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king canary

A squad in flux?

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There are quite a few threads on who will stay/go, clear outs etc, I thought it might be useful to try grouping the players to get an idea of just how much change we might see over the summer.

Group 1- would love to keep, might not have a choice.

Aarons

Lewis

Cantwell

Godfrey

Buendia

Group 2- core Championship contributors

Zimmerman

Krul

Byram

Hanley

Rupp

Hernandez

McLean

Tettey

Pukki

Idah

Group 3- time for a fresh start?

Klose

Vrancic

Stiepermann

Trybull

Drmic

Group 4- goners

Duda

Heise

Raggett

Leitner

Thompson

Morris

Group 5- new signings/youth

McCallum

Sitti

Martin

Sinani

Famewo

Thomas

Mair

 

I've grouped these based on how I think Farke views them, rather than me (I'd swap Vrancic and McLean for instance). 

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I agree with most of this with the exception of a couple in group 3 and one in group 4. I still think Vrantic and Steipermann in the championship can offer quite a lot subject to them still wanting to be up for a championship battle, Vrantic set piece work in particular would be missed especially if we lose Buendia. I am not sure Raggett has been given a chance here,  he is a big powerful lad and may surprise a few if given a chance, or at least one of the back up CBs I agree with all the comments on the rest

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I think Krul will be off too personally. Revitalised his career with us somewhat and some lower mid table prem teams will have a sniff round him.

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Agree with most of those, although Stiepi and Vrancic should be kept on, they were key to our success last season.

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Good list. 

I'd keep Stiepermann and Vrancic personally, but that's only because I really enjoyed watching them last season.

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I would love to see us show some ambition and do all we can to keep the ones we want until January at least. At that point, if we’re going nowhere, it’s only fair to let them go. 
I’ve no idea how the shortened transfer window and pre-season is going to work. Perhaps this will help us keep the squad together, albeit maybe only temporarily.

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It highlights how large our current squad is, and how we'd need to move many players on if we want a rebuild.

Webber had spoken before about only wanting 16-18 experienced professionals in a Championship squad, otherwise players regularly weren't even on the bench and that there was no space for youth to come through. Hard to say if that was coloured by the previous budgetary constraints though.

Trybull, Leitner, McLean, Klose and Drmic out for me. Which is harsh on some players that have been decent for us (except Drmic) but ultimately can't take us any further.

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3 minutes ago, Clint said:

I would love to see us show some ambition and do all we can to keep the ones we want until January at least. At that point, if we’re going nowhere, it’s only fair to let them go. 
I’ve no idea how the shortened transfer window and pre-season is going to work. Perhaps this will help us keep the squad together, albeit maybe only temporarily.

We did that under Neil and under Worthington and it didn't really work out. 

My hope is that if we sell 2 or 3 of them it means we can say to the rest that they have to stay.

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Agree with that list. Also need to overlay the homegrown rule especially thinking about who we might lose in group 1.

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Posted (edited)

I would definitely be sticking Vrancic in group 2 and swapping for either/both of McLean and Rupp, however I suspect out of the 3 it is more likely that Mario leaves which is a shame as I thought last night he showed what we had been missing in central midfield, epitomised by McLean coming on and within minutes gifting Watford a goal.

Edited by Michael Wynless Jones

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I agree with much of the OP's list. Who know's what Df and SW are thinking - it'll be an interesting summer!

In regards to players like Stiepermann and Vrancic, I am happy for them to be in the squad - they seem like good personalities and they can do a job in the Championship - but I expect certain positions to be upgraded. CB, CM and AM have been our weaknesses this year and I hope that those areas would be addressed so that we can hit the ground running, if we were promoted to the PL again.

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2 hours ago, Michael Wynless Jones said:

I would definitely be sticking Vrancic in group 2 and swapping for either/both of McLean and Rupp, however I suspect out of the 3 it is more likely that Mario leaves which is a shame as I thought last night he showed what we had been missing in central midfield, epitomised by McLean coming on and within minutes gifting Watford a goal.

I think Rupp was bought with half an eye on the Championship to be honest so I'd be shocked if he isn't seen as a core part of the squad next season.

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I'd be surprised to keep any of G1. I also think we will lose one or two surprises from G2 (lots of noise with Kenny to Rangers, and I have a theory about Pukki).

Losing the young guns will force our hand in the domestic market due to home grown restrictions- so I think we will do our best to keep hold of Krul.

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12 minutes ago, king canary said:

I think Rupp was bought with half an eye on the Championship to be honest so I'd be shocked if he isn't seen as a core part of the squad next season.

Yeah, you're right about that, personally I don't think he's even that good, but would love to be proven wrong, but I do feel he's rocked up to the wrong East Anglian club in January, as he's about their level, imo.  My post was an, if it was up to me, type post not what I think will happen, for example not a chance McLean doesn't play every game next season. (injury aside)

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8 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

I'd be surprised to keep any of G1. I also think we will lose one or two surprises from G2 (lots of noise with Kenny to Rangers, and I have a theory about Pukki).

Losing the young guns will force our hand in the domestic market due to home grown restrictions- so I think we will do our best to keep hold of Krul.

What is the theory? I'm intrigued...

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Just now, king canary said:

What is the theory? I'm intrigued...

I have it on reasonable ITK that there were 4 players unhappy in Jan because of moves not granted, don't have any names though.

I think the late Man United interest in Pukki was real and, as the last chance he will get to play for a club anywhere near that level (+ wouldn't have affected his Finland ambitions) he wanted to go and we said no.

I don't think he wants to be here and won't feel he owes us another year in the Championship. Hence why Drmic has been 'rigorously' road-tested during project restart.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

I have it on reasonable ITK that there were 4 players unhappy in Jan because of moves not granted, don't have any names though.

I think the late Man United interest in Pukki was real and, as the last chance he will get to play for a club anywhere near that level (+ wouldn't have affected his Finland ambitions) he wanted to go and we said no.

I don't think he wants to be here and won't feel he owes us another year in the Championship. Hence why Drmic has been 'rigorously' road-tested during project restart.

Interesting and I guess would add up- the question with Pukki will likely be does anyone actually want to buy him in the summer? No goals from open play this year I believe, 30 years old and likely to carry a decent price tag still. Depends on if he really forces something.

Edited by king canary

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, hogesar said:

Good list. 

I'd keep Stiepermann and Vrancic personally, but that's only because I really enjoyed watching them last season.

I'd actually agree with Hogesar here, despite me never really rating Stiepermann.

I think we clearly need a bit of a rebuild but that you can change too much at once. I'd keep Stiepermann in the squad, and Vrancic if he is up for staying. But... I expect Vrancic wants out. 

I don't think there is a realistic chance of us being able to shift Klose so I think we hope he can have a good pre-season and offer the squad something for one more season. We've written Tettey off before so wouldn't surprise me if Klose could squeeze out a half useful season in the league below.

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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Just now, TeemuVanBasten said:

I'd actually agree with Hogesar here, despite me never really rating Stiepermann.

I think we clearly need a bit of a rebuild but that you can change too much at once. I'd keep Stiepermann in the squad, and Vrancic if he is up for staying.

I don't think there is a realistic chance of us being able to shift Klose so I think we hope he can have a good pre-season and offer the squad something for one more season, especially if we do lose Godfrey as its one less player we need to recruit. Midfield needs the bulk of the money.

Go home, you're drunk 😉

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7 hours ago, Mason 47 said:

I don't think he wants to be here and won't feel he owes us another year in the Championship. Hence why Drmic has been 'rigorously' road-tested during project restart.

The thought did cross my mind that Drmic is getting the minutes because we're planning for a life post-Pukki. 

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Nicely done King, must admit to being excited by the young players we have signed and those we’re inked with.

Just need to off load the players who aren’t required anymore and those who want a move and bring on the new season.

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11 hours ago, Yorkshire Canary said:

I agree with most of this with the exception of a couple in group 3 and one in group 4. I still think Vrantic and Steipermann in the championship can offer quite a lot subject to them still wanting to be up for a championship battle, Vrantic set piece work in particular would be missed especially if we lose Buendia. I am not sure Raggett has been given a chance here,  he is a big powerful lad and may surprise a few if given a chance, or at least one of the back up CBs I agree with all the comments on the rest

Mate, Sean Raggett has seriously struggled to win over Portsmouth fans this season, he's nowhere near good enough to justify being given a chance here unless we plan on rapidly declining. 

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12 hours ago, king canary said:

Group 3- time for a fresh start?

Klose

Vrancic

Stiepermann

Trybull

Drmic

Would keep all of Group 3 if possible, except Drmic who has the fans against him as well as trying to find some form. His only answer is to stick it out and start banging in goals, or try somewhere else.

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3 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Would keep all of Group 3 if possible, except Drmic who has the fans against him as well as trying to find some form. His only answer is to stick it out and start banging in goals, or try somewhere else.

Would also keep most of that group other than Drmic. Trybull I don’t think brings too much to the table, but assuming Leitner goes, we’re left with Tettey, Sitti, Vrancic and McLean. I think we’d need five and Trybull is decent at championship level. If Sitti isn’t good enough then Trybull has to stay imo. If, however, Sitti looks decent and we bring one more in as an upgrade, then I wouldn’t be too upset if Trybull makes way as I’m not sure he brings much more to the table than any of the other options.

That said, I actually think we might be more likely to end up with Trybull staying and Vrancic leaving.

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Good list KC. As others have said, i don’t think we can (or will) ship out too many and have a complete overhaul.

If we keep all of your group 2, manage to keep hold of two or more of group 1, keep most of group three, plus the youngsters in group 5, that’s pretty solid. Two or three decent signings in and I think we’d be pretty strong in the championship.

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The issue with keeping too many older players is that they’ve proved not good enough for top flight, we cannot afford to spend millions should we get up again, so the new youngsters bought in must be given as much game time as possible to develop their career. Of course they have to prove their worthy of the first team, but we do need a fresh start in lots of areas, central midfield is definitely key to build on.

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8 hours ago, Mason 47 said:

I'd be surprised to keep any of G1. I also think we will lose one or two surprises from G2 (lots of noise with Kenny to Rangers, and I have a theory about Pukki).

Losing the young guns will force our hand in the domestic market due to home grown restrictions- so I think we will do our best to keep hold of Krul.

Ok what's your theory about pukki

 

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13 hours ago, king canary said:

We did that under Neil and under Worthington and it didn't really work out. 

My hope is that if we sell 2 or 3 of them it means we can say to the rest that they have to stay.

Agree. 

We can't be too stale and need some "fresh blood." Better to lose those that don't want to stay (so long as we get a decent price). It's a massive psychological challenge to be back where you started and I'm sure that not all players are up to it - but have no idea which ones are and which are not - I don't believe a great deal about body language "perceptions."

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