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Stuart Webber where are you ?

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28 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

Delia Is In Charge And Indy is 100 % She can turn Sour Very Quickly Ask Moxey ha !!

 

Pretty much sums it up....👍😉

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3 hours ago, Move Klose said:

 

The money which has been spent on training facilities and youth set up, that should've been done years ago when we had 3 consecutive seasons in the prem.

Is it right to credit webber with the training ground transformation ? Steve Stone and Ed balls were still around when the bond was offered and as I recall the plans were very advanced even by this point. I honestly can't recall

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27 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Is it right to credit webber with the training ground transformation ? Steve Stone and Ed balls were still around when the bond was offered and as I recall the plans were very advanced even by this point. I honestly can't recall

Delia is in charge so surely must get the credit.

Although nephew Tom had a hand in it. As did Steve Stone, Stuart Webber and Zoe Ward.

Prior to the bond i believe they were scraping together any unbudgeted income like that from the Arsenal cup game.

Getting outside investment from the supportive community made perfect sense.

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10 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Delia is in charge so surely must get the credit.

Although nephew Tom had a hand in it. As did Steve Stone, Stuart Webber and Zoe Ward.

Prior to the bond i believe they were scraping together any unbudgeted income like that from the Arsenal cup game.

Getting outside investment from the supportive community made perfect sense.

Hi Nutty hope you are well other than the football side of things ! 

This is were we differ i think that is when Delia should have put the club up for sale 

It was plain to see we were running out of money and had to ask the fans to invest in the training ground etc 

what Delia was saying was she could not afford or would not pay for the training ground so she asked the fans investment etc 

Webber and Farke have said if it was not for the Maddison money it would have been a real sticky wicket with if the club would be here 

that is when Delia should have said i have had my time now i can not afford this no more time for someone else , i am putting the club up for sale in my eyes 

 

Edited by norfolkngood
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10 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

Hi Nutty hope you are well other than the football side of things ! 

This is were we differ i think that is when Delia should have put the club up for sale 

It was plain to see we were running out of money and had to ask the fans to invest in the training ground etc 

what Delia was saying was she could not afford or would not pay for the training ground so she asked the fans investment etc 

Webber and Farke have said if it was not for the Maddison money it would have been a real sticky wicket with if the club would be here 

that is when Delia should have said i have had my time now i can not afford this no more time for someone else , i am putting the club up for sale in my eyes 

 

All good thanks Norfolk. Hope you're all well and happy.

We do differ. I very much like our owners community model and I assume you prefer the the Chase model but with more funds. The two are unreconcilable so we will always differ.

However Delia and Michael are no more necessary for the ethos I like than a rich Chase is for yours. That is never understood on here.

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33 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Delia is in charge so surely must get the credit.

Although nephew Tom had a hand in it. As did Steve Stone, Stuart Webber and Zoe Ward.

Prior to the bond i believe they were scraping together any unbudgeted income like that from the Arsenal cup game.

Getting outside investment from the supportive community made perfect sense.

So the plans for the upgrade pre-date webber.  What post dates his appointment was the decision to fund it through a community bond?  The decision to go to a bond was collective but ultimately stone and Smith were in charge?

 

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15 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

So the plans for the upgrade pre-date webber.  What post dates his appointment was the decision to fund it through a community bond?  The decision to go to a bond was collective but ultimately stone and Smith were in charge?

 

No. Webber, Farke and Stone were all there when we played arsenal in the cup. Maybe Balls was too? Not sure when he went. Webber and Stone worked together for quite awhile.

Just checked. Ed Balls was there until Dec 18. The bond was the previous March?

 

Edited by nutty nigel

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36 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

All good thanks Norfolk. Hope you're all well and happy.

We do differ. I very much like our owners community model and I assume you prefer the the Chase model but with more funds. The two are unreconcilable so we will always differ.

However Delia and Michael are no more necessary for the ethos I like than a rich Chase is for yours. That is never understood on here.

Norfolk said nothing about Chase

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8 minutes ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

Norfolk said nothing about Chase

He also said nothing about Wynnie. Not sure what point you're trying to make.

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If you don't like it being referred to as the chase model. I'll happily replace that reference with Evans. Interestingly he took the club out of the community but is now wanting them to help out...

 

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2 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

If you don't like it being referred to as the chase model. I'll happily replace that reference with Evans. Interestingly he took the club out of the community but is now wanting them to help out...

 

Nutty i remember going to games back then but what happened to chase in the end i remember th protest but did he sell or force to sell take over ? and watling sold because the club was in trouble to Delia ? 

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3 hours ago, norfolkngood said:

Nutty i remember going to games back then but what happened to chase in the end i remember th protest but did he sell or force to sell take over ? and watling sold because the club was in trouble to Delia ? 

If there was a FAQ on this messageboard this would probably be top.

The end was a long drawn out period of protests and acrimony. It started while we were still in the PL and lasted the best part of two seasons. He finally stepped down in May 1996 saying he'd found the right man at the right price and sold his shares to Geoffrey Watling. But by the time Chase had gone our club was staring bankruptcy in the face. Gordon Bennett said at the time "The bank was going potty.  We'd sold Ashley Ward and Jon Newsome for 2.5m and that had hardly brought a month’s grace". Bennett also said that "Probably the only reason that the club is still in existence is the fact that Mr Watling bought those shares and put up seven-figure guarantees at the bank."

Martin Armstrong was Watling’s man and it was him who approached Delia, MWJ and I believe Michael Foulger who all put in half a million each and were given a seat on the board. That all happened in the summer of 1996.

It wasn’t until December 1997 that Geoffrey Watling sold the shares he brought from Chase and his own original shareholding to Delia and MWJ.

I’ve got a lot of reports and statements from that time. I must have posted them all on here over the years. But I don’t have the answer to one related question that crops up nearly as often….

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31 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

If there was a FAQ on this messageboard this would probably be top.

The end was a long drawn out period of protests and acrimony. It started while we were still in the PL and lasted the best part of two seasons. He finally stepped down in May 1996 saying he'd found the right man at the right price and sold his shares to Geoffrey Watling. But by the time Chase had gone our club was staring bankruptcy in the face. Gordon Bennett said at the time "The bank was going potty.  We'd sold Ashley Ward and Jon Newsome for 2.5m and that had hardly brought a month’s grace". Bennett also said that "Probably the only reason that the club is still in existence is the fact that Mr Watling bought those shares and put up seven-figure guarantees at the bank."

Martin Armstrong was Watling’s man and it was him who approached Delia, MWJ and I believe Michael Foulger who all put in half a million each and were given a seat on the board. That all happened in the summer of 1996.

It wasn’t until December 1997 that Geoffrey Watling sold the shares he brought from Chase and his own original shareholding to Delia and MWJ.

I’ve got a lot of reports and statements from that time. I must have posted them all on here over the years. But I don’t have the answer to one related question that crops up nearly as often….

Thanks Nutty I used to go to games at Time and remember the Protests  But could not remember what went on at board level  etc 

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2 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

If there was a FAQ on this messageboard this would probably be top.

The end was a long drawn out period of protests and acrimony. It started while we were still in the PL and lasted the best part of two seasons. He finally stepped down in May 1996 saying he'd found the right man at the right price and sold his shares to Geoffrey Watling. But by the time Chase had gone our club was staring bankruptcy in the face. Gordon Bennett said at the time "The bank was going potty.  We'd sold Ashley Ward and Jon Newsome for 2.5m and that had hardly brought a month’s grace". Bennett also said that "Probably the only reason that the club is still in existence is the fact that Mr Watling bought those shares and put up seven-figure guarantees at the bank."

Martin Armstrong was Watling’s man and it was him who approached Delia, MWJ and I believe Michael Foulger who all put in half a million each and were given a seat on the board. That all happened in the summer of 1996.

It wasn’t until December 1997 that Geoffrey Watling sold the shares he brought from Chase and his own original shareholding to Delia and MWJ.

I’ve got a lot of reports and statements from that time. I must have posted them all on here over the years. But I don’t have the answer to one related question that crops up nearly as often….

I remember driving through the East Midlands at this time and found myself behind a white van with a 'CHASE OUT' sticker. Secondly, apart from  back in the 1950s, when the club desperately needed money and it got as bad as cash being thrown into blankets (I think an infant Nutty may have been chucked in as well, but that is another story...), the Chase collapse was the one time since then when the club was in really serious financial trouble, with extreme measures needed.

That has not happened since. There have been times when the finances were stretched; and significant changes necesary for what was a manageable problem,  but nothing like the mess of the mid-1990s.

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11 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

If you don't like it being referred to as the chase model. I'll happily replace that reference with Evans. Interestingly he took the club out of the community but is now wanting them to help out...

Interesting that you would compare Chase with Evans, I don't really see the similarities. 

Evans is the primary creditor of Ipswich Town and charges them something like 5 percent interest on the debt. When they do change owner the new owner will either have to pay off that debt or agree to carry it over and pay him interest. I don't recall Chase being owed money.

Evans has left Portman Road and their training ground to rot. Chase built 2 (or was it 3?) new stands and purchased a new larger training ground with purpose built facilities. 

Chase left us with a freehold stadium and acquired additional land which generated a substantial profit for the club when sold to developers. Portman Road is leased from the local council.

Chase got in a pickle at the end but it was probably the ambitious purchase of 25 acres of land at Colney and development of the facilities in the 1994/95 season which caused that.  

Chase in hindsight was ambitious and had the clubs long term interests at heart, the stands that he built, the land that he acquired, Colney... The regime which followed and the city as a whole have benefitted enormously from all of this. 

Evans will leave Ipswich with nothing of value. 

Chase had Norwich in the top tier for most of his reign and into Europe, Evans has never reached the top tier and has taken Ipswich to the third tier. 

Chase gets an unfair rap on here, but we probably wouldn't have the status that we do in the game if it weren't for him. 

When he left the club in 96 we also had Bellamy, Eadie, Mills and Green sitting on the books. 

The reality is that he over leveraged towards the end, had to sell players and couldn't replace departing players with quality because he had to fund the completion of the development of Colney, not because he was 'greedy' as many argued. But where would we be without Colney? It's the beating heart of the Webber project and the academy that you cherish and work hard fundraising for.

Did Watling and Delia save the club between them? Probably, but Chase made it a club worth saving with assets worth owning including a developed Carrow Road and a quality training ground and a bank of land which he had the foresight to see would be worth a lot of money somewhere down the line. 

He is a large part of the reason why we are where we are. He was probably reluctant to let go of what he'd built, but build it he did. 

Most of you will sit in stands that he built, celebrating an academy based at a training ground he built. Is it irony or ignorance when people slag him off? 

It's unfortunate that Delia also got us in a financial pickle, and had to plonk that hideous hotel in the corner of the ground. It takes away the ability to have a complete four corner stadium as Chase envisaged.

It's fine to point out that Chase took us to the brink, but hasn't Delia taken us there twice? We were desperate enough to sell the hotel land for £1m. 

 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten
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2 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

I remember driving through the East Midlands at this time and found myself behind a white van with a 'CHASE OUT' sticker. Secondly, apart from  back in the 1950s, when the club desperately needed money and it got as bad as cash being thrown into blankets (I think an infant Nutty may have been chucked in as well, but that is another story...), the Chase collapse was the one time since then when the club was in really serious financial trouble, with extreme measures needed.

That has not happened since. There have been times when the finances were stretched; and significant changes necesary for what was a manageable problem,  but nothing like the mess of the mid-1990s.

Really? Because McNally confirmed that the club was very close to administration in Autumn 2009, £23m in debt and in League One and that him and Bowkett had to produce an urgent business turnaround plan. It was miraculous that they managed to convince the banks to give us a one year payment holiday during the credit crunch. That together with fans giving up a season ticket rebate (21st century blanket) and Foulger loaning the club money. 

Always consider it odd that people slag McNally off on here, and point out the Naismith and Jarvis window, and allow Webber to have digs at him when him and Bowkett pulled us back from the brink in 2009. Especially as I believe the Naismith window was also the James Maddison window and the £23m we got for him pretty much paid for the whole window!  

Prior to this we had Doncaster admitting that the club were desperate for money when selling the corner land to Holiday Inn for £1m and we had Roeder given no summer transfer budget after the Turner's changed their mind about loaning us £2m. 

McNally and Bowkett saved this club from financial disaster, or at least from becoming council tenants like Ipswich Town. Selling Carrow Road was their plan B, sounds like serious financial trouble to me. Wouldn't have got a good price for the ground in 2009 either, not during the crash. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten
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36 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Really?

 

Because McNally confirmed that the club was very close to administration in Autumn 2009, £23m in debt and in League One and that him and Bowkett had to produce an urgent business turnaround plan. It was miraculous that they managed to convince the banks to give us a one year payment holiday during the credit crunch. That together with fans giving up a season ticket rebate (21st century blanket) and Foulger loaning the club money. 

Always consider it odd that people slag McNally off on here, and point out the Naismith and Jarvis window, and allow Webber to have digs at him when him and Bowkett pulled us back from the brink in 2009. Especially as I believe the Naismith window was also the James Maddison window and the £23m we got for him pretty much paid for the whole window!  

Prior to this we had Doncaster admitting that the club were desperate for money when selling the corner land to Holiday Inn for £1m and we had Roeder given no summer transfer budget after the Turner's changed their mind about loaning us £2m. 

McNally and Bowkett saved this club from financial disaster, or at least from becoming council tenants like Ipswich Town. Selling Carrow Road was their plan B, sounds like serious financial trouble to me. Wouldn't have got a good price for the ground in 2009 either, not during the crash. 

The short answer is: Yes, really. If 2009 was so miraculous how come it happened on the terms it did,  such as including our lenders giving us more time to pay off what we owed? There is a longer answer, but certainly not now.

Edited by PurpleCanary

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Interesting debate. Not sure that I wish to comment pre 2009. We have of course made significant strides since then on the pitch with 8 out of the last 10 seasons in the Premier League.

That enhances budgets significantly with a Total Club turnover of £500 million beyond 2009 and prior to the bond issue.

Shouldn't good premises and financial management then have resulted in being able to set 1% of that aside for development of the training ground without the need for wasting £2 million?

Resource management is key. Sometimes it has been great eg. Maddison. Sometimes there is room for improvement.

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6 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

The short answer is: Yes, really. If 2009 was so miraculous how come it happened on the terms it did,  such as including our lenders giving us more time to pay off what we owed? There is a longer answer, but certainly not now.

Remember this? https://www.pinkun.com/norwich-city/norwich-city-prepared-to-sue-over-false-administration-claim-1-646471

And then 9 months later, this? https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11709/6397390/norwich-admin-threat-revealed

Seems to be an admission that the NOTW, although wrong about January, were only a few months out. 

I mean, straight from the horses mouth:

"We needed to ensure we survived as a football club last autumn because it did get very close. Administration was a real possibility last autumn"

I suspect the fact that the club got as far as knowing that £34.5m was how much they could get for Carrow Road, and £1m a year was how much they'd have to pay to remain tenants, was what persuaded the primary creditors to suspend debt repayments for a year. Our debt was £23m with projected further losses of £5m. 

In order to know that the cost to lease the stadium back was £1m a year, they must have had a potential buyer lined up, how else would they know this? Must say though that 3% yield is very poor for the buyer, can only assume institutional investor as interest rates were falling fast at the time or major land banker hoping that the club would break the terms of the lease so they could build luxury apartments. 

Essentially our debt was secured against Carrow Road. That doesn't look like the healthiest position in the world to me, failure to win promotion and I'm sure we'd have lost Carrow Road unless external investment could be found.

And people wonder why Cullum valued the clubs shares at £0 and committed only to injecting £20m of directors loans into the club in exchange for ownership. He offered £0 because that's how much a business teetering on the edge is worth.

What we really need is a tell all book by David McNally.

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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15 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Remember this? https://www.pinkun.com/norwich-city/norwich-city-prepared-to-sue-over-false-administration-claim-1-646471

And then 9 months later, this? https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11709/6397390/norwich-admin-threat-revealed

Seems to be an admission that the NOTW, although wrong about January, were only a few months out. 

I mean, straight from the horses mouth:

"We needed to ensure we survived as a football club last autumn because it did get very close. Administration was a real possibility last autumn"

I suspect the fact that the club got as far as knowing that £34.5m was how much they could get for Carrow Road, and £1m a year was how much they'd have to pay to remain tenants, was what persuaded the primary creditors to suspend debt repayments for a year. Our debt was £23m. 

Essentially our debt was secured against Carrow Road. That doesn't look like the healthiest position in the world to me, failure to win promotion and I'm sure we'd have lost Carrow Road. 

Doesn’t fit with the narrative some on here want to peddle about the club not being risked by Delia’s tiny net worth.

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On 11/07/2020 at 18:35, sgncfc said:

I'm not sure what else you are all expecting him to say. He was honest about our chances from the promotion party onwards, it's just that too many supporters got carried away with optimism and bravado. We were never good enough, even with a full squad, so the injuries and behind closed doors ending gave us no chance whatsoever.

I know you'll all tell me I'm wrong, but I detest the EPL and everything about it. I'm delighted that we're back in the Championship and I genuinely don't want to get promotion again unless we have the funding to compete, because it is completely pointless and soul-destroying. And if Delia doesn't want to sell, that means never. So be it, I'm not going to criticise her for wanting to ensure the continuance of the club she loves, even if it restricts our ambition.

The FA should let clubs like us sell our place if we win promotion to one of the billionaire owners who are so desperate to get there. We could probably have got £200m from Leeds last year and had another great season in the Championship....

Whilst I agree with you that it’s soul destroying  being in the premier under them it’s equally soul destroying reading comments like this. This is what their selfish stance has reduced large sections of our fan base to.

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On 11/07/2020 at 19:35, sgncfc said:

I'm not sure what else you are all expecting him to say. He was honest about our chances from the promotion party onwards, it's just that too many supporters got carried away with optimism and bravado. We were never good enough, even with a full squad, so the injuries and behind closed doors ending gave us no chance whatsoever.

I know you'll all tell me I'm wrong, but I detest the EPL and everything about it. I'm delighted that we're back in the Championship and I genuinely don't want to get promotion again unless we have the funding to compete, because it is completely pointless and soul-destroying. And if Delia doesn't want to sell, that means never. So be it, I'm not going to criticise her for wanting to ensure the continuance of the club she loves, even if it restricts our ambition.

The FA should let clubs like us sell our place if we win promotion to one of the billionaire owners who are so desperate to get there. We could probably have got £200m from Leeds last year and had another great season in the Championship....

This echoes how I am feeling about it , with the exception of the "selling our place" bit. It's still a sport (I think)... That's the biggest problem with football , it has become so much big business that the factor sport has become a "smaller" part... I am disgusted by all the money in it and I agree it is soul destroying and feels completely pointless going up... 

I used to be a very passionate football fan , but I have become a passionate City fan that doesn't really follow the PL in general any more , neither do I watch the Champions "Money" league ,where the rich just get richer... 
For me the sport has suffered enormously under the big business. I studied economics and understand how this has grown , but I don't like it ... especially because my club can't compete , just because of the riches that are so unfairly distributed. Championship is a great league where the money has less influence , I say less but that doesn't mean no influence!!!  

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11 hours ago, Duncan Edwards said:

So how much did Watling wallet when he sold his shares? 

It is written on the back of Tangy's fag packet if you can find it or him ?

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55 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Doesn’t fit with the narrative some on here want to peddle about the club not being risked by Delia’s tiny net worth.

“Community club” keep telling yourself that, apparently it makes you feel better for all of their failings!

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42 minutes ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

“Community club” keep telling yourself that, apparently it makes you feel better for all of their failings!

This is what we deserve. We should be happy.... we are very lucky 😆

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For those who do want to hear from Webber, Paddy has just tweeted they've got an extensive interview with him going up this afternoon.

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9 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Interesting that you would compare Chase with Evans, I don't really see the similarities. 

Evans is the primary creditor of Ipswich Town and charges them something like 5 percent interest on the debt. When they do change owner the new owner will either have to pay off that debt or agree to carry it over and pay him interest. I don't recall Chase being owed money.

Evans has left Portman Road and their training ground to rot. Chase built 2 (or was it 3?) new stands and purchased a new larger training ground with purpose built facilities. 

Chase left us with a freehold stadium and acquired additional land which generated a substantial profit for the club when sold to developers. Portman Road is leased from the local council.

Chase got in a pickle at the end but it was probably the ambitious purchase of 25 acres of land at Colney and development of the facilities in the 1994/95 season which caused that.  

Chase in hindsight was ambitious and had the clubs long term interests at heart, the stands that he built, the land that he acquired, Colney... The regime which followed and the city as a whole have benefitted enormously from all of this. 

Evans will leave Ipswich with nothing of value. 

Chase had Norwich in the top tier for most of his reign and into Europe, Evans has never reached the top tier and has taken Ipswich to the third tier. 

Chase gets an unfair rap on here, but we probably wouldn't have the status that we do in the game if it weren't for him. 

When he left the club in 96 we also had Bellamy, Eadie, Mills and Green sitting on the books. 

The reality is that he over leveraged towards the end, had to sell players and couldn't replace departing players with quality because he had to fund the completion of the development of Colney, not because he was 'greedy' as many argued. But where would we be without Colney? It's the beating heart of the Webber project and the academy that you cherish and work hard fundraising for.

Did Watling and Delia save the club between them? Probably, but Chase made it a club worth saving with assets worth owning including a developed Carrow Road and a quality training ground and a bank of land which he had the foresight to see would be worth a lot of money somewhere down the line. 

He is a large part of the reason why we are where we are. He was probably reluctant to let go of what he'd built, but build it he did. 

Most of you will sit in stands that he built, celebrating an academy based at a training ground he built. Is it irony or ignorance when people slag him off? 

It's unfortunate that Delia also got us in a financial pickle, and had to plonk that hideous hotel in the corner of the ground. It takes away the ability to have a complete four corner stadium as Chase envisaged.

It's fine to point out that Chase took us to the brink, but hasn't Delia taken us there twice? We were desperate enough to sell the hotel land for £1m. 

 

I referred to the way the club is run. I mentioned Chase, another poster didn't like the reference so I mentioned Evans.

Norfolk then asked me what happened when Chase left. 

Two different issues.

As for being on the brink we have never since come close to what happened in 1996.

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44 minutes ago, king canary said:

For those who do want to hear from Webber, Paddy has just tweeted they've got an extensive interview with him going up this afternoon.

I knew we'd bounce back but I wasn't expecting it that quickly. 😀

 

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