The ‘Project’..?!?

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

14 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

I wasted my twenties by accidentally having kids early. They're far more damaging than the odd spliff.

Tou should love your kids, not smoke them. 👍😇😃

Edited July 6, 2020 by wcorkcanary

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

3 minutes ago, Bill said:

if only I could speak with such clarity 😊

You do struggle sometimes. Even you can see that....oh hang on a minute.  Forgot that you were the only person who never gets anything wrong. 

Edited July 6, 2020 by wcorkcanary

[yellow_belly 226]

Anyhoo... I am concluding  that nobody that likes the plan can explain the plan. Which actually says a lot about the plan! 😆 

Therefore it seems that a good football plan must include long term, self sufficient and highlight that yo-yo ing is a good thing. Thus buying time and minimizing hostile noise. Thanks all.

Edited July 6, 2020 by yellow_belly

[Hardhouse44 261]

The "Project" is bojjock$ its all smoke and mirrors. It doesn't exist. Its an excuse not to even have to attempt to relinquish control of the club to an interested parties and is bought in to by idiots who are just as happy to hero worship a manager who has dished up our worst ever top fight season.

 

[yellow_belly 226]

👍

[TIL 1010 4,717]

7 minutes ago, Bill said:

if only I could speak with such clarity 😊

I went back and edited my post which was missing just the one letter on a word and i find it a tad rich with this latest mumbo jumbo you are rattling on about .

Edited July 6, 2020 by TIL 1010

[Bill 1,788]

2 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

You do struggle sometimes. Even you can see that....oh hang on a minute.  Forgot that you were the only person who never gets anything wrong. 

oh dear what a shame - it was funnier before you had to edit it

still there's always this mumbo jumbo you posted earlier

"Ray The Barsteward? Roger The Bulldozer? Wtf are you on about.

Yours ,mrne account Corko."

5pm and work is finished - easy peasy day

so ta ra, and don't do too much of track and trace my old crank

 

[nutty nigel 7,506]

8 minutes ago, yellow_belly said:

Anyhoo... I am concluding  that nobody that likes the plan can explain the plan. Which actually says a lot about the plan! 😆 

Therefore it seems that a good football plan must include long term, self sufficient and highlight that yo-yo ing is a good thing. Thus buying time and minimizing hostile noise. Thanks all.

Analyse "the projects" of all the other teams and you will find some are more successful and many more are less successful. Your conclusion is as flawed like your one eyed question. 

Edited July 6, 2020 by nutty nigel

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

1 minute ago, Bill said:

oh dear what a shame - it was funnier before you had to edit it

still there's always this mumbo jumbo you posted earlier

"Ray The Barsteward? Roger The Bulldozer? Wtf are you on about.

Yours ,mrne account Corko."

5pm and work is finished - easy peasy day

so ta ra, and don't do too much of track and trace my old crank

 

Another selfie Bilious? Just because you wrongly accused  me , you now think I'm someone else? Are the accusations  true then?

[TIL 1010 4,717]

My God you really need to seek professional help City1st as your posts on this thread have been nothing short of absolutely tragic.

[Midlands Yellow 3,920]

Seconds out, round 10.

[Herman 9,698]

21 minutes ago, Hardhouse44 said:

The "Project" is bojjock$ its all smoke and mirrors. It doesn't exist. Its an excuse not to even have to attempt to relinquish control of the club to an interested parties and is bought in to by idiots who are just as happy to hero worship a manager who has dished up our worst ever top fight season.

 

[hogesar 9,611]

8 minutes ago, Herman said:

At least the kid is defiantly standing on his own two feet, refusing to budge. The one's on here who use 'the cook' and other ridiculous phraseology in relation to our owners would throw everything out the pram then go hide under the pillow, hoping someone else comes and sorts it all out for them.

[lake district canary 4,531]

2 hours ago, Bill said:

Stay calm folks

It's only Morty

If Yellow Belly is Morty, then I'm lake district canary.......

..............no hang on, that's not right........

............if Yellow Belly is Morty, then I'm not lake district canary......

.................no, that's not right either........

....................help!!!!!!!!!!

[Harry53 207]

2 hours ago, yellow_belly said:

Bill... why are you rude. The question was raised elsewhere and I gave my opinion and asked for clarity. I said that I might be wrong.

I don’t get the childish name calling when you don’t like something. 

One could call you a boring idiot, with nothing of any interest to say. Others call you a tw&t but I just ignore you. 
 

I am generally interested to find out what the plan is other than a vague statement.

I am relatively new to Norwich and this club and always enjoy good banter and gaining opinions and good information. 

I find this stupid playground bickering so boring and those that keep this up are just embarrassing. I have no idea how old you guys are that continue to trade blows but i sure wish you would grow up.  (And I am not referring to Yellow belly)

[sonyc 5,482]

3 minutes ago, Harry53 said:

I am relatively new to Norwich and this club and always enjoy good banter and gaining opinions and good information. 

I find this stupid playground bickering so boring and those that keep this up are just embarrassing. I have no idea how old you guys are that continue to trade blows but i sure wish you would grow up.  (And I am not referring to Yellow belly)

Just remember this picture Harry and it helps understanding!😉

 

[Hardhouse44 261]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

Sanctimonious, nothing in you life 30k posts? Why? Pr I ck!. you think you have the right to judge everyone’s opinion you idiot. I’m convinced you never attend let along buy a season ticket for 35+ years. 
I can’t be bothered to post it again so read again for the co ck below hogbojjock or whoever he is. You are the parasites on this forum judging everyone who disagrees with you and hiding behind the fact that you post more times that most men fart a day. Pathetic.

[Herman 9,698]

[nutty nigel 7,506]

24 minutes ago, Harry53 said:

I am relatively new to Norwich and this club and always enjoy good banter and gaining opinions and good information. 

I find this stupid playground bickering so boring and those that keep this up are just embarrassing. I have no idea how old you guys are that continue to trade blows but i sure wish you would grow up.  (And I am not referring to Yellow belly)

Would probably help to say who you are referring to rather than who you're not.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

17 hours ago, lake district canary said:

If Yellow Belly is Morty, then I'm lake district canary.......

South Sider is Morty.

[lake district canary 4,531]

16 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

18 hours ago, lake district canary said:

If Yellow Belly is Morty, then I'm lake district canary.......

South Sider is Morty.

 Yes, I know, I was being fecetious.

[Bill 1,788]

13 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

 Yes, I know, I was being fecetious.

Posting as some Roman Emperor now, I see

Edited July 7, 2020 by Bill

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

21 hours ago, yellow_belly said:

Ok, I know that this is being briefly discussed on another post but...

Being ‘simple’, what is the actual project?

I believe FeedTheWolf summed up the plan on another thread, but it would be great to fully understand it.

1. As far I can see the ‘Project’ is just a mission statement eg. “Ideally we'd be top 20 but how we see it is to aim to be a top 26 club.” (Zoe Ward) The PL has 20 teams. Obviously 18,19, 20 get relegated. So we would love to be a yo-yo team, at best?!?

(Zoe Ward manages Norwich City Football Club’s Football Administration function which includes Club Secretarial, Player Liaison, First Team and Academy Operations... and is married to Stuart Webber)

2. Stuart Webber (The Director of Football & husband of Zoe Ward). Will leave in 2022. One would assume that ZW would leave at this point as well. SW will help find his successor. Would Ben Kensell also leave at this point? The three ‘manage‘ the Club on a day to day basis. Thus this would leave a big hole in the daily running of the club.

3. Delia (Aged 79) and MWJ (nearly Aged 79) plan to “hand the reigns” to their nephew, Tom Smith. TS a was a civil servant for a decade and  then “set up” a photography business. Not much is know how well this business traded for the couple of years. One may assume that he is not a man of means, or success; but again I may be proved wrong.

4. DF (our head coach) has been rewarded a couple of years extension on promotion (rightly). He was a ‘Cheap punt’ given his experience and did wonderfully last year. This successful year is sandwiched between two disappointing years. He has never been given / trusted with transfer funds. He has been found wanting this year and is on course for a record low points tally in this league.

5. To be self sufficient. Buy / play young players, and 🤞sell them on for a profit. Repeat.

So what is the plan / strategy? Is it to be debt free to allow Tim Smith an attractive club to sell? To Yo-yo (yay/boo/yay repeat - never dull). However, it would take a lot to be a dull position (mid table in the championship) or relegated as we were a few years ago with ‘Rodant’/ Gunn..?

Happy to be educated...

Hi @yellow_belly. I posted this on the other thread in response to @TeemuVanBasten, who kept saying how he didn't believe there was a plan. I took a long time thinking this over and posting this long and detailed response - if you're prepared to read the whole thing (if you haven't already), I think this will go some way towards answering questions about the club's long-term strategy.

I'm more than happy to discuss it, but I think it'd be good if we all try to be open-minded about other people's opinions and keep it civil. There's far too much bickering going on at the moment, and I'm sure we can discuss it reasonably. We're all NCFC fans, after all.

 

 

Although naturally your taken on this situation is more negative than mine, in essence most of what you say is true; it's just framed with despondency rather than optimism. I know it's the hope that kills you, and all that, but I think the point I'm trying to make is that I believe we're doing a great job considering our means.

Take a quick look at this article from October 2017: https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/listed-owners-every-championship-club-13778193. There is not a single owner of a Championship club with a lower listed net worth than NCFC. Of the few without a listed net worth, only Burton Albion and Bolton might possibly have less wealthy owners than ours. Even Barnsley were taken over by a huge consortium shortly after this was published.

So, we've established that we're cash poor. However, even with a wealthier owner to underwrite those difficult periods, how much financial clout would that realistically give us? There are probably only about 15 or 20 clubs in the world that have the sheer size and money to insulate themselves against having to cash in on their best assets. Of course there's a food chain, and they can prey on clubs further down that chain, but almost all clubs are selling clubs.

Even clubs with billionaire owners - such as QPR, West Brom, Fulham and Stoke - have to mitigate against FFP, and ensure they don't overcommit in an effort to reach the big time. We've been over the permutations of new investment over and over again, and that's not what I wish to discuss here. What I want to discuss is how we're doing based on what we actually have, rather than what we feel we should or could have.

I am often perceived as some sort of 'happy clapper' on here, but the reality is that I have been very critical of Delia and Michael in the past (2006 to 2009 being particularly awful), and I have reservations about the long-term prosperity of the club under Tom Smith. What Tom does not - and will not - have is the huge amount of goodwill afforded to Delia and Michael for what they've done for our club over almost a quarter of a century. I know there are some people who don't rate them, and even some who actively dislike them; but, ultimately, the majority of our fans are at least appreciative of their long service.

Bringing in the club's first ever foreign manager and first ever two-tier management structure was a bold move on their part. Considering our position in the financial food chain, do you not think that we've overperformed against our means over the last three years? For the entirety of that first season under Farke, there was an awful lot of negativity (some of which was justified) about the style of football, and the overall direction of the club under owners with such limited finances.

Relegation sucks. Relegation by finishing bottom by a mile with what appears to be a limp surrender sucks even harder. Nobody likes it, and I don't think even the most partisan advocates of the Webber/Farke axis could tell us that they believed we did the best we could in terms of both recruitment and performance this season.

But what do we do? There's no investment incoming, other than the parachute payments and player sales. Is there really a better option than allowing our management duo to continue with what they've started and unearthing more good Championship players? The plan was always to try to establish ourselves as a Premier League club without overstretching ourselves financially; that doesn't happen overnight even with a ton of money (unless you're Wolves).

Well done if you're still reading, Teemu; this is where I start to weave everything back into your previous post. You said that with this plan we "essentially accept our existing average level". I would argue that given our financial position, our average level of being a yo-yo club (average league position 20.8 over the last ten seasons) is pretty good. I can't think of any other clubs with similarly limited means who are anywhere near that level.

So, what I'm saying is that of course there's a plan. There are many aspects of this plan that we've not discussed here, but it exists, and I believe it's going relatively well considering our means. Therefore, I think your main issue is not with the plan, or even with Webber and Farke (despite their shortcomings), but with the ownership of the club.

I'm not going to start backing Delia and Michael to the hilt and accuse you of being an apostate; I share your concerns. In particular, I have grave concerns of what could happen in two or three years if all of these variables come to pass:

1) Delia and Michael pass on their majority shareholding to Tom;
2) There is no further external investment;
3) Webber and Farke both leave;
4) We fail to return to the Premier League;
5) The Academy does not continue to produce saleable assets of the same quality/at the same rate.

If, in three years' time, all of those five variables are true, the club could be in a genuinely parlous state (and that's before we even consider the general state of football post-coronavirus).

The main point that I wish to make is that I believe the 'project' - if you are prepared to acknowledge its existence - is designed to adequately insulate the club as far as possible against the worst consequences of the variables presented above. The dangers of overstretching the finances are even starker when you consider the current global situation. You could say that this is the reason we need new investment, but when we consider potential investors in the current climate, whose stock is genuinely rising, and who is on the brink of collapse?

It's a vital crossroads in the future of our club, and to be genuinely financially sustainable is more valuable to us now than it's ever been. That's why I believe in this project, and why I think fans in general should try to get behind it. That doesn't mean it should be followed blithely like some kind of personality cult. It doesn't mean that those at the helm shouldn't be questioned. But it does mean that, as fans, we should appreciate more than ever that we still have a club to support and it doesn't have a long list of debtors waiting at the door.

OTBC.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 minute ago, Feedthewolf said:

Hi @yellow_belly. I posted this on the other thread in response to @TeemuVanBasten, who kept saying how he didn't believe there was a plan.

I mean, I didn't really say that did I? 

 

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

6 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I mean, I didn't really say that did I? 

You said: "Instead we have to buy into an imaginary project and compare ourselves to Barcelona."

You also said: "What project?"

You seemed pretty insistent that you didn't believe there was a project, which was what led to me spending an hour or more crafting the response you see above.

I'm not interested in getting bogged down in semantics, anyway. We had a good discussion on the subject despite having largely contrary viewpoints. I don't see any reason why we can't continue that conversation here.

If you are happy to acknowledge that there is a project, let's discuss its relative strengths and weaknesses. All I ever objected to was people (and not just you!) saying that there was no plan or project.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

2 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

You said: "Instead we have to buy into an imaginary project and compare ourselves to Barcelona."

You also said: "What project?"

You seemed pretty insistent that you didn't believe there was a project, which was what led to me spending an hour or more crafting the response you see above.

I'm not interested in getting bogged down in semantics, anyway. We had a good discussion on the subject despite having largely contrary viewpoints. I don't see any reason why we can't continue that conversation here.

If you are happy to acknowledge that there is a project, let's discuss its relative strengths and weaknesses. All I ever objected to was people (and not just you!) saying that there was no plan or project.

You've changed the word 'plan' to 'project' now.

Can't be bothered to respond now as you are being so disingenuous. Did you not subsequently affirm that my perception of the plan is somewhat similar to yours but just a bit more negative? I think you did. 

But for the benefit of the OP and his question, here is my perception of the project, the one you claim I don't think exists:

23 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

The only project as I understand it is to achieve self-sufficiency in order to enable Tom Smith, man of little means, to own the club.

This will have to be achieved by achieving a steady stream of academy products to sell. 

Only, I can't get excited by that as the fans have bailed out the club 4 times under Delia and it would only take a baron spell / a year with no Lewis/Cantwell breakthrough to cause a cash crisis and require a bail out again. 

In terms of progress on the pitch, they were pretty much happy with where we were at... 28th we were. Top 26 the target. We essentially accept our existing average level. 

If that's the project then it doesn't excite me, and other than refunding an academy that Delia defunded.... I don't see what's special or unusual about it. I note that it isn't particular ambitious. 

I mean, it's good that our academy will be more productive. Would prefer a wealthier owner being able to underwrite difficult periods to ensure we don't have to constantly tear sides apart and never progress on the footballing side rather than have to cash in on those assets or pass the begging bowl whenever we have a cashflow crisis. 

The project feels very much just feels like leaving Tom Smith with a decent footballing structure to give him a fighting chance after the handover. 

[hogesar 9,611]

18 hours ago, Hardhouse44 said:

Sanctimonious, nothing in you life 30k posts? Why? Pr I ck!. you think you have the right to judge everyone’s opinion you idiot. I’m convinced you never attend let along buy a season ticket for 35+ years. 
I can’t be bothered to post it again so read again for the co ck below hogbojjock or whoever he is. You are the parasites on this forum judging everyone who disagrees with you and hiding behind the fact that you post more times that most men fart a day. Pathetic.

I like you. Sassy.

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

I'm not being disingenuous at all. I was just saying that I wrote the long post above in response to your previous statements about there not being a plan/project/whatever.

I then said that we'd had a fair exchange of views on the subject, which is clear for everyone to see on the other thread. Since that exchange, you softened your view and discussed the relative merits of the project, which is what I was trying to get you to do in the first place.

I really don't see there's any misinformation here?

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

21 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

You said: "Instead we have to buy into an imaginary project and compare ourselves to Barcelona."

You also said: "What project?"

You seemed pretty insistent that you didn't believe there was a project,

No, I said the onus is on those who believe in and support the "project" to explain it those who are struggling to ascertain precisely what it is, including me.

I then put forward my perception of what the plan/project is and stated that if I was correct then it isn't anything special or doesn't excite me.

The OP is also questioning exactly what the project is. So many express support for "the project" but when asked to explain it... don't really seem to know what it is. Or, to detract from the fact that they are blindly supporting something they don't understand... they do exactly what you have done by taking a pop at people who dare to question it.

Edited July 7, 2020 by TeemuVanBasten

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

22 hours ago, yellow_belly said:

Most people, not just on football, take calculated ‘risks’.

Buying a house with a mortgage (debt) is speculating that you can be employed to repay it, that you like the house, that it will go up in value when you want to sell etc 

All successful businesses have a working capital and borrow to expand. We are hamstrung, in my opinion, from expanding and reaching our true potential due to a sensible amount of working capital. I think the owners have established a sound base and stood up when the club needed help and they should rightly be applauded for their hard work and commitment.

That was slightly undone by the appalling Times interview and the message it sent to potential good new investors. I hope they reconsider their stated aim of handing the club over to a nephew and do everything to attract the right sort of owner.