Farke his strengths and weaknesses

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

Firstly i cannot help but like the Guy, he always seems pleasant and very dignified and honest. As Webber does the signings he cannot be compared to past managers as he does not make the transfer decisions he works with what he is Given

 His biggest strength for me is to give players a chance in particular youth , i do not believe that a group of young players starting with Maddison would have developed in such a good way if he had not been at the helm. add to that he also was willing to give chances to people like Zimmermann a footballing nobody when we got him. Last season after a slow first season his attacking philosophy was wonderful to see.

His weaknesses IMO are an inability to coach a side to stop the opposition play, he insists on  by and large the same way of playing no matter who the opposition is and  the wheels have come off big time this season. It looks good when it comes off naive when week in week out it does not. In that regard i wonder if he has an inability to learn from mistakes or is so strong willed he will not be knocked off course with his footballing philosophy.

Next season his attributes and shortcomings will be tested to the limit and will decide if it is his last season with  us or a bounce back. The Norwich style is much better known know, championship teams can work us out as easily as PL and he needs to develop plan B and C. Also how well can he motivate his youngsters after a season of disappointment has he got the credibility in the tank and this may be an even bigger ask with some of the older players. I really hope he does well he needs to get points on the board early this coming season though

[Number9 272]

2 hours ago, Yorkshire Canary said:

Firstly i cannot help but like the Guy, he always seems pleasant and very dignified and honest. As Webber does the signings he cannot be compared to past managers as he does not make the transfer decisions he works with what he is Given

 His biggest strength for me is to give players a chance in particular youth , i do not believe that a group of young players starting with Maddison would have developed in such a good way if he had not been at the helm. add to that he also was willing to give chances to people like Zimmermann a footballing nobody when we got him. Last season after a slow first season his attacking philosophy was wonderful to see.

His weaknesses IMO are an inability to coach a side to stop the opposition play, he insists on  by and large the same way of playing no matter who the opposition is and  the wheels have come off big time this season. It looks good when it comes off naive when week in week out it does not. In that regard i wonder if he has an inability to learn from mistakes or is so strong willed he will not be knocked off course with his footballing philosophy.

Next season his attributes and shortcomings will be tested to the limit and will decide if it is his last season with  us or a bounce back. The Norwich style is much better known know, championship teams can work us out as easily as PL and he needs to develop plan B and C. Also how well can he motivate his youngsters after a season of disappointment has he got the credibility in the tank and this may be an even bigger ask with some of the older players. I really hope he does well he needs to get points on the board early this coming season though

Any proof of this urban myth?

[Number9 272]

If you LISTEN to Farke, just last week he was speaking of many phone calls with Webber regarding transfer targets.

This also extends to the scouting dept who have input.

Stop perpetuating things which aren't true.

Other than that, I agree with much of your post.

[Yellow and Green 334]

5 hours ago, Number9 said:

Any proof of this urban myth?

Listening to Webber and Farke, at almost any point over the last three seasons.

Just last week, Webber said something along the lines of "Don't blame the manager or the players, blame me. I'm the one who assembled the squad. We've gone to war without a gun and guess what, we've got shot."

Some of the signings will be Farke's reccommendations (Zimmermann), but the OP is right, it isn't his fault that it's been men vs boys this season.

[Yellow and Green 334]

7 hours ago, Yorkshire Canary said:

Firstly i cannot help but like the Guy, he always seems pleasant and very dignified and honest. As Webber does the signings he cannot be compared to past managers as he does not make the transfer decisions he works with what he is Given

 His biggest strength for me is to give players a chance in particular youth , i do not believe that a group of young players starting with Maddison would have developed in such a good way if he had not been at the helm. add to that he also was willing to give chances to people like Zimmermann a footballing nobody when we got him. Last season after a slow first season his attacking philosophy was wonderful to see.

His weaknesses IMO are an inability to coach a side to stop the opposition play, he insists on  by and large the same way of playing no matter who the opposition is and  the wheels have come off big time this season. It looks good when it comes off naive when week in week out it does not. In that regard i wonder if he has an inability to learn from mistakes or is so strong willed he will not be knocked off course with his footballing philosophy.

Next season his attributes and shortcomings will be tested to the limit and will decide if it is his last season with  us or a bounce back. The Norwich style is much better known know, championship teams can work us out as easily as PL and he needs to develop plan B and C. Also how well can he motivate his youngsters after a season of disappointment has he got the credibility in the tank and this may be an even bigger ask with some of the older players. I really hope he does well he needs to get points on the board early this coming season though

I agree with much of this, however I think a lot of his negatives can be put down to a lack of quality/options in the squad.

His attacking ethos is great, however the players have let us down - we've made so many individual mistakes this year, often leaving us exposed on the counter.

Many fans have said that he is inflexible... this season, our defensive injuries have meant that we have to play four at the back. We have had no real back up to Pukki, so our playing style has to suit the way that he plays (through balls).

This lack of a plan b has seriously hampered us and teams sussed us out the second time they played us. Again, I think it is the lack of options in the squad, rather than Farke's decisions.

Zonal marking - we have one of the smallest squads in the league. It can work but we need the players to do their jobs.

Late subs - I get frustrated when it clearly needs changing, and he leaves it until the 83rd minute to make his first sub. Having said that, he has been more proactive recently. 

Crosses - We never cross the ball into the box, yet concede a shed load of goals when it's us defending them. I don't know if it is Farke's philosophy or just that Pukki doesnt score headers, but it is clearly a dimension that we need to add to our attacking play.

In general, I agree with Webber, he is an excellent coach who hasn't had the quality required at his disposal. I'm surprised that he hasn't been more blunt about this in his press confrences.

[TheGunnShow 5,910]

3 hours ago, Yellow and Green said:

I agree with much of this, however I think a lot of his negatives can be put down to a lack of quality/options in the squad.

His attacking ethos is great, however the players have let us down - we've made so many individual mistakes this year, often leaving us exposed on the counter.

Many fans have said that he is inflexible... this season, our defensive injuries have meant that we have to play four at the back. We have had no real back up to Pukki, so our playing style has to suit the way that he plays (through balls).

This lack of a plan b has seriously hampered us and teams sussed us out the second time they played us. Again, I think it is the lack of options in the squad, rather than Farke's decisions.

Zonal marking - we have one of the smallest squads in the league. It can work but we need the players to do their jobs.

Late subs - I get frustrated when it clearly needs changing, and he leaves it until the 83rd minute to make his first sub. Having said that, he has been more proactive recently. 

Crosses - We never cross the ball into the box, yet concede a shed load of goals when it's us defending them. I don't know if it is Farke's philosophy or just that Pukki doesnt score headers, but it is clearly a dimension that we need to add to our attacking play.

In general, I agree with Webber, he is an excellent coach who hasn't had the quality required at his disposal. I'm surprised that he hasn't been more blunt about this in his press confrences.

The bit I put in bold nails it. We're allowed a squad of 25, and for large parts of this season we've been running on fumes with defenders missing. What sometimes gets forgotten is that defenders are also the first line of attack. Without a solid enough base, you can't be gung-ho.

A few seem to have said on here in other threads that Farke might have been eyeing up three centre-halves and two wing-backs. That would make a lot of sense considering that Hernandez is really our only out-and-out winger as obviously with wing-backs, there's no need for a winger as well. We've had that many injuries to centre-halves though that he's had to go four at the back. This possible signing of Placheta for me shows he's thinking of two fast wingers, so can tell the full-backs to stay back a bit more and be more solid.

Another thing is that our strength in depth last season in the Championship showed that practically everyone was replaceable, with the probable exception of Buendia when we had our run of draws late on, which I think was after his red card against QPR. Such uniformity is rare - often teams will have a couple of outstanding players who can easily make the leap (Grealish at Villa, for example), but little else. We had a lot of very good Championship players, but few have convincingly made the leap up.

[Number9 272]

6 hours ago, Yellow and Green said:

Listening to Webber and Farke, at almost any point over the last three seasons.

Just last week, Webber said something along the lines of "Don't blame the manager or the players, blame me. I'm the one who assembled the squad. We've gone to war without a gun and guess what, we've got shot."

Some of the signings will be Farke's reccommendations (Zimmermann), but the OP is right, it isn't his fault that it's been men vs boys this season.

The recruitment process is not one persons decision. 

Farke doesn't buy players 

Webber doesn't buy players 

Chief Scout doesn't buy players 

 

They are a group who discuss it together and when they've reached agreement, then they buy a player.

 

[lake district canary 4,531]

"No plan B" is just an easy way of saying we didn't play well.  They try all sorts of little tweaks to improve but the basic idea - Plan A - is the way he wants us to play. So it is plan A or nothing - because Plan A is seen as the best way to approach any game. 

It means everyone knows what they have to do, it is a club wide way of playing and as we know, at it's best is scintillating to watch and can beat anyone.  That it hasn't been at it's best enough this season is obvious, but going to some "plan B" is not an option. 

It is the only plan and it's a good one - all we need to do is to keep working on it and improving it.

[Number9 272]

Just now, lake district canary said:

"No plan B" is just an easy way of saying we didn't play well.  They try all sorts of little tweaks to improve but the basic idea - Plan A - is the way he wants us to play. So it is plan A or nothing - because Plan A is seen as the best way to approach any game. 

It means everyone knows what they have to do, it is a club wide way of playing and as we know, at it's best is scintillating to watch and can beat anyone.  That it hasn't been at it's best enough this season is obvious, but going to some "plan B" is not an option. 

It is the only plan and it's a good one - all we need to do is to keep working on it and improving it.

That's what Farke has said too.

I refer you to the League table. 

[Hardhouse44 261]

1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

"No plan B" is just an easy way of saying we didn't play well.  They try all sorts of little tweaks to improve but the basic idea - Plan A - is the way he wants us to play. So it is plan A or nothing - because Plan A is seen as the best way to approach any game. 

It means everyone knows what they have to do, it is a club wide way of playing and as we know, at it's best is scintillating to watch and can beat anyone.  That it hasn't been at it's best enough this season is obvious, but going to some "plan B" is not an option. 

It is the only plan and it's a good one - all we need to do is to keep working on it and improving it.

Thats utter drivel. 

And if so shows a ignorance and or arrogance way beyond anything I would ever call acceptable. 
 

I you were there! You would have seen time and time again this season alone opposition teams come out after the break with very different set up and styles of play which then reaped them ultimate rewards.

Our very pig headed stubbornness to only play one way cost us this season and will cost us goal after goal against again next season.  Teams figure out we are predictable and rigidly so. They revert to a plan B and take the spoils.

Only makes me believe more that Farke has to go now. 

[lake district canary 4,531]

7 minutes ago, Hardhouse44 said:

Thats utter drivel. And if so shows a ignorance and or arrogance way beyond anything I would ever call acceptable. 
I you were there! You would have seen time and time again this season alone opposition teams come out after the break with very different set up and styles of play which then reaped them ultimate rewards.Our very pig headed stubbornness to only play one way cost us this season and will cost us goal after goal against again next season.  Teams figure out we are predictable and rigidly so. They revert to a plan B and take the spoils.Only makes me believe more that Farke has to go now. 

Your continued beligerence towards me makes you look very dumb....of course I've seen how other teams have played against us and how they coped with our style.  Teams had worked us out last season too, but we had just enough to get over the line. This season we lost our way very early on.....not through playing the same way, but through injuries.  Godfrey was the only fit CB at one point and he played several of those matches with an injury.  Any momentum we had was lost very early on - and disappeared totally during the lockdown. 

The point in the way we play is that it is the best way to utilise our resources - and to play any differently would see us in an even worse position - we could put 10 men behind the ball for a whole match and still lose.  So we have to play our way to succeed.  The reason we haven't succeeded is that we did not play our way well enough - for all the reasons that have been gone over again and again on here.

It's easy to say "have a plan B", but really in the cold light of day there is only ever one plan - to find a way of beating the opposition - and that, for Norwich and it's limited resources is to find a way of playing that is unplayable - a bit like Swansea a few seasons ago.  I'm all for it - stick to your guns, play with a cohesive style with a spirit, energy and togetherness that other teams can't match - after all, spending loads on players doesn't guarantee success and often teams that do that lack the unity and togetherness that we have.  It's a combination that at it's best can work. We might need to get better players in and develop it a bit.....but then that is the plan and has been from day one of Farke's time here.

 

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

Thing is, we did see a Plan B when we were in the championship - often when chasing a game we would revert to a back 5, and I think we may have experimented with this formation even more in the prem as clearly our 'Plan A' 4-2-3-1 style was failing pretty badly. But unfortunately we never had the resources to even try it.

Although perhaps if we were that serious about this approach as an alternative, we would've looked at another CB option in the transfer market - even playing just 4 at the back it seemed a bit of a risk to start the season with only 4 CBs, given one of which was already injured and another very injury prone!

[sgncfc 1,221]

Guardiola only plays one way. Klopp only plays one way. They have assembled squads over several years to play to their way. They have naturally gravitated to the clubs with the most money so they can afford the best players for their systems. Mourinho, on the other hand, is a manager who plays several different systems but without a huge squad of variously talented players is very much rebuilding.

 LDC is right when he says that the entire ethos of the club is focussed on that one way of playing - you won't see our under 18 or under 23 sides playing any differently. Results are very much secondary at the youth levels, it is all about performance levels and individual stats. That is of course supposed to translate to success for the first team.

It falls apart when the opposition have better players than you do, or set up specifically to disrupt us. It is telling that we have done better against the sides who also play "our way", it's just that they are better at it. This is why those sides are the ones looking at our better players, because they think they could fit easily and be developed. Personally I don't think any of them are yet good enough, 

We are shopping at a different level, but the players now being signed are a step up on the German Fourth Division or comeback kings we have looked at before. Our steps are a lot smaller, but if this is a long term project, you have to give it the time to succeed. 

We all criticised Neill for losing his faith after the 6-2 at Newcastle and changing the way he set the team up, which meant getting a team relegated who should have stayed up. I can't criticise Farke for staying true to his way of playing when this team was never really good enough to stay up anyway.

For those who say we have gone backwards, in the cold light of day I disagree. I hate the humiliation of the last 10 games as much as anyone. It is embarrassing not being able to compete in the EPL and Webber/Farke will have felt that as much as anyone. 

However, we have some real positives - a goalkeeper restored to his best days; a hurting squad determined to put it right; several player assets worth a lot of money.

[Hardhouse44 261]

17 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Your continued beligerence towards me makes you look very dumb....of course I've seen how other teams have played against us and how they coped with our style.  Teams had worked us out last season too, but we had just enough to get over the line. This season we lost our way very early on.....not through playing the same way, but through injuries.  Godfrey was the only fit CB at one point and he played several of those matches with an injury.  Any momentum we had was lost very early on - and disappeared totally during the lockdown. 

The point in the way we play is that it is the best way to utilise our resources - and to play any differently would see us in an even worse position - we could put 10 men behind the ball for a whole match and still lose.  So we have to play our way to succeed.  The reason we haven't succeeded is that we did not play our way well enough - for all the reasons that have been gone over again and again on here.

It's easy to say "have a plan B", but really in the cold light of day there is only ever one plan - to find a way of beating the opposition - and that, for Norwich and it's limited resources is to find a way of playing that is unplayable - a bit like Swansea a few seasons ago.  I'm all for it - stick to your guns, play with a cohesive style with a spirit, energy and togetherness that other teams can't match - after all, spending loads on players doesn't guarantee success and often teams that do that lack the unity and togetherness that we have.  It's a combination that at it's best can work. We might need to get better players in and develop it a bit.....but then that is the plan and has been from day one of Farke's time here.

 

I think you’ll find there’s a long list of people who look “Dumb” on here and if a vote was taken your name would top that list. I’ve told you before I don’t care about you only MY club. And I honestly think people like you are liken almost to a conscientious objector. To para phrase “All it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing”

You say we’d be even worse. That in the perameters of this current campaign is impossible. We are rock bottom we have broken records for poor performance and all you ever go on about is bad luck and lose of momentum. 
 

“The reason we haven’t succeeded is we did not play our way well enough” that has to be the single most ridiculous comments ever posted. They you go another record broken.

This is supposed to be a top flight professional outfit. If circumstances chance you have to change with then, not curse your luck, and just roll over. Adapt, tinker, do anything but what we have done. Grizzled about injuries to players who are much of a muchness whilst letting other parts of our game become predictable and easy to counter.

I’m sorry but I’d never want to go in to battle with you. Waving white flags before a bullet is shot. But only after you’ve spent them whole build up to the battle preaching to everyone how you’re going to kick ar$e. 
 

Everything you post is just drivel to draw attention to yourself. I don’t even think you know what you believe. 

[lake district canary 4,531]

22 minutes ago, Hardhouse44 said:

 I don’t care about you only MY club.

Adapt, tinker, do anything but what we have done.

I've left out the most of the personal stuff".....not much left is there?

Adaapt and tinker".......what do you think Farke has been doing? He's been doing that all season - he's had to given the injuries situation!    People like you all the same....if you don't get what you want you want something different, rather than work with what you've got to improve it.  "Chuck it away, it's not working" is the mantra, well real life - and professional football - does not always work like that. 

.....oh, it's MY club too. Get over it.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Can we stop making excuses for the club.

We were well bottom before the break and cut adrift after.

Injuries happen to every club, and to be honest Zimbo looks the only real loss. Klose has come back and is at best dreadful. Yes Byram but its marginal between him and Lewis.

We have tried a combination of each and every player in midfield and we have been second best every game in that department. And that is where we have suffered all season. We are less physical, slower and less accurate with our control and passing. Blimey, we have had people post how wonderful MacLean has done in the air. Pardon?

Pukki scored a hatful last season because we created a lot more chances. This season, halfway into it and the goals dried up because we made less chances. And with that, his form went as well.

Our substitutions puzzle most people and since lockdown when five are allowed we still stuck to only changing things after an hour.

So there are DF's weaknesses. Stubborness to a tactic within a system.

The positives are he does like to play the game we mostly all enjoy. What more do you have to say about that? That is everything.

[Hardhouse44 261]

9 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I've left out the most of the personal stuff".....not much left is there?

Adaapt and tinker".......what do you think Farke has been doing? He's been doing that all season - he's had to given the injuries situation!    People like you all the same....if you don't get what you want you want something different, rather than work with what you've got to improve it.  "Chuck it away, it's not working" is the mantra, well real life - and professional football - does not always work like that. 

.....oh, it's MY club too. Get over it.

Of course if I don’t get what I want I want something different! Jesus that 2 for 2.

Only a fool wouldn’t. Life is about striving for the best you can get. Never settling for second best. Desire, dreams, drive, ambition, strength, ruthlessness where required. 
 

If it’s not working of course chuck it away and find something that does work. 
 

Look cards on the table time here. I’ve seen nothing this season that I believe shows we’ve improved, moved on or even attempted to adapt to the situation. I can’t see the bulk of decent players, the Emi’s, Cantwells, Pukkis, being here next season and I believe wholeheartedly that what we recruit is on a very try you luck basis. It only take a few unlucky rolls of that dice and we are sitting in the Championship with a bang average squad of also rans. 
I also 100% don’t believe in any great project or plan. It’s all spin to help keep the status quo. They have to feed the fans of a team who have done naff all and broken the clubs records for $hiteness some bull or sabres start to rattle to loudly.

We will continue to do under Delia what we have, get lucky from time to time but progression and longevity at a higher level will. Never come under this regime. 
 

I don’t rate Farke, or Webber. I do believe we are a club big enough and with a history to warrant investment and a premiership status. I do believe Delia is holding us back. 
 

You don’t. You may think you’re happier than me because you’re content. But it’s the hunt that excites most people in life. The urge to do better to be more. So I’ll keep going to every game (CV19 allowing) and I’ll keep wanting more, better and change, because that what life is about. 

[lake district canary 4,531]

40 minutes ago, Hardhouse44 said:

You may think you’re happier than me because you’re content. But it’s the hunt that excites most people in life. The urge to do better to be more.

Who says I'm content?  I feel about as bad about the end of this season as any season I can remember.  My version of hunting - in terms of football - is hunting for a successful long term formula - something that only continuity and development can bring, like in the 70's 80's and early 90s, from John Bond onwards with every appointment after him coming from within the club. 

We have imo a very strong and stable situation at the club - everything is in place for us to develop, finances improving, good player values, good facilities, yet you want something different. Fair enough, that is your view, you think change will bring something better - but there is no evidence for that - unfortunately, football isn't that predictable. 

The only situation I would say might change my mind is if we end up relegated to League 1 and could not get decent players, but at the moment, the jury is out - can Farke carry on like in his first season and whether he can get us up and running as he did last time in the championship. He deserves that chance - of course he does - and if he succeeds then he and us will get another chance in the PL - this time with a bit more money to spend and a bit more experience as a group to give it a better shot next time.  If he doesn't succeed, or at least get us near the top of the championship over the next two years, then yes, maybe time for a change.

This season has been pants for so many reasons, best - imo - is to write it off, regroup and go again. The project - and it is a project, at least for Webber and Farke, will run it's course and we will see where we are then. Two years with the same set up and then we will know for sure.  The one thing I am sure is that losing Webber and Farke at this moment in time would be folly, like throwing away all the good work that has been done over the last three years to sort the club out.  Same with Delia/MJW selling up - not now, we have something in place that still has to run it's course. If it works, then all good we can carry on with a successful formula, if it doesn't then change will happen in it's own time.

I much prefer discussing football without the personal stuff and am quite reasonable too when it comes down to it. You may not agree with me, but discussing is much better than just slagging each other off. Peace.

Edited July 22, 2020 by lake district canary