Positive.......have we ever had so many under 23 player with so much potential?

[BroadstairsR 2,135]

When Neil Adams was put in charge of loanees many of us scoffed, thinking it a bit of a sinecure. A role created for a long standing and trusted employee of the club.

I'll bet he earns his corn now and (with his successes in the past with our youngsters) he seems the ideal man for what is turning out to be quite an important role as he has to keep tags on more and more of them.

[curious yellow 184]

50 minutes ago, king canary said:

I think some people are getting a touch carrier away with Sinani- he's making the step up from one of the weakest leagues in Europe by all accounts.

Evidently we beat a few top European clubs for his signature. 

He reminds me of Patrick Roberts, most of his goals are cutting in from the right onto his left foot,hardly ever uses his right foot. This might be difficult in this country, nerds to vary his game. 

[Rich T The Biscuit 562]

28 minutes ago, king canary said:

Buendia had La Liga experience and was playing regularly in the Spanish second tier- a far higher level than the Luxembourg league.

Yes but point being he was an unknown and was playing in the second tier when we picked him up.

The fact that Sinani has had other offers from clubs like Real Mallorca (apparently) suggests that there is something there and its anyone guess as to whether he will prove to be an Emi or VOO 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,775]

35 minutes ago, pete said:

 Would suggest most of these signings are cannon fodder and will not make it to the first team and never be heard of.

I know it sounds horribly negative, but I agree with this, aside from the somewhat harsh 'cannon fodder' comment. The vast majority of U18/U23 players, certainly in this country, fail to make the grade at their respective clubs. If three or four become first team players, that's an excellent strike rate.

 

43 minutes ago, Indy said:

I think the same was said about Hernandez and Pukki?

You cannot compare the German second tier and the Danish top flight to Luxembourg. It's like comparing Championship/League One level to the National League North/South (as a rough guess).

 

16 minutes ago, Indy said:

If you think so King.......all of them never heard off by any of us, until they made the impact they did.

Surely several on here would've heard of Pukki. He spent a season at Celtic and was the star player for the Finnish national team.

 

7 minutes ago, Indy said:

I don’t think so, it depends on how good the player is! Would you have said the same of Nedved or Rosicky from the Czech league? 

Again, you can't compare the Czech league to that of Luxembourg. Lots of world class players have come through the system in the Czech Republic, but I can't name any top player who has played in Luxembourg.

I'm not writing Sinani off by any means, but there's no doubt that signing a 23-year-old from a nation that doesn't even have a professional league and most of the players work second jobs is just a cheap, low-risk gamble. The Cody McDonald comparison was pretty accurate, in my opinion.

[sonyc 5,481]

2 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

I posted a list on another thread, although I have no idea whether any will really make the grade. One I would hope does is Mair, the goalkeeper, because we are going to need one such soonish:

Daniel Adshead (aged 18)

Archie Mair (19)

Charlie Gilmour (21)

Aidan Fitzpatrick (19)

Melvin Sitti (20)

Sam McCallum (19)

Rocky Bushiri (20)

Adam Idah (19)

Josh Martin (18)

Daniel Sinani (23)

 

 

And you forgot Jonathan Tompkinson Purple!

He of the Michael Palin book of stories...😉

[king canary 7,559]

22 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Again, you can't compare the Czech league to that of Luxembourg. Lots of world class players have come through the system in the Czech Republic, but I can't name any top player who has played in Luxembourg.

I'm not writing Sinani off by any means, but there's no doubt that signing a 23-year-old from a nation that doesn't even have a professional league and most of the players work second jobs is just a cheap, low-risk gamble. The Cody McDonald comparison was pretty accurate, in my opinion.

Exactly. Nedved and Rosicky both played at Sparta who were also regulars in the Champions League at the time.

I think people are totally underestimating the weakness of the league. The fact he's scored in UEFA Cup qualifying rounds against bigger teams helps his cause though.

 

[king canary 7,559]

29 minutes ago, Rich T The Biscuit said:

Yes but point being he was an unknown and was playing in the second tier when we picked him up.

The fact that Sinani has had other offers from clubs like Real Mallorca (apparently) suggests that there is something there and its anyone guess as to whether he will prove to be an Emi or VOO 

I totally agree there may be something there- I'm just not getting my hopes up that he does a great deal here.

I still think the Buendia point is well off the mark though- someone who has shown they can do it in the Spanish second tier is a much more qualified risk than someone from the Luxembourg leagues.

[Indy 3,283]

33 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

I know it sounds horribly negative, but I agree with this, aside from the somewhat harsh 'cannon fodder' comment. The vast majority of U18/U23 players, certainly in this country, fail to make the grade at their respective clubs. If three or four become first team players, that's an excellent strike rate.

 

You cannot compare the German second tier and the Danish top flight to Luxembourg. It's like comparing Championship/League One level to the National League North/South (as a rough guess).

 

Surely several on here would've heard of Pukki. He spent a season at Celtic and was the star player for the Finnish national team.

 

Again, you can't compare the Czech league to that of Luxembourg. Lots of world class players have come through the system in the Czech Republic, but I can't name any top player who has played in Luxembourg.

I'm not writing Sinani off by any means, but there's no doubt that signing a 23-year-old from a nation that doesn't even have a professional league and most of the players work second jobs is just a cheap, low-risk gamble. The Cody McDonald comparison was pretty accurate, in my opinion.

The Czech league of 1994 wasn’t very good, off the back of 89 wasn’t funded and probably on par to Luxembourg now. I’ve watched enough games in the old gambrenus league with the average stadium we’re about 4 to 6 thousand capacity. Believe me no one has heard of Berger, Paborski, Kolkata, Smicer prior to 1996. It’s not about the league it’s about the player, he’s still very young in his development. So yes it’s very much comparable.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,775]

3 minutes ago, Indy said:

The Czech league of 1994 wasn’t very good, off the back of 89 wasn’t funded and probably on par to Luxembourg now. I’ve watched enough games in the old gambrenus league with the average stadium we’re about 4 to 6 thousand capacity. Believe me no one has heard of Berger, Paborski, Kolkata, Smicer prior to 1996. It’s not about the league it’s about the player, he’s still very young in his development. So yes it’s very much comparable.

The Czech league couldn't have been that bad in the 90s- Sparta Prague reached the semi-final of the European Cup in 1992 and Slavia Prague got to the UEFA Cup semi-final in 1996 back when it meant something. The best a side from Luxembourg has ever done is reach the Europa League group stages, where they managed a total of one point.

I don't think anyone outside of mid-ranking countries such as the Czech Republic would've heard of their players at the time, but the league had a host of players in the 90s who went on to play at the top level such as Nedved, Rosicky, Jankulovski and Koller in addition to Berger, Poborsky and Smicer who you mentioned. If Luxembourg produce a generation like that (from a semi-pro league) any time soon, I'll happily admit that I'm wrong, but until then the two leagues are not comparable.

[Indy 3,283]

32 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

The Czech league couldn't have been that bad in the 90s- Sparta Prague reached the semi-final of the European Cup in 1992 and Slavia Prague got to the UEFA Cup semi-final in 1996 back when it meant something. The best a side from Luxembourg has ever done is reach the Europa League group stages, where they managed a total of one point.

I don't think anyone outside of mid-ranking countries such as the Czech Republic would've heard of their players at the time, but the league had a host of players in the 90s who went on to play at the top level such as Nedved, Rosicky, Jankulovski and Koller in addition to Berger, Poborsky and Smicer who you mentioned. If Luxembourg produce a generation like that (from a semi-pro league) any time soon, I'll happily admit that I'm wrong, but until then the two leagues are not comparable.

Trust me bar 6 teams in that time the Czech league was very poor. Most were made up of small town teams, very poor and not very good. I’ve spent enough time there watching that league to at the time to know. 
As I said, it’s not about the quality of league but the players aptitude to grow in his development. Some of the best youngsters used come out of the Crew academy many moons ago, year in year out, not so much about that clubs stature but how youngsters are developed and trained.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,775]

2 minutes ago, Indy said:

Trust me bar 6 teams in that time the Czech league was very poor. Most were made up of small town teams, very poor and not very good. I’ve spent enough time there watching that league to at the time to know. 
As I said, it’s not about the quality of league but the players aptitude to grow in his development. Some of the best youngsters used come out of the Crew academy many moons ago, year in year out, not so much about that clubs stature but how youngsters are developed and trained.

I'll bow to your superior knowledge that there were many weak teams as I clearly can't comment on that, but there must have been something decent at the top end for two different sides to reach European semi-finals in that era. To say that the league at the time is comparable to current Luxembourg National seems peculiar, as I can't see Dudelange or Fola Esch doing that any time soon.

Also, these players in Luxembourg can be as hungry as they like, but the step up to Europe's top leagues is far too big for them to make a serious impact, in my opinion. 

[Indy 3,283]

18 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

I'll bow to your superior knowledge that there were many weak teams as I clearly can't comment on that, but there must have been something decent at the top end for two different sides to reach European semi-finals in that era. To say that the league at the time is comparable to current Luxembourg National seems peculiar, as I can't see Dudelange or Fola Esch doing that any time soon.

Also, these players in Luxembourg can be as hungry as they like, but the step up to Europe's top leagues is far too big for them to make a serious impact, in my opinion. 

But that’s doing a disservice to the player, and our scouting staff! Just to respond how about Iceland, do you feel the same about Icelandic players or Norwegian players as their leagues are far weaker than Spain or German second leagues?
 

Added hasn’t this lad played quite a lot of European matches in both cups scoring a few?

As I said I don’t believe league has anything to do with it! It’s the player you are buying not his league! 
I’m pretty sure our scouts and other clubs are a little more open minded than some you guys on here or these little gems would never be found! 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Indy

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,775]

1 minute ago, Indy said:

But that’s doing a disservice to the player, and our scouting staff! Just to respond how about Iceland, do you feel the same about Icelandic players or Norwegian players as their leagues are far weaker than Spain or German second leagues?

As I said I don’t believe league has anything to do with it! It’s the player you are buying not his league! 

Norwegian, no. There are some decent sides in it who compete regularly in Europe. Several players have started out in Norway and gone on to play at the highest level.

Icelandic, yes. It's a semi-pro league which has never had a team progress beyond the qualifying rounds of a European competition and any Icelandic player with the potential to make it as professional leaves when they're 16 or 17.

I understand that you're buying the player not the league, but to go from playing semi-pro football in a league such as Luxembourg to even Championship level is a massive, massive jump. Even if Sinani does make it eventually, it will take at least a season to adapt.

[Indy 3,283]

8 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Norwegian, no. There are some decent sides in it who compete regularly in Europe. Several players have started out in Norway and gone on to play at the highest level.

Icelandic, yes. It's a semi-pro league which has never had a team progress beyond the qualifying rounds of a European competition and any Icelandic player with the potential to make it as professional leaves when they're 16 or 17.

I understand that you're buying the player not the league, but to go from playing semi-pro football in a league such as Luxembourg to even Championship level is a massive, massive jump. Even if Sinani does make it eventually, it will take at least a season to adapt.

Norway has again four top flight teams the rest made up of town teams with small capacity. My argument exactly. Small countries don’t have big leagues, but you can’t write off a player because he’s not played second division Spanish football.

As I said Sinani has played in both European cups scoring a few, does that not stand for something if you want to gauge leagues played in! Your and King criteria!?

Well we obviously see it totally differently, I don’t measure a Young players ability by what league more about attitude, potential to grow in a better environment and coaching and most important attitude to succeed. Not just to turn up to be paid.

Also my original point we’ve never had so many youngsters with som much potential to go on to make us a very strong team.

Edited June 23, 2020 by Indy

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,775]

5 minutes ago, Indy said:

Norway has again four top flight teams the rest made up of town teams with small capacity. My argument exactly. Small countries don’t have big leagues, but you can’t write off a player because he’s not played second division Spanish football.

As I said Sinani has played in both European cups scoring a few, does that not stand for something if you want to gauge leagues played in! Your and King criteria!?

Well we obviously see it totally differently, I don’t measure a Young players ability by what league more about attitude, potential to grow in a better environment and coaching and most important attitude to succeed. Not just to turn up to be paid.

You're correct when you say that countries such as Norway and the Czech Republic have a few decent teams and not much else, but there's still enough quality at the top end for the players to get meaningful experience both domestically and in Europe.

Despite playing in the Europa League for two seasons, and doing pretty well individually to be fair, I'm far from convinced that he's got enough experience to hit the ground running in the Championship. I really hope I'm wrong, but I think expectations are being raised a bit too high if we're expecting him to make an impact next season.

[Mason 47 1,371]

2 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

You're correct when you say that countries such as Norway and the Czech Republic have a few decent teams and not much else, but there's still enough quality at the top end for the players to get meaningful experience both domestically and in Europe.

Despite playing in the Europa League for two seasons, and doing pretty well individually to be fair, I'm far from convinced that he's got enough experience to hit the ground running in the Championship. I really hope I'm wrong, but I think expectations are being raised a bit too high if we're expecting him to make an impact next season.

If you (very loosely) assume that he will fill some or all of the role Srbeny played in our Championship squad, it isn't that far from sensible to think Sinani might be up to 1 league goal + assist and be a nuisance in the cup competitions.

That is, IMO, not an unfair expectation for him.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,775]

Just now, Mason 47 said:

If you (very loosely) assume that he will fill some or all of the role Srbeny played in our Championship squad, it isn't that far from sensible to think Sinani might be up to 1 league goal + assist and be a nuisance in the cup competitions.

That is, IMO, not an unfair expectation for him.

That's pretty much where he is right now, in my opinion. 

It just appears that there may be some who are expecting him to be a genuine first team player next season, even taking over from Buendia, which is far too premature.

[Indy 3,283]

30 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

That's pretty much where he is right now, in my opinion. 

It just appears that there may be some who are expecting him to be a genuine first team player next season, even taking over from Buendia, which is far too premature.

Not really, unlike others I don’t think he’s as poor as Sberny and comes from a winning mentality, his potential is high, he’s experienced high level games and is an international. I’m expecting him to be at Hernandez level to be fair.

Not one of us expected Buendia to be as good as he’s been, but I fully expect once we’re relegated him to be gone so as I said we have a ready made winger already in the squad, the same can be said of Aarons.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,775]

17 minutes ago, Indy said:

Not really, unlike others I don’t think he’s as poor as Sberny and comes from a winning mentality, his potential is high, he’s experienced high level games and is an international. I’m expecting him to be at Hernandez level to be fair.

Not one of us expected Buendia to be as good as he’s been, but I fully expect once we’re relegated him to be gone so as I said we have a ready made winger already in the squad, the same can be said of Aarons.

Srbeny had a very good goalscoring record in a higher standard of league than Sinani. Admittedly Sinani's goals-per-game this season is better than Srbeny's in the season we bought him, but the standard is lower.

He may grow to be more Hernandez in time, but for next season I'd say he's more Srbeny.

[king canary 7,559]

28 minutes ago, Indy said:

Not really, unlike others I don’t think he’s as poor as Sberny and comes from a winning mentality, his potential is high, he’s experienced high level games and is an international. I’m expecting him to be at Hernandez level to be fair.

Not one of us expected Buendia to be as good as he’s been, but I fully expect once we’re relegated him to be gone so as I said we have a ready made winger already in the squad, the same can be said of Aarons.

Out of interest, how do you know this about him? Do you watch much Luxembourg football?

[Indy 3,283]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

Out of interest, how do you know this about him? Do you watch much Luxembourg football?

Hey look I’m not saying you’re wrong or right, I’m just basing my opinion on how he’s grown this season, his impact from the videos of his highlights and the reports on him.

You base your opinion on his league status I don’t, god knows Naismith and RVW show how not to rate a player based on his league.

We shall see, just 23 moving into his prime and developing nicely. But only one of a big bunch of very good youngsters.

Edited June 23, 2020 by Indy

[Mr.Carrow 376]

I believe Jordan Thomas is highly rated and been training with the first team? The club is still in an immensely strong position. We need to sort out the defensive/defensive midfield problems for next season but we can still be very positive. Just look down the road to see a fanbase with nothing but misery to look forward to.