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Cliff the Canary

Don’t blame Farke, don’t blame Webber and don’t blame the players

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On 24/06/2020 at 22:48, Upo said:

Add in physical resilience vs injuries

This is a big point which very few have made. A centre back who is injury prone is almost useless - among ours, only Godfrey is not (and even he had a hernia op). Every successful team has a consistent defensive partnership in it who play in almost every game.

If we could raid a couple of resilient Champs centre backs to add to our squad it would make a huge difference. You have to be ruthless - Klose, Hanley and Zimmermann are just not up to it physically. All good players, but they get hurt too easily and miss too many games.

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As the owners are majority share holders they are going nowhere. You have a simple choice - attend games, spend your money and moan or don’t attend, keep your money and not give a toss what happens.

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18 minutes ago, DraytonBoy said:

It hadn't really occurred to me that Delia could be the reason why investors are put off but it seems plausible. Do you not wonder why no one is interested when even the likes of Bournemouth were seen as attractive to a Russian billionaire?  

You mean the billionaire who lived locally and picked up the club for far, far less than NCFC would cost? 

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1 hour ago, DraytonBoy said:

There are undoubtedly dozens of wealthy individuals/companies that want to invest in football clubs across Europe with the PL seen as the league to buy into because of it's global exposure so you'd think that Norwich would be on the radar with someone even if they go down. Is it not therefore fair to speculate that Delia and co have put the word out that they no intention of selling any time soon?

Maybe it's my cynical view of the world but I think everything is ultimately for sale, it's just a question of the terms. If I had enough money I'm pretty sure I could persuade the current Board of NCFC that I am their ideal owner, and I think any keen purchaser could probably do the same unless they had a string of convictions, shady business dealings or human rights abuses attached to them (though that doesn't worry Newcastle fans).

My view is that such a person hasn't yet tried. They are unquestionably out there, but maybe they're not Norwich fans.

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3 minutes ago, Crafty Canary said:

As the owners are majority share holders they are going nowhere. You have a simple choice - attend games, spend your money and moan or don’t attend, keep your money and not give a toss what happens.

This I think sums up brilliantly the choice we have as fans, I chose the first option 

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On 24/06/2020 at 21:50, Cliff the Canary said:

Thanks Duncan 

A rare militant in the NCFC ranks who won’t stay quiet and speaks his mind in the face of the apathetic masses, who are content to put a blanket over their laps and drink their hot chocolate, regardless of what division NCFC play in!

Oh Duncan be warned, you missed out the ‘G’ in reign! The sleep walkers will be along soon to expose your bad spelling and grammar!🤣😜

He spelled relegation wrong too! 

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20 minutes ago, Badger said:

You mean the billionaire who lived locally and picked up the club for far, far less than NCFC would cost? 

Okay I'll bite, how much do you think the club is worth?

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15 minutes ago, DraytonBoy said:

Okay I'll bite, how much do you think the club is worth?

More than Leeds..

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19 minutes ago, DraytonBoy said:

Okay I'll bite, how much do you think the club is worth?

Well, Denim was reported to have bought a majority stake for £850,000. Whilst valuing football clubs is notoriously difficult, I would have thought that we were worth at least 100 times more than that.

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46 minutes ago, Crafty Canary said:

As the owners are majority share holders they are going nowhere. You have a simple choice - attend games, spend your money and moan or don’t attend, keep your money and not give a toss what happens.

My simple choice is option one.

As this is your simple choice which one is yours Crafty?

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Premier League survival is a gamble and the owners are not the gambling type. Villa spent a shed load and their best player came from their youth setup. I'd much rather continue with a sustainable setup and not watch some £40m wally (Joelinton/Wesley et al) run around mocking my season ticket fee and then disappear to Holland for half the price.

Anyway, what could be more boring than being a fan of a club that are permanently mid table of any division? We'll hopefully always be either fighting for promotion from the champs, or against relegation from the premier league, keeps it interesting. Throw in a decent cup run and that's a proper entertaining season. 

It is for entertainment after all!

 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, hogesar said:

More than Leeds..

A PL Leeds anything up to £200 million given Newcastle is for sale at around £300 million, if they stay in the Championship half that.

Would Norwich really cost more than £200 million to buy after relegation?

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39 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

Maybe it's my cynical view of the world but I think everything is ultimately for sale, it's just a question of the terms. If I had enough money I'm pretty sure I could persuade the current Board of NCFC that I am their ideal owner, and I think any keen purchaser could probably do the same unless they had a string of convictions, shady business dealings or human rights abuses attached to them (though that doesn't worry Newcastle fans).

My view is that such a person hasn't yet tried. They are unquestionably out there, but maybe they're not Norwich fans.

I think a lot of people forget that many potential new owners will be looking to buy a football club, rather than specifically buy Norwich City. 

Abramovic considered buying Spurs for instance but Levy just wanted to sell him a stake so he went for Chelsea instead. 

Shiekh Mansour considering buying Newcastle before he bought Man City.

If you were a potential owner and you made enquiries to two clubs, one of which was enthusiastic and open to discussions and one was saying 'could be interested but it is going to take some persuading' you're probably going to be more likely to focus on option one.

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What about Crafty's quiz! It couldn't be simpler, we just have to pick one out of two options...

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2 hours ago, king canary said:

If you were a potential owner and you made enquiries to two clubs, one of which was enthusiastic and open to discussions and one was saying 'could be interested but it is going to take some persuading' you're probably going to be more likely to focus on option one.

Disagree. If I'm a self-made billionaire I'm more likely going to want the one that the owners dont want to sell - why don't they want to sell, what's different between the club that does and doesn't? Is it better run? Does it have better infrastructure, less debt? 

A typical self-made billionaire isn't put off by being told "Not really for sale" by someone. 

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20 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Disagree. If I'm a self-made billionaire I'm more likely going to want the one that the owners dont want to sell - why don't they want to sell, what's different between the club that does and doesn't? Is it better run? Does it have better infrastructure, less debt? 

A typical self-made billionaire isn't put off by being told "Not really for sale" by someone. 

As, I'm assuming, neither of us fit the description we'll never know I guess.

However I think the Abramovic example is interesting- he spoke to Levy who wanted investment but would only sell a stake rather than the club as a whole so he went elsewhere.

What are the noises coming from the club? Is it we'll take investment for a minority stake? Or is it more open ended? We don't know but I do find it odd that since Cullum there hasn't been even one solid rumour about a potential interested party. Some might think that shows nobody is interested, some might think it shows the noises from the club aren't encouraging to potential suitors. 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Crafty Canary said:

As the owners are majority share holders they are going nowhere. You have a simple choice - attend games, spend your money and moan or don’t attend, keep your money and not give a toss what happens.

I took the second option three years ago and I’m enjoying the club and football for what it is, a bit of fun at the weekend, it doesn’t run my life like some. It might be refreshing to some people to take a step back and stop getting so angry about things they have zero control over.

Edited by Indy
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7 hours ago, Crafty Canary said:

As the owners are majority share holders they are going nowhere. You have a simple choice - attend games, spend your money and moan or don’t attend, keep your money and not give a toss what happens.

Which are you Crafty? A moaner or an ex fan?

Either way, it seems you're no loss. ☂️

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18 hours ago, king canary said:

Hogesar:

Disagree. If I'm a self-made billionaire I'm more likely going to want the one that the owners dont want to sell - why don't they want to sell, what's different between the club that does and doesn't? Is it better run? Does it have better infrastructure, less debt? A typical self-made billionaire isn't put off by being told "Not really for sale" by someone. 

---

As, I'm assuming, neither of us fit the description we'll never know I guess.

However I think the Abramovic example is interesting- he spoke to Levy who wanted investment but would only sell a stake rather than the club as a whole so he went elsewhere.

What are the noises coming from the club? Is it we'll take investment for a minority stake? Or is it more open ended? We don't know but I do find it odd that since Cullum there hasn't been even one solid rumour about a potential interested party. Some might think that shows nobody is interested, some might think it shows the noises from the club aren't encouraging to potential suitors. 

I assume Smith & Jones would happily take minority investment, but I doubt many would want to go down that road. Almost all would want control of the club.

Hoggy is right that no self-respecting tycoon would be put off by S&J not wanting to sell. Indeed, many would see that as a good sign. However it is true that because NCFC is not listed on a stock market that would make it harder to succeed with a hostile bid. if the club was listed  the share price could be manipulated to help the bid. But 'harder" does not mean 'impossible'.

As to what a tycoon would look for, I would say with a club of our size it would be potential. They would certainly want the basics, such as infrastructure and lack of serious debt, to be in place. It could be, for example, that the club is only being held back by bad or inattentive management (a couple of clubs in the north-east currently spring to mind...) and the potential buyer would believe a new team of competent executives would change all that.

 

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22 hours ago, DraytonBoy said:

Would Norwich really cost more than £200 million to buy after relegation?

No.

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22 hours ago, king canary said:

If you were a potential owner and you made enquiries to two clubs, one of which was enthusiastic and open to discussions and one was saying 'could be interested but it is going to take some persuading' you're probably going to be more likely to focus on option one.

Not sure that this is the case. Obviously finding a "distressed seller" is the ideal (from a purchasing point of view) but long term potential would imo be far more important than how enthusiastic the seller is. Using your example, it is unlikely that Mansour would have had any difficulty in buying Newcastle if he had wanted it: Shepherd wanted out and Ashley is always open to a deal.

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Posted (edited)

Interesting take on a couple of posts.................so if Delia does not want to sell and Nephew Tom is lined up as the heir apparent it will still not put off any interested parties with a wad of money ?

Edited by TIL 1010

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19 hours ago, king canary said:

We don't know but I do find it odd that since Cullum there hasn't been even one solid rumour about a potential interested party. Some might think that shows nobody is interested, some might think it shows the noises from the club aren't encouraging to potential suitors. 

I'm sure that some definitely will think this - it does not mean that there is a lot of justification in it. If you have an investor rather than a fan buying a football club they are going to want the "best deal" so that they can maximise their profit and revenue from buying a club.

You are far more likely to get a "good deal" if you buy from someone that has to sell: this is often from an owner who "has "done his/her money  chasing the dream." If I were looking to buy a football club for financial reasons, I wouldn't be looking at clubs who were reasonably solvent, I'd be watching those in or close to administration, particularly if they owned their own ground. (Of course, many owners have wised up to this and have the ground in a separate company, so that they can sell the club or go into administration but still earn from or sell the ground.)

I'd also look at other issues, like population/ local infrastructure etc. 

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1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

I assume Smith & Jones would happily take minority investment, but I doubt many would want to go down that road. Almost all would want control of the club.

Hoggy is right that no self-respecting tycoon would be put off by S&J not wanting to sell. Indeed, many would see that as a good sign. However it is true that because NCFC is not listed on a stock market that would make it harder to succeed with a hostile bid. if the club was listed  the share price could be manipulated to help the bid. But 'harder" does not mean 'impossible'.

As to what a tycoon would look for, I would say with a club of our size it would be potential. They would certainly want the basics, such as infrastructure and lack of serious debt, to be in place. It could be, for example, that the club is only being held back by bad or inattentive management (a couple of clubs in the north-east currently spring to mind...) and the potential buyer would believe a new team of competent executives would change all that.

 

Yeah, worded better than me.

Your comment in regards to potential is important. Is a club our size with our fanbase ever likely to be anything more than middling Premiership?

If that's the case, then where is the investment interest? Once you've purchased the club and spent the amount required to get there, assuming you do (always the risk money is badly spent and it doesnt happen) - how much has the new owner spent? How much is the wage bill just to hopefully stay in the prem? Is there actually room for them to make money on their investment that's worth the associated risks?

I think the answer is no. Which then means we're only looking at those with an emotional interest in NCFC but who have significantly more money than our current owners. Are there any out there?

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13 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Interesting take on a couple of posts.................so if Delia does not want to sell and Nephew Tom is lined up as the heir apparent it will still not put off any interested parties ?

If they're seriously interested then doubt it.

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32 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Interesting take on a couple of posts.................so if Delia does not want to sell and Nephew Tom is lined up as the heir apparent it will still not put off any interested parties with a wad of money ?

Would you be put off? Would you just cower away rather than persevere? 

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4 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Would you be put off? Would you just cower away rather than persevere? 

Would she even entertain talking to interested parties ?

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1 minute ago, TIL 1010 said:

Would she even entertain talking to interested parties ?

Would you be put off? Would you just cower away rather than persevere?

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8 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Would you be put off? Would you just cower away rather than persevere?

Would she even entertain talking to interested parties ?

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