DF - loyalty, love for the club, seeing the project through

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,781]

3 minutes ago, Aggy said:

Why? Before us he basically managed a reserve team and In his one top flight season he has looked tactically out of his depth. I am all for him staying next season, but I don’t see how he’d be practically top of any Bundesliga club’s list. There are a lot of managers with much better CVs than Farke, many who play equally nice football but can also set up a team to defend. He’s still young as a coach, so I’m not saying he won’t be there in a few years time, but right now, I just don’t see him being top of many Bundesliga club’s lists at all. 

Agree completely. His stock was probably high enough to attract the attention of the Bundesliga's bottom half after promotion, but would he be top of a Bundesliga team's list now after what we've seen this season? I'd find it hard to believe.

[vos 155]

I find the timing of his comments very relevant. We are at the peak of negative comments made towards him after a bad run. All football supporters have short memories and seem to think a Manager will always be successful. It rarely works like that. I think he is sending out a signal that he is only human and if the criticism reaches unacceptable levels he has other alternatives. I believe he is living locally without his family and one would assume that an attractive offer from a good German side will certainly give him a lot to think about. 

[lake district canary 4,531]

3 minutes ago, Aggy said:

Why? Before us he basically managed a reserve team and In his one top flight season he has looked tactically out of his depth. I am all for him staying next season, but I don’t see how he’d be practically top of any Bundesliga club’s list. There are a lot of managers with much better CVs than Farke, many who play equally nice football but can also set up a team to defend. He’s still young as a coach, so I’m not saying he won’t be there in a few years time, but right now, I just don’t see him being top of many Bundesliga club’s lists at all. 

I think you underestimate the impression he has made in creating a Championship winning team from nothing, which is what he did at Norwich over two years.  He started with totally new players from scratch, instilled a spirit and togetheness as a club that was - and is - remarkable, both in the scale of the achievement and the style of it. Take his Dortmund background too  (B team or not, it is still Dortmund) and his cv is up there with the best. 

His insistence on playing the same style of football in the PL is testament to his belief in how football should be played - and at a club that could afford to buy top players, his methods would work superbly well. That he has struggled to get the team successful this season is more to do with resources than his ability. 

He has also shown loyalty and commitment to the club - again a trait that will be valued by the best clubs. All in all, I don't know how anyone could think he will not be in demand by any top club, particularly in Germany.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,781]

1 minute ago, lake district canary said:

I think you underestimate the impression he has made in creating a Championship winning team from nothing, which is what he did at Norwich over two years.  He started with totally new players from scratch, instilled a spirit and togetheness as a club that was - and is - remarkable, both in the scale of the achievement and the style of it. Take his Dortmund background too  (B team or not, it is still Dortmund) and his cv is up there with the best. 

His insistence on playing the same style of football in the PL is testament to his belief in how football should be played - and at a club that could afford to buy top players, his methods would work superbly well. That he has struggled to get the team successful this season is more to do with resources than his ability. 

He has also shown loyalty and commitment to the club - again a trait that will be valued by the best clubs. All in all, I don't know how anyone could think he will not be in demand by any top club, particularly in Germany.

His only top flight experience has been a total disaster. If 'top clubs' come calling, his CV would be very weak in comparison to the other coaches they'd be looking at. 

[First Wazzock 902]

He has stated before that he will see his contract out, and I have no reason to disbelieve him.

When their contracts are up both he and Webber will go, and I'm quietly confident it will be onto better things

[Jim Smith 2,314]

I think Farke has had a poor season but I struggle to find many (if any) genuine fans who want him sacked or don't think he's the guy who should lead our attempts to get back up again next year. Likeable guy and good coach, just needs to learn the lessons from this season in terms of game management at this level and perhaps also what a squad needs to be able to compete physically. I'm sure he will do. 

[lake district canary 4,531]

6 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

His only top flight experience has been a total disaster. If 'top clubs' come calling, his CV would be very weak in comparison to the other coaches they'd be looking at. 

It has not been a disaster in the eyes of clubs who want a coach to play a certain style of football - the kind of football we witnessed last season and in spells this season. His style of football has been praised this season to the extent that earlier this season we have been called the best team to ever be at the bottom of the league. So top clubs will not be looking at him from how he does with a club with small resources - they will be looking at him to see what kind of football he plays and what other qualities he can bring.  

So we lost too many games this season, but as many have said, this is down to being a club on less resources than every other team in the division.  Give DF a quality and settled back four (not one that has been beset by injuries), a midfield of superb skill AND experience (the latter of which we have not had) and a couple of top quality strikers (not just one upon too much hope has been put) - and you would see the kind of football the likes of Man City and Liverpool play.  He will move on to a bigger club at some stage, without doubt, but as long as we can keep him, then we can look forward to football like last season and at times this season. 

This season has been largely very disappointing in terms of results, but in other ways there is a lot to be proud of - the young players developing, the style of football as against Man City and in cup games, as well as against Leicester twice - and actually in quite a lot of games where we dominated for long spells, without quite having the firepower/physicality to get us over the line - and is it Farke's fault that we didn't have that extra that we needed? No, it is a case of resources, for which DF accepted and knew when he took the job, but had no control over.

Bigger clubs will be well aware of our situation, the qualities DF brings to the table, a fresh young coach with the ability to inspire and instill top values of ethics allied to an often scintillating way of playing football and who has reached the top division in the UK on a shoestring budget. So any top club that wants the best will look at DF as a real contender for their next coach. We will do well to keep him - it looks as if he will honour his contract, which is brilliant, but he will be hard to keep hold of after that and if we go down and get promoted again, it will be with a better and stronger set up than we have had so far - because that was the plan and has been all along, to develop over four or five years. We've had him for three years which have flown by, I hope we get to keep him for at least the next two seasons and if possible beyond that - but make no mistake, bigger clubs will be tracking him as their next coach. As I said, we will do well to hang on to him.

[Aggy 752]

Just now, lake district canary said:

. Take his Dortmund background too  (B team or not, it is still Dortmund) and his cv is up there with the best. 

His “Dortmund background” was taking a side who had just been relegated from the third tier of German football to fourth place in the fourth tier, then missing out on promotion again the following year by nine points. It would be like someone taking over at Tranmere in the summer and finishing in the league 2 playoffs two years in a row. You’re saying that competes with Mourinho?

 

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,131]

Many other clubs, particularly those in Europe where survival in the top division isn't as vital financially as it is here will be looking at his reputation as a coach. They will look at the amount we spent and the signings we made and would largely write off this season if they were interested in his coaching ability to bring through young players and add value to their squad. He also plays good football that fans will like and doesn't cause problems for the clubs board by moaning about how much backing he is given. 

 

There's a very good reason the likes of Sam Allardyce etc don't generally attract interest from abroad, the profile they are looking at is generally much different from here where at most clubs it's entirely results driven. Even when we go down i expect Farke to still be in demand and very attractive for clubs in Europe. 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,781]

8 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

It has not been a disaster in the eyes of clubs who want a coach to play a certain style of football 

It has been disaster in the eyes of those who want results. Big clubs wants to win trophies or play in Europe, and for that style isn't enough. 

Edited July 3, 2020 by Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man

[Aggy 752]

9 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

It has not been a disaster in the eyes of clubs who want a coach to play a certain style of football -

What style,of football have we played this season? Fewest goals scored (by a long way), most goals conceded, worst goal difference by 11, rock bottom. 
 

We haven’t even looked dangerous. In fact, against Man Utd in the cup, where we played more pragmatically, I thought we had more decent chances and got into better positions more often than we had done in pretty much every game this season when trying to play more like we did in the championship. When we’ve tried to play “a certain style of football” we’ve looked turgid, unthreatening and laughable defensively. When we played more pragmatically we looked more solid , more dangerous going forward and played better football in the final third. Go figure.

[Sideshow Tim 110]

Farke has had the luxury of hiding behind the ‘spending no money’ excuse this season. He’s tried, its failed but there have been many times that I have been perplexed by his decisions (especially this season) and eventually, you would think that these decisions will come back to haunt you?!
 

Im not much of a Farke fan myself (although I have great admiration for what he did for the club last season, I do think he did get lucky) I have a strong feeling that this will all go a bit Pete Tonge by the 3rd month of next season (whenever that maybe?!) 

[Aggy 752]

26 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

- but make no mistake, bigger clubs will be tracking him as their next coach. As I said, we will do well to hang on to him.

Err...no, you said he would be “top of practically any Bundesliga club's list - he could probaly walk into any of them”. I don’t think anyone would be shocked if a top flight club gave him a go. But that’s very different to being, as you suggested, top of the list for and able to walk into managing any club in the Bundesliga, or being “up there with the best”.

Edited July 3, 2020 by Aggy

[Uncle Fred 526]

I agree sideshow, it’s all starting to fall apart he should preserve his reputation and call it quits at the end of this season rejoin his family and have a cracking career back in Germany

we can than move on to a fresh start and hopefully something more sustainable back in the premier league 

[lake district canary 4,531]

1 hour ago, Aggy said:

When we’ve tried to play “a certain style of football” we’ve looked turgid, unthreatening and laughable defensively.

  You must have been watching a different club than me. Many of the matches we've played this season have had periods in them where the football has been simply breathtaking to watch. First half against Wolves. Against Spurs. Against Leicester - twice. And plenty of other games.

I get it, we have had a bad season results wise, but there are other reasons for that than the ability of the coach and the kind of football he wants to play.

[non-scoring strikers 113]

7 hours ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

Many other clubs, particularly those in Europe where survival in the top division isn't as vital financially as it is here will be looking at his reputation as a coach. They will look at the amount we spent and the signings we made and would largely write off this season if they were interested in his coaching ability to bring through young players and add value to their squad. He also plays good football that fans will like and doesn't cause problems for the clubs board by moaning about how much backing he is given. 

 

There's a very good reason the likes of Sam Allardyce etc don't generally attract interest from abroad, the profile they are looking at is generally much different from here where at most clubs it's entirely results driven. Even when we go down i expect Farke to still be in demand and very attractive for clubs in Europe. 

Why would top division clubs looking for a new manager "write off" a potential new manager's only season managing in a top division? 

Cantwell looks slightly better than he did last season but playing young players is different to developing them. Our other younger players look bereft of confidence and shadows of what they were last season. 

[Making Plans 936]

8 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Many of the matches we've played this season have had periods in them where the football has been simply breathtaking to watch. First half against Wolves. Against Spurs. Against Leicester - twice. And plenty of other games.

Absolute fantasy.

I agree that we have really played well in maybe 4 or 5 games.

I also agree that we've had the odd 15 or 20 minutes spells in a few other games when we've looked decent.

But, in the vast majority of games, especially against weaker teams, we have been out thought, out fought and out played.

You don't get anything in this, or any other, league with consistently poor performances across a whole season.

Now for me, Farke has had plenty of time to sort things out and improve the team from where it was in October.

Unfortunately he hasn't done that and if anything we got worse as the season progressed.

Even after the lay off, when you would have thought that the team would be fired up, they have looked unfit, unmotivated and unprepared.

And all of that must be down to the coach.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Making Plans

[lake district canary 4,531]

1 hour ago, Making Plans said:

Absolute fantasy.

I agree that we have really played well in maybe 4 or 5 games.

I also agree that we've had the odd 15 or 20 minutes spells in a few other games when we've looked decent.

But, in the vast majority of games, especially against weaker teams, we have been out thought, out fought and out played.

You don't get anything in this, or any other, league with consistently poor performances across a whole season.

Now for me, Farke has had plenty of time to sort things out and improve the team from where it was in October.

Unfortunately he hasn't done that and if anything we got worse as the season progressed.

Even after the lay off, when you would have thought that the team would be fired up, they have looked unfit, unmotivated and unprepared.

And all of that must be down to the coach.

Amazing how people see things differently. I wonder if Pukki had put a few of his chances away after Christmas or if Var had allowed his super goal against Spurs and we had picked up a few more points as a result, would the season have looked so bad?  No. So you can say it is down to the coach if you like, but that is simplistic in the extreme. 

And talk of "after the lay off" and coming back as if everything is back to normal, is just ridiculous. They definitely have not looked "underfit" or "unmotivated" - what rubbish.  Underprepared?  Well maybe, but only in the sense of the strained and unusual situation of the behind closed doors scenario which all clubs have had to get their heads around. That first game against Southampton favoured the away team in every way - as nearly every away team did in the league in those first few games. Now players are more atuned to it and used to what it is like, they can adjust to it. 

DF is responsible for the team, but we as supporters have a great view of it, we can see as well as anyone the ins and outs of this strange season and how it has developed - and Farke is not a magician - he has produced a team capable of winning the most competitive league perhaps in the world and brought it to the top league on a shoe string - and to then with those small resources combined with key injuries in defence tried to maintain a style of football that we all want to see - and at it's best it is good enough, as seen against Man City and away at Leicester paticularly. 

[Aggy 752]

10 hours ago, lake district canary said:

  You must have been watching a different club than me. Many of the matches we've played this season have had periods in them where the football has been simply breathtaking to watch. First half against Wolves. Against Spurs. Against Leicester - twice. And plenty of other games.

I get it, we have had a bad season results wise, but there are other reasons for that than the ability of the coach and the kind of football he wants to play.

I shall treat your reference to us playing breathtaking football this season the same way as your suggestion that a manager missing out on promotion in the fourth tier of German football is somehow comparable to Mourinho, Guardiola, Klopp, Ancelotti etc.

[ron obvious 1,501]

2 hours ago, Making Plans said:

Absolute fantasy.

I agree that we have really played well in maybe 4 or 5 games.

I also agree that we've had the odd 15 or 20 minutes spells in a few other games when we've looked decent.

But, in the vast majority of games, especially against weaker teams, we have been out thought, out fought and out played.

You don't get anything in this, or any other, league with consistently poor performances across a whole season.

Now for me, Farke has had plenty of time to sort things out and improve the team from where it was in October.

Unfortunately he hasn't done that and if anything we got worse as the season progressed.

Even after the lay off, when you would have thought that the team would be fired up, they have looked unfit, unmotivated and unprepared.

And all of that must be down to the coach.

FFS

We've had most of our first choice CBs missing all season. We're now down to one - inexperienced -  first choice & one who's just back from a year long injury plagued absence. 

Hoe could other clubs even BEGIN to cope with that?? How do you begin to build a proper team strategy? Game plan?

ManC were complaining that they lost against us because they were missing ONE first choice CB!!!!!!!!!!!! In a squad worth hundreds of millions!!

Posters here complain we don't spend enough, if we'd only bought this or that player then everything would've been rosy - then say that missing key players doesn't matter, it's all the managers fault!!

How in God's name does that work??!!

[lake district canary 4,531]

 

2 minutes ago, Aggy said:

10 hours ago, lake district canary said:

  You must have been watching a different club than me. Many of the matches we've played this season have had periods in them where the football has been simply breathtaking to watch. First half against Wolves. Against Spurs. Against Leicester - twice. And plenty of other games.

I get it, we have had a bad season results wise, but there are other reasons for that than the ability of the coach and the kind of football he wants to play.

I shall treat your reference to us playing breathtaking football this season the same way as your suggestion that a manager missing out on promotion in the fourth tier of German football is somehow comparable to Mourinho, Guardiola, Klopp, Ancelotti etc.

For a club of our stature and resources to play some of the football we have seen against rich clubs where one player cost as much as the whole of our squad, has been quite revealing. It's ultimately not been good enough, but what do you want from our manager? Miracles?  We are playing football in a certain way that at its best is superb to watch - and again, at it's best - can beat the best.

What more do you want from a manager?  Circumstances have been against us all season as well - the lack of fit defenders to start with then the enforced break and sureal restart.

[Aggy 752]

1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

 

For a club of our stature and resources to play some of the football we have seen against rich clubs where one player cost as much as the whole of our squad, has been quite revealing. It's ultimately not been good enough, but what do you want from our manager? Miracles?  We are playing football in a certain way that at its best is superb to watch - and again, at it's best - can beat the best.

What more do you want from a manager?  Circumstances have been against us all season as well - the lack of fit defenders to start with then the enforced break and sureal restart.

Sorry, which bit of my last post that you’ve quoted suggested I was expecting miracles? Does suggesting our manager doesn’t have a CV “up here with the best” or that he could not “walk into managing any Bundesliga club” mean I expect him to perform miracles? 

Edited July 4, 2020 by Aggy

[Making Plans 936]

4 hours ago, ron obvious said:

FFS

We've had most of our first choice CBs missing all season. We're now down to one - inexperienced -  first choice & one who's just back from a year long injury plagued absence. 

Hoe could other clubs even BEGIN to cope with that?? How do you begin to build a proper team strategy? Game plan?

ManC were complaining that they lost against us because they were missing ONE first choice CB!!!!!!!!!!!! In a squad worth hundreds of millions!!

Posters here complain we don't spend enough, if we'd only bought this or that player then everything would've been rosy - then say that missing key players doesn't matter, it's all the managers fault!!

How in God's name does that work??!!

Sorry but Farke is finished here.

The players are no longer playing for him.

That has been evident since the restart and if anybody was in any doubt about that then today's pathetic attempt to win a football match for the Manager, when he above everybody else needed it most, only served to confirm that the players no longer believe in him, his team selections or his tatics.

 

Edited July 4, 2020 by Making Plans

[lake district canary 4,531]

6 hours ago, Making Plans said:

Sorry but Farke is finished here.

The players are no longer playing for him.

That has been evident since the restart and if anybody was in any doubt about that then today's pathetic attempt to win a football match for the Manager, when he above everybody else needed it most, only served to confirm that the players no longer believe in him, his team selections or his tatics.

 

Codswallop.

[yellow_belly 226]

On 04/07/2020 at 01:09, lake district canary said:

  You must have been watching a different club than me. Many of the matches we've played this season have had periods in them where the football has been simply breathtaking to watch. First half against Wolves. Against Spurs. Against Leicester - twice. And plenty of other games.

I get it, we have had a bad season results wise, but there are other reasons for that than the ability of the coach and the kind of football he wants to play.

Hi LDC,

Do you refer to the 1-2 loss or 3-0 loss against Wolves.

or the mighty points gained against Tottenham 1.

2-2 draw or 2-1 loss

 

In fairness we did get 4 points against Leicester.

 

The more interesting facts are that we have not got any points from the bottom teams this season (apart from Bournemouth)... this has been our undoing.

[All the Germans 1,075]

15 hours ago, Making Plans said:

Sorry but Farke is finished here.

No he isn't.

[yellow_belly 226]

I wonder if Farke resigns. I have a feeling he will Because he has gin as far as he can with us and lockdown has made him yearn for a return home. After all DF and some of the players returned ‘home’ for lockdown. I can’t blame him. 

[lake district canary 4,531]

1 hour ago, yellow_belly said:

I wonder if Farke resigns. I have a feeling he will Because he has gin as far as he can with us and lockdown has made him yearn for a return home. After all DF and some of the players returned ‘home’ for lockdown. I can’t blame him. 

I think the mental affects of the lockdown have been under estimated on the football side of things. People sometimes treat the players and managers as if they are robots, but they will have had the same fears and difficulties as the rest of us, added to by being away from home. You can say it's the same for all players and managers from every team, but it is aways going to affect some more than others, depending on individual situations.

I think like plenty of us, DF will have struggled mentally with it, he is after all a deep thinker and quite sensitive too, but he is also a strong character and he will ride above it and stick with us.  We love him after all (well most of us do) as I am sure do most of the players. 

[FenwayFrank 2,457]

On 03/07/2020 at 22:37, vos said:

. I believe he is living locally without his family

I think his family moved over at the end of last season but am happy to be corrected 

[Uncle Fred 526]

1 minute ago, FenwayFrank said:

I think his family moved over at the end of last season but am happy to be corrected 

#stalking