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TeemuVanBasten

People being too harsh on Klose?

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Posted (edited)

I did question recently whether he was finished or just unfit, or both. Still don't know the answer. 

But lots of people seem to have decided that its definitely the former and want to see him bombed out. 

I wouldn't be so quick to write him off, he probably isn't the player he was but we're seeing a player who has had a huge injury lay off come straight back into the side in the best league in the world, probably sooner than his manager and medical staff would have liked and into a side which is void of any confidence. 

I just remember that we were writing Tettey off every summer and yet every season he'd come in and have at least one spell of good form which impressed people, and has just shown up players much younger than him in the best league in the world.

I'm not going to say we have a "young squad" as that seems to be a complete myth, but we do have a young defence and our squad probably will look younger next season. You need leaders and people with experience in that mix.

With a bit more match sharpness I think Klose could be an asset next season in the Championship as a squad player, even if its largely in the dressing room, Rhodes and Hanley mostly sat on the bench last season (well, second half for Rhodes anyway) yet Farke and Webber both considered them really important to the squad. 

Granted his salary probably doesn't reflect the status of Championship squad player, and he's far too injury prone, he's probably on more money than he's now worth, but I'm not convinced he'll look out of the depth in that league if he can stay fit! At least willing to wait and see and give him a chance, he's not a player who has ever been blessed with loads of pace so how much could that injury really impact him unless it reoccurs? Seems more likely that his problems are psychological / confidence related? 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten
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I refuse to judge him based on his recent form, he wasn’t supposed to be back. See at the beginning of next season unless we get a decent offer.

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I don’t think any player should be written off for next season if we are just using the post lockdown games as a measure. Every such player should be given the chance of a clean slate and to wash their hands of this terrible run. 

I agree with Klose coming under harsh fire, certainly. It appears the players who have emerged / featured more prominently during this string of performances have come under disproportionate criticism, ending up as the flag bearers when really it has been the whole team and coaching staff who have fallen short.

Drmic and Rupp the other two examples of such players. And while I do agree that both have been really poor, I don’t think it is fair for them to bear the entire weight of our failings - and I hope they are allowed a fair shot by the fans next season if Farke instils his faith in them. 

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Harsh but fair. 

Zimbo's had injuries all season yet came back 2nd half against Burnley as though he had never been away.

One injury too many for Klose. He can't get off the ground now. Might be a squad asset but it's a lot of salary tied up when we could get better value elsewhere.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Harsh but fair. 

Zimbo's had injuries all season yet came back 2nd half against Burnley as though he had never been away.

One injury too many for Klose. He can't get off the ground now. Might be a squad asset but it's a lot of salary tied up when we could get better value elsewhere.

How exactly would be "untie" that money though, if he's on far more money than a player of his current ability should be then unless you find a clueless mug somewhere to take over that contract or he for some odd reason voluntarily takes a big pay cut to leave then that money is tied up regardless.

With it unlikely that we'd be able to shift without paying up a lot of his contract we may as well just hope that he looks OK in the Championship. Same may apply to Drmic, unfortunately, I can't see takers. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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People have started saying Raggett is a better player so yes, people are being unfair. Either that or football-stupid.

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The thing is, if you look at all of our defenders since post COVID, who HAS been any good? How can Godfrey be predicted to be 20mill+ target for top Prem teams and Klose not even be good enough for us in the Champ? The whole team has been useless apart from Krul so how certain players can be singled out for particularly harsh criticism is beyond me. Plus Klose at least has the excuse of coming back early from injury.

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After a big injury, there can be lasting effects on muscle mobility, running gait, kicking technique; hell, most people know that if a player misses the majority of pre-season they probably won't truly get up to speed until well after january, if at all. Taking age into account and how vital athleticism is at this level, I think expecting him to look good coming into a side that can't defend when all 11 starters are fit is a bit unfair.

Me personally, I think being as he wasn't due to play again this season without the COVID break he had already been told he was one of the ones we were going to 'refresh' come summer so likely wasn't racing to get back match-ready. I don't think he expected to play PL level again and IMO the utter anguish in his body language when we concede shows a man who really really wants to be up to standard, but knows he can't.

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Timm didn't want to come back and didn't expect to have to come back. He thought that the Premier League would be too fast and too demanding for him. 

In the circumstances he has shown what a brilliant character he is, and I fully expect Daniel or Stuart to explain this once the season has finished. He truly put the team ahead of himself. He could easily have said he wasn't right, but he responded like the man he is.

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None of us can say what Timm's body was going thru but Timm himself,  but to be out all season then to have no choice but play a string of games so close together like that was immense.  Injury has robbed him of playing  way to few Prem games since he signed for City. For anyone to write him off is absurd. He loves the football club, loves the area and gives his all, even when its plain to see it was a hell of a stretch to get his body playing thru all these games.

I for one hopes he stays injury free for the whole of the coming season, if so i dont  think he will ever be to far from  being in  most match day squads. Most City fans yearned  for Timm to extend his stay last year and he did so, when probably he could have gone back home to play his football.  He still has a big role to play as far as im concerned.

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8 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I did question recently whether he was finished or just unfit, or both. Still don't know the answer. 

But lots of people seem to have decided that its definitely the former and want to see him bombed out. 

I wouldn't be so quick to write him off, he probably isn't the player he was but we're seeing a player who has had a huge injury lay off come straight back into the side in the best league in the world, probably sooner than his manager and medical staff would have liked and into a side which is void of any confidence. 

I just remember that we were writing Tettey off every summer and yet every season he'd come in and have at least one spell of good form which impressed people, and has just shown up players much younger than him in the best league in the world.

I'm not going to say we have a "young squad" as that seems to be a complete myth, but we do have a young defence and our squad probably will look younger next season. You need leaders and people with experience in that mix.

With a bit more match sharpness I think Klose could be an asset next season in the Championship as a squad player, even if its largely in the dressing room, Rhodes and Hanley mostly sat on the bench last season (well, second half for Rhodes anyway) yet Farke and Webber both considered them really important to the squad. 

Granted his salary probably doesn't reflect the status of Championship squad player, and he's far too injury prone, he's probably on more money than he's now worth, but I'm not convinced he'll look out of the depth in that league if he can stay fit! At least willing to wait and see and give him a chance, he's not a player who has ever been blessed with loads of pace so how much could that injury really impact him unless it reoccurs? Seems more likely that his problems are psychological / confidence related? 

Given his injury record at the club and high wages, it would be best if he found another club. He’s a likeable guy, but isn’t playing well and liable to get injured again! 

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I don’t think Klose’s wages are that high.

He signed a new contract last summer when it was pretty clear he would be 4th choice centre back. Also all contracts signed last summer had a 50% wage reduction on relegation. 

I think he’ll stay on next season, but in a more marginal role. 

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4 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

I don’t think Klose’s wages are that high.

He signed a new contract last summer when it was pretty clear he would be 4th choice centre back. Also all contracts signed last summer had a 50% wage reduction on relegation. 

I think he’ll stay on next season, but in a more marginal role. 

Yep, that's how I see it. An experienced international centre-half will be excellent for bringing along a youngster like Famewo, presuming that Famewo is getting seriously looked at to make the step up (or indeed McCullum, despite the different defensive position). As others have said, it's clear Klose loves it here, and I'd be reluctant to cast aside players with such affection for the club if their form isn't great for now. Especially with the numerous mitigating circumstances involved in getting him patched up and thrown onto the field for such a run of games.

Klose's form at the moment appears, to me at least, merely a victim of our latest defensive injury crisis. We'd need most of the defence back before we can start drawing conclusions on whether he's finished or not. To me, it looks like he's either not quite fully recovered but is gutting it out as best he can, or psychologically is holding back a bit as he knows he's on a run of games and has to pace himself otherwise the team's in even greater trouble without him.

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8 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

He signed a new contract last summer when it was pretty clear he would be 4th choice centre back.

Would have thought we went into this season considering Hanley our 4th choice centre back to be honest, after he played just 7 games last season and almost left to a Championship side in the summer? 

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I'd be extremely surprised if we have the same 4 CB by the time the season starts again. Prior to the injury and this/last season I would have rated him as one of our starters, however if think currently Zim and Godfrey are the best defenders at the club. Hanley was nearly moved on last summer to blackburn, I'm curious to see if we have a freshen up and look to promote one from the academy and sign another, whilst potentially moving Hanley and Klose on. Guess it comes down to how fit they can both be in time for September and if Godfrey is sold.

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Posted (edited)

I do think it's the end of Klose but I love him still. He's been a really good servant for us, but it's one injury too many. It's got to take a toll on him mentally too. He didn't jump ship when we last went down. Nobody can argue that he wasn't a good signing for us. I hope he doesn't get too much hate because being thrown deep into premiership games when you've barely played... that's harsh.

Edited by Michael Starr

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I thought he looked pretty good in the Burnley game - although prior to that he had really been playing his way back to form and fitness and it showed.

If fit he's more than capable of helping us next season.

The biggest issue we have at CB is fitness and keeping injury free not ability.

We need to start the season with 4 fit CB players. 

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I do not seek to criticize as i think he is a decent guy and has tried to do his best for the club. How long has he been here about 5 years ? He is tall but not a big powerful CB and has always struggled somewhat when up against big powerful players regardless of the division.  I think he was at his most impressive in his first season and for a while his signing looked that it may have kept us up that year. His first season in the championship he was bullied and it was quite a shock for him, thereafter he performed better. His injury record speaks for itself it is poor, thats not his fault just, just a statement of fact, a shame but regardless of which division he is in he will be fortunate to play more than 50% of the games. This season he has looked bang average, but lets be fair he has been injured for must of it and only came back because we had run out of CBs and he had not got any match fitness and was now playing in a squad low on confidence and losing games. I think on paper he has 2 more seasons with us and it will be interesting to see if he can get any fitter and improve his performances, if the answer is yes then he will challenge for a place if not he will struggle for game time and will probably still be one of the biggest earners. He must be a season or two away from retirement so we have probably seen the best of him even if that best was a bit of a mixed bag

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You can only critique on what you see. And he has not been anywhere near good enough for the EPL. Remember we were worried he might leave after the last relegation. It doesn't take long to be over the hill for a certain standard.

However, his ability to bring it out from the back in the Championship winning season means he could still do a job.

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Saw the pic gallery earler today of our new Polish guy, you can see in one pic Timm, back to the camera,  roaring out his infectious laugh and making Przemek laugh to. Thats  big Timm, a great lovable character that seems to have a  big influence on those around him. This season is almost done thank goodness and im really wishing Timm a great season ahead...at least for starters to stay injury free. His role to as one of the senior experienced guys around the club is important.

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4 hours ago, Bonzo said:

I thought he looked pretty good in the Burnley game - although prior to that he had really been playing his way back to form and fitness and it showed.

If fit he's more than capable of helping us next season.

The biggest issue we have at CB is fitness and keeping injury free not ability.

We need to start the season with 4 fit CB players. 

I'd be inclined to say we need five, especially if Farke is thinking of going three centre-halves on a more regular basis.

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