The Brexit Thread (reprise)

[A Load of Squit 5,116]

9 hours ago, Surfer said:

Felixstowe, Bill. We can easily expand Felixstowe. Or immingham. Or London. 

Don't have any ferries that can carry the lorries, but we do have the ports.... 

 

Don't forget Kings Lynn, they used to import Lada cars through the dock at Lynn, we could be seeing Beemers & Audi's. 😀

[sonyc 5,488]

A bit of an impressionistic ramble around the subject of the UK and it's historical relations globally but no less interesting for it. Michael White explores how the UK is moving away from the EU, as well as trying to adapt to rather uncomfortable relations with Russia, China and even the US.

Damning on the seeming lack of strategy and emerging isolationism... All at a time when a long term geo-political strategy is arguably never more urgent.

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/where-does-the-uk-stand-internationally-1-6761191

You wonder if Johnson will yet go down in history for presiding over:

* A no deal Brexit and economic turbulence

* Catastrophic economic collapse and record unemployment / civil unrest following a poor response to the pandemic

* Break up of the union (300 plus years)

 

 

[Rock The Boat 1,324]

On 23/07/2020 at 13:31, Herman said:

Well it looks like Sturgeon is very happy Johnson has turned up on her doorstep. 

The last Scottish referendum was just six years ago when a sizeable majority voted to remain in the Union. Since then the outlook for Scotland has deteriorated to a point where it now makes even less sense for Scotland to leave the Union that it did in 2014. 

Of course, there is no accounting for idiocy, the number of Remoaners still in denial as an example, so there is always the possibility that the Scots may choose national suicide. But rational Scots will continue to support the Union. 

[Herman 9,710]

Deleted.

 

 

 

Edited July 25, 2020 by Herman
Deleted for bad manners.

[sonyc 5,488]

4 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

The last Scottish referendum was just six years ago when a sizeable majority voted to remain in the Union. Since then the outlook for Scotland has deteriorated to a point where it now makes even less sense for Scotland to leave the Union that it did in 2014. 

Of course, there is no accounting for idiocy, the number of Remoaners still in denial as an example, so there is always the possibility that the Scots may choose national suicide. But rational Scots will continue to support the Union. 

Why do you think the Scots would want to associate with England when economic benefits of EU membership would be lost? I realise Scotland joining the EU in the future (a majority in a poll want that) would take many years. Yet, they have a better chance of going alone with their economy than Wales for example. 

In imagining if I was a Scot, I believe I would be voting for independence. In this strange way of trying to understand what it's like to be in someone else's shoes, I can understand likewise why some UK voters wanted Brexit. But as you're a Brexit voter, would you not see why Scottish people would likewise want independence?

[Rock The Boat 1,324]

On 23/07/2020 at 18:26, Creative Midfielder said:

I did not say Chinese technology in general is streets ahead, I specifically said mobile comms technology which is an area in which the Chinese have been investing heavily in research and development for many years and in which they are streets ahead of the US and European manufacturers - something which you would be aware of if you knew anything about the industry. Perhaps you should do some research amongst the technical literature instead of simply spouting tripe from Trump's twitter feed.

Perhaps for starters you could address the question of why the UK was basing its new 5G network so heavily on Huawei kit for both cost and performance reasons if the US has better kit.

You could also ask yourself why, if the US has superior technology (instead of the reality of being an estimated 3 - 5 years behind) it has been necessary for Trump to manufacture a spurious security threat and then attempt to bully countries all round the world in order to stop them buying what you believe is inferior technology slapped together by cheap unskilled labour 🤣

I know a lot about the mobile comms technology. I know that Huawei's technology is stolen.mainly from Cisco right down to the user manuals which contained the same typos as the Cisco manuals. 

Huawei stole handset technology from T-mobile. They hacked into Nortel when they partnered with them. 

There is a consistent theme of Chinese operatives working in the West stealing technological secrets and sending them back to China. The BBC even.made a programme about it a year ago, it may be still up on iPlayer. The Chinese were even caught red-handed stealing research into Covid and sending the results back to the Wuhan labs, of all ironic places. 

Your assertion that Chinese technology is better than Western technology is not credible

 

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

2 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

The last Scottish referendum was just six years ago when a sizeable majority voted to remain in the Union. Since then the outlook for Scotland has deteriorated to a point where it now makes even less sense for Scotland to leave the Union that it did in 2014.

Just over six years ago the Scots were told repeatedly that the only way they could keep EU membership was to remain in the UK - since then England has removed Scotland from the EU.

The outlook has deteriorated for most European countries so nothing unusual there, indeed almost all countries around the world, but virtually all economists and economic bodies are forecasting that the UK will be the worst affected in the Western world. I would say that the Scots have every reason to believe that their future would be much brighter outside the UK and released from the control of this most incompetent government - and actually it doesn't really matter what we think, the polls are now showing quite consistently that it is what most Scots already believe, and with every trip that the idiot Johnson makes to Scotland I'm pretty sure that lead will increase further 🤣

Edited July 25, 2020 by Creative Midfielder

[A Load of Squit 5,116]

 

[Herman 9,710]

A worrying development. Looks like we are going down the Erdogan route too. And with Cummings taking control of government data I think we are risking a dark turn to the country. We are not taking back control, they are taking it off us.

 

[Surfer 1,547]

5 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

I know a lot about the mobile comms technology. I know that Huawei's technology is stolen.mainly from Cisco right down to the user manuals which contained the same typos as the Cisco manuals. 

Huawei stole handset technology from T-mobile. They hacked into Nortel when they partnered with them. 

There is a consistent theme of Chinese operatives working in the West stealing technological secrets and sending them back to China. The BBC even.made a programme about it a year ago, it may be still up on iPlayer. The Chinese were even caught red-handed stealing research into Covid and sending the results back to the Wuhan labs, of all ironic places. 

Your assertion that Chinese technology is better than Western technology is not credible

 

The Japanese did the same thing before them. 

The question is what does the British Government do about it - where is the national champion in this critical industry? 

We are a small, densely populated country. Why do we not already have a world class telecommunications infrastructure? 

[A Load of Squit 5,116]

Kent, the lorry park of England. 😀

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/ashford/news/the-reality-of-brexit-is-now-hitting-home-230749/

Rick Martin, chairman of Sevington with Finberry parish council, says people are concerned about what effect the project will have on house prices and quality of life.

He said: "Brexit was the will of local people – 59% in Ashford voted Leave, in line with 59% in Kent overall – and many are now sadly realising the reality of what their vote entailed for their local area.

...........................................................

To those who voted against this commiserations. To those who voted for it, you won, get over it.

 

 

[Bill 1,788]

1 hour ago, Surfer said:

The Japanese did the same thing before them. 

The question is what does the British Government do about it - where is the national champion in this critical industry? 

We are a small, densely populated country. Why do we not already have a world class telecommunications infrastructure? 

It was proposed at the last election - fit every house with (super) fast broadband

Which was summarily whined at by the righties, as in their stupidity, they saw it as providing Netflix etc for the 'undeserving' poor

So instead of the UK seeing broad band as another necessary utility.... water, electricity, gas and sewage we are throwing away £100 billion and more on a trainline that will be obsolete before it is even constructed

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

7 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Your assertion that Chinese technology is better than Western technology is not credible

 

Its credible as far as 5G providers all over the world are concerned since Huawei is the market leader in this field, including in the UK where BT and Virgin have already spent huge amounts on Huawei kit.

Actually it's credible in quite a few other areas as well - you appear to be still living in the 20th century as far as technology is concerned. Still mustn't complain, that's still a couple of centuries ahead of your politcal and social views  😀

[Herman 9,710]

15 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Its credible as far as 5G providers all over the world are concerned since Huawei is the market leader in this field, including in the UK where BT and Virgin have already spent huge amounts on Huawei kit.

Actually it's credible in quite a few other areas as well - you appear to be still living in the 20th century as far as technology is concerned. Still mustn't complain, that's still a couple of centuries ahead of your politcal and social views  😀

Huawei have been making internet gear for years and have been very good at it. My first internet dongle from Vodafone was one of theirs and that was over 15 years ago. As I've said before the best phone I had was one of theirs. 3 years old, battery stil running ok. The only reason I had to replace it was because the on off button had broke.

We all know this rumble has little or nothing to do with spying and simply our buffoon sucking up to their buffoon so he can sell the UK for that little bit cheaper.

[Bill 1,788]

So

"Michel and EU27 national leaders have focused far more attention in recent weeks on negotiating a historic €1.82 trillion budget and coronavirus recovery package. "

The EU can negotiate swiftly and clearly among 27 nations over a matter of days, yet over 4 years with the UK and there is still no agreement

(well, there was - but the UK ratted on their word)

Not too difficult to see where the problem lies is it

UK lies

[Herman 9,710]

Right at the very start of this debacle it was clearly explained and acknowledged, by those with sense, that if we left the club we will not get the same benefits as being in it. 

A lot of people believed and still believe that was false and the EU would cave in. But they simply can't as it would be the beginning of the end for the EU if they did. 

And now we are where we are. A mess because people couldn't accept reality and the people that failed to explain reality are going to carry on down this path rather than man up and apologise. 

[Rock The Boat 1,324]

On 25/07/2020 at 13:03, sonyc said:

Why do you think the Scots would want to associate with England when economic benefits of EU membership would be lost? I realise Scotland joining the EU in the future (a majority in a poll want that) would take many years. Yet, they have a better chance of going alone with their economy than Wales for example. 

In imagining if I was a Scot, I believe I would be voting for independence. In this strange way of trying to understand what it's like to be in someone else's shoes, I can understand likewise why some UK voters wanted Brexit. But as you're a Brexit voter, would you not see why Scottish people would likewise want independence?

Well firstly, it won't be so straightforward joining the EU as many Scots think. It's not altogether clear that the EU wants them in, and it certainly wouldn't be on the terms that Scotland wants. What do the Scots bring to the EU table? They would be net beneficiaries rather than net contributors to the EU budget, so there is a cost to the larger EU members of the Scottish joining, so the terms of joining are likely to be onerous, such as having to accept the Euro as a currency, sharing of EU debt and as much immigration as Berlin and Paris thinks Scotland should take.

If I were Scots I would want to know whether the amount I'd be getting from the EU is equal to or greater than the amount I am getting under the Barnet formula. I would also want to know what the rest of the UK might do if we sought independence. Would there be a border imposed between Scotland and England, would industry move from a high-cost (because of SNP socialist policies) region to a lower-cost England? would Scottish nationals working in England lose their right to remain? Would there be a flight of Scottish entrepreneurs and creatives from Scotland when taxes rise?

And finally, I would ask myself as a Scots person, had I really achieved independence if all I've done is moved from an English partnership to an EU club of 28 or more?

[Rock The Boat 1,324]

On 25/07/2020 at 17:48, Herman said:

A worrying development. Looks like we are going down the Erdogan route too. And with Cummings taking control of government data I think we are risking a dark turn to the country. We are not taking back control, they are taking it off us.

 

It looks more like we are considering to remove the Supreme Court mechanism and going back to the tried and trusted Law Lords in the Houses of Parliament. As was feared, the Supreme Court is taking on a political complexion, as was seen during the prorogation of Parliament last year. The HoP is the right place for political decision-making, not the courts, so this is a welcome development, in my opinion.

[Rock The Boat 1,324]

On 25/07/2020 at 20:14, Bill said:

It was proposed at the last election - fit every house with (super) fast broadband

Which was summarily whined at by the righties, as in their stupidity, they saw it as providing Netflix etc for the 'undeserving' poor

So instead of the UK seeing broad band as another necessary utility.... water, electricity, gas and sewage we are throwing away £100 billion and more on a trainline that will be obsolete before it is even constructed

What was proposed by Labour at the last election was FREE broadband for all. As was noted at the time, water, electricity, gas and sewerage all have to be paid for by consumers, so there is no case to be made for free national broadband.

[Rock The Boat 1,324]

On 25/07/2020 at 18:43, Surfer said:

The Japanese did the same thing before them. 

The question is what does the British Government do about it - where is the national champion in this critical industry? 

We are a small, densely populated country. Why do we not already have a world class telecommunications infrastructure? 

It's actually Brexit Party policy to have national champions in strategic British industries, so you're more closely aligned to Farage's thinking than you realise. 😀

[Rock The Boat 1,324]

2 hours ago, Bill said:

So

"Michel and EU27 national leaders have focused far more attention in recent weeks on negotiating a historic €1.82 trillion budget and coronavirus recovery package. "

The EU can negotiate swiftly and clearly among 27 nations over a matter of days, yet over 4 years with the UK and there is still no agreement

(well, there was - but the UK ratted on their word)

Not too difficult to see where the problem lies is it

UK lies

So where is the 1.8 trillion EU coming from?

[Herman 9,710]

9 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

It looks more like we are considering to remove the Supreme Court mechanism and going back to the tried and trusted Law Lords in the Houses of Parliament. As was feared, the Supreme Court is taking on a political complexion, as was seen during the prorogation of Parliament last year. The HoP is the right place for political decision-making, not the courts, so this is a welcome development, in my opinion.

Well that's utter nonsense. Prorogation was a deliberate and desperate act to stop Parliament having a say. There was no legal basis for what the government were trying to do as shown by the SC decision.

[Surfer 1,547]

2 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

It's actually Brexit Party policy to have national champions in strategic British industries, so you're more closely aligned to Farage's thinking than you realise. 😀

Okidoki. It’s one thing to have a “policy” quite another to have an executable plan. Last time I checked the Tories formed the Government and the Brexit Party is still looking for a single seat. 

So, as the Tories have been in power for a decade now, what is the national Industrial plan again? 

[Bill 1,788]

13 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

The HoP is the right place for political decision-making, not the courts, so this is a welcome development, in my opinion.

It was not political it was legal - ie a law

The legislative makes the law, the judiciary counters that it is applied correctly so stop posting up nonsense, hand crank

 

 

 

 

[Bill 1,788]

7 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

So where is the 1.8 trillion EU coming from?

Farage's expenses, no longer being claimed

 

ps where is Ben10 ?

[Bill 1,788]

19 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

What was proposed by Labour at the last election was FREE broadband for all. As was noted at the time, water, electricity, gas and sewerage all have to be paid for by consumers, so there is no case to be made for free national broadband.

But consumers did not pay for the infrastructure directly

"The plan will be paid for through Labour’s Green Transformation fund and taxing multinational corporations such as Amazon, Facebook and Google, and save the average person £30.30 a month.

Only 8-10 per cent of premises in the UK are connected to full-fibre broadband, compared to 97 per cent in Japan and 98 per cent in South Korea. Almost 80% of adults surveyed said that they have experienced internet reliability problems in the last year."

It will happen just as the government built the sewers, laid the phone cables and electricity

Dinosaurs and your bigotry will soon be swept away

Rennes

 

[Rock The Boat 1,324]

12 minutes ago, Herman said:

Well that's utter nonsense. Prorogation was a deliberate and desperate act to stop Parliament having a say. There was no legal basis for what the government were trying to do as shown by the SC decision.

Prorogation was to end one of the longest parliamentary sessions in modern times. It is the Queen that prorogates Parliament so the supreme court were actually trying to put themselves above the Monarch. for that reason alone, they need to go.

[Rock The Boat 1,324]

1 minute ago, Bill said:

But consumers did not pay for the infrastructure directly

"The plan will be paid for through Labour’s Green Transformation fund and taxing multinational corporations such as Amazon, Facebook and Google, and save the average person £30.30 a month.

Only 8-10 per cent of premises in the UK are connected to full-fibre broadband, compared to 97 per cent in Japan and 98 per cent in South Korea. Almost 80% of adults surveyed said that they have experienced internet reliability problems in the last year."

It will happen just as the government built the sewers, laid the phone cables and electricity

Dinosaurs and your bigotry will soon be swept away

Rennes

 

Labour promised free broadband for all, at point of use. The country said 'no thanks, Mr. Corbyn'

[Bill 1,788]

like your 'mate' hand crank who claimed to have a different voting slip to everyone else

there was no separate clause on the 2019 election slip

so stop lying hand crank

[Herman 9,710]

4 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Prorogation was to end one of the longest parliamentary sessions in modern times. It is the Queen that prorogates Parliament so the supreme court were actually trying to put themselves above the Monarch. for that reason alone, they need to go.

The Queen does it under advice from the PM. The court found the PMs actions unlawful. It had nothing to do with the courts putting themselves above the Queen but upholding the law of the land. 

Did Johnson ever apologise to Her Majesty?