to the top flight. This season we’ve seen 2 of the three promoted teams stick and 2 ambitious clubs join us in the championship. They join a list of teams already ambitious for promotion to the premiership and I see a time where we fall by the wayside and then we don’t compete with that group of teams either. 
 

wanting to be a to 26 team means failure is mid table championship. I’d rather we wanted to be a top 20 side where failure means we’re right back pushing for that top 20 every time. If you see what I mean.

maybe my rotten to the core tag was a bit strong maybe misguided to the core is more apt.