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cambridgeshire canary

Loan deals- Why do you think all of ours went wrong this season?

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Because I really do think Webber ows us an apology. The only one who played well, and even then it more of a 7/10 than an 8 was Amadou- And even then he decided he didn't want to be here anymore.

 

I have never been fond of loans, for many reasons. I think the money that goes on their wages can be spent better elsewhere for a start. 

 

I think the vast majority of loaned players will not and will never care about the club or fans they are loaned too.  

 

And why would they? Who cares if they play poorly, they can just swan off back to their club anytime they like. Yes, it's fair to therefore say they owe us nothing in a way, but I think most would agree that players that are loaned in don't tend to care for the club they are sent too.

 

They don't care about the fans, the team, the manager the staff or anyone else- They just care about trying to look good for their own club so they can go back and start for them. And if it doesn't work out oh well can always bail at anytime and go back home.

 

Anyone else just never been fond of loan players? 

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The season that we loaned Huckerby and Croach worked and goes to show what can happen if you do it properly. 

Our loan deals under Webber have been disasterous and he should bbe ashamed by them, but will he apologise?  Not a chance! 

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Webber did apologise in January. 
 

The loans couldn’t oust the players there were brought in to replace. The fact they were loans means Norwich didn’t spend £10m+ on transfer fees for them and could cut their loses early.

Duda started well but coming into a team on a downward slope is tough. It is also noticeable his performances started to decline when Hertha brought in a new manager who said he wanted to play Duda when he returned. He came here with something to prove to Klinsmann, but once that became immaterial he did seem to deteriorate dramatically. 
 

Loans are tough to get right as the player needs the right character and motivation. I’m not against them as a whole as there are many loans which are successes for Norwich or other clubs. Some players are better on loan than when they are made permanent signings. 

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Unfortunately, when Farke brought in lian loan players, he said our players aren't good enough and these new loans are so much better. 

I can't imagine that our players were too impressed when they arrived, I wasn't. 

Bear in mind that it's not just wages, a hefty loan fee is paid and at the end of the loan period, you don't have any assets to show for it.

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14 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Webber did apologise in January. 
 

The loans couldn’t oust the players there were brought in to replace. The fact they were loans means Norwich didn’t spend £10m+ on transfer fees for them and could cut their loses early.

Duda started well but coming into a team on a downward slope is tough. It is also noticeable his performances started to decline when Hertha brought in a new manager who said he wanted to play Duda when he returned. He came here with something to prove to Klinsmann, but once that became immaterial he did seem to deteriorate dramatically. 
 

Loans are tough to get right as the player needs the right character and motivation. I’m not against them as a whole as there are many loans which are successes for Norwich or other clubs. Some players are better on loan than when they are made permanent signings. 

David Nielsen and Moritz Leitner spring to mind.

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7 minutes ago, Number9 said:

Unfortunately, when Farke brought in lian loan players, he said our players aren't good enough and these new loans are so much better. 

I can't imagine that our players were too impressed when they arrived, I wasn't. 

Bear in mind that it's not just wages, a hefty loan fee is paid and at the end of the loan period, you don't have any assets to show for it.

The first bit just isn’t true. 

Farke always said that the promotion winning team would be given the first chance this season. He said all new players would have to earn their place in the team - which they failed to do.

While no ‘assets’ from the loan deals, they also have no ongoing liabilities. With the Amadou deal his price was £12m, Norwich weren’t sure if he’d be the right player so said they’d only take him on loan and pay the full fee should they want to at the end of the season. By taking him on loan they saved themselves a huge amount of money for a player they’d now be desperate of offload  

 

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11 minutes ago, Number9 said:

Unfortunately, when Farke brought in lian loan players, he said our players aren't good enough and these new loans are so much better. 

I can't imagine that our players were too impressed when they arrived, I wasn't. 

Bear in mind that it's not just wages, a hefty loan fee is paid and at the end of the loan period, you don't have any assets to show for it.

Did he actually say that?

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we went bargain basement with the loans (Roberts) and Fahrmann got unlucky with injuries and missed his chance to oust Krul.

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7 minutes ago, Number9 said:

Unfortunately, when Farke brought in lian loan players, he said our players aren't good enough and these new loans are so much better. 

I can't imagine that our players were too impressed when they arrived, I wasn't. 

Bear in mind that it's not just wages, a hefty loan fee is paid and at the end of the loan period, you don't have any assets to show for it.

The Only player that we brought in, that was an improvement was Sam Byram, The rest were DISMAL.
Until we get a solid defence and scrap zonal marking, we will continue to leak goals. We did in the Championsip as well as the premier league, just the championship defences were in some cases as poor as ours.

IF and WHEN, we sell our youngsters, we need a new defence, and cut out the mistakes, game after game.

Next season will be hard, to recover from this dismal effort.

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46 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Because I really do think Webber ows us an apology. The only one who played well, and even then it more of a 7/10 than an 8 was Amadou- And even then he decided he didn't want to be here anymore.

I have never been fond of loans, for many reasons. I think the money that goes on their wages can be spent better elsewhere for a start. 

I think the vast majority of loaned players will not and will never care about the club or fans they are loaned too.  

And why would they? Who cares if they play poorly, they can just swan off back to their club anytime they like. Yes, it's fair to therefore say they owe us nothing in a way, but I think most would agree that players that are loaned in don't tend to care for the club they are sent too.

They don't care about the fans, the team, the manager the staff or anyone else- They just care about trying to look good for their own club so they can go back and start for them. And if it doesn't work out oh well can always bail at anytime and go back home.

Anyone else just never been fond of loan players? 

The loan system is perfectly fine when you use it smartly.

Signing Amadou (who I would not have said "played well" at any point, he had good spells as well as poor spells) didn't work because he didn't have the sort of passing ability required to play the position he was bought in for. That's a failing of our recruitment team. 

Again, Patrick Roberts was brought in as the winger we all acknowledged was needed to offer width and pace. That didn't work because he didn't work hard enough to get himself ahead of others and was not good enough to play in the Premier League. The fact he's now on the bench in a relegation fight in the Championship again speaks volumes. However, there's no doubt in my mind he's a player of significant potential. If he had been signed permanently, then this might have yet become a decent signing. As a loan, he lacked the ability to make the immediate impact in the Premier League. Again, an issue with recruitment.

Ralf Fahrmann came here expecting to become Norwich's #1. It didn't happen not because of anything he did or did not do, it did not happen because Krul was superb. Not really any person's individual fault. 

Ondrej Duda. A Slovenian international. Scored goals from attacking midfield in the Bundesliga very recently.  Too light weight and not played enough to come in in January and make the immediate impact required. Again, a failure of recruitment, I would say.

I would say that of the four loans we've had, three of them have not been successful because they did not adequately reflect the levels required for the Premier League or to adequately perform in the roles they were brought in to do. 

That doesn't mean the loan doesn't have it's place. Darren Huckerby is the perfect example of this. Hucks came in from Man City, on a much higher wage than we could afford and looking for somewhere he could showcase his talents to hopefully attract bigger and better offers. However, he fell in love with the club, just as we fell for him. That has begun a love affair that continues even to this day. Norwich is often a club that needs to be experienced before players feel able to commit. The loan system offers that chance. And in turn it offers us the chance to obtain a player for a short time that otherwise would have been out of our reach. Webber needs to work on finding the right player.

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One line in mitigation for Amadou, only played one game in the position he was brought in to play, then moved to his less preferred role, didn’t play any badly than some of the permanent defenders then totally unused by Farke. Things could have been different had he got a run in DM.

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I am a fan of loans, just because we’ve not used them well at times doesn’t make them ‘bad’.  As Bethnal says, look at Amadou - we saved a tonne of cash loaning rather than buying him. They allow you to get a better player than you can afford now and might be in a position to buy later; yes, they may be used as a stepping stone by the player but on the player’s side there’s little point in not trying if you want to impress your parent club/think you might want to move on. 
 

 

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1 hour ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

The first bit just isn’t true. 

Farke always said that the promotion winning team would be given the first chance this season. He said all new players would have to earn their place in the team - which they failed to do.

While no ‘assets’ from the loan deals, they also have no ongoing liabilities. With the Amadou deal his price was £12m, Norwich weren’t sure if he’d be the right player so said they’d only take him on loan and pay the full fee should they want to at the end of the season. By taking him on loan they saved themselves a huge amount of money for a player they’d now be desperate of offload  

 

 

1 hour ago, Herman said:

Did he actually say that?

Unfortunately City fans are the same as many other football fans, we don't always listen carefully to what is said. 

In January for instance Farke was making quite a point of praising up Rupp and Duda while, possibly unintentionally, saying our existing players aren't good enough. 

Sadly he often does this, I don't know whether that's because of second language issues or just poorly chosen words, but he does say strange things at times. 

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We came up this season thinking we could play it like we did the Championship- just like at first Farke tried to play like he did with Dortmund II in 3. Liga until Millwall took us round the corner.

Webber and Farke have definitely been taught a lesson about how much they knew this year. I calmly anticipate a good response.

 

 

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I think fahrmann may have pushed krul to perform at the level we wanted. 

But again other players did not step up at the front defensively to help krul be not so relied on.

Also fahrmann did come in for krul in a prem game and got injured he could have held the position then. So that did play to our advantage and he was unlucky that his moment was hindered in a prem game when he got injured.

Amadou, it was the most glaring signing we needed. I know we have all discussed the physicality, I was all for him and Tettey as the defensive pair allowing the full backs to bomb on.

He was left out at the start of the season as he settled and then the injuries racked up and he deployed as a centre back. Then when he was in defensive midfield two I think it was southampton we again had an array of injuries and then a tactic change.

So I think he also was a loan that failed with the circumstances of injuries and coming in so late.

Roberts, I cannot judge never saw him and Cantwell raised his game.

Duda came in and has not raised the position to the level we needed.

I just think the view of the players that got us up are the players to move us in the prem is not always the best strategy. Of course they can be given a go but imrpive your first 11 and have those players on the bench and see how they raise their game. Injuries will happen and your team should be ready.

Unfortunately a lot went wrong very early on and the season had must win games early doors.

We had a 6 pointer against Newcastle at home and did ths business but then after many clutch games we were short. We knew we had a mini relegation league, we just didnt do well at those points. 

I think as a fanbase we are very aware of what is needed in the squad following a promotion as we have seen our squad go up and down. I do think we all knew it would be mightily hard this season and we still had not learnt from years past.

I am however aware now we have a good crop of players we can sell on, and I think we should, and we reinvest in a more balanced team and look at the spine of the team for a team aiming for promotion.

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I think you have to look at the level in which you are bringing these players in to compete in. 
 

this isn’t like the Championship where you maybe are bringing in players from top leagues abroad to get game time or experience. This is bringing in players from abroad who are deemed not good enough for their current team who are more than likely not playing is such a competitive and hard league. We have the current champions league and world club champion in our league. These guy just aren’t good enough! Simple. 
We’re not loaning world class players who don’t want to play for their parent clubs were loaning not good enough players who can’t get a game for their parent clubs!

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On 12/07/2020 at 08:51, Herman said:

Did he actually say that?

Webber again today saying our players just not good enough. 

He's trying to deflect blame away from Farke for relegation but come on, continually telling them that they're not good enough?

I'm not a psychologist but I know better than to repeatedly say that people aren't good enough. 

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