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lake district canary

Daniel is the man!

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Posted (edited)

Yes, he is. Worked wonders to create a winning formula to get us to the PL from scratch.  Now we are there, he has not had the resources to get the team quite able enough to stay there - and by rights, our position is pretty much where most people expected.  That said, the challenge was always to try and beat the odds and do something special - well we've shown it in glimpses, but the PL is relentless, there are no gifts and we have continued to fight a losing battle.

That said, we are still in there fighting and we are still just one win from being in touch with the clubs above us. 

So come on, stop dabbling in pointless speculation, stop these stupid threads saying "ooh, we need a new manager"  when we have a perfectly good one. The day Daniel leaves the club will be a sad one and I hope he stays for years. 

So if we get relegated, we go again - and DF is the perfect man for the job, as he proved so spectacularly last time - and this time he won't be doing it from scratch because he will have a squad well atuned to what is required.  

Get a grip!

 

Edited by lake district canary
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I mean, typically I think it's generally proven that promoted teams results start of better an tail off, with the momentum that promotion brings resulting in confidence and good performances.

Unfortunately we had an absolute defensive crisis over that period of time and we've actually been in one all season in the end.

When we're talking about 6 or 7 points that could easily have been made up by just having a settled defensive unit, it's ridiculous to see some of the absolute rubbish being spouted on here.

We are not a premier league quality team - too much inexperience and not enough of the central midfield players have stepped up to the level required - but we're not a massive mile off. The injury crisis is easily apportioned to the small points different we're likely to fall short by.

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Indeed Hog, it’s how we bounce back next season. It’s imperative we convince key young players to stay, if they wish to go then demand top price for them, all long term contracts.

We need to build on where we have failed for me it’s CM, Tettey has been by far our best player in that position and that just shows where we are very weak. Hopefully we will see Sitti will be that guy to step in next season.

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Managers even Farke will have a limited time to be effective at a club it’s how the pattern of football works. Rarely do you get a Sir Alex Ferguson that can inspire  a club Year after year for decades to success 

Farke will be successful in his career but his time with us is coming to an end let’s hope Webber is skilled at succession planning 

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48 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Yes, he is. Worked wonders to create a winning formula to get us to the PL from scratch.  Now we are there, he has not had the resources to get the team quite able enough to stay there - and by rights, our position is pretty much where most people expected.  That said, the challenge was always to try and beat the odds and do something special - well we've shown it in glimpses, but the PL is relentless, there are no gifts and we have continued to fight a losing battle.

That said, we are still in there fighting and we are still just one win from being in touch with the clubs above us. 

So come on, stop dabbling in pointless speculation, stop these stupid threads saying "ooh, we need a new manager"  when we have a perfectly good one. The day Daniel leaves the club will be a sad one and I hope he stays for years. 

So if we get relegated, we go again - and DF is the perfect man for the job, as he proved so spectacularly last time - and this time he won't be doing it from scratch because he will have a squad well atuned to what is required.  

Get a grip!

Not all of us, though... some of us thought the top four was a realistic goal! 😛

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Give him 10 games at the start of next season to see what progress has been.

Expectations will be high, very high and rightly so. If it's looking good then great. If it's not then we may be due for change.

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I think his general footballing philosophy is one we can all get behind, but like too many managers (in all walks of life), he doesn't seem to learn from mistakes. One of the key things a manager CAN do during a game is make the right substitutions at the right time, and time after time it hasn't happened when it has been blatantly obvious that tired legs were going to cost us. We've competed this season, punching above our weight, and the fine margins count big time. For every bad performance the players have put in individually, he is accountable for losses as a result of his shortcomings in that department

He has my support but he must swallow his pride and adjust the game management which has been a failure. Last night's selection was also questionable, but I'm sure he has his reasons.

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21 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Not all of us, though... some of us thought the top four was a realistic goal! 😛

🙂 I was always taught "you aim high" and that for me has been a good maxim - you may not always reach where you want to go, but you gave yourself the mental approach that meant that if you were successful, you could do so without suffering from vertigo, which is what can happen if you are not in the right frame of mind for success.  I believe Daniel instills this in his players as a pre-requisite for being in his squad - you believe you can get to the top and so will not get overawed if you are successful......

I don't think being overawed has remotely been the problem this season and I believe he and the players thought they could do something special. it hasn't happened, but the same priniple as above is true now - you always believe you can do better and improve.

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I think very few people are seriously suggesting we should sack him and get someone else in. That doesn’t mean he is above criticism though. We were always going to struggle to stay up this year and relegation on itself is not a sign the manager is no good. But we have conceded for fun and haven’t scored many either. All too often we have been ripped wide apart. We haven’t looked compact pretty much ever. We continue to concede extremely soft goals from set pieces.

Trying to be more compact and defending set pieces are things which really all come down to the work on the training field and manager’s instructions. 

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Posted (edited)

No merit at all in getting rid of the manager at this stage, even if we could afford to, which we probably can’t.  But if after 10 or so games next season we’re not producing the goods with a league position to match, then I fear the writing will very much be on the wall for him, and rightly so.

Edited by Jonncfc

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1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

🙂 I was always taught "you aim high" and that for me has been a good maxim - you may not always reach where you want to go, but you gave yourself the mental approach that meant that if you were successful, you could do so without suffering from vertigo, which is what can happen if you are not in the right frame of mind for success.  I believe Daniel instills this in his players as a pre-requisite for being in his squad - you believe you can get to the top and so will not get overawed if you are successful......

I don't think being overawed has remotely been the problem this season and I believe he and the players thought they could do something special. it hasn't happened, but the same priniple as above is true now - you always believe you can do better and improve.

Your mental approach is irrelevant to NCFC's performance, though (much as I agree with your principles).

I don't doubt that Daniel believes he can learn and improve, and I believe he'll be successful next season too.

In that same spirit of learning and improvement, though, I'm sure you'll work on your pre-season predictions based on what you've learnt from this season... 😉

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Probably not a popular question this, but what sets Daniel Farke apart from the 2015/16 Alex Neil?

Neil did a fantastic job to get us up and was 'the new Messiah'. The best young manager in the country who was destined for the top, and the question was how long we'd be able to keep him for, as it was with Farke last summer.

But in the Premier League, he was given an underprepared squad that included just three centre backs (none of which were new signings) and Mbokani as the only new striker. As a result, he wasn't able to keep us up and was at times criticised for being a bit naive, out-thought by more experienced managers and too loyal to players who weren't performing. Again, it's very similar to Farke.

What gives Farke an advantage however is his ability to develop players. Aarons, Buendia, Cantwell, Lewis and Godfrey have come on leaps and bounds under Farke and are also highly valuable assets. The Murphy twins became first team players under Neil and they were sold for big money, but not on the scale of the players we have now.

Since leaving Norwich, Neil appears to have learnt, and has given interviews in which he admitted his mistakes. He has taken Preston to the edge of the playoffs for the second season in a row, which is outperforming his budget and expectations. He has done extremely well to build and maintain a side that is well organised and operates as a unit that's greater than the sum of its parts.

Hopefully, Farke can eradicate his flaws too. Moving forward, he needs to be able to organise a defence and be more proactive and flexible when things aren't working. If he can learn these things by next season then we should be in the mix to go straight back up, but Neil needed longer than that and it seems he also required a short period out of the game for reflection. 

But Farke has certainly earnt the chance to have a go at taking us back up, assuming he wants to. But if we struggle to do so, as we did under Neil, that's when we need to start seriously talking about whether Farke has run his course with us. I don't think we're at that point yet.

 

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4 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Yes, he is. Worked wonders to create a winning formula to get us to the PL from scratch.  Now we are there, he has not had the resources to get the team quite able enough to stay there - and by rights, our position is pretty much where most people expected.  That said, the challenge was always to try and beat the odds and do something special - well we've shown it in glimpses, but the PL is relentless, there are no gifts and we have continued to fight a losing battle.

That said, we are still in there fighting and we are still just one win from being in touch with the clubs above us. 

So come on, stop dabbling in pointless speculation, stop these stupid threads saying "ooh, we need a new manager"  when we have a perfectly good one. The day Daniel leaves the club will be a sad one and I hope he stays for years. 

So if we get relegated, we go again - and DF is the perfect man for the job, as he proved so spectacularly last time - and this time he won't be doing it from scratch because he will have a squad well atuned to what is required.  

Get a grip!

 

You may be right.

But a few years ago you said 'Alex Neil is the man, he'll turn it around, people who want him out need to get a grip!'

Before that it was 'Hughton is the man, he'll keep us up, if you want him sacked you need to get a grip!'

Etc etc

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2 hours ago, king canary said:

You may be right.

But a few years ago you said 'Alex Neil is the man, he'll turn it around, people who want him out need to get a grip!'

Before that it was 'Hughton is the man, he'll keep us up, if you want him sacked you need to get a grip!'

Etc etc

I think alex Neil would have seen through the clear out and brought in some new players and set us up again - and he has proved himself at Preston.  Hughton - again, might have kept us up, who knows, but he certainly would have got us going again had he stayed after relegation - he proved that at Brighton.

The point is to aim to have a long term manager. It could have been Lambert, it could have been Hughton, it could have been Neil....it could be Farke and out of the lot, I really hope it is Farke as I believe his philosophy and methods are brilliant - and I don't think this season with vastly less resources than anyone else has changed that.

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I am quite happy to stay with Farke as he has done very well particularly in developing many youngsters. He does have a poor record with his timing of substitutions and the zonal marking from set pieces etc. He is very stubborn in this respect. The concession last night from a corner, yet again, was so frustrating to see. It was not that long earlier that co-commentator Martin Keown had pointed out that Keane came up late for a corner and was unchallenged. This scenario has happened all season and I fail to understand why Farke and his coaches do not attempt to rectify the problem. It may well be the case that some better teams use the zonal marking system but it is blindingly obvious we do not have the players to make it work. He also tends to be a 60 minute plus substitution man despite it being painfully clear changes were necessary earlier. I do not understand why these blatant managerial weaknesses have continued for some time. At least I suppose you can say that in general terms he has does much better than Mourinho has at Tottenham at far lesser cost to the Club.

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13 minutes ago, Making Plans said:

One good season out of 3.

What will the 4th one bring?

First season was all about trying to instil the methods and get the right players on board. It was always designed to be a long-term plan rather than a quick fix.

Second season was brilliant.

Third season our squad was ruthlessly exposed for what it was: a group of overachieving underdogs with minimal PL experience and no budget.

All the while, in the background we've bought some quality young players from across Europe, as well as nurturing and bringing through our own talent.

It may not feel like it at the moment, but things are proceeding as planned. There's no margin for error next season, though; we have to get back up. And I believe we will.

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4 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

First season was all about trying to instil the methods and get the right players on board. It was always designed to be a long-term plan rather than a quick fix.

Second season was brilliant.

Third season our squad was ruthlessly exposed for what it was: a group of overachieving underdogs with minimal PL experience and no budget.

All the while, in the background we've bought some quality young players from across Europe, as well as nurturing and bringing through our own talent.

It may not feel like it at the moment, but things are proceeding as planned. There's no margin for error next season, though; we have to get back up. And I believe we will.

Good to have you  back Wolfo. 

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

There's no margin for error next season, though; we have to get back up. And I believe we will.

Why, what's the point?

Only to go through another season like this again in 2 years time?

No thanks, I'd rather we play some really exciting stuff next season in the Championship and finish 7th on goal difference.

There's no point in going up unless we have an owner with a bit of ambition and who takes it seriously.

It's happened to often now for it to be down to bad luck or anything else

Truth is we are a Championship Club with Championship owners and until we get one who is not content with that then that is what we will always be.

Overall, apart from the odd high spot here & there, which have been few and far between, there hasn't been a lot to cheer about this season.

 

 

Edited by Making Plans

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2 minutes ago, Making Plans said:

Why, what's the point?

Only to go through another season like this again in 2 years time?

No thanks, I'd rather we play some really exciting stuff next season in the Championship and finish 7th on goal difference.

There's no point in going up unless we have an owner with a bit of ambition and who takes it seriously.

It's happened to often now for it to be down to bad luck or anything else

Truth is we are a Championship Club with Championship owners and until we get one who is not content with that then that is what we will always be.

Overall, apart from the odd high spot here & there, which have been few and far between, there hasn't been a lot to cheer about this season.

I'm glad that Webber and Farke don't share your fatalistic approach.

I totally hear you about the Championship being more fun; I don't like the PL as the marketing-centric cesspool of greed it is, but ultimately, if we're in the PL it's great for the club, the county and the region in general. Staying there is incredibly difficult on our budget, but it's not impossible.

I would argue what's the point of us even turning up if we don't believe that's possible?

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I like Daniel, but, I fear we may slip into the form of his first season. I’d that is the case after 10 games, it may be time for a change. 
 

but hopefully, he gets us playing like last season again and we are all happy 

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9 hours ago, Making Plans said:

Why, what's the point?

Only to go through another season like this again in 2 years time?

No thanks, I'd rather we play some really exciting stuff next season in the Championship and finish 7th on goal difference.

 

Football fans, proper ones, not glory hunters live in hope!    In our case we are very fortunate to have a transparent club that tries to bring the fans along with it.

i hope we go down, keep the best players, learn lessons, tweak the playing style, play Buendia in an effective position, offload those that haven’t stepped up, develop the youngsters Including Idah, Famewo, Gilmour and bring in replacements for our central midfield (will probably need to invest there)... then go back up and have another go hoping for fewer injuries.   
In any sport you have to aim to win and do you’re best!     

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16 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Probably not a popular question this, but what sets Daniel Farke apart from the 2015/16 Alex Neil?

Neil did a fantastic job to get us up and was 'the new Messiah'. The best young manager in the country who was destined for the top, and the question was how long we'd be able to keep him for, as it was with Farke last summer.

But in the Premier League, he was given an underprepared squad that included just three centre backs (none of which were new signings) and Mbokani as the only new striker. As a result, he wasn't able to keep us up and was at times criticised for being a bit naive, out-thought by more experienced managers and too loyal to players who weren't performing. Again, it's very similar to Farke.

What gives Farke an advantage however is his ability to develop players. Aarons, Buendia, Cantwell, Lewis and Godfrey have come on leaps and bounds under Farke and are also highly valuable assets. The Murphy twins became first team players under Neil and they were sold for big money, but not on the scale of the players we have now.

Since leaving Norwich, Neil appears to have learnt, and has given interviews in which he admitted his mistakes. He has taken Preston to the edge of the playoffs for the second season in a row, which is outperforming his budget and expectations. He has done extremely well to build and maintain a side that is well organised and operates as a unit that's greater than the sum of its parts.

Hopefully, Farke can eradicate his flaws too. Moving forward, he needs to be able to organise a defence and be more proactive and flexible when things aren't working. If he can learn these things by next season then we should be in the mix to go straight back up, but Neil needed longer than that and it seems he also required a short period out of the game for reflection. 

But Farke has certainly earnt the chance to have a go at taking us back up, assuming he wants to. But if we struggle to do so, as we did under Neil, that's when we need to start seriously talking about whether Farke has run his course with us. I don't think we're at that point yet.

 

Whacky that is a great post and well balanced. We have all been emotional recently about the performances and imo well ott with comments against players and Daniel. We have played great football this season without getting the points and i think the disappointment of the last 2 games have really hurt. 

So your summary is most welcome. 

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16 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

But Farke has certainly earnt the chance to have a go at taking us back up, assuming he wants to. But if we struggle to do so, as we did under Neil, that's when we need to start seriously talking about whether Farke has run his course with us. I don't think we're at that point yet.

It could be short termism to think about changing the manager if everything isn't hunky dory straight away.  I understand the desire and ambition to get straight back up, if we go down, but if you want a long term manager, you are going to get times when things aren't as good as you would like, in the knowledge that you have in your manager a person who always has the ability to put things right.

In that way Farke ought to be manager - imo - for years and years (if he wants to, of course) because that the ideal scenario - a long term manager - if you like it is the Brian Clough syndrome, the Arsene Wenger syndrome, the Alex ferguson syndrome.......the John Bond syndrome..........

The right man in the right job at a club he grows to love and who has it within them to successfully carry on the job for years and years.  That kind of manager stability is rare - and imo, that is what our football club needs to be as successful as we want it to be.

 

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18 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

It could be short termism to think about changing the manager if everything isn't hunky dory straight away.  I understand the desire and ambition to get straight back up, if we go down, but if you want a long term manager, you are going to get times when things aren't as good as you would like, in the knowledge that you have in your manager a person who always has the ability to put things right.

In that way Farke ought to be manager - imo - for years and years (if he wants to, of course) because that the ideal scenario - a long term manager - if you like it is the Brian Clough syndrome, the Arsene Wenger syndrome, the Alex ferguson syndrome.......the John Bond syndrome..........

The right man in the right job at a club he grows to love and who has it within them to successfully carry on the job for years and years.  That kind of manager stability is rare - and imo, that is what our football club needs to be as successful as we want it to be.

 

You seem to have this idea that having a manager/head coach for a long time is, in and of itself, a good thing.

If Farke can't get the team going again next season then we should move on. Keeping him for the sake of stability doesn't make any sense.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, king canary said:

You seem to have this idea that having a manager/head coach for a long time is, in and of itself, a good thing.

If Farke can't get the team going again next season then we should move on. Keeping him for the sake of stability doesn't make any sense.

It is not stability for the sake of stability - if it is the right man, then yes, you stick with him through thick and thin, knowing he will always get things back on track if they go astray. Stability is a byproduct of having the right man in place long term - it's a win win situation. 

Edited by lake district canary

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Empty stadiums will by the attitude and performance of NCFC in the last couple of games against 2 teams with absolutely nothing to play for not help our chances of bouncing back

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15 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

It is not stability for the sake of stability - if it is the right man, then yes, you stick with him through thick and thin, knowing he will always get things back on track if they go astray. Stability is a byproduct of having the right man in place long term - it's a win win situation. 

Well yes. However you always seem to believe whichever manager we have in place at that time is the 'right man.'

At what point does Farke become the wrong man? If we reach 15/20 games into next season and we're midtable then, for me, it isn't unreasonable to suggest he might not be the right man.

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