Talk sport selling our players

[curious yellow 184]

I think it makes sense to sell the top prospects so we can keep players like Stiepermann and Vrancic who we know can do a good job in the Championship. 

At the same time bring young players through, then eventually have some money for replacements. 

[Crafty Canary 495]

20 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Argentina  is a massive Country  with huge divides, Political, ethnic, Class. Not sure if Bielsa would put up with the wavy arm I've just been tackled flaw in Emi's game. But you are correct about them being the same nationality, they Also both earn a living from football.. there's  another connection. Done Deal .😁😇😉👍

 

If you were Emi you might find a move to an EPL club with a head coach who understands your temperament and approach to football an attractive proposition. Try leaving the sarcasm at the door next time.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Crafty Canary

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

My point was that nationality aside I really dont think Emi is aBielsa  type of player , just not disciplined enough. Had he kicked on this season then maybe , yep, good chance creation ,but  no goals and atrocious set pieces . As for the  mild sarcasm , which I hadn't really noticed as I wrote, apologies  .

[Nuff Said 5,088]

1 hour ago, HazzaJet said:

... If we do allow other clubs to hold talks with our players the player themselves also need to think carefully. A lot of our players are quite young and still have a lot more experience to obtain. Some of them, despite being young, are getting regular first team football with us like Aarons, Godfrey and Cantwell - exactly what they require. If they did get offered a contract by a bigger club they need think whether it would be a wise idea to accept it. Yes they would almost certainly get higher wages, but would they still get the experience that they are currently getting with us? They could end up wrecking their career if they’re not careful.

As I said, it can’t be guaranteed that we will keep them all but I do believe that we stand quite a good chance of retaining a fair amount of our key players for next season, we’ll just have to wait and see 

We get this every transfer window and it’s green and yellow tinted rubbish I’m afraid. Playing football is how these young men earn their living and the one who turns down a big money move is one in a thousand, no matter how much they like the club or appreciate what it’s done for them. Don’t forget most of them have only been with us for a couple of years.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

Liverpool today said they won't be lining up marquee signings due to Covid scenario so I wonder if they might "downgrade" to a couple of our £30-40m options...

[Alex Moss 2,165]

Still trust my info about Cantwell and Liverpool - Lallana’s replacement. Couldn’t really come from someone any closer to Liverpool so I have no doubts. But that said, things can always fall through at any given moment so I am keeping my fingers crossed - it’s happened with other ins and outs at Liverpool in the past so we’ll see. 

I think Jamal is the player most under the radar but also most likely to go alongside Aaron’s. We’ve already signed his replacement for next season. He just gets on with the job, I think he gets overshadowed by some of the other youngsters, but he’s a really good young player, very steady and I can’t really recall him having a bad game for us - which speaks volumes. Mr Consistency. That won’t have gone unnoticed.

Max - he’s gone, if he isn’t at Spurs next season then I’ll eat my hat. That looks a done deal to me. 

That picture of Godfrey and OGS does look like two people that have met more than once before, the look they’re giving each other just suggests there’s some familiarity between the pair - not to mention, you can bet your life Rio’s been sticking his oar in. He’s a future Man Utd CB is Ben, am sure of that. I’m guessing that’s where his next move will be.

As for Buendia, anyone who has to debate whether he’s up to it ability wise should probably start following something else. Either you’ve got it or you ain’t, and it’s clear that despite not being the finished article by some distance, he *has* got it. It’s more a question of developing him as a player, in consistency and temperament. But technical ability wise, which isn’t in doubt unless you’re blind, he isn’t going to be getting any worse. Wouldn’t be surprised to see him move on to a mid table Prem side (for now).

Tmmy Krul - he’s a Premier League keeper. And he will want a chance to play in the Euro’s next season. So I wouldn’t rule him out leaving either.

Michael McGovern - I think we’ll keep him.

[king canary 7,578]

6 hours ago, Alex Moss said:

Still trust my info about Cantwell and Liverpool - Lallana’s replacement. Couldn’t really come from someone any closer to Liverpool so I have no doubts. But that said, things can always fall through at any given moment so I am keeping my fingers crossed - it’s happened with other ins and outs at Liverpool in the past so we’ll see. 

I think Jamal is the player most under the radar but also most likely to go alongside Aaron’s. We’ve already signed his replacement for next season. He just gets on with the job, I think he gets overshadowed by some of the other youngsters, but he’s a really good young player, very steady and I can’t really recall him having a bad game for us - which speaks volumes. Mr Consistency. That won’t have gone unnoticed.

Max - he’s gone, if he isn’t at Spurs next season then I’ll eat my hat. That looks a done deal to me. 

That picture of Godfrey and OGS does look like two people that have met more than once before, the look they’re giving each other just suggests there’s some familiarity between the pair - not to mention, you can bet your life Rio’s been sticking his oar in. He’s a future Man Utd CB is Ben, am sure of that. I’m guessing that’s where his next move will be.

As for Buendia, anyone who has to debate whether he’s up to it ability wise should probably start following something else. Either you’ve got it or you ain’t, and it’s clear that despite not being the finished article by some distance, he *has* got it. It’s more a question of developing him as a player, in consistency and temperament. But technical ability wise, which isn’t in doubt unless you’re blind, he isn’t going to be getting any worse. Wouldn’t be surprised to see him move on to a mid table Prem side (for now).

Tmmy Krul - he’s a Premier League keeper. And he will want a chance to play in the Euro’s next season. So I wouldn’t rule him out leaving either.

Michael McGovern - I think we’ll keep him.

This all sounds possible but it does mean we're going to have to some serious work to meet the home grown rules if we go down and we'll need to slim the foreign contingent in the squad.

As of now I think you have to name 7 home grown players in your matchday 18.

Looking at our current squad that would mean you've got 11 places available for the following players...

McGovern

Klose

Zimmerman

Heise

Rupp

Vrancic

Leitner

Hernandez

Buendia

Trybull

Steipermann

Tettey

McLean

Sitti

Drmic 

Pukki

So at least 5 of those players will miss out each week. Now I'd expect Heise and Leitner to go but we'll still either need to trim this lot significantly or be left in a position where we can't really sign anyone else who doesn't fit the home grown criteria. 

[Alex Moss 2,165]

19 minutes ago, king canary said:

This all sounds possible but it does mean we're going to have to some serious work to meet the home grown rules if we go down and we'll need to slim the foreign contingent in the squad.

As of now I think you have to name 7 home grown players in your matchday 18.

Looking at our current squad that would mean you've got 11 places available for the following players...

McGovern

Klose

Zimmerman

Heise

Rupp

Vrancic

Leitner

Hernandez

Buendia

Trybull

Steipermann

Tettey

McLean

Sitti

Drmic 

Pukki

So at least 5 of those players will miss out each week. Now I'd expect Heise and Leitner to go but we'll still either need to trim this lot significantly or be left in a position where we can't really sign anyone else who doesn't fit the home grown criteria. 

Good points KC. I think as you’ve rightly highlighted, we need X amount of homegrown players next season, so that does work in our favour with regards to keeping some of our top talents. Although all that we’ve said seems very plausible, I look at my post for instance and think ‘yep, that’s how I see it anyway but realistically surely we wouldn’t sell the lot?’. They all qualify for a move if that’s what they so desire, but it just seems unfathomable that they’d all depart. Maybe they will, but with say Ben and Todd coming back on loan for a season as part of the agreement (if in Championship).
 

Maybe this summer window won’t be as harsh on us as we fear...

[king canary 7,578]

2 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

Good points KC. I think as you’ve rightly highlighted, we need X amount of homegrown players next season, so that does work in our favour with regards to keeping some of our top talents. Although all that we’ve said seems very plausible, I look at my post for instance and think ‘yep, that’s how I see it anyway but realistically surely we wouldn’t sell the lot?’. They all qualify for a move if that’s what they so desire, but it just seems unfathomable that they’d all depart. Maybe they will, but with say Ben and Todd coming back on loan for a season as part of the agreement (if in Championship).
 

Maybe this summer window won’t be as harsh on us as we fear...

I don't think our need for homegrown players will really change who we sell- just more of a focus on who we buy.

You'd like to think the fees we'd get for those key players would put us in a position to do a bit more Championship/League One cherry picking ala McCallum. 

[Dr Greenthumb 746]

7 minutes ago, king canary said:

I don't think our need for homegrown players will really change who we sell- just more of a focus on who we buy.

You'd like to think the fees we'd get for those key players would put us in a position to do a bit more Championship/League One cherry picking ala McCallum. 

I’d imagine the prices of championship and league one players will have decreased a little too

[king canary 7,578]

2 minutes ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

I’d imagine the prices of championship and league one players will have decreased a little too

Yeah- it does make you wonder if a team like Derby for example might be open to selling someone like Bielik for a lower fee than expected. 

[Dr Greenthumb 746]

Just now, king canary said:

Yeah- it does make you wonder if a team like Derby for example might be open to selling someone like Bielik for a lower fee than expected. 

I’d imagine with the pandemic and FFP, a lot of clubs have been hard in the pocket. Derby are a good example, as they are having a hard time atm. But somehow still managed to bring Rooney in. The prem clubs are going to be vulturing a lot of talent from the champs. The likes of Eze won’t be £20m this time around. 

[FenwayFrank 2,456]

So Luke Woolfenden isn’t worth £5m then ? 😁

[Alex Moss 2,165]

2 minutes ago, king canary said:

I don't think our need for homegrown players will really change who we sell- just more of a focus on who we buy.

You'd like to think the fees we'd get for those key players would put us in a position to do a bit more Championship/League One cherry picking ala McCallum. 

Exactly, this is sort of the point I’m trying to make to Jim Smith and CanaryWundaboy etc. Say we sell 3 of our 6 top assets, we will bank a really tidy sum there. And I don’t know this, it is just my opinion, but I think part of Webber’s plans is to largely self finance our future transfer kitty’s. So, for example, we get £75mil for 3 of those players, with some clever scouting we could probably buy another 3 young talents for say £15mil (maybe considerably less) and then we’ve got £60mil+ to take forward next summer IF we’re promoted. Now all of that money won’t be available for transfers, I realise that, but I honestly feel the plan was to see if we could sneak another stay next season in the Premier without spending hardly anything, we were basically coming up to commit some financial robbery of the PL’s wealth, which we have certainly achieved. My feeling is that they knew if we went down, which is looking likely, we’ll be in a fantastic position to get promoted again next season, and phase 1 of having built the kitty will be mission accomplished. It means that next summer, all being well means that we can start taking us to the next level in spending (not a massive jump I might add), but enough to give us a better chance of staying in the top tier. I think that’s the plan, and to me it seems quite clever, that’s why I’m backing it 100%. Hope that makes sense - not had my morning coffee yet ha ha

[Mello Yello 2,278]

My Brother in Law is a dedicated lifelong Man Utd fan, which is quite unusual in itself as he was actually born and bred in Manchester.....He reckons that credible info from his mate, who knows a mate who fishes occasionally in the Manchester ship canal. Is that our Todd and Ben are attracting interest from Utd.....I think Ben will improve his all round game at Utd......

Personally, I also think that the Red Shirted scouse club might gazump Utd for Todd.....  

[king canary 7,578]

11 minutes ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

I’d imagine with the pandemic and FFP, a lot of clubs have been hard in the pocket. Derby are a good example, as they are having a hard time atm. But somehow still managed to bring Rooney in. The prem clubs are going to be vulturing a lot of talent from the champs. The likes of Eze won’t be £20m this time around. 

The Rooney deal was basically financed by their sponsor I think- very weird details behind it. 

[king canary 7,578]

10 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

Exactly, this is sort of the point I’m trying to make to Jim Smith and CanaryWundaboy etc. Say we sell 3 of our 6 top assets, we will bank a really tidy sum there. And I don’t know this, it is just my opinion, but I think part of Webber’s plans is to largely self finance our future transfer kitty’s. So, for example, we get £75mil for 3 of those players, with some clever scouting we could probably buy another 3 young talents for say £15mil (maybe considerably less) and then we’ve got £60mil+ to take forward next summer IF we’re promoted. Now all of that money won’t be available for transfers, I realise that, but I honestly feel the plan was to see if we could sneak another stay next season in the Premier without spending hardly anything, we were basically coming up to commit some financial robbery of the PL’s wealth, which we have certainly achieved. My feeling is that they knew if we went down, which is looking likely, we’ll be in a fantastic position to get promoted again next season, and phase 1 of having built the kitty will be mission accomplished. It means that next summer, all being well means that we can start taking us to the next level in spending (not a massive jump I might add), but enough to give us a better chance of staying in the top tier. I think that’s the plan, and to me it seems quite clever, that’s why I’m backing it 100%. Hope that makes sense - not had my morning coffee yet ha ha

While I agree with the plan I'm not sure I agree with those figures- even in a depressed market £5m doesn't get you much these days- Brighton paid Bristol nearly £20m for Adam Webster for instance. We've reportedly paid about £3m for McCallum who has just one season at League One level in terms of experience. We certainly wouldn't need to spend the full £75m if that is what we got though.

[Alex Moss 2,165]

14 minutes ago, king canary said:

While I agree with the plan I'm not sure I agree with those figures- even in a depressed market £5m doesn't get you much these days- Brighton paid Bristol nearly £20m for Adam Webster for instance. We've reportedly paid about £3m for McCallum who has just one season at League One level in terms of experience. We certainly wouldn't need to spend the full £75m if that is what we got though.

Sorry, should have made it clearer, KC - I meant not 3 x £5mil finished article players for the Premier League, I’m working on the assumption of finding your McCallum’s, Buendia’s etc both home and abroad for the coming season in the Championship if that’s where we are (to replace the likes of Max etc and keep the conveyer belt rolling). I know Emi isn’t the kind of signing for the money that you can just pull out of the hat every summer, but I still think that our recruitment team have shown if you box clever then there’s some great young talent to be found that doesn’t cost the earth. If however, we manage to stay up this season, or get promoted again next season, then I would expect us to go up another level of spending again even taking the pandemic into account. Slowly slowly catches the monkey as they say.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

This may not happen, or at least not yet, but according to the Daily Mail the EFL has raised the idea of an £18m salary cap for the Championship (with some allowances for clubs relegated from the EPL) for next season.

Certain clubs - probably not hard to imagine a few - are likely to object, and so is the Players' Union. If it was introduced it might affect our transfer plans in terms of being willing to let go this summer one or two high earners we were otherwise hoping to keep for next season.

In the longer run, though, it is either a sign that the Championship will sooner or later have a salary cap, or that it hives itself off to become a kind of Premier League Two. Nothing like a prediction that keeps its options open...🤓

[Jim Smith 2,314]

Cantwell is the one currently attracting the most hype/attention helped by his penchant for turning up and delivering stellar displays against the bigger teams and in the showpiece tv games. I think we will sell/cash in on him this summer and to be honest he's not a player who is irreplaceable for us so if we got a big fee for him to take the pressure off elsewhere that might not be a bad outcome. 

I think the chances of Pukki attracting a large bid are receding.

In my mind I think we will possibly lose all 4 that Talksport have identified plus also Godfrey but that is very much a worst case scenario, would mean we have  a lot of money and to be honest we probably have enough in next years squad to cover those losses and still be competitive without any further signings. 

[king canary 7,578]

14 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

Sorry, should have made it clearer, KC - I meant not 3 x £5mil finished article players for the Premier League, I’m working on the assumption of finding your McCallum’s, Buendia’s etc both home and abroad for the coming season in the Championship if that’s where we are (to replace the likes of Max etc and keep the conveyer belt rolling). I know Emi isn’t the kind of signing for the money that you can just pull out of the hat every summer, but I still think that our recruitment team have shown if you box clever then there’s some great young talent to be found that doesn’t cost the earth. If however, we manage to stay up this season, or get promoted again next season, then I would expect us to go up another level of spending again even taking the pandemic into account. Slowly slowly catches the monkey as they say.

No I did get that- I guess my view is that if we have that sort of wealth we should be aiming it at younger, proven Championship players rather than players from League One looking to make the step up ideally. 

So for me I'd be tempted to look at people like Matt Clarke, Matt Grimes and Bradley Dack (although not him as it turns out he's out for 6 months) who can fill a homegrown slot and shouldn't need the time to acclimatize to Championship football in the way some others have.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

You would think that if we do sell those then we will need to try and pick up one or two home grown players as part of our summer transfer business.

That said does Idah qualify as home grown now as obviously he will be in the squad every week next season and i'd expect Martin and Gilmour to feature regularly too. 

[ged in the onion bag 854]

14 hours ago, curious yellow said:

I think it makes sense to sell the top prospects so we can keep players like Stiepermann and Vrancic who we know can do a good job in the Championship. 

At the same time bring young players through, then eventually have some money for replacements. 

Can 100% guarantee you that Steipermann will never impress consistently in a City shirt again.    He over-achieved last season massively (even then wasn't as exceptional as people seem to be suggesting) and he certainly found this league a step to far.    Confidence is a major factor at this level, something that got him through last season but he knows the Prem is a step too far, his confidence will have taken a massive knock this season and it won't recover to the level we need.    There is no doubt that his touch is poor, (not even Championship level if you actually analyse it closely) even last season, it was frustrating how often he did lose possession easily.  

Add to the fact that if the plan is to develop a team to compete in the Premier League, then we need to develop players that can step up as it is clear our failure this year (apart from the injuries) is that too many did not step up.   For that reason, Trybull and Leitner (and even Vrancic) may also be surplus.   Sad but that's football.

[Clint 221]

He could be playing LB tonight Ged, up against Pepe or Auba or Ozil. Oh dear! 

[Jim Smith 2,314]

4 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Can 100% guarantee you that Steipermann will never impress consistently in a City shirt again.    He over-achieved last season massively (even then wasn't as exceptional as people seem to be suggesting) and he certainly found this league a step to far.    Confidence is a major factor at this level, something that got him through last season but he knows the Prem is a step too far, his confidence will have taken a massive knock this season and it won't recover to the level we need.    There is no doubt that his touch is poor, (not even Championship level if you actually analyse it closely) even last season, it was frustrating how often he did lose possession easily.  

Add to the fact that if the plan is to develop a team to compete in the Premier League, then we need to develop players that can step up as it is clear our failure this year (apart from the injuries) is that too many did not step up.   For that reason, Trybull and Leitner (and even Vrancic) may also be surplus.   Sad but that's football.

Think you are being harsh on Stiepermann there. Yes the prem has perhaps proven a step too far for him but no coincidence that we played pretty well in the cup v the likes of Preston and indeed Burnley with him in the side. Still think he links our midfield and attack pretty effectively.

[ged in the onion bag 854]

3 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Think you are being harsh on Stiepermann there. Yes the prem has perhaps proven a step too far for him but no coincidence that we played pretty well in the cup v the likes of Preston and indeed Burnley with him in the side. Still think he links our midfield and attack pretty effectively.

in both matches our opponents made 8-10 changes just like us, so no one was up to full speed, intensity was completely different.    Don't think that is a valid argument in this case.   I think we should expect to find better players to link our midfield and attack.  Will be interesting to see how Martin and Sinani do but what is the point of playing someone that can't step up unless we can afford big money signings which i doubt we will?    Marco's job is done.   I'm not being harsh, I watch the technical detail conscienciously and I while he may have the odd competent game, would be very surprised if he comes good consistently for us.   

[Tumbleweed 106]

In my view I would think the following are near certain departures (and good luck to them both, I hope they excel where ever they go and do us proud):

Cantwell

Aarons

and these are likely departures

Lewis

Buendia

Krul

I didn't put Godfrey in as despite the rumours  I am not sure that in a leaky central defence prone to set piece concessions that he has impressed enough a for a big offer. Can we even afford tactically to sell him with the CD and CM crisis we have? I thought he was good against Utd but has struggled at other times.

I also think Leitner  will move on, but probably not for big money.

While it would be a shame to see them all go, we obviously need to invest should we get promoted again soon, and cashing in those assets is, sadly, the only way to do it to bolster parachute payments. To me it shows that the most important job in the whole club is to maintain that pipeline of prospects  to feed through into the first team.

 

 

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

On 30/06/2020 at 09:45, king canary said:

Personally can't see that happening if these players go to top clubs.Take Aarons and Spurs for instace- who is there in the Spurs squad who would want to move to Norwich and whose wages we could afford?

 

Loans. Like the successful loans of Marcus Edwards and Harry Kane before them

[king canary 7,578]

4 minutes ago, Tumbleweed said:

Can we even afford tactically to sell him with the CD and CM crisis we have? I thought he was good against Utd but has struggled at other times.

Yes, because it wouldn't be until this season has finished.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

15 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

Atrocious set pieces

 

Why is Emi still on set pieces? I dont think I've seen him clear the first man yet. Perhaps he has the curse of Julien 'I cant kick it that far' Brellier...

You'd have thought with his fancy dan image, Cantwell would want free-kicks as part of his portfolio.

I dont know if Emi is amazing on the training ground with set pieces, but I dont see that he has improved in this area at all over the course of the season