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Cliff the Canary

Don’t blame Farke, don’t blame Webber and don’t blame the players

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2 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

I think the problem is that your argument is tired and ineffective. We’ve heard it a thousand times before, and whether individuals agree with you or not, complaining that Delia is not Bill Gates (who actually is spending a huge amount of money in a far more laudable way) is not going to change anything.

I agree, it is tired and ineffective but are you suggesting no one should ever challenge the status quo?

Should those that disagree just be quiet and disappear? 

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2 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

There is a large (but perhaps diminishing) section of our fan base who are blinded by the cult im afraid. The owners have won, many would simply just prefer to be in the championship now. 

Actually, I do think there is a lot of blind loyalty to Delia and Michael, but equally I see they have, on the whole, been much more positive for the club than negative.

That said, what I think is probably more relevant, is that with the best will in the world, and with absolutely no disrespect intended, there has to be a succession plan in place for the imminent future given that both majority shareholders are now heading into their eighties. Regardless of your opinion of what they have achieved, this is something that is going to have to happen sooner rather than later.

Therefore, it is all well and good to suggest they are holding the club back, but are there genuinely backers with at least as deep pockets who are actually willing to take the club forward as a long-term project?

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4 minutes ago, Cliff the Canary said:

I agree, it is tired and ineffective but are you suggesting no one should ever challenge the status quo?

Should those that disagree just be quiet and disappear? 

No, I guess not, and maybe I should have stopped reading, but I am a bit bored of seeing the same thing over and over.

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Can't fault them for placing their bet on Champs winning squad. Can fault them for not taking into account the way champs was won, in particular the vulnerability of the defense. The main critical error was to have too few CBs and doubling down on the approach early this year. You'd think 4  CBs was enough, but not when there were history of injuries, and some questions whether the quality of all the team's CBs was up to standards of PL.

I'm convinced it is the central back that is the most important position in the team. Not only because they form the backbone from which every offensive derives its strength, but because the requirements are so specific compared to other positions beyond GK. You need size, speed, good game IQ and exceptional judgment. Those rarely come in one package. Add in physical resilience vs injuries and you can be sure you'll be spending a lot of time to find a substitute mid season with the kind of budget we have.

Come next season in the Champs, we lack CBs. Injury problems tend to become worse over time, not better. We may need 6 CBs. Big ones. The kind the opposition fears outside penalty area and respects inside. That way the technical fullbacks can focus on their job which is to take the ball up.

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Fulham spent £100m. And got relegated. Aston Villa spent £140m. And will probably get relegated. If we spent £30m we'd probably........still get relegated, in my view. I get the point about the money and it would be fantastic to have wealthy owners to splash the cash in perpetuity. The nearest comparison I can see to what is being sought is with Middlesbro who also have a lifeliong fan in charge but who does have deep pockets. They got a few years of mid table mediocrity and are now in a fight to avoid L1.

I don't think anybody is pleased that we are going down, but I would rather have someone who does seem to genuinely care for the club than any number of the dangerous numpties who have taken over elsewhere. Its not about being complacent, if we could find the perfect owner then great bring it on. But I am not sure they exist and what we have is not that bad. The results may not have been great, but at least I am proud of my club as one seeking to do things the right way, not arrogant and with a great comunity and family spirit rather than embarrassed of it. These things are not to be taken lightly.

 

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25 minutes ago, Cliff the Canary said:
51 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

The proverbial sack the owners thread to go alongside the sack the manager thread.  Oh the joys of supporting a football club....blame, blame, blame, waah, waah, waah!!!!!!!!!  

 

As apposed to your deluded posts of positivity! Which of us is more realistic of the club’s fortunes LDC? 

But then I'm happy in my positivity, especially when we do as well as last season - and earlier in that season when I was happy in my positivity when people were calling for the manager to be sacked, DS to go etc etc......and happy to be positive about our chances this season - and to be positive about still winning a couple of matches and making it interesting this season. 

I'm happy to be positive about our chances every single match, whoever the manager is. Sometimes we win, sometimes we lose, sometimes we get promoted, somtimes we get relegated, but I'd rather be happy in my positivity about our chances than miserable about our chances.  

I'm even happy that I was nervous about us getting over the line last season (interpreted as me being negative of course), because I believe that ultimately, anything can happen in football, good or bad...but on balance the best way to be is to be positive, because more can come from positivity than negativity. 

If the club was genuinely in trouble, financially and/or on the pitch (I do not class us as being in trouble atm, when we no debts, a great young squad and a dynamic and progressive management) then yes, I might be calling for resignations/sackings, but we are not. We have a plan, we have a good system in place, a squad worth millions instead of the peanuts that we paid to get them, etc etc. 

We may well get relegated - we may yet see twists and turns and I hope that is so, but I try not to play the blame game, because as we know, there is a bigger picture - and throwing away anyone, from the tea lady to the owner, would be like throwing away the baby with the bath water.  We need DF, we need Webber, we need loyal and stable ownership.  We've got all three and should be grateful for that.  No-one is happy with being bottom of the league, but if you or anyone else could find a spark of positivity perhaps about the next game, or the game after, you might be surprised how your views change. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Tumbleweed said:

Fulham spent £100m. And got relegated. Aston Villa spent £140m. And will probably get relegated. If we spent £30m we'd probably........still get relegated, in my view. I get the point about the money and it would be fantastic to have wealthy owners to splash the cash in perpetuity. The nearest comparison I can see to what is being sought is with Middlesbro who also have a lifeliong fan in charge but who does have deep pockets. They got a few years of mid table mediocrity and are now in a fight to avoid L1.

I don't think anybody is pleased that we are going down, but I would rather have someone who does seem to genuinely care for the club than any number of the dangerous numpties who have taken over elsewhere. Its not about being complacent, if we could find the perfect owner then great bring it on. But I am not sure they exist and what we have is not that bad. The results may not have been great, but at least I am proud of my club as one seeking to do things the right way, not arrogant and with a great comunity and family spirit rather than embarrassed of it. These things are not to be taken lightly.

 

Very well said, we need to look beyond this season, as I posted yesterday w have an abundance of young talent, something we’ve not had in years, we have a decent bank balance meaning we sell for the right price not to cover costs. We re-set and go again next year with changes no doubt, we will lose a few good players and we will no doubt see a few new players in too. Bring on Man U in the cup and bring on the championship next year. This is what football is all about.

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52 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Sorry fella but Duncan wasn't even subtle.

 

42 minutes ago, Cliff the Canary said:

Well if Duncan went to all that effort in his lengthy post to mock me, then on reading it, he was so subtle I didn’t see the mocking tone!

 I guess without tone or expression it’s hard to understand a posters true intentions?

 I don’t post regularly enough to know peoples real agendas, but I’ve read enough to know you Hogesar, are totally satisfied with the club’s current fortunes!

Sorry mate but you’ve been done up like a kipper. You aren’t the first and you won’t be the last.

Duncan’s a legend

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It's all very well blaming Delia and co but where are the billionaires clamouring to buy Norwich and invest tens of millions? 

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18 hours ago, lake district canary said:

The proverbial sack the owners thread to go alongside the sack the manager thread.  Oh the joys of supporting a football club....blame, blame, blame, waah, waah, waah!!!!!!!!!  

 

Blame or accountability?

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Little old Norwich.

Welcome back you old friend.  

Football in England has always been dominated by the urban centres, traditional working class heartlands; and even in our post industrial society this remains the case. London, West/Midlands, Manchester, Yorkshire, Merseyside, Tyne & Wear. These are the areas that make up the Premiership top half (and some of the bottom half, Villa, West Ham), with the occasional over achiever thrown in (Burnley, the old Mill Town), and a Leicester tapping on door (courtesy of global capital). Other larger towns and cities then scramble for the other places, Brighton, B'mouth, Soton, etc.

Norwich being neither big, nor industrial in the traditional sense of heavy industry, is a medium sized provincial city. In terms of league position the team has over achieved. We have no right or entitlement to be any highier than comparible centres; Coventry, Oxford, Portsmouth, P'boro, Southend, Swindon, N'ton, Bradford, Newport, York etc etc.

As for Pitchforks, we don't get much use for them in Hackney!    

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11 hours ago, DraytonBoy said:

It's all very well blaming Delia and co but where are the billionaires clamouring to buy Norwich and invest tens of millions? 

They dont exist. But apparently that's because self made billionaires wouldn't have it in them to consider buying anything unless it had a massive 'for sale all offers greatly appreciated' board outside of it.

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34 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Apologies to Midlands Yellow...

I should do most of the apologies on here for my posts. 

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We can agree to disagree but for me, I have spent my last money on this club and am sick of the in-fighting every time someone voices their opinion.

I will not miss that, I will miss the friends I have made over the years, whilst it lasted.

Now, I cannot be bothered to tune-in even though the matches are free-to-view. I can predict the outcome from backing them at the bookies, before the start, to do what that Scouse vermin have done not 30 miles away. Yeah, it may have been blind ambition but that has been drained from me, suffering as the team got found-out week-in week-out, like all life has diminished.

I get told they've lost again, that's enough. Not going to waste anymore of my life on this shower. I don't need an excuse anymore, I just want it to be over.

Norwich have become one of the cook's recipes, prepared from the cheapest ingredients. I have never liked the woman, tried to buy into 1p5hit before us; Shame it didn't happen. I didn't like Lambert either. I refuse to brown-nose and follow the rest of the sheep.

I don't like this club anymore.

You will always be little-old Norwich that I have given 45 years of my life to.

Type what you must. This is a one-time post.

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9 hours ago, hogesar said:

They dont exist. But apparently that's because self made billionaires wouldn't have it in them to consider buying anything unless it had a massive 'for sale all offers greatly appreciated' board outside of it.

Ashley has put Newcastle up for sale for £350m, has had several bids nearly come off, one about to which will make them the richest club in the country and American buyers in the background waiting in case the Saudi deal falls through.

Before you say it yes I know Newcastle are a bigger club than us and yes probably have more potential (although geographically no better) but by the same token we would (or certainly should) have been available for a lot, lot less than £350m.

People don't generally try and buy things they know are not available.  But do you seriously think that if she put the club on the market we would get no interest/offers? Perhaps at the moment there would be less than a year ago but even so...….

"the supporters will be very disappointed to hear that. But no way will we sell. We don’t even listen to any enquiries,” she said. “Our nephew, Tom, is now a board director. He’s 35. He’s a very good board director. He’s a very passionate Norwich City supporter and he will be the recipient of our shares.”

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Jim Smith said:

Ashley has put Newcastle up for sale for £350m, has had several bids nearly come off, one about to which will make them the richest club in the country and American buyers in the background waiting in case the Saudi deal falls through.

Of course, if you have absolutely no morals or care for a club, you can sell it to just anyone and not worry about the consequences. That's fine if you're Mike Ashley and don't actually give a f*ck what happens to the future of Newcastle.

Also, As you rightly stipulate, Newcastle is a very different club to Norwich for obvious reasons. 

Unless we are in trouble we should never, ever publically shove the club up for sale. How much harder does it make it to sign staff, players etc when no-one knows who's going to take over the club?

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18 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Of course, if you have absolutely no morals or care for a club, you can sell it to just anyone and not worry about the consequences. That's fine if you're Mike Ashley and don't actually give a f*ck what happens to the future of Newcastle.

Also, As you rightly stipulate, Newcastle is a very different club to Norwich for obvious reasons. 

Unless we are in trouble we should never, ever publically shove the club up for sale. How much harder does it make it to sign staff, players etc when no-one knows who's going to take over the club?

Or you can impose an almost impossible set of criteria on any potential buyer under the veil of "caring" for a club that you know make it almost impossible for a buyer to meet them.

Do you think Man City's owners "cared" for the club before they bought it, or Leicesters?  They do now and they do just as much if not more in their communities as we do as a club. Were the Chinese owners who bought Wolves massive Wolves fans?

Probably the only premier league owner who would meet our owner's criteria for a new owner is Tony Bloom at Brighton, possibly the Spurs owner as well. 

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45 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Or you can impose an almost impossible set of criteria on any potential buyer under the veil of "caring" for a club that you know make it almost impossible for a buyer to meet them.

Why is it 'under the veil of caring' as opposed to just caring?

Baring in mind they could have walked off several times over (if your belief about buyers just sitting their waiting for a for sale sign) having made a ridiculous return on their investment meaning their family could live an incredibly wealthy lifestyle. 

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3 hours ago, Foxtrot955 said:

We can agree to disagree but for me, I have spent my last money on this club and am sick of the in-fighting every time someone voices their opinion.

I will not miss that, I will miss the friends I have made over the years, whilst it lasted.

Now, I cannot be bothered to tune-in even though the matches are free-to-view. I can predict the outcome from backing them at the bookies, before the start, to do what that Scouse vermin have done not 30 miles away. Yeah, it may have been blind ambition but that has been drained from me, suffering as the team got found-out week-in week-out, like all life has diminished.

I get told they've lost again, that's enough. Not going to waste anymore of my life on this shower. I don't need an excuse anymore, I just want it to be over.

Norwich have become one of the cook's recipes, prepared from the cheapest ingredients. I have never liked the woman, tried to buy into 1p5hit before us; Shame it didn't happen. I didn't like Lambert either. I refuse to brown-nose and follow the rest of the sheep.

I don't like this club anymore.

You will always be little-old Norwich that I have given 45 years of my life to.

Type what you must. This is a one-time post.

And you were doing so well; lost it there though. 3/10 - Good Try.

 

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4 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Why is it 'under the veil of caring' as opposed to just caring?

Baring in mind they could have walked off several times over (if your belief about buyers just sitting their waiting for a for sale sign) having made a ridiculous return on their investment meaning their family could live an incredibly wealthy lifestyle. 

I'm not saying they don't care for the club, they clearly do. We all do.

But they also in my view have imposed impossible to meet criteria on any new owner which is just accepted on the basis that they "care" for the club. You could argue that if you really "care" for something then sometimes you have to hand it over to someone better placed to take it forward and make it successful at the top level.

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2 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I'm not saying they don't care for the club, they clearly do. We all do.

But they also in my view have imposed impossible to meet criteria on any new owner which is just accepted on the basis that they "care" for the club. You could argue that if you really "care" for something then sometimes you have to hand it over to someone better placed to take it forward and make it successful at the top level.

Jim, what are these 'impossible criteria'? Any chance of a list? As it happens I think we can be specific as far as one criterion goes. Since FFP came in Norwich City have never broken those rules. It is a more than fair assumption that is as much as anything because Smitha and Jones would be against breaking that rule, or indeed any ethics rule.

My understanding, for example, is that they were aghast at the tapping up of Lambert et al from Colchester and the subsequent fine, which I believe was the first time in its history the club had been found guilty of breaking an ethics rule.

So the simple question is, if a pledge not to break FFP is one of S&J's deal-breaking criteria then are you in favour of their stance or would you accept an owner who was willing to break FFP?

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11 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I'm not saying they don't care for the club, they clearly do. We all do.

But they also in my view have imposed impossible to meet criteria on any new owner which is just accepted on the basis that they "care" for the club. You could argue that if you really "care" for something then sometimes you have to hand it over to someone better placed to take it forward and make it successful at the top level.

But thats entirely subjective and down to opinion. Some think anyone with tons of cash is suitable. Somethink anyone other than Delia is suitable. Some think it would be very hard to find someone better placed, considering the success we've had without money compared to alot of clubs who have had money. 

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There are undoubtedly dozens of wealthy individuals/companies that want to invest in football clubs across Europe with the PL seen as the league to buy into because of it's global exposure so you'd think that Norwich would be on the radar with someone even if they go down. Is it not therefore fair to speculate that Delia and co have put the word out that they no intention of selling any time soon?

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12 minutes ago, DraytonBoy said:

There are undoubtedly dozens of wealthy individuals/companies that want to invest in football clubs across Europe with the PL seen as the league to buy into because of it's global exposure so you'd think that Norwich would be on the radar with someone even if they go down. Is it not therefore fair to speculate that Delia and co have put the word out that they no intention of selling any time soon?

You've changed your tune from....well...22 hours ago.

 

Quote

It's all very well blaming Delia and co but where are the billionaires clamouring to buy Norwich and invest tens of millions? 

 

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56 minutes ago, hogesar said:

You've changed your tune from....well...22 hours ago.

 

 

It hadn't really occurred to me that Delia could be the reason why investors are put off but it seems plausible. Do you not wonder why no one is interested when even the likes of Bournemouth were seen as attractive to a Russian billionaire?  

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