Jump to content

Recommended Posts

I personally think Zimmerman,but Hernandez,Hanley and byram have been badly missed,Less so drmic and klose. Otbc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be fair, the whole injury situation in sum has been horrific to our season.

Granted, it is not the only reason.

But the timings etc. have been a real contribution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Zimmermann all day long as he has not be right since way back when we played West Ham away. He should never have played that day just days after he limped away from the defeat at Crawley.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Michael Wynless Jones said:

Yep, Zimmermann by a long way, as stated he shouldn't have really played at West Ham, but we were desperate.  Still can't believe Yarmelenko didn't get sent off.

Don't think it was yarmaelenko that tackled him ,I think it was haller but deffo red regardless. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Canary dwarf said:

Don't think it was yarmaelenko that tackled him ,I think it was haller but deffo red regardless. 

You are indeed correct, probably why Yarmaelenko wasn't sent off for it 😁

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Michael Wynless Jones said:

You are indeed correct, probably why Yarmaelenko wasn't sent off for it 😁

Thank you, nice username bruv 😁

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hanley as he shows some leadership in defence when we have lacked it. Byram as he can play either side and cover so Jamal and Max could've had more recuperation time. And Hernandez causes other teams a problem was definitely missed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Zimmerman, partially because of all the other injuries in the same position but also because I think him and Godfrey as a partnership could have been good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Zimbo offers a kind of captain's role too. Always shouting instructions, organising. I think we would be have been more competitive with him. Our biggest loss, agree with the OP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Zimmermann all day long as he has not be right since way back when we played West Ham away. He should never have played that day just days after he limped away from the defeat at Crawley.

Zimmerman and Godfrey were the knly ‘fit’ centre backs that day and we had been desperate for him to get back in the side. It was that crucial period of games between the international breaks where we had West Ham, Burnley, Watford and Villa and lost them all that killed our season before Christmas. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Zimmerman, partially because of all the other injuries in the same position but also because I think him and Godfrey as a partnership could have been good.

I think Godfrey could learn from him ,in the same way as every Liverpool player has learnt from van dike.😁

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, WD40 said:

Zimmerman and Godfrey were the knly ‘fit’ centre backs that day and we had been desperate for him to get back in the side. It was that crucial period of games between the international breaks where we had West Ham, Burnley, Watford and Villa and lost them all that killed our season before Christmas. 

If only...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The real killer was that *both* Zimmerman and Hanley (and Klose of course) had serious injuries which kept them out for long spells. If one of the two had always been available when the other was out, we would have been much better off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we would have started with Klose and Zimmermann if both had been fit. Of the two, Klose was the one with some experience of both PL and internationally paced football, so it would have been astonishing if he had not been the first name on the teamsheet. I still think when match fit he is our best CB and I hope he stays to lead us again next season - hopefully alongside Zimbo, McCallum and Byram (assuming we do cash in on Godfrey, Aarons and Lewis).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

All teams seem to have hefty injury problems these days. The Dave Stringer syndrome, whereby a player  hardly ever misses out season after season for getting on for 500 games rarely exists nowadays.Who in our squad has been totally injury free over the last twelve months? Even Kenny McClean, who has seemed our Mr.Teflon, succumbed this week.

Players are like finally honed thoroughbreds nowadays with individualised training schedules, constant monitoring of everything from testosterone levels to weight watchers diets and strict, nut cutlet and wheatgerm eating regimes. Wrapped up in cotton wool they seem to be more vulnerable to the slightest knock, or even a slip when descending the staircase at home. Physio and medical departments at your average premier club's training ground seem better staffed that the local A & E at times. Treatment tables abound with every muscle and sinew carefully tended to by man in a white coat or a designer track-suit, Fitbit at the ready. Is there even a resident hair stylist because some seem to have a different cut each week?

The fag-smoking, fry-up, beer and bookie's in the afternoon brigade; after a few jogs around the pitch and a five-a-side in the morning, seemed more durable even after kicking lumps out of each other (whilst stuffed with pain killers) each Saturday afternoon  ... if they even existed as anything more than a myth in our search for the mostagia of the "real"  game before Sky tv.. 

The cruel thing about City's crisis was that it pin-pointed central defenders with a clear debilitating effect. Tettey, written off as an ageing, injury prone part  timer needed as an emergency centre back against Premier League attackers? Unimaginable in our wildest nightmares. This factor of injuries hitting central defenders is the single most significant hurdle contributing to a poor season, imo, in which little has gone our way, from the failure of the Summer acquisitions to live up to expectations, to VAR to the pandemic and an empty Carrow Road at a crucial time. Mind you, Drmic and Duda coming in during the last window was bizarre when it was clear emergency treatment of the defence was vital. 

I too select Zimmermann, and also feel that there is something in Pukki's injury that has inhibited his performances more than some realise.

Edited by BroadstairsR
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Zimm for me too, if I had to pick one, but the combination of losing Klose, Hanley, Zimmermann and even Godfrey for a shorter period, earlier this year I think, seriously hamstrung (pardon the pun) defensive solidity, options, tactical flexibility & general confidence in the 'spine'. Our ineffectiveness at set-pieces, both defensively & offensively has been linked to this unfortunate situation which has been very costly; so crucial for a club scrapping for 17th. It also contributed to Amadou never finding his feet, although perhaps that was just poor recruitment. Hopes were pinned on Amadou to be the enforcer, backed up by Tettey. Who could have foreseen how important Tetts would be this year? Teams slice through us without him, and sometimes do even with him. 😌

With hindsight, I think quite a few rode the positivity from last season into this, myself included. I was generally happy with the gaps that were filled with the recruitment at the time. I expected a struggle and a number of heavy defeats and knew we would be vulnerable at the back with such a reliance on youth. But I thought we would be competitive in most games, learn how to grind out draws and a few ugly 1-0 wins, compete in midfield (see Leitner & Amadou, backed up by Vrancic & Tettey) and be able to actually rattle the onion-bag in most games (beyond Pukki alone). 

Momentum was crudely stunted by CB injuries, Byram struggled for fitness, losing Hernandez was a blow, Leitner disappeared(?), Amadou was quickly disregarded, quite a few players (e.g. Stiepermann, Trybull, Vrancic, McLean, Drmic) seem to have struggled with the step-up in quality, we've been over-run in midfield & naive out wide, and an over-reliance on Pukki backfired when he 'injured his toe/burnt out/got found out.' Despite being bottom, I subscribe to the view that DF was doing a fairly decent job this season up until the lockdown, given the cards he was dealt. Hopefully he & the club have learnt some lessons from this ultimately painful experience at the top table. It's important to perform well in these last few games for squad & club morale. Webber has a big job on his hands this window, although it seems to be well in hand already (Sinani, McCallum, Sitti and perhaps the recent rumours)

A few positives to cling to:

- Krul has been consistent & reliable (virtually) all year. Perhaps the Fahrmann signing kept him on his toes. Hopefully he stays.

- The 'plan/project' to develop youth and polish gems to then sell for a profit looks to have been a success. Of course I hope we don't sell all of these, but who can argue that these players haven't increased their sell-on value: Krul, Pukki, Zimmermann, McLean, Byram and of course then there's Buendia, Godfrey, Cantwell, Aarons and Lewis. 

- There looks to be be more youth on the way over the next couple of years: Idah, Josh Martin, Jordan Thomas, Gilmour, Adshead, Fitzpatrick, Famewo, Archie Mair, Hondermarck, Bushiri...If even 3 or 4 of them step up, it will be deemed to be a success. Being in the division below might give a little bit of breathing space to give a few of these lads an opportunity. 

- Finances must surely be more secure at this stage to allow some wriggle room this window. Let's allow say 70m over the season on loans, transfers and wages and 30m losses incurred due to Covid-19. Would this amount alone be accounted for by simply being an EPL member? Fag-packet admittedly. If 60-70 million is raked in for the likes of Aarons, Buendia & Cantwell alone, perhaps 20-30m could be ring-fenced for some quality incomings in this window through the spine of the team.

 

There are ongoing injury concerns around Klose, Byram, Hanley, Drmic and perhaps even Vrancic & Zimm. Whoever leaves the squad will need replacing. Webber has shown here and at Huddersfield an ability to get promoted on a shoestring, but has yet to succeed in putting a squad together good enough to avoid relegation. Perhaps he's an "inbetweener" too? Another huge window coming up.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’d go with Hanley. A 100% fit Hanley is our best CB IMO. He’s the captain, a leader, experienced at PL level and a beast, which are all qualities that we’ve clearly lacked for large spells this season.

He is also our best defensive and offensive player at set-pieces, which again is something we’ve missed badly. I believe he’s the only player this season to score from one?

Plus the usual points made above about simply having another CB fit and the positive impact this could have made.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Clint said:

I’d go with Hanley. A 100% fit Hanley is our best CB IMO. He’s the captain, a leader, experienced at PL level and a beast, which are all qualities that we’ve clearly lacked for large spells this season.

He is also our best defensive and offensive player at set-pieces, which again is something we’ve missed badly. I believe he’s the only player this season to score from one?

Plus the usual points made above about simply having another CB fit and the positive impact this could have made.

 

A good argument and hard to disagree with, but who would have predicted this at the start of the season, and especially after the Liverpool game?
 

I think the acid test as to Hanley’s effectiveness is that Indy, his bete noire on here, was big enough to admit that Hanley was noticeably improving our defence. 😆

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Nuff Said said:

A good argument and hard to disagree with, but who would have predicted this at the start of the season, and especially after the Liverpool game?
 

I think the acid test as to Hanley’s effectiveness is that Indy, his bete noire on here, was big enough to admit that Hanley was noticeably improving our defence. 😆

Yeah he had a mare against Liverpool ,but fair play too him he turned it around and in my opinion are best cb partnership is Zimmer and Hanley ,with Benny at cdm.:-)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Canary dwarf said:

Yeah he had a mare against Liverpool ,but fair play too him he turned it around and in my opinion are best cb partnership is Zimmer and Hanley ,with Benny at cdm.:-)

LOL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We could have done with fit CB's but zonal defending has done as much to us as the injuries.  3 seasons under Farke the defending has been poor with zonal and is unlikely to change any time soon.  Bigger more physical defenders a la Zimm needed not little Jamal Lewis marking the huge CB's like Van **** and Dawson. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Clint said:

I’d go with Hanley. A 100% fit Hanley is our best CB IMO. He’s the captain, a leader, experienced at PL level and a beast, which are all qualities that we’ve clearly lacked for large spells this season.

He is also our best defensive and offensive player at set-pieces, which again is something we’ve missed badly. I believe he’s the only player this season to score from one?

Plus the usual points made above about simply having another CB fit and the positive impact this could have made.

 

Crumbs Clint - you haven't forgotten McLean's bullet header against Man City already have you?? 😉 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Pukki and the toe problem, stopped scoring and  lost his confidence. 

This one  😞

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Zimbo would be my first reaction, although I must say the comments on Hanley and the Pukki toe injury are very valid too...

Zimmermann is a giant in defense and a big unit , along with an inspiration for the team imo...

Yet, the injuries are only a relatively small part of the problem...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ROBFLECK said:

Zimbo would be my first reaction, although I must say the comments on Hanley and the Pukki toe injury are very valid too...

Zimmermann is a giant in defense and a big unit , along with an inspiration for the team imo...

Yet, the injuries are only a relatively small part of the problem...

Not sure I agree there Flecky; very significant for me. We'll never know of course, all ifs & buts, and we may well have stayed miraculously injury-free all year and still been relegated. I seem to remember DF experimenting with switching to wing-backs during games in pre-season. When was this option feasible over the season?

We seemed to have only two CBs available for virtually the whole season, sometimes less! There was no true partnership at CB for any period. Ben Godfrey did his best but faced a mammoth task with different partially fit partners, being regularly left exposed on both channels and after turnovers, his own injury issues, playing alongside midfielders and a generally poor shield in front of him. Byram was available for roughly half the season. Losing Onel removed his pace, directness & unpredictability from DF's options. Drmic's erratic fitness (and quite possibly ability!) never really pushed Pukki and Pukki himself never looked the same after his toe injury, if that was the reason for his dramatic loss of form. Vrancic also was unavailable for chunks of the season. Every team gets injuries, but the concentration in such a crucial position in a thin & inexperienced squad was very damaging. Admittedly, we didn't fare too badly injury-wise beyond the defenders. 

The frustrating part for me is that in lots of games we didn't look that far off it. It wouldn't have taken much to be 7 or 8 points better off, although every club could probably make that argument. Despite the poor recruitment last summer and in January, the CB injuries & trying to do it "on the cheap", there were quite a few games where just a little bit more experience in defence, a bit more quality in deep midfield, a bit more ruthlessness & physicality at set-pieces and a bit less naivety out wide would have turned losses by one goal into a result. We knowingly went with a young & inexperienced squad and sadly 20th place is probably a fair reflection. Our results against teams in the bottom 8 have been atrocious. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...