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Kenny McLean = the new Russel Martin

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Strikes me that kenny has become the new Russ. Loved by the management and owners, bigged up as a character, and - the annoying bit-  never dropped even when performances are poor and he adds little to the team. 

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Mr Pointy man, he should be charged for a season ticket, just a spectator who gets to run around on the pitch. 

Must be a bed warmer for Farke 

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By the new Russell Martin you mean the main scapegoat, a better player than a lot realise. 

In the mid-80s I recall Mike Phelan being very underrated by supporters - Ken Brown came out and said he did a lot that supporters don’t notice.  He clearly had something as went on to play for Man U and England.

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2 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

By the new Russell Martin you mean the main scapegoat, a better player than a lot realise. 

In the mid-80s I recall Mike Phelan being very underrated by supporters - Ken Brown came out and said he did a lot that supporters don’t notice.  He clearly had something as went on to play for Man U and England.

Are you suggesting Kenny will go on to play for Man Utd? If not what is your point exactly? 

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Don’t want to speak on Branson’s behalf but I think he’s pointing out that some on here don’t see, or don’t want to see the good stuff that Kenny does

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7 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

By the new Russell Martin you mean the main scapegoat, a better player than a lot realise. 

In the mid-80s I recall Mike Phelan being very underrated by supporters - Ken Brown came out and said he did a lot that supporters don’t notice.  He clearly had something as went on to play for Man U and England.

Farke regularly expresses sentiments very similar to that regarding our supporters.

These days though, the games are covered by numerous cameras, fans are probably more knowledgeable about game play than ever before and have access to stats about every aspect of the game. 

 

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If you read stats and understand them number 9 you would have him as one of our best players so that is a strange one to bring up.

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Yes interesting piece, think farke says that he is the most complete midfielder player on the team. Or as I would say he isnt great at any of the key parts that I warrant in that position.

I see what he is saying, leitner is the best and tempo, vrancic at set pieces, tettey as a shield. But what would I say Kenny is best at? I dont think he is, he reminds me of a peter grant, some will hate this but gary holt. Always wanted mulryne and  Francis as that midfield duo.

We can get a midfielder and defenders who are better at defensive headers than kenny but add more to the game.

Therefore for me Kenny is very replaceable as we need to bring in players who are better than what we have. He is not the best at any topic for Melvin particular when out of possession he is worse for me.

I am much more excited with the young midfield options we have in the wings and new signings in that key area.

McLean is a squad player if we want to move forward.

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2 minutes ago, Number9 said:

Farke regularly expresses sentiments very similar to that regarding our supporters.

These days though, the games are covered by numerous cameras, fans are probably more knowledgeable about game play than ever before and have access to stats about every aspect of the game. 

 

True that there,are more cameras , angles, coverage and stats. None of which makes the slightest difference if the person watching has already made up their mind and is not actually technically and tactically aware. Simplistic snubs of Pickleos very rational post only confirms what Ken Brown and DF have said.  

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, smooth said:

Yes interesting piece, think farke says that he is the most complete midfielder player on the team. Or as I would say he isnt great at any of the key parts that I warrant in that position.

I see what he is saying, leitner is the best and tempo, vrancic at set pieces, tettey as a shield. But what would I say Kenny is best at? I dont think he is, he reminds me of a peter grant, some will hate this but gary holt.

I think McLean is very average myself but haven't you answered your own question? The point is that he is ok at everything, Vrancic no pace, Leitner can't tackle or score. Etc. It's not about what those players are best at, it's about their significant weaknesses. 

Also, if you can't see what Gary Holt offered that side then no helping you really. That's precisely the type of physicality and engine we could really do with right now! Mulryne didn't invest enough in his fitness to start every week, drank more than he trained. 

But personally I think Farke is bigging up McLean because he wants to encourage West Ham to firm up their alleged interest. Or encourage other suitors.  

Isn't a good idea to slag off players that you want somebody else to buy from you is it. Been to a car showroom lately? They'd have a good go at convincing you that a Renault is as reliable as a Toyota if it helped them get a sale. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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11 minutes ago, Well b back said:

If you read stats and understand them number 9 you would have him as one of our best players so that is a strange one to bring up.

These days we do have information about the whole game and individual players. 

If someone read stats, they may see McLean as one of our best players, but that is where your 'understanding' comes in.

Reading a stat and seeing how that is achieved on the field of play can give you a view on a player.

You can pass the ball to a player who is surrounded by the opposition and has no hope of developing the play,  but hey! I've got another pass on my list. 

You can jog back after losing the ball and watch the opposition score whilst pointing at everyone else,  but hey! I've covered lots of ground on my list.

 

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Kenny has done pretty well for a '500k player  from aberdeen'.... are there better out there somewhere? Yes. Could we afford them at the time we bought Kenny,?not convinced. I bet anyone a tenner to Nuttyos funds that we dont lose money on kenny when he goes. 

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5 minutes ago, Number9 said:

These days we do have information about the whole game and individual players. 

If someone read stats, they may see McLean as one of our best players, but that is where your 'understanding' comes in.

Reading a stat and seeing how that is achieved on the field of play can give you a view on a player.

You can pass the ball to a player who is surrounded by the opposition and has no hope of developing the play,  but hey! I've got another pass on my list. 

You can jog back after losing the ball and watch the opposition score whilst pointing at everyone else,  but hey! I've covered lots of ground on my list.

 

That’s not what the players that I used to speak to thought. They thought he was vital to the team. 

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Kenny is a versatile player, good in the air, good left foot and actually pretty good at set pieces, but rarely gets the chance because others have - or are supposed to have - more quality so he is down the list to take them.  The header against Man City was top class, absolutely top class.

He fits in the role he has been given very well on the left, not a role that catches they eye that much, but important for the team.

 

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36 minutes ago, Well b back said:

If you read stats and understand them number 9 you would have him as one of our best players so that is a strange one to bring up.

Can you put a link up to the stat site you use please? 

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29 minutes ago, Well b back said:

That’s not what the players that I used to speak to thought. They thought he was vital to the team. 

I don't speak regularly to the players you USED to speak to, however, I am able to watch and consider what all the players do. 

You see when we watch a game it's not just looking at any single player running around on their own. They share the pitch with 21 other players and suffer comparison with those players too.

 

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I don't think he's performed great since lockdown but it's quite abundantly clear why he's in the team ahead of others.

He's better in the air, and we have very few players who can win aerial battles as it is.

His workrate and mobility is better than the rest of our midfield other than Rupp

He makes more successful tackles and intereceptions than anyone apart from Tettey

He's left footed so adds balance.

We've not seen it this season but proven last season to be a goal threat.

He's also a potential assister of goals too - 6 in the run up to the end of the season last.

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Personally I don’t see what he really offers. Typical of our cms that offer zero protection to the defence whilst offering hardly any goals and assists. We’ve become So accustomed To mediocrity that we just blindly accept it. We need to have players in positions that excel in the attributes needed for said position. Week in week out we see our opponents midfield just running off our midfield. We’ve signed players like trybull, rupp and McLean for too long. Jack of all trades master of none. Time to aim higher. 

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He’s done quite well when played alongside Tettey and I would agree he’s our best “all round” midfielder. I don’t think he’s let us down this season and I think he’s a good option to have in the championship.

but perhaps one of the best illustrations of a part of the team we will need to have upgraded if we manage to get ourselves back up again.

hoping this Danish midfielder is also a good all round midfielder. 

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2 minutes ago, Number9 said:

I don't speak regularly to the players you USED to speak to, however, I am able to watch and consider what all the players do. 

You see when we watch a game it's not just looking at any single player running around on their own. They share the pitch with 21 other players and suffer comparison with those players too.

 

When analysing a game, the Coaches will not be watching match coverage , they will be watching a birds eye view mostly ,so as to gauge all players positioning and movement at once. I was once lucky enough to be at a lecture by FAI technical Director Ruud Doktor, what he was able to demonstrate was a revelation . He also made it very clear that a fans eye view is by definition , limited. This is not an insult to fans...he made that very apparent. As  Brian Kerr once said after his tenure as manager of RoI.....' during a game there are 30,000 fans that that know so much more about football than me, but ask me about music and I can spoof with the best of them.'.

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2 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

He’s done quite well when played alongside Tettey and I would agree he’s our best “all round” midfielder. I don’t think he’s let us down this season and I think he’s a good option to have in the championship.

but perhaps one of the best illustrations of a part of the team we will need to have upgraded if we manage to get ourselves back up again.

hoping this Danish midfielder is also a good all round midfielder. 

Balanced view Jimbo.👍

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11 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

He’s done quite well when played alongside Tettey and I would agree he’s our best “all round” midfielder. I don’t think he’s let us down this season and I think he’s a good option to have in the championship.

but perhaps one of the best illustrations of a part of the team we will need to have upgraded if we manage to get ourselves back up again.

hoping this Danish midfielder is also a good all round midfielder. 

All of that is fair.

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Anyone who criticises mclean is an utter tool who simply does not watch the game. 

He is our most effective midfielder. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Number9 said:

Farke regularly expresses sentiments very similar to that regarding our supporters.

These days though, the games are covered by numerous cameras, fans are probably more knowledgeable about game play than ever before and have access to stats about every aspect of the game. 

 

Noooooo!!

Firstly, Daniel would only ever speak about fans generally. He wouldn't suggest that Norwich fans are more or less knowledgeable than other fans. He is saying something that is understood within the game, and sometimes said.

Secondly, fans' perception of what is happening tactically is paper-thin. They see the obvious moves. They very rarely if ever see what changes the opposition has made and probably one in six of the changes we have made.

Thirdly, tactical ignorance is regularly illustrated by three sayings. a) the manager is tactically naieve. b) he has lost the changing room. c) he hasn't got a Plan B. These are the four lazy cliches which always betray a lack of football knowledge. The fact they are cliches makes them empty of any original thinking or meaning. They are a short-cut. If there is a point to be made, make it. Don't use someone else's cliche.

Another horrible cliche which has crept in - 'moving the ball through the thirds'. What pseudo-mumbo-jumbo. Once someone has said it once, that should have been its life expectancy expired.

Fourthly, there are those who think that managing a squad of 20 or 22 players is like playing FIFA. It really isn't. 

The local and national press don't really help understanding. I will give you a little challenge - find the last time that Daniel was asked a real FOOTBALL question by the Press. e.g. To what extent do you expect Emi to pick up a man and mark? or What changes do you make when it is obvious that your striker cannot compete in the air with his marker?

Daniel would love these questions and would respect the person asking them. Instead, he has to field inane mundanities and hear unqualified opinion.

Stats have a place, but need to be interpreted in the context of a player's role. Watch the game first. Cross reference with stats if you have to. 

I could go on, but I have bored myself already....

 

Edited by Pugin
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For all the 'Farke would or wouldn't do or say ...' I would suggest you listen to what he actually does say.

 

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27 minutes ago, Jerrykerry said:

Anyone who criticises mclean is an utter tool who simply does not watch the game. 

He is our most effective midfielder. 

That is hilarious 

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46 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

When analysing a game, the Coaches will not be watching match coverage , they will be watching a birds eye view mostly ,so as to gauge all players positioning and movement at once. I was once lucky enough to be at a lecture by FAI technical Director Ruud Doktor, what he was able to demonstrate was a revelation . He also made it very clear that a fans eye view is by definition , limited. This is not an insult to fans...he made that very apparent. As  Brian Kerr once said after his tenure as manager of RoI.....' during a game there are 30,000 fans that that know so much more about football than me, but ask me about music and I can spoof with the best of them.'.

The birds eye view of the positions are regularly available for games to supporters, not just coaches.

Many supporters will be informed by those views in addition to the other ways they see the game develop. 

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Posted (edited)

Kenny McLean will be one of the main midfielders in the Champs next season. I'm quite sure he will be a positive as he was in his comparatively brief time last season. It's been very difficult for virtually every single member of the team to shine this year in the PL. That includes, Max, Jamal, Emi, Teemu, Ben  etc....quite why some pick just on him is weird. Arguably only Todd Cantwell has truly over performed from his base level of performance since last year.

Edited by sonyc

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