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Norwich City agree £350,000 deal' for Sunderland youngster Bali Mumba

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15 hours ago, The Bristol Nest said:

Just making the point that you don't rate a player that you don't know anything about like the rest of us.

Where did I state I didn’t rate the player? You appear to have difficulty in comprehending what you read. Clearly he is one for the future otherwise he would have had game time for Sunderland this season.

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The one thing we have to protect and cater for is that if we are in the Championship , with a lot of young players, then that is an unforgiving League for 46 games. The young players will peak and trough throughout a season, so will need a decent amount of experienced players around them . It always sounds dream like to speak about giving the youngsters the freedom to go and 'play' but it certainly has to be balanced in that League.

If we go down (I know) and if we sell a few of our better players (yep, I still know) then we will obviously get a decent wedge and can lay out for good Championship replacements without breaking the bank. If we keep all our players from this season, then happy days........

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9 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

I agree. Rupp gets a bit of stick because its fairly obvious he's not a premier league quality starting player - he was bought I think with next season in mind. But he's tidy enough, technically decent and has a good work rate. I can see him being a useful utility player in the championship.

The fancy Sinani to be a hidden gem but to be honest ones that I'm most interested in are Sitti and Gilmour. The latter has been kept very much under the radar but I believe (aside from some injuries) had a reasonable season in Holland and if he can come through as the kind of athletic holding midfielder who can step into Tettey's shoes if we get up again than that could be very big.

Good shout, forgot about him. I think he has the attributes to be a real classy player, but with a bit of bite and energy. 

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, hogesar said:

Hang on, what?

There's a reason he's consistently one of the primary players talked about by both other clubs and pundits.

There's a reason he's our second highest goalscorer behind only Pukki, despite Cantwell playing a midfield position, during his first ever premier league season.

If his level is 'still championship' then half our players must be league one standard at best.

It would be absolutely huge for us if we were able to hold onto him. 

Just my opinion. I'm sure you probably said the same about the Murphy's too.

He gets into useful advanced positions which can result in goals (still scored very few) and assists (not many of them either). The thing is, my argument has always been that statistically he may look good - but he doesn't impact on the team fantastically well. He gives the ball away a lot, and off the ball, particularly in a defensive manor, he's pretty woeful. Much like Buendia, but Todd isn't on Buendia's technical ability. Cantwell cannot turn a game for us, like an on song Buendia or Vrancic can. 

It was the same for the Murphy's. They could score some brilliant goals, but often the team dynamic didn't seem right when they played. Josh in particular. 

Statistics' overshadow some pretty glaring flaws if you watch and analyse a player closely. 

And as a last point, Todd struggled to get into the team last season. So perhaps he's League One standard? Just because he's starting in the EPL for a bottom placed team, doesn't mean he's EPL standard, in the same way not playing last season didn't mean he wasn't Championship standard. 

Edited by Il Pirata

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4 minutes ago, Il Pirata said:

Just my opinion. I'm sure you probably said the same about the Murphy's too.

He gets into useful advanced positions which can result in goals (still scored very few) and assists (not many of them either). The thing is, my argument has always been that statistically he may look good - but he doesn't impact on the team fantastically well. He gives the ball away a lot, and off the ball, particularly in a defensive manor, he's pretty woeful. Much like Buendia, but Todd isn't on Buendia's technical ability. Cantwell cannot turn a game for us, like an on song Buendia or Vrancic can. 

It was the same for the Murphy's. They could score some brilliant goals, but often the team dynamic didn't seem right when they played. Josh in particular. 

Statistics' overshadow some pretty glaring flaws if you watch and analyse a player closely. 

And as a last point, Todd struggled to get into the team last season. So perhaps he's League One standard? Just because he's starting in the EPL for a bottom placed team, doesn't mean he's EPL standard, in the same way not playing last season didn't mean he wasn't Championship standard. 

The thing is your opinion seems to differ from pretty much every supporter of other clubs when we play them, plus pundits and journalists too. To say he's scored very few - he's scored 6 in his first premier league season from midfield, in a team thats scored 25. Plus 2 assists. So he's directly responsible for practically a third of our goals this season.

As for Murphy's, they don't have half the technical ability that Cantwell has. His work-rate (backed up by his running distances per game) is significantly better than the murphy's.

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The biggest criticism of Buendia and Cantwell this season is the amount of times they give the ball away. However....

they are both extremely young and playing in one of the best leagues around, and have scored/assisted more than majority of our squad put together

We look void of ideas every game without them, and lack much of the creative spark with them. They are learning their trade in an extremely tough league, and have shown far more glimpses of quality this season imo than Murphy's ever did. They also have time to improve.

If we can keep both, or at worst one of them, they should play very big parts for us next season   

 

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6 hours ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

The one thing we have to protect and cater for is that if we are in the Championship , with a lot of young players, then that is an unforgiving League for 46 games. The young players will peak and trough throughout a season, so will need a decent amount of experienced players around them . It always sounds dream like to speak about giving the youngsters the freedom to go and 'play' but it certainly has to be balanced in that League.

If we go down (I know) and if we sell a few of our better players (yep, I still know) then we will obviously get a decent wedge and can lay out for good Championship replacements without breaking the bank. If we keep all our players from this season, then happy days........

They get a lot of loan time in decent leagues, I’m confident they will adapt to the championship

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On 26/06/2020 at 18:54, Il Pirata said:

Just my opinion. I'm sure you probably said the same about the Murphy's too.

He gets into useful advanced positions which can result in goals (still scored very few) and assists (not many of them either). The thing is, my argument has always been that statistically he may look good - but he doesn't impact on the team fantastically well. He gives the ball away a lot, and off the ball, particularly in a defensive manor, he's pretty woeful. Much like Buendia, but Todd isn't on Buendia's technical ability. Cantwell cannot turn a game for us, like an on song Buendia or Vrancic can. 

It was the same for the Murphy's. They could score some brilliant goals, but often the team dynamic didn't seem right when they played. Josh in particular. 

Statistics' overshadow some pretty glaring flaws if you watch and analyse a player closely. 

And as a last point, Todd struggled to get into the team last season. So perhaps he's League One standard? Just because he's starting in the EPL for a bottom placed team, doesn't mean he's EPL standard, in the same way not playing last season didn't mean he wasn't Championship standard. 

Thought Todd was very, very good again today and capped it with a great goal.

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Posted (edited)
On 27/06/2020 at 20:10, hogesar said:

Thought Todd was very, very good again today and capped it with a great goal.

Scored a good goal, keeper could've done better though. 

Very, very good? Not so sure...

Todd gave the ball away on many occasions when in decent positions. His through ball to Pukki was a simple pass which he overhit, and wasted a goal scoring opportunity. Remember the incident with McTominey (sp), the ball he played a couple of seconds before was wildly overhit and stopped a decent 3 on 3 counter attack. On two other occasions,Todd showed his defensive naivety by wildly diving in and giving freekicks away in dangerous positions on the edge of the box. 

Yes Todd scored, but also wasted good opportunities, and put the team under unnecessary pressure. 

My view hasn't changed. He's overrated. Certainly not saying he's poor, but not as good as being made out. He has an easy on the eye appeal, which makes him stand out to short sighted pundits who literally base ability on a highlights reel. 

I don't have a problem with people rating him though, just would appreciate they also recognise other aspects of his game that can negatively affect the team. 

I do think he can improve though. But top EPL player? I predict not. 

Edited by Il Pirata

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3 minutes ago, Il Pirata said:

Scored a good goal, keeper could've done better though. 

Very, very good? Not so sure...

Todd gave the ball away on many occasions when in decent positions. His through ball to Pukki was a simple pass which he overhit, and wasted a goal scoring opportunity. Remember the incident with McTominey (sp), the ball he played a couple of seconds before was wildly overhit and stopped a decent 3 on 3 counter attack. On two other occasions,Todd showed his defensive naivety by wildly diving in and giving freekicks away in dangerous positions on the edge of the box. 

Yes Todd scored, but also wasted good opportunities, and put the team under unnecessary pressure. 

My view hasn't changed. He's overrated. Certainly not saying he's poor, but not as good as being made out. He has an easy on the eye appeal, which makes him stand out to short sighted pundits who literally base ability on a highlights reel. 

I don't have a problem with people rating him though, just would appreciate they also recognise other aspects of his game that can negatively affect the team. 

I do think he can improve though. But top EPL player? I predict not. 

Whether he becomes a top Prem player is debatable but I expect we will be talking a record transfer when he goes.

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I think he'll go on to have a very solid Premier League career. Top 4 maybe not but I don't think that matters.

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53 minutes ago, Il Pirata said:

Scored a good goal, keeper could've done better though. 

Very, very good? Not so sure...

Todd gave the ball away on many occasions when in decent positions. His through ball to Pukki was a simple pass which he overhit, and wasted a goal scoring opportunity. Remember the incident with McTominey (sp), the ball he played a couple of seconds before was wildly overhit and stopped a decent 3 on 3 counter attack. On two other occasions,Todd showed his defensive naivety by wildly diving in and giving freekicks away in dangerous positions on the edge of the box. 

Yes Todd scored, but also wasted good opportunities, and put the team under unnecessary pressure. 

My view hasn't changed. He's overrated. Certainly not saying he's poor, but not as good as being made out. He has an easy on the eye appeal, which makes him stand out to short sighted pundits who literally base ability on a highlights reel. 

I don't have a problem with people rating him though, just would appreciate they also recognise other aspects of his game that can negatively affect the team. 

I do think he can improve though. But top EPL player? I predict not. 

Don't know about top EPL, but it'll be EPL, which will disprove your 'championship standard' comment, in my opinion.

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Glad we have this thread about Bali Mumba to discuss the minutiae of Cantwell's ability

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3 minutes ago, kick it off said:

Glad we have this thread about Bali Mumba to discuss the minutiae of Cantwell's ability

Who is our 2nd highest scorer and I would say our most praised player by pundits this season. He's obviously slept with several posters' wives.

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1 hour ago, Il Pirata said:

Scored a good goal, keeper could've done better though. 

Very, very good? Not so sure...

Todd gave the ball away on many occasions when in decent positions. His through ball to Pukki was a simple pass which he overhit, and wasted a goal scoring opportunity. Remember the incident with McTominey (sp), the ball he played a couple of seconds before was wildly overhit and stopped a decent 3 on 3 counter attack. On two other occasions,Todd showed his defensive naivety by wildly diving in and giving freekicks away in dangerous positions on the edge of the box. 

Yes Todd scored, but also wasted good opportunities, and put the team under unnecessary pressure. 

My view hasn't changed. He's overrated. Certainly not saying he's poor, but not as good as being made out. He has an easy on the eye appeal, which makes him stand out to short sighted pundits who literally base ability on a highlights reel. 

I don't have a problem with people rating him though, just would appreciate they also recognise other aspects of his game that can negatively affect the team. 

I do think he can improve though. But top EPL player? I predict not. 

In the most amiable way possible, I will disagree 100%. I think now, and have thought  for several years, that Todd will be the finest player the club has ever produced. Seriously. His brain works quicker that most players, thought and play are simultaneous, he sees things out there that only the top players see, and his attitude and work ethic is extraordinary. His first season in EPL has surprised many people, but not the many good judges in the club. Those who know, know. All that can hold him back is bad injury or some other unforeseeable mishap.  He missed a whole year of his development, and possible he is a little behind where he should be at 22, but frankly that's incidental. Argue by all means, but come back to this topic in 5 years and we will see. He will have to move away to achieve his full potential, which is depressing, but so be it. There will be good judges watching him who can visualise him in a team of amazing talents, which is where he will end up by the time he is 25 or 26. I would put my house on it. He's still learning, of course he is.

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2 hours ago, Il Pirata said:

Scored a good goal, keeper could've done better though. 

Very, very good? Not so sure...

Todd gave the ball away on many occasions when in decent positions. His through ball to Pukki was a simple pass which he overhit, and wasted a goal scoring opportunity. Remember the incident with McTominey (sp), the ball he played a couple of seconds before was wildly overhit and stopped a decent 3 on 3 counter attack. On two other occasions,Todd showed his defensive naivety by wildly diving in and giving freekicks away in dangerous positions on the edge of the box. 

Yes Todd scored, but also wasted good opportunities, and put the team under unnecessary pressure. 

My view hasn't changed. He's overrated. Certainly not saying he's poor, but not as good as being made out. He has an easy on the eye appeal, which makes him stand out to short sighted pundits who literally base ability on a highlights reel. 

I don't have a problem with people rating him though, just would appreciate they also recognise other aspects of his game that can negatively affect the team. 

I do think he can improve though. But top EPL player? I predict not. 

Cantwell seems to improve by every game. All of our outfield squad have things that can negatively affect the team.

No one has claimed he is or will be a 'top EPL player' that is just you making up something to knock down.

He will move on at some point. Most likely when he feels he can command a first team place regularly.

Until then he is a City player, and one I am pleased we have and am likewise enjoying watching him play, and progress.

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Fair enough, my view on Cantwell clearly isn't shared by the majority. 

What I will say though, is I constantly backed Hoolahan when the majority knocked him, and stated Josh Murphy wouldn't make it at PL level. So I'm sticking with my prediction that Cantwell will not make it as an established EPL player, at any club top, middle or bottom. 

 

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I think Todd is a decent player, will go on to do well, but I think he does flatter to deceive.

Pukki v Arsenal
Vrancic v Spurs (just!)
Idah v Preston

And Todd Cantwell against United are the only goals scored from outside the box by us this season. One of those was massively deflected and another was keeper error, so for a team that plays 3 attacking midfielders most games I think we can all agree that we need to develop a little bit of attacking variety. Furthermore only another 2 of those are headers; not overly surprising stuff, but definitely food for thought for Farke if he does get another crack at the PL.

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My local golf pro is a Sunderland fan. Apparently Sunderland fans are seething that we have bought him. A bargain apparently!

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On 26/06/2020 at 20:09, Dr Greenthumb said:

They get a lot of loan time in decent leagues, I’m confident they will adapt to the championship

I'm also confident they will adapt well, but we need them to be getting promoted. To achieve that, they will have to endure a long hard season at a level they would not have played at, for such a sustained period, against some experienced pros. It is just something to guard against, by complementing this exciting talent with some guys who can (have) handle(d) a 46 game (hopefully) promotion campaign

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On 29/06/2020 at 15:09, Il Pirata said:

Scored a good goal, keeper could've done better though. 

Very, very good? Not so sure...

Todd gave the ball away on many occasions when in decent positions. His through ball to Pukki was a simple pass which he overhit, and wasted a goal scoring opportunity. Remember the incident with McTominey (sp), the ball he played a couple of seconds before was wildly overhit and stopped a decent 3 on 3 counter attack. On two other occasions,Todd showed his defensive naivety by wildly diving in and giving freekicks away in dangerous positions on the edge of the box. 

Yes Todd scored, but also wasted good opportunities, and put the team under unnecessary pressure. 

My view hasn't changed. He's overrated. Certainly not saying he's poor, but not as good as being made out. He has an easy on the eye appeal, which makes him stand out to short sighted pundits who literally base ability on a highlights reel. 

I don't have a problem with people rating him though, just would appreciate they also recognise other aspects of his game that can negatively affect the team. 

I do think he can improve though. But top EPL player? I predict not. 

You are with the silent majority, he is very over rated

i hope we keep out youngsters for at least one more season but if we had to sell one he would be the one for me to go 

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31 minutes ago, Uncle Fred said:

You are with the silent majority, I am very over fed

i hope we fatten up our youngsters for at least one more season but if we had to eat one he would be the one for me to devour. 

Thought so, big love for Todd  Todd there. Good man Freddo.

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