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Yellow Fever

The Brexit Thread (reprise)

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4 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

I think the Tories will want him to go down with the Brexity ship. Who would want to take over and inherit all the issues that will materialise next year and then be blamed for them ?

Same for Starmer, we can all see the iceberg dead ahead and its too late to avoid so pick the pieces up after the damage is done and the incumbents are all totally discredited.

Well I agree it's all a question of timing and principally about the contenders distancing themselves both from the Brexit chaos and the Covid shambles -  which is why I can't see him getting the boot this year but I would say the Brexity ship will be well under water by next Spring 😀

Having said that what is more interesting is who the real contenders will be - hard to see any of the current cabinet (even Sunak) being able to distance themselves far from the total incompetence demonstrated by the government this year which goes way beyond Brexit and Covid - in fact you get the impression that many Tory backbench MPs are even more upset about the Internal Market Bill, the proposed new Planning Regulations and of course the absolutely monster debts that Johnson & co have run up, so it seems to me that the next Tory leader is almost certain to come from the backbenches.

Edited by Creative Midfielder

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2 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Well I agree it's all a question of timing and principally about the contenders distancing themselves both from the Brexit chaos and the Covid shambles -  which is why I can't see him getting the boot this year but I would say the Brexity ship will be well under water by next Spring 😀

Having said that what is more interesting is who the real contenders will be - hard to see any of the current cabinet (even Sunak) being able to distance themselves far from the total incompetence demonstrated by the government this year which goes way beyond Brexit and Covid - in fact you get the impression that many Tory backbench MPs are even more upset about the Internal Mqrket Bill, the proposed new Planning Regulations and of course the absolutely monster debts that Johnson & co have run up, so it seems to me that the next Tory leader is almost certain to come from the backbenches.

Yes - I suspect they will be out of office for a generation - the next leader won't 'be any member of this cabinet.

It's really the Blair 'New Labour' moment all over again for Starmer except Major was very competent.

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This is the most blatantly corrupt government. This is at banana republic levels.

 

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Food standards up for debate today. Let's see what other good part of Britain they are going to throw away. 

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1 hour ago, Herman said:

Food standards up for debate today. Let's see what other good part of Britain they are going to throw away. 

Think the writing has been on the wall for food standards for a long time and bizarrely, but very reminiscent of the recent Planning fiasco, it is going to upset a significant section of the Tories core support at least as much as, if not more than, the rest of us.

Still I don't think they can expect any sympathy, they were stupid enough to vote for this shower of sh*t even though the dismantling of our standards and rights in many fields was very clearly signposted, so they at least are getting what they voted voted for.

Still - first time ever we've had a government with a paper thin 80 seat majority 😂

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From the same thread, this sums it up.

Even MPs who promised not to vote against reducing strict hygiene standards then voted the opposite. 

 

IMG_20201013_100641.jpg

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To use a farming saying... You reap what you sow. Blame the idiots who voted for him, and brexit.

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Knock knock! 

Who's there? 

The German car industry. 

Really?! 😃

Nah, only joking, it's a toxic chicken. 

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2 hours ago, SHRIMPER said:

To use a farming saying... You reap what you sow. Blame the idiots who voted for him, and brexit.

Whilst I entirely agree with that sentiment, it still seems to be a rather fundamental and disastrous flaw in our 'democracy' that just  because 42% of the voters are idiots, the other 58% of us should have to suffer the consequences of their stupidity.

Even worse of course is that Johnson originally became Prime Minister via an election contest in which only just over 120,000 voters out of the UK electorate of around 45.8 million, so about 0.026%, had a vote at all.

Perhaps if we had an electoral system in which MPs and governments were genuinely accountable to the majority of voters then we might hope for somewhat higher standards and levels of competence than the total dross to which we've become accustomed and which we still seem to accept quite readily and without any significant protest.

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Fishing sustainability thrown out as well. Plunder those seas. They learn nothing from recent history. 

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Yes, they are just a bunch of vulture capitalists and asset strippers. And now the latest "scandal" is the people running the massively expensive and incompetent track and trace are being paid huge amounts of money.... except that nobody should be surprised, the Tories have imported the Republican model of "anti truth, anti-government, anti-any regulations" lock stock and barrel.

Give it 4 more weeks and we'll see if they remain so cocky..... or start running away like cockroaches. 

Edited by Surfer

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Article BBC Kate Adler

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54541761

I thought this description of Boros and Brexiteers position was quite apt. Toddlers.

"One diplomat close to the negotiations rather patronisingly described this potential EU compromise position by comparing the UK to a toddler that doesn't want to eat its vegetables. He said the EU was now looking for alternative arrangements to get the UK to sign up to a deal. He described it as mixing things up to hide the vegetables from the toddler."

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1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

Article BBC Kate Adler

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54541761

I thought this description of Boros and Brexiteers position was quite apt. Toddlers.

"One diplomat close to the negotiations rather patronisingly described this potential EU compromise position by comparing the UK to a toddler that doesn't want to eat its vegetables. He said the EU was now looking for alternative arrangements to get the UK to sign up to a deal. He described it as mixing things up to hide the vegetables from the toddler."

Very apt I would say, and absolutely no surprise at all that the EU have noticed the frequency of Johnson's u-turns and his propensity for setting deadlines which he then completely ignores or pretends he never set in the first place - there must be a few remote tribes deep in the Amazonian rain forest who don't know that Johnson is an untrustworthy, bullsh*ting, incompetent idiot.......but not many 😀

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1 hour ago, paul moy said:

Well that is what Johnson has said repeatedly he would do - of course it also means it is very likely that he will do the complete opposite 😀

If I were you I would brace for a few more weeks of negotiations 'at pace' (what a complete joke that phrase is in the hands of the Tories 😂).

I would say you have a good (& increasing) chance that Johnson will crash out accidentally but that on balance, given his track record, he will perform yet another u-turn and cave in completely in a few weeks time - no doubt you will find that disappointing but he gave you fair warning last year when he took Theresa May's very bad deal and in his desperation to be seen as able to 'get a deal' went and accepted a deal that the EU had already offered to Theresa May and she had rejected (quite rightly) as a deal 'no British Prime could possibly accept'.

Johnson is an idiot and on top of that he doesn't have the b*lls to walk, so if we do end up with no deal, which is very possible, it will be by accident rather than design.

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My read on this is the PM's decision tomorrow will be guided by President Trumps' town hall this evening. If Trump does spectacularly well but Joe Biden has a correspondingly bad evening, Boris will be going balls to the wall in demanding the EU concedes to the UK's trade requirements or else "we'll walk away." But If it is the other way around - a much more likely outcome - then Boris will know he gig is up and he'll be spinning that British pressure has "finally forced the EU to the negotiation table, to create a fair and balanced agreement" 

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5 hours ago, Surfer said:

My read on this is the PM's decision tomorrow will be guided by President Trumps' town hall this evening. If Trump does spectacularly well but Joe Biden has a correspondingly bad evening, Boris will be going balls to the wall in demanding the EU concedes to the UK's trade requirements or else "we'll walk away." But If it is the other way around - a much more likely outcome - then Boris will know he gig is up and he'll be spinning that British pressure has "finally forced the EU to the negotiation table, to create a fair and balanced agreement" 

Well the EU have certainly put Johnson right on the spot now - pretty much a challenge for him to do as he said he would and walk away whilst offering to continue negotiations if he wishes 😂

Johnson (idiot that he is) is no doubt wondering how on earth he is going to shift the blame now onto the EU for the failure to reach a deal - since fishing is such a hot topic I thtink it would be a fair summary to say that he is floundering out of his depth 🙄

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He's stuck between a rock and a hard plaice. Cod knows what he'll do about it

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Well Trump did his part - monster raving lunatic party would be proud of that performance - and I see Boris is currently executing his “full astern and lay smoke” maneuvers. We wanted to be Canada, but we are prepared to be Australia .... what an utter national humiliation. 

Edited by Surfer

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46 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Well Trump did his part - monster raving lunatic party would be proud of that performance - and I see Boris is Currently executing his “full astern and lay smoke” maneuvers. We wanted to be Canada, but we are prepared to be Australia .... what utter national humiliation. 

.... And we'll end up Mauritania 🤣

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I wish he would. As far as his fat legs will take him. I'd even suggest heading north from Cromer. 

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23 minutes ago, NFN FC said:

.... And we'll end up Mauritania 🤣

I'll turn the central heating off then.

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15 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Well the EU have certainly put Johnson right on the spot now - pretty much a challenge for him to do as he said he would and walk away whilst offering to continue negotiations if he wishes 😂

Johnson (idiot that he is) is no doubt wondering how on earth he is going to shift the blame now onto the EU for the failure to reach a deal - since fishing is such a hot topic I thtink it would be a fair summary to say that he is floundering out of his depth 🙄

Blame ?   We never needed a deal apart from in the negative remoaner minds. The EU on the other hand really do need a deal. True Brexiteers will be happy with this outcome especially if we now also dump the dreaded WA treaty.

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True Brexiteers would probably be happy if everyone fell down dead as long as they could say “we won” 

Now let’s move past the childish nah nah nah posturing and consider what happens without an agreement. Britain runs a trade deficit with the EU mainly on food and cars. So we are going to stop importing food and cars then? Of course not. And we balance the books with a large surplus on services. So we can still do that without a legal framework to do so?  Of course not. 

A no deal heads one way - a massive current account deficit, financial crisis and a run on the Pound. All good if you are a hedge fund manger shorting the UK, but not for any one else. 

Edited by Surfer

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1 hour ago, paul moy said:

Blame ?   We never needed a deal apart from in the negative remoaner minds. The EU on the other hand really do need a deal. True Brexiteers will be happy with this outcome especially if we now also dump the dreaded WA treaty.

Blame definitely because Johnson promised an 'oven ready deal' and won an election on the back of it - there will be blame by the bucketload if he doesn't deliver it.

As for dumping the Withdrawal Agreement, which I agree was awful and more blame at Johnson's door - only a complete idiot or a mendacious b*stard who never meant to honour it could have signed such an appalling deal.

But sign it he did, and less than a year ago, and the consequences of the UK breaking an international agreement in that fashion go way beyond the damage that Brexit is going to cause, so even if Johnson is stupid enough to try it (wouldn't rule that out) I don't think he will get away with it - even with his 80 seat majority which in recent months has looked more like an 8 seat rather than 80 seat majority - Johnson has more u-turns to come this year, just a case of waiting to find out where and when 😀

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