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Kenny Foggo

Michael Bailey - 3 leaving

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16 hours ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Norwich with have extra in by the end of the week - so there isn’t much delaying going on with bringing people in. That’s the 3 already signed plus the 4 to be done this week. 
 

The earliest start date for next season is 29th August - so still quite a while to get more in. 
 

Hardest to replace will be Godfrey. A quick centre-back who can pass and bring the ball out of defence? Good luck finding one of those for less than £20m. 

If only he could defend or had any positional awareness he'd be quite the player.

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Just now, sgncfc said:

If only he could defend or had any positional awareness he'd be quite the player.

Those are easy to develop than the other things. 
 

I’d also say he is pretty solid at both for a younger player. The fact clubs from across Europe are keen on him is probably testament to his abilities. 

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Posted (edited)

Re short turn around. It’ll be same for all the Championship clubs though. They are still playing their remaining games too, so in fact their turnaround may be shorter. 

Edited by Surfer

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7 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Those are easy to develop than the other things. 
 

I’d also say he is pretty solid at both for a younger player. The fact clubs from across Europe are keen on him is probably testament to his abilities. 

He's 22. Another one of our supposed "youngsters" who is actually not that young. He has now played almost three full seasons in three different leagues. He certainly looks the part because he's athletic and quick but he can't read how other players move, and I'm not sure you can teach that - witness the fact that he has made the same errors over and over again; that run Trossard made across the near post for Brighton is one he has failed to track so many times, including last season. For his size, he's also not very good in the air. If we really can get £25m for him it will go down as the deal of the century.

 

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Bethnal has the right idea. It's the potential that he can be taught these things that will net us the money- just a bit sour that that fact didn't really do much for us this season.

Me personally, I feel he would have shown a bit more of the required defensive awareness by 22 if he had it in him to be outstanding. I think he will be a Murphy rather than a Maddison.

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Godfrey will always be the John stones type of cb. It’s great to have someone so comfortable on the ball but I’d take an out and out defender everyday. Especially in the top flight. 

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Leitner, Raggatt, Thompson, Heise and Morris all look like they may be on their way.

Mclean's contract runs out in 2021 as does Vrancic's so I suspect both or a least one of the two are candidates for departure. 

Pukki is salable but he's a demon in the Championship and so is worth his weight in gold and possibly more. 

Klose is nearing the end of his career and contract but an in form Klose is a pretty awesome CB especially for Championship football plus given his age his resale value is not great. 

Whilst clubs might covet the likes of Cantwell, Emi, Godfrey, Lewis and Aarons all of these players are all tied into long contracts so unless they have a release clause that is met by a potential suitor then I suspect we will keep them unless an over the top offer comes in.

It shouldn't be assumed that any of this younger cohort will depart unless to a club where they will be guaranteed starters and into a side which suits their style of play.

All have plenty of time left to make a big move and all have scope to improve their game. A big club buying this type of player is expecting the finished article.

A lucrative move to warm a bench or to fight another relegation battle isn't necessarily a smart move.

We might still lose one or more of this group but hopefully if we do it will be to a worthwhile destination where we can continue to follow their fortunes rather than to a destination where their career will quickly fade into oblivion due to the fickle nature of the gods of football. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Those are easy to develop than the other things. 
 

I’d also say he is pretty solid at both for a younger player. The fact clubs from across Europe are keen on him is probably testament to his abilities. 

I think you  either have this defensive nous or know how or you don't ,and he doesn't despite all the other attributes he has ,put Benny in cdm role.:^)

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18 minutes ago, Bonzo said:

Mclean's contract runs out in 2021 as does Vrancic's so I suspect both or a least one of the two are candidates for departure. 

 

McLean is signed up to 2022. Also Bailey seemed to suggest that him and Krul may be in line for new deals this summer which may make a few posters heads explode.

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2 minutes ago, Canary dwarf said:

I think you  either have this defensive nous or know how or you don't ,and he doesn't despite all the other attributes he has ,put Benny in cdm role.:^)

Defensive nous is defiantly a learnable skill, as Godfrey has only been a centre back for a couple of seasons I suspect he has a lot of room for growth. I also don’t think he is as bad at it as many here seem to think. 
 

I suspect he’d be the easiest to sell, and potentially at the highest fee. 

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23 minutes ago, vlad666 said:

Godfrey will always be the John stones type of cb. It’s great to have someone so comfortable on the ball but I’d take an out and out defender everyday. Especially in the top flight. 

Great example he never really kicked on as some people(myself included) thought he would, Ben will be the same.

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53 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

He's 22. Another one of our supposed "youngsters" who is actually not that young. He has now played almost three full seasons in three different leagues. He certainly looks the part because he's athletic and quick but he can't read how other players move, and I'm not sure you can teach that - witness the fact that he has made the same errors over and over again; that run Trossard made across the near post for Brighton is one he has failed to track so many times, including last season. For his size, he's also not very good in the air. If we really can get £25m for him it will go down as the deal of the century.

 

To suggest Godfrey "looks the part" simply "because he's athletic and quick" is insulting. He's not being tracked by some of the biggest clubs in Europe due to those attributes. His composure with the ball, the ability to pick a pass, and capacity to move forward with attacking moves are all much bigger reasons for him to attract a decent fee. Age and potential are also on his side. 

As you mention he's 22: how many his age, in his position, have the same talent he has and all the other skills you criticise him for not possessing? If such a player exists, they'd be worth over £100m. Take Virgil van Dijk, at the same age as Godfrey he joined Celtic for a few million. Since then he's developed into a world class player. There is a lot of time for Godfrey to improve the areas he's not hot on currently.

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5 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Defensive nous is defiantly a learnable skill, as Godfrey has only been a centre back for a couple of seasons I suspect he has a lot of room for growth. I also don’t think he is as bad at it as many here seem to think. 
 

I suspect he’d be the easiest to sell, and potentially at the highest fee. 

I still think Aaron's will be the easiest to sell ,for the highest fee as he is more the finished article.though I've been disappointed with his performances since the restart.😚

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Legend Iwan said:

To suggest Godfrey "looks the part" simply "because he's athletic and quick" is insulting. He's not being tracked by some of the biggest clubs in Europe due to those attributes. His composure with the ball, the ability to pick a pass, and capacity to move forward with attacking moves are all much bigger reasons for him to attract a decent fee. Age and potential are also on his side. 

As you mention he's 22: how many his age, in his position, have the same talent he has and all the other skills you criticise him for not possessing? If such a player exists, they'd be worth over £100m. Take Virgil van Dijk, at the same age as Godfrey he joined Celtic for a few million. Since then he's developed into a world class player. There is a lot of time for Godfrey to improve the areas he's not hot on currently.

I agree. Farke has spoken of Ben as potentially being "world class". I know this is a bit of a cliche but Farke is not someone who over elaborates or exaggerates in his use of language. I tend therefore to trust his opinion of Ben.

As for me, seeing his play with my eyes, I see a player of tremendous commitment. He never gives less than 100%. I'm convinced he has a future in the game at the highest levels. He is still learning and 22 is no age for a footballer. His best years are definitely ahead. I would love to see him stay of course.

It's been a long time as far as I'm concerned that we've had a really good CB. I'm sure Ben can be that one. He showed in the Championship too he has a decent shot, a raking pass and he can get his head on corners (away at Blackburn he nearly got 2). 

So if he must go, I'm all for bids well north of £25m. I would be the most sad if he departs (i.e. more than Max, Todd or Emi). 

Edited by sonyc

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36 minutes ago, Bonzo said:

Leitner, Raggett, Thompson, Heise and Morris all look like they may be on their way.

Mclean's contract runs out in 2021 as does Vrancic's so I suspect both or a least one of the two are candidates for departure. 

Klose is nearing the end of his career and contract but an in form Klose is a pretty awesome CB especially for Championship football plus given his age his resale value is not great. 

 

Add in McGovern and I would happily lose all of these this summer - simply put we need better for the long term plan.   However we are told there wont be huge scale player turnover so it seems unlikely that all will leave.   

Kenny and Mario can do a championship role next season but having both is likely to limit pitch time for their replacements; we need significantly more presence than either of these can give us and they are at an age where they wont be improving. 

Klose could be the tettey exception,  but his injury record is poor and he has struggled since his return;   not being fully recovered and only playing as others are injured is the only valid excuse;  if he was to get back to his physical best then maybe,   but otherwise cheerio. 

 

 

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We need a clear out, as Webber alludes too. 

Forget the Championship winning side to some degree, that would be incredibly difficult to achieve again with the same players. Mentally they are not the same players, not all of them anyway. Players become 'stale' and I doubt they're in the same head space or have the same motivations as before. They've been through a promotion and relegation, some are in the habit of losing, others frustrated by not playing.  There's been some splits in the squad too, Leitner springs to mind. A lot of emotional baggage! 

I think a few players likely to leave are;

Leitner, Vrancic (although I'd like to keep), Steipermann, Klose, Lewis, Godfrey, Buendia, Drmic and sadly Pukki. 

I think we might be able to keep Aarons - or at least have him back on loan from which ever club he ends up. I also don't see Cantwell getting the move many on here do. 

I have a feeling Rupp and Mclean are going to be a mainstay in midfield, with a bit of flair and attacking impetus built around them. If i could keep one player though, it would be Hernandez. He's got the passion and x-factor at championship level. Could be our star man.

Next year will be tough. I remember going down from the PL in 2005 and keeping Dean Ashton and Leon Mckenzie, plus a few others. Many thought we'd walk the league.. I think it took 5 games to register a win and we were dreadful! 

 

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Posted (edited)

Anyone who doesn't think McLean is an asset at championship level needs their head wobbled to see if the lights are still on. 

He's our one genuine all rounder central midfield asset. 

Edited by Jerrykerry
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Posted (edited)

Both Dave Freezer and Michael Bailey insinuating Vrancic and Stiepermann playing at the moments for their futures. If that's the case I think we can assume both could well be on their way.

I think there's an argument that a number of our players have probably taken us as far as they can. Vrancic and Stiepermann are probably among them. I would say Klose, Leitner and Trybull also could be up for the chop. Onel might also be another who could be sent on his way.

We wait and see. Will be a very interesting summer.

Edited by TheGoogler

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14 minutes ago, Jerrykerry said:

Anyone who doesn't think McLean is an asset at lower Scottish level needs their head wobbled to see if the lights are still on. 

He's our one genuine all rounder central midfield asset. 

All fixed

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1 hour ago, king canary said:

McLean is signed up to 2022. Also Bailey seemed to suggest that him and Krul may be in line for new deals this summer which may make a few posters heads explode.

Sign 'em up pdq in that case 🤣🤣

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My two penneth is that Godfrey is the one I would want at the top of my 'To stay' list, closely followed by Emi. I feel Godfrey will achieve the most success in the respective careers of our young group of current first team stars..

If they all stay then great, but......

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7 hours ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

With all this leaving talk, I presume we have a Plan B if Stuart Webber leaves?

Farke certainly won’t have!

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3 minutes ago, Highland Canary said:

The continual firesales will continue until there is new investment in the club.

What continual firesales?

Honestly, you're just being over dramatic.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Feedthewolf said:

I don't think they'd kill their careers by forcing the issue. Player (and agent) power is a massive thing; much as we'd be perfectly entitled to say to Emi "no, you have four years left on your contract here, you can either stay here and play well or you can throw your toys out of the pram and rot in the reserves", it doesn't make sense for club or player to do that.

We will be able to play hardball on fee, because everyone knows we have lots of assets and don't need to sell; however, the moment the player publicly states he wants to leave the club, the bargaining position weakens slightly and it's in everyone's interests to get a deal done.

As I see it, it's just a case of how much the player might be willing to back down and say "okay, if nobody meets the club's valuation of me I'm willing to stay until January and give 100% for Norwich".

Agreed, doesn't have to be acrimonious. Given the savvy nature of Webber , the above in your post will have been explained clearly  to the players with potential when they were given their long contracts. We'll  give you your chance but we will also demand a reasonable fee for you if you excel.  All of which , said in the right way ,says that we will not be bullied . 

Edited by wcorkcanary
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The model is to sell players to keep the owners in control. That is just fact. You could argue it's the model most owners with no capital use. 

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16 minutes ago, Highland Canary said:

The continual firesales will continue until there is new investment in the club.

 
Weird, because whatever you think of Webber, he's always got top dollar for his sales
 
noun
noun: firesale
  1. a sale of goods remaining after the destruction of commercial premises by fire.
    • a sale of goods or assets at a very low price, typically when the seller is facing bankruptcy.
 
 
 

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3 hours ago, Legend Iwan said:

To suggest Godfrey "looks the part" simply "because he's athletic and quick" is insulting. He's not being tracked by some of the biggest clubs in Europe due to those attributes. His composure with the ball, the ability to pick a pass, and capacity to move forward with attacking moves are all much bigger reasons for him to attract a decent fee. Age and potential are also on his side. 

As you mention he's 22: how many his age, in his position, have the same talent he has and all the other skills you criticise him for not possessing? If such a player exists, they'd be worth over £100m. Take Virgil van Dijk, at the same age as Godfrey he joined Celtic for a few million. Since then he's developed into a world class player. There is a lot of time for Godfrey to improve the areas he's not hot on currently.

Totally agree, I had the pleasure of watching van Dijk play as a 19 year old for Groningen in the Dutch eredivisie. He had so much class about him it was pretty clear he was going places. I firmly believe Godfrey has similar qualities And in a top 6 side he could, with a top class coach go a long way. 

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2 hours ago, TheGoogler said:

Both Dave Freezer and Michael Bailey insinuating Vrancic and Stiepermann playing at the moments for their futures. If that's the case I think we can assume both could well be on their way.

I think there's an argument that a number of our players have probably taken us as far as they can. Vrancic and Stiepermann are probably among them. I would say Klose, Leitner and Trybull also could be up for the chop. Onel might also be another who could be sent on his way.

We wait and see. Will be a very interesting summer.

I don’t think onel will, Farke was praising him in his presser

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