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Grant Hanley's Pace

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I've just watched Max Aarons discussing FIFA stats on Youtube and the discussion came up about the quickest players at the club. He listed Hernandez, himself, Godfrey and Grant Hanley as being the quickest!

A bit of a surprise there - I've often thought that people have been overly critical of him in the past - especially forgetting that he was runner up for POTS in uis first season - but I certainly wouldn't have put him down as one of the quickest in the team.

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I think it depends what you mean by pace. It's not  unusual that central defenders over 100m are so are some of the quicker guys. The problem is, the 'race' on a pitch is often much shorter than this and also require agility. The ability to both turn and accelerate are more important than top speed / 100m times and I think that may be where Hanley isn't as good. On the training pitch when they are running straight lines over a certain distance, I'm sure Hanley is one of the fastest, but that doesn't automatically translate to a game situation. 

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If that’s true then it’s little wonder we lose the runners and very concerning that Hanley the tank is faster than most of our squad! 

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6 minutes ago, Indy said:

If that’s true then it’s little wonder we lose the runners and very concerning that Hanley the tank is faster than most of our squad! 

To be fair I would gladly argue that Hernandez is the only player on our team with any speed or pace

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When Hanley first came he was worshipped and considered really quick, people even sang ‘ you’ll never beat Grant Hanley ‘. Then along came Godfrey as Hanley was injured. Hanley overnight became one of our Whipping boys. Things then changed with people on here as a for instance saying he was slow. Strangely enough our resurgence before lock down coincided with his return, our demise also coincides with him being out. 
Yet another instance of a good player being subjected to nonsense by our fans.

Because of comments being made about the manager, Webber and a number of the players I personally am now of the belief that this squad will split. I said last year we should enjoy this year whatever the outcome. I also predicted the one thing that would change everything would be our fans. That unfortunately seems to have happened. Cast your minds back to the beginning of the season. The Football we were playing was amazing. With that style and confidence we would have walked the championship. Unfortunately the EPL is unforgiving and confidence was lost. 
I now believe unfortunately we are back to square one and next season a new project will need to begin. 
Many will now say I am the new LDC or I am a happy clapper, but this I do not believe to be the case. The vast majority last year said whatever will be, a lot of those same fans have turned expecting basically a group of kids to all advance to the next level in a couple of months.

I would at this stage have said be careful what you wish for, but I think the die has been cast already. The thing that made this project the togetherness has gone. 

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I like Hanley and Zimbo as centre backs.  Ben, Max and Jamal are great with the ball, but very average without it.  I think next season I would be happy with the 2 Sams at LB and RB to make us more solid.

In my view if Ben, Max and Jamal all left it wouldn’t be a disaster.  They are making the same defensive mistakes they were making at the start of the season.  No sign of continuing to develop as they did through last season.  I don’t think they will have that many suitors so sadly won’t bring in mega money.

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McCallum, Hanley, Zimbo and Byram would be a decent Championship defence in my eyes. Think Hanley could be a massive player for us next season. 

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14 minutes ago, FCC said:

I like Hanley and Zimbo as centre backs.  Ben, Max and Jamal are great with the ball, but very average without it.  I think next season I would be happy with the 2 Sams at LB and RB to make us more solid.

In my view if Ben, Max and Jamal all left it wouldn’t be a disaster.  They are making the same defensive mistakes they were making at the start of the season.  No sign of continuing to develop as they did through last season.  I don’t think they will have that many suitors so sadly won’t bring in mega money.

Clearly on Godfrey and Aaron’s ( and Cantwell if he is part of your list as well ) the top 6 clubs in the country have a different view to how good they will be and how much they are worth. How opinions change in just 5 games designed to ensure Liverpool were crowned as champions.

Lock down for our club unfortunately has resulted in us going back to square one.

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20 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

McCallum, Hanley, Zimbo and Byram would be a decent Championship defence in my eyes. Think Hanley could be a massive player for us next season. 

I just pray we don’t have to totally rebuild, from the manager downwards, but I am beginning to fear the worse. 

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2 hours ago, All the Germans said:

I think it depends what you mean by pace. It's not  unusual that central defenders over 100m are so are some of the quicker guys. The problem is, the 'race' on a pitch is often much shorter than this and also require agility. The ability to both turn and accelerate are more important than top speed / 100m times and I think that may be where Hanley isn't as good. On the training pitch when they are running straight lines over a certain distance, I'm sure Hanley is one of the fastest, but that doesn't automatically translate to a game situation. 

This.

Its why a striker like Harry Kane, who isn't that fast, is so effective- he's got a quick burst over those first few yards which gives him all the space he needs.

Zimmerman is an example too- probably not slow in a straight foot race but his ability to change direction at speed is non existent. 

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When I saw Hanley play at Sheffield Utd just before lockdown he was immense and showed a really good turn of pace over 20 yards to make recovery tackles on several occasions plus physically he was able to stand up to the physical side of their game and dish it back to them in equal measure.  The home fans didn’t like it and had a go at him which I found amusing- they obviously felt their team should have a monopoly on that sort of thing.

 

Id be fine next season with Hanley and Zimbo plus Klose and Godfrey- If we sell Godfrey definitely scope to bring in a young & hungry replacement or two and spend the money in other positions.

Edited by It's Character Forming
Auto correct had changed play to okay.

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1 hour ago, It's Character Forming said:

When I saw Hanley play at Sheffield Utd just before lockdown he was immense and showed a really good turn of pace over 20 yards to make recovery tackles on several occasions plus physically he was able to stand up to the physical side of their game and dish it back to them in equal measure.  The home fans didn’t like it and had a go at him which I found amusing- they obviously felt their team should have a monopoly on that sort of thing.

 

Id be fine next season with Hanley and Zimbo plus Klose and Godfrey- If we sell Godfrey definitely scope to bring in a young & hungry replacement or two and spend the money in other positions.

It says a lot that we could sell Aarons, Lewis, Buendia, Godfrey and Cantwell but still have a reasonably competitive Championship eleven next season. 

The only players I'd be really worried about going are Pukki and Krul.

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2 hours ago, Well b back said:

The thing that made this project the togetherness has gone. 

No it hasn't, it has just been put on hold while we all deal with the fact we are 99.99% certain of being relegated. It's a kind of grieving for what might have been, but the fans will bounce back with enthusiasm, the players will deal with it in their own way and the new season will start with new hope.  Togetherness will reappear, it has just taken a vacation. 

 

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18 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

The only players I'd be really worried about going are Pukki and Krul.

The longer this season goes on, the less I'm worrying about losing Pukki. I know he's low on confidence right now in a team that's not giving him any service, but if someone offers us £10-15m for him, considering that he's the wrong side of 30 now, I'd be tempted to take it.

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12 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

The longer this season goes on, the less I'm worrying about losing Pukki. I know he's low on confidence right now in a team that's not giving him any service, but if someone offers us £10-15m for him, considering that he's the wrong side of 30 now, I'd be tempted to take it.

15m and I think we would have to consider. But not sure I can see anyone offering that.

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7 minutes ago, hogesar said:

15m and I think we would have to consider. But not sure I can see anyone offering that.

No, me neither. His stock was very high earlier this season after his early performances, combined with those for Finland, meant that someone would have paid good money for him.

But at 30, he isn't a long term solution and we could reinvest a £10-15m sum in a couple of decent younger players to rebuild.

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4 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

No, me neither. His stock was very high earlier this season after his early performances, combined with those for Finland, meant that someone would have paid good money for him.

But at 30, he isn't a long term solution and we could reinvest a £10-15m sum in a couple of decent younger players to rebuild.

But then who gets us goals in the Championship? I'm reasonably confident that with greater service, worse defenders and the confidence of last time he was in the Championship he'll start scoring regularly again next season. 15 million these days does not get you a guaranteed Championship goalscorer and leading with Idah, a bought in promising youngster or a cheap German would be a massive gamble. 

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6 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

But then who gets us goals in the Championship? I'm reasonably confident that with greater service, worse defenders and the confidence of last time he was in the Championship he'll start scoring regularly again next season. 15 million these days does not get you a guaranteed Championship goalscorer and leading with Idah, a bought in promising youngster or a cheap German would be a massive gamble. 

There's no guarantee Pukki would get us goals in the Championship next season. Sure, he had a great season last year and a very good start to this season, but his confidence was sky high during that period, and he clearly had the motivation and hunger to experience Premier League football.

Fast forward a year or so, and his confidence is rock bottom and he doesn't have much left to prove on the domestic stage- he'll never play for a genuine 'big club' as he hasn't got that many years left in him now. His priority next season will probably be making sure that he stays injury-free ahead of Finland's first ever Euros, where he'll be the star player.

Like I said, a £10-15m fee for a 30-year-old at Championship level isn't a bad deal if we can find the right player to replace him.

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3 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

There's no guarantee Pukki would get us goals in the Championship next season. Sure, he had a great season last year and a very good start to this season, but his confidence was sky high during that period, and he clearly had the motivation and hunger to experience Premier League football.

Fast forward a year or so, and his confidence is rock bottom and he doesn't have much left to prove on the domestic stage- he'll never play for a genuine 'big club' as he hasn't got that many years left in him now. His priority next season will probably be making sure that he stays injury-free ahead of Finland's first ever Euros, where he'll be the star player.

Like I said, a £10-15m fee for a 30-year-old at Championship level isn't a bad deal if we can find the right player to replace him.

Nothing is guaranteed in a head to head Pukki or an undefined replacement that costs no more than £15 million to spearhead a Championship campaign, I'd go for the former every single day of the week. 

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Just now, canarydan23 said:

Nothing is guaranteed in a head to head Pukki or an undefined replacement that costs no more than £15 million to spearhead a Championship campaign, I'd go for the former every single day of the week. 

In terms of a one-off season, you're probably right, although obviously nothing is guaranteed, as we've both said.

But with the 'self-funding model', Pukki will have very little resale value after this summer, whereas a younger £10-15m striker most likely will.

That's why it could be worth exploring the possibility of selling Pukki and investing the money in someone who could potentially give us several good years whilst also retaining their transfer value. 

I'm not saying that we should definitely do this, but I do think it would be foolish to not at least explore the possibility.

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If he wants to stay, I'd keep Teemu. But at the moment he doesn't look right.

 I think following his injury he hit a bad run of form and psychologically I think our squad was on the rocks in January. From there I think he might have his failures at the top level in Spain, Germany and Scotland weighing heavy on him, plus the responsibility of being our only goalscorer.

China were interested put he wanted a crack at the PL. I think the one thing that would really keep him here is wanting to play And score as much as possible before the Euros at a good standard.

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I've always thought Hanley is pretty quick over a short distance (and a longer distance too tbf). Being quick over a short distance is generally more important for a defender like that.

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3 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

There's no guarantee Pukki would get us goals in the Championship next season. Sure, he had a great season last year and a very good start to this season, but his confidence was sky high during that period, and he clearly had the motivation and hunger to experience Premier League football.

Fast forward a year or so, and his confidence is rock bottom and he doesn't have much left to prove on the domestic stage- he'll never play for a genuine 'big club' as he hasn't got that many years left in him now. His priority next season will probably be making sure that he stays injury-free ahead of Finland's first ever Euros, where he'll be the star player.

Like I said, a £10-15m fee for a 30-year-old at Championship level isn't a bad deal if we can find the right player to replace him.

I'd be fairly confident in saying that Pukki is a Premiership player. His sudden downturn in form can be traced back to his toe injury vs Leicester. Since then, we have relied on him and, despite his best intentions, he has struggled.

Next season, in a donminat team, who create 10+ chances (instead on 1), I'm certain that he'll find his feet again.

Will he leave? Possibly (if the money was right), however he has finally settled at a club that can match his expectations (opportunies and expectations).

As mentioned, he is the wrong side of 30 and clubs will be reluctant to pay the kind of fee required for players of that age.

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Pukki was a lot more effective playing off Stiepermann, who had a bit of physicality. Marco didn’t score enough himself playing the no. 10 role, but then maybe that was a price worth paying.  Other than Todd, nobody else looks like scoring anyway.

I think Marco and Mario will be off in the summer - why slog through the Championship again when you know you won’t get a crack at the Premier if we did go up.

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27 minutes ago, Yellow and Green said:

I'd be fairly confident in saying that Pukki is a Premiership player. His sudden downturn in form can be traced back to his toe injury vs Leicester. Since then, we have relied on him and, despite his best intentions, he has struggled.

Next season, in a donminat team, who create 10+ chances (instead on 1), I'm certain that he'll find his feet again.

Will he leave? Possibly (if the money was right), however he has finally settled at a club that can match his expectations (opportunies and expectations).

As mentioned, he is the wrong side of 30 and clubs will be reluctant to pay the kind of fee required for players of that age.

I agree with that.

I too think Pukki will come good next year, but as I said, there's no guarantee. Aside from a 17-goal and a 20-goal season in his four years at Brondby, these two seasons (29 and 11) are the best two goalscoring seasons of Pukki's career and he's 30.

With an early goal or two next season, his form and confidence would slowly come back and he'd probably have a good season.

Of course he won't be worth a huge fee (if he were 23 he'd be worth £40m) but he has been linked with Chinese and Turkish clubs in the past and I'm sure they'd be happy to pay a £10m+ fee with lucrative wages.

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11 hours ago, lake district canary said:

No it hasn't, it has just been put on hold while we all deal with the fact we are 99.99% certain of being relegated. It's a kind of grieving for what might have been, but the fans will bounce back with enthusiasm, the players will deal with it in their own way and the new season will start with new hope.  Togetherness will reappear, it has just taken a vacation. 

 

Afraid it has. Unfortunately there were many like yourself not prepared to accept this season as whatever will be. With the abuse being thrown at a number of our players would you want to stay ?. Had lock down have not happened this squad would have been applauded from the pitch at the point of relegation. Unfortunately many fans ( not just on here ) have turned against Farke and Webber. I suspect we will now have to start again from scratch.

 

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5 minutes ago, Well b back said:

A Unfortunately many fans ( not just on here ) have turned against Farke and Webber. I suspect we will now have to start again from scratch.

That my friend is pure speculation - and even if it was true, what kind of person shows such lack of awareness of what the club are trying to achieve with this project?  What kind of fan forgets last season? Or the amount of progress that has been made in terms of value to players and to the club, that will enable more development in future seasons? What kind of fans shows no recognition of the injuries we had in defence that were so crucial that has affected our chances this season?  Or the low overall resources we have compared to bigger clubs? 

So it is painful right now....well to those who can't take it, I have to say, bless, deal with it, recognise the positives that have been achieved in the last three years, the wonderful football experiences we had last season and the memories of some great occasions even this season.  Relegation sucks, but there is a world of difference if we are going down this time, the health of the finances, the wealth of young talent both in the squad and coming through from the U23s and at youth level.

Lots to look forward to, a healthy club, a manager who loves the club and shows such empathy towards fans, as well as having a vision of how he wants football to be played - a vision that has seen us play some superb football during the season, as well as poor stuff.  A sporting director who in combination with DF has brought in over three years players that have been roaring successes - Pukki, over forty goals over two seasons for instance - some problems of course, but then this is the premier league where the pressure is relentess.

The more I think about it, the more it beggars belief that anyone could turn around and say they want change after what has happened to transform the club over the last three years, from a basket case with huge money problems, to a club competing at the top table with the best players and teams perhaps in the world and with a plethora of young players who will go on to have brilliant careers either with us or elsewhere.

So if anyone really thinks that the manager and sporting director should go, then they need to take a good long look at themselves.

 

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Unless he's desperate to go I think the idea that the club would accept £10-15m for Pukki is daft. That's virtually the going rate for a championship striker and many who have fetched that kind of money even struggle there (Rhodes, Asombalonga). I suppose the club may have their eyes on a cheaper, younger foreign replacement but I think it would be a huge gamble for not a large amount of money.

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