The Brexit Thread (reprise)

[SwindonCanary 455]

how about this statistic  On 24 June 2016, the recorded result was that the UK voted to leave the European Union by 51.89% for Leave to 48.11% for Remain, a margin of 3.78%. This corresponded to 17,410,742 votes to leave and 16,141,241 to remain, a margin of 1,269,501 votes.

[Surfer 1,547]

Really? The vote to leave the EU he'd 5 years ago was won by the leave EU side. Good job we never have more than one General Election then as we don't need to worry about whether people might change their minds about the outcome of a Government's policies, or in fact whether the Government told a load of porky pies to get elected and then did something completely opposite.

Face it, Swindon, your lot's entire Brexit campaign and subsequent behavior as a Government is built on a pyramid of lies. 

 

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

3 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

how about this statistic  On 24 June 2016, the recorded result was that the UK voted to leave the European Union by 51.89% for Leave to 48.11% for Remain, a margin of 3.78%. This corresponded to 17,410,742 votes to leave and 16,141,241 to remain, a margin of 1,269,501 votes.

And your point is what exactly...??

Leave won the Referendum and we have left - job done you might say except that none of the things that you voted for when you put your cross in the Leave box have been delivered or are ever going to be delivered.

What has been delivered is a seriously damaged economy with rising national debt, a shockingly poor trade deal with our biggest trade partner which will handicap our economy for decades to come and a huge dent to our international prestige/soft power which is never going to be rebuilt. Oh and let's not forget that Brexit is also the prime factor behind an increasingly probable complete break up of the UK.

But you won a victory, nobody disputes that - unfortunately for all of us, you won the very epitome of a Pyrrhic victory.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Creative Midfielder

[SwindonCanary 455]

4 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

when you put your cross in the Leave box have been delivered or are ever going to be delivered

I put my cross in the box for the government to make decisions without any come back from the EU 

[Well b back 3,203]

8 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

I put my cross in the box for the government to make decisions without any come back from the EU 

I put my cross in the box as they promised £350 million a week to the NHS and Britain’s needed jobs and wanted those jobs done by EU citizens - f****** liars.

[Herman 9,763]

7 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

I put my cross in the box for the government to make decisions without any come back from the EU 

This is the mentality of brexiters. They never understood that we were willing members of the EU and that we were as responsible as any other member for making the rules but that we were always forced to join in and had to take their rulings whether we liked it or not. To them it has always been the EU plus the UK. They can never get their head around the we were the EU too.

[A Load of Squit 5,162]

8 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

I put my cross in the box for the government to make decisions without any come back from the EU 

Has the situation in N Ireland convinced you that has been achieved?

The majority of decisions made by the government will have to be made with consideration of how it will affect our relationship with the EU, just like the days when we were in the EU and we had a say in what the EU did.

 

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

2 hours ago, Herman said:

This is the mentality of brexiters. They never understood that we were willing members of the EU and that we were as responsible as any other member for making the rules but that we were always forced to join in and had to take their rulings whether we liked it or not. To them it has always been the EU plus the UK. They can never get their head around the we were the EU too.

Think that sums it up perfectly and in practice we weren't even just willing members - we may have been late to the party in the first place but after joining we were one of the most influential members and much about the modern EU was directly driven by UK input.

I don't know how many times we need to remind right wing thickos and Brexiteers that it is was one of their heroes, Margaret Thatcher, that was jointly responsible with Jacque Delors for bringing the Single Market into being - actually in the face initially of quite a bit of opposition from some of the other EU countries. Over the years of course that opposition has melted away as all EU countries, including the UK, reaped the significant social and econmic benefits, so ironically perhaps that was one thing that Thatcher actually got right.

I think it is worth pointing out that, despite the dlusions of the Brexiteers, the UK is the only one of the EU28 countries to even seriously contemplate giving up those benefits in return for precisely nothing as we have done. Nor will they in the foreseeable future - the EU now is even more united than it was pre-Brexit and there remains a queue of countries trying to negotiate admission.

Finally I think it is worth pointing out that not only were we (both Labour & Tory governments) extremely influential in shaping the EU and its policies because it was in the UK's best interests, we were so influential that we were able to opt out of the few bits we really didn't agree with or want to be part of - Schengen and the Euro being a couple of obvious examples.

Herman summed it up perfectly - 'This is the mentality of brexiters. They never understood that we were willing members of the EU and that we were as responsible as any other member for making the rules but that we were always forced to join in and had to take their rulings whether we liked it or not. '

Can't say I ever expected more than a tiny minority to admit that they made the wrong decision when voting. But given we are now 18 months in and not a single promised benefit has materialised and almost all the promises made to them have been clearly shown to be false or outright lies. So by now it doesn't seem too much to hope for that they might at least stop pretending that everything has gone to plan and they are getting what they hoped and voted for.

[Yellow Fever 3,783]

Just saw this and I had to laugh ..... The answer of course was always obvious to anybody who ever thought about it but that seems to exclude 52% of the population in 2016 and certainly Frost and Johnson who clearly never had a scooby.

In evidence to the Commons European scrutiny committee, Lord Frost, the Brexit minister, restated his call for fundamental changes to the way the Northern Ireland protocol operates. He told the committee:

At the moment, I think the only way it can be made sustainable is if we could find a way to hugely reduce or eliminate the barriers between Great Britain and Northern Ireland, goods moving in that direction, and we need to - as we go forward - try and find a way of achieving that.

It remains the core of the problem that the boundary between Great Britain and Northern Ireland is too dissuasive, too complicated, too chilling of identity in various ways. And that’s what’s got to be solved, I think, in terms of direction of travel. So we’re keeping, obviously, all options on the table.

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Yellow Fever

[horsefly 4,300]

30 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Just saw this and I had to laugh ..... The answer of course was always obvious to anybody who ever thought about it but that seems to exclude 52% of the population in 2016 and certainly Frost and Johnson who clearly never had a scooby.

In evidence to the Commons European scrutiny committee, Lord Frost, the Brexit minister, restated his call for fundamental changes to the way the Northern Ireland protocol operates. He told the committee:

At the moment, I think the only way it can be made sustainable is if we could find a way to hugely reduce or eliminate the barriers between Great Britain and Northern Ireland, goods moving in that direction, and we need to - as we go forward - try and find a way of achieving that.

It remains the core of the problem that the boundary between Great Britain and Northern Ireland is too dissuasive, too complicated, too chilling of identity in various ways. And that’s what’s got to be solved, I think, in terms of direction of travel. So we’re keeping, obviously, all options on the table.

 

Jesus Christ! He's just re-stating (very badly) the original problem that the NI Protocol was supposed to solve. How can he possibly be so thick???

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

32 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Jesus Christ! He's just re-stating (very badly) the original problem that the NI Protocol was supposed to solve. How can he possibly be so thick???

I think both Frosty and Johnson are that thick and of course completely blinkered.

After all they keep trying to pretend that they've only just realised there was a problem but there was hardly a shortage of people telling them that the agreement was a potential nightmare, including of course the Northern Irish themselves. But of course Johnson has shown time and again that he doesn't give a t*ss about what the people of NI, Wales and Scotland think or voted for.

But I think their stupidity lies not so much in failing to realise there would be problems, IMO they always knew there would be major problems with it but they were stupid enought to believe they could just blag their way through not implementing it. Don't think there was ever any intention to implement it, and now the EU are holding their feet to the fire, as they were always bound to do, they're squealing like the entitled childish brats they are.

Frosty and Johnson are a pair of total thickos who still don't seem to have the slightest grasp of what the Single Market is about - neither the huge benefits it brought this country or the huge determination of the EU to protect its integrity - pair of complete t*ssers who have messed up big time.

[Bill 1,788]

"Government plans to tackle the UK’s chronic lorry driver shortage will take at least five months to take effect and will not address the threat of food shortages this summer, industry leaders have warned. Transport secretary Grant Shapps’ offer to fast-track licensing processes to get an army of new drivers on the road is not enough to fix the problem affecting summer, autumn and Christmas supplies, they said.

They say the shortage of drivers can only be fixed if EU drivers are allowed back in the country."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/20/hgv-license-fast-track-wont-stop-uk-food-shortages-industry-warns

Anyone see a pattern developing here.

• Remove the costly restrictions on EU medical staff.
• Remove restrictions on East European fruit pickers etc.
• Stop being childish about the realities of NI customs.

Fishing devastated by the realities of what they voted for, as with farming. and both now wanting crippling brexit restrictions removed. And we now we have calls for EU HGV drivers being welcomed back, not told to fck off by brexiters, as before.

And the irony of it being George Eustice trying to sort this out. The same lying brexiter sh.it who told the thick how wonderful it would all be.

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

10 hours ago, Bill said:

"Government plans to tackle the UK’s chronic lorry driver shortage will take at least five months to take effect and will not address the threat of food shortages this summer, industry leaders have warned. Transport secretary Grant Shapps’ offer to fast-track licensing processes to get an army of new drivers on the road is not enough to fix the problem affecting summer, autumn and Christmas supplies, they said.

They say the shortage of drivers can only be fixed if EU drivers are allowed back in the country."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/20/hgv-license-fast-track-wont-stop-uk-food-shortages-industry-warns

Anyone see a pattern developing here.

• Remove the costly restrictions on EU medical staff.
• Remove restrictions on East European fruit pickers etc.
• Stop being childish about the realities of NI customs.

Fishing devastated by the realities of what they voted for, as with farming. and both now wanting crippling brexit restrictions removed. And we now we have calls for EU HGV drivers being welcomed back, not told to fck off by brexiters, as before.

And the irony of it being George Eustice trying to sort this out. The same lying brexiter sh.it who told the thick how wonderful it would all be.

Quite, and I may be getting various thick Brexiteers mixed up but wasn't it our esteemed Transport Secretary, Grant Shapps, that didn't know where Dover was, or was that George Eustice as well? 

[A Load of Squit 5,162]

15 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Quite, and I may be getting various thick Brexiteers mixed up but wasn't it our esteemed Transport Secretary, Grant Shapps, that didn't know where Dover was, or was that George Eustice as well? 

Dominic Raab.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46142188

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/08/dominic-raab-dover-calais-brexit-uk-france

 

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

9 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

Dominic Raab.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46142188

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/08/dominic-raab-dover-calais-brexit-uk-france

 

😂 Yes, of course it was - how could I forget?

There are so many stupidities and lies to remember, and so many thickos and liars who came out with them but my memory obviously isn't as sharp as it used to be if I'm misattributing that classic from Raab 😃

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

I quite recently posted something to the effect that every time Frosty made a public statement about the NI Protocol he made himself sound even more stupid and deceitful than the previous time - which is becoming a pretty high bar to vault.

But bless me, our embarassingly dim Brexit Minister has just proved me right and also demonstrated once again that he is utterly clueless about the Single Market - well actually why restrict that statement to the scope of the Single Market?

He is utterly clueless.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57911148

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/21/uk-substantially-rewrite-northern-ireland-brexit-protocol

[Yellow Fever 3,783]

A comment on the TV tonight nailed it for me.

Who negotiates a new deal with a person who won't implement the deal they agreed to only 6 months ago?

 

Frost and Johnson. Zero trust, zero credibility and certainly not 'My word is my bond' English gentlemen. Simply people best avoided by all.

They have trashed the UK's reputation.

Edited July 21, 2021 by Yellow Fever

[Herman 9,763]

It hasn't gone unnoticed by the Americans YF. They know exactly what the government are up to. 

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

5 hours ago, Herman said:

It hasn't gone unnoticed by the Americans YF. They know exactly what the government are up to. 

Definitely, but I imagine that Johnson gave up any hope of a US trade deal after the shambles of his G7 (assuming he ever had any realistic hopes of one), so maybe he thinks he has nothing to lose.

I'm guessing that Biden has a number of ways in which he might educate Johnson that he's wrong on that score as well 😂

[Surfer 1,547]

Ah good times ..

 

 

[Herman 9,763]

😀

 

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

1 hour ago, Surfer said:

Ah good times ..

 

 

 

Yep, the EU should open any and every meeting with Frosty and/or Johnson by playing that sequence - just to provide some appropriate context for the meeting  😂😂

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

So yet another Brexiteer myth explodes and a relatively recent one at that - shame for the Brexiteers really, especially as they stupidly thought they had finally identified a benefit of Brexit by linking the UK's earlier and bigger start to the vaccine rollout relative to the EU as being a consequence of Brexit.

But despite all the bluster and nationalistic triumphalism it has turned out to be a classic tortoise and hare story as we now learn that six EU tortoises have overtaken the UK hare, with several more EU tortoises on course to also overtake in the next 2/3 weeks https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/06/six-eu-states-overtake-uk-covid-vaccination-britain-rollout-slows

Of course this particular Brexit myth was actually a double myth since the vaccine rollout was always, and is still, a matter for national governments and had nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit anyway. The UK could have done everything they did even if they had still been in the EU, equally even though we had already left we could have chosen to work collaboratively with the rest of the EU. So Brexit, in this case, was utterly irrelevant.

Anyone who doubts this and  still regards the EU as a centrally controlled 'bloc' should look at the huge disparity of outcomes of the rollout within the EU itself, which range from the countries which have done better than the UK to those who have done remarkably little - all driven by differing polices and decisions taken by different national governments.

So, the search for a tangible Brexit benefit goes on..... 😂

It's all starting to feel a bit like the Lord Lucan saga, except that we know that Lord Lucan definitely existed and then disappeared so there was always the faint possibility that he could be found. Whereas a Brexit benefit has always sat in range between a highly speculative theory and a complete myth, and so far not a single one of them has stood up to any scrutiny. 

[Herman 9,763]

Why's is that then Torygraph?

Army on standby to restock Britain’s shelves amid truck driver shortage.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/08/army-standby-restock-britains-shelves-amid-truck-driver-shortage/

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

On 08/08/2021 at 19:03, Herman said:

Why's is that then Torygraph?

Army on standby to restock Britain’s shelves amid truck driver shortage.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/08/army-standby-restock-britains-shelves-amid-truck-driver-shortage/

Excellent, haven't been able to get smoked German cheese slices in Aldi for weeks and weeks, and the wine section is looking worryingly bare as well - so let's hope the army can sort it out!  😃

Edited August 11, 2021 by Creative Midfielder

[A Load of Squit 5,162]

On 08/08/2021 at 19:03, Herman said:

Why's is that then Torygraph?

Army on standby to restock Britain’s shelves amid truck driver shortage.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/08/army-standby-restock-britains-shelves-amid-truck-driver-shortage/

Current shortage of HGV drivers in the UK, approx 100,000

Number of HGV drivers in the Army, approx 2,000.

Problem solved! 😀

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

33 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

Current shortage of HGV drivers in the UK, approx 100,000

Number of HGV drivers in the Army, approx 2,000.

Problem solved! 😀

Fair point, let's hope they prioritise sensibly - 2,000 should be plenty to resolve the smoked cheese and wine issues 😂

[Herman 9,763]

I think we need a KFC or McDonald's shortage again before some wake up. 

[Herman 9,763]

On 11/08/2021 at 13:06, Herman said:

I think we need a KFC or McDonald's shortage again before some wake up. 

And so it starts......

 

[A Load of Squit 5,162]

Remember everyone, we are the country that voted to impose sanctions on itself.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/aug/17/exports-from-ireland-to-great-britain-soar-in-post-brexit-trade-imbalance

Republic and other EU exporters benefit from the UK’s phased 12-month transition for border checks