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lEEDS ARE THROWING IT AWAY AGAIN

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I think unlike ourselves Leeds will do reasonably well, there is a big difference between the top 8 to 10 to the rest of the league. We have not learnt a thing from previous jaunts into TP.  The few signings we made have been abysmal 

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Leeds as a club will be focused, driven and determined to make a success of next season, they truly believe that they belong in the EPL and they will be prepared to take risks and spend money in order to stay there, plus the players will be under constant pressure to perform.

Edited by Canary Wundaboy

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22 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Leeds as a club will be focused, driven and determined to make a success of next season, they truly believe that they belong in the EPL and they will be prepared to take risks and spend money in order to stay there, plus the players will be under constant pressure to perform.

So are we. Being focused, driven and determined doesn't mean you stay up in the prem though. 

They'll be down.

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2 minutes ago, hogesar said:

So are we. Being focused, driven and determined doesn't mean you stay up in the prem though. 

They'll be down.

Disagree. Leeds may have choked in the past, but their desire to be in the EPL permutates all levels of the club, whereas our ownership openly despise the EPL and all its trappings. That’s one of the reasons we never establish ourselves.

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Just now, Canary Wundaboy said:

Disagree. Leeds may have choked in the past, but their desire to be in the EPL permutates all levels of the club, whereas our ownership openly despise the EPL and all its trappings. That’s one of the reasons we never establish ourselves.

Have a sit down with Webber and Farke and tell them that you don't think they're focused, driven and determined enough.

Baring in mind, of course, Leeds 'desire to be in the EPL permutates all levels of the club' hasn't been enough to get them into the prem all the times we have been, which makes your comment absolute ****! 

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2 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Have a sit down with Webber and Farke and tell them that you don't think they're focused, driven and determined enough.

Baring in mind, of course, Leeds 'desire to be in the EPL permutates all levels of the club' hasn't been enough to get them into the prem all the times we have been, which makes your comment absolute ****! 

The problem isn’t Webber, or Farke. Webber, like other motivated businessmen that have been in that role over the last 2 decades, manage to achieve short term but then find the owners unable to back up the success we do have, resulting in us sliding back down into the Champs and eventually the businessman ups and leaves. We’ll never establish ourselves as a Premier League club with Delia as our owner, I have always said that and so far have been proven right, we’re now the most-relegated club after all.

We may laugh at Leeds for their delusions of European success but they have managed to fight the same path we have (League One upwards) and will be a Premier a League club next season. The entire ownership, management and squad will then do absolutely everything to secure that going forwards, we won’t see Leeds come back down anytime soon.

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15 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

The problem isn’t Webber, or Farke. Webber, like other motivated businessmen that have been in that role over the last 2 decades, manage to achieve short term but then find the owners unable to back up the success we do have, resulting in us sliding back down into the Champs and eventually the businessman ups and leaves. We’ll never establish ourselves as a Premier League club with Delia as our owner, I have always said that and so far have been proven right, we’re now the most-relegated club after all.

We may laugh at Leeds for their delusions of European success but they have managed to fight the same path we have (League One upwards) and will be a Premier a League club next season. The entire ownership, management and squad will then do absolutely everything to secure that going forwards, we won’t see Leeds come back down anytime soon.

But you say the ownership, management and squad will do everything to secure that - how come we were able to get into the Prem so many times over the past decade where they haven't? Do we 'try harder'? Are our owners 'more determined' to get promoted in the first place than Leeds?

And then when we do get promoted do our owners not want to be there but Leeds do? And of course, everything you say about Leeds actually has no facts behind it. You're just saying stuff.

The facts are, you seem to think that Leeds as a club are so much better yet, over the past decade we've taken their better players, finished midtable in the premier league on more than one occassion whilst they've bottled it and achieved nothing in the Championship.

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7 minutes ago, hogesar said:

But you say the ownership, management and squad will do everything to secure that - how come we were able to get into the Prem so many times over the past decade where they haven't? Do we 'try harder'? Are our owners 'more determined' to get promoted in the first place than Leeds?

And then when we do get promoted do our owners not want to be there but Leeds do? And of course, everything you say about Leeds actually has no facts behind it. You're just saying stuff.

The facts are, you seem to think that Leeds as a club are so much better yet, over the past decade we've taken their better players, finished midtable in the premier league on more than one occassion whilst they've bottled it and achieved nothing in the Championship.

Our owners are on record saying they don’t like the Premier League. That attitude (along with the fact that they are the nearly the poorest owners in the top TWO leagues of English football) permeates through the club, and is the reason we can’t become an established EPL club.

Other clubs understand the importance of being in the EPL and fight tooth and nail to get and stay there. While we’ve had some great promotion campaigns have we ever fought tooth and nail to stay up? Done whatever it takes? Had messages from the management saying we’re going to stay up no matter what? Because the o my time I can remember such a thing was McNally and he got crucified for it, but like and behold we were relegated again. I am sick and tired of working so hard to get promoted only for the owners to be unable and unwilling to take us to the next step, I don’t want my club to be a yo-yo, I want to see us successful and established in the EPL. It’ll never happen with Delia in charge. End of.

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2 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Our owners are on record saying they don’t like the Premier League. That attitude (along with the fact that they are the nearly the poorest owners in the top TWO leagues of English football) permeates through the club, and is the reason we can’t become an established EPL club.

Other clubs understand the importance of being in the EPL and fight tooth and nail to get and stay there. While we’ve had some great promotion campaigns have we ever fought tooth and nail to stay up? Done whatever it takes? Had messages from the management saying we’re going to stay up no matter what? Because the o my time I can remember such a thing was McNally and he got crucified for it, but like and behold we were relegated again. I am sick and tired of working so hard to get promoted only for the owners to be unable and unwilling to take us to the next step, I don’t want my club to be a yo-yo, I want to see us successful and established in the EPL. It’ll never happen with Delia in charge. End of.

Over To Nutty to put you right on that statement.

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Bottom line they’ll be in TP and we’ll be inTC in a season where money will be tight and chances are we will lose the better players plus how things are going re the corona virus very much doubt the team will have the vocal support which is intimidating for opposition teams next season 

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24 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Our owners are on record saying they don’t like the Premier League. That attitude (along with the fact that they are the nearly the poorest owners in the top TWO leagues of English football) permeates through the club, and is the reason we can’t become an established EPL club.

Other clubs understand the importance of being in the EPL and fight tooth and nail to get and stay there. While we’ve had some great promotion campaigns have we ever fought tooth and nail to stay up? Done whatever it takes? Had messages from the management saying we’re going to stay up no matter what? Because the o my time I can remember such a thing was McNally and he got crucified for it, but like and behold we were relegated again. I am sick and tired of working so hard to get promoted only for the owners to be unable and unwilling to take us to the next step, I don’t want my club to be a yo-yo, I want to see us successful and established in the EPL. It’ll never happen with Delia in charge. End of.

But you're criticising our owners vs Leeds owners who so far have achieved significantly less than our own. You've just made a whole list of assumptions that Leeds will stay up, spend loads of money and do well. 

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47 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Other clubs understand the importance of being in the EPL and fight tooth and nail to get and stay there. While we’ve had some great promotion campaigns have we ever fought tooth and nail to stay up? Done whatever it takes?

We fought tooth and nail to get here, and I think you’re doing our players a massive disservice there, CW.

I feel from your post that you are saying every other club that ever gets promoted does everything it can to stay in the Premier League but we don’t. That’s your insinuation. Truth is, most of those teams get relegated first time of asking whether they want to stay there or not. And they’ll have spent a bit too. Wasted cash.

Even though it’s been said time and time again on here the last few days, I’ll say it again that we’re openly taking a unique approach in building our club these days i.e the self sustaining model. It’s no secret to any of you.

So that means we’d have a cautious go financially upon the last promotion and try and box clever with clever scouting and signings. Unfortunately most of the signings haven’t done what people wanted them to do, despite most looking like shrewd additions at the time. Hindsight is an amazing thing though. 

However...

This may not be what people want to hear, but by taking that approach meant if the worst comes to the worst, then we could go down having shrewdly banked as much PL cash as possible, putting us in an amazing position next season. Not only have we built our register up (not to mention parachute payments), but should we be one of the 3 to go up next season then we’ll find ourselves with a bit more to play with whilst the club remains in fantastic financial shape (and I would expect us to spend a little more with each attempt, of course).

I love a challenge rather than the ‘easy way’ (hello Russia and the Middle East), it’s obviously not to everyone’s taste, particularly the impatient or those that will never be happy unless we’re an established season in season out Champions League outfit, but it’ll be far more satisfying as we see the fruits of our labour in the coming seasons.

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You can see the difference between the ambition of us and Leeds by the fact they've only been relegated from the prem once. That's the mark of ambition.

What? They've never been promoted to the prem? Pah! So what! Promotions are two a penny. Really ambitious owners don't get their clubs promoted. They doss around between the champs and league one....

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6 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

We fought tooth and nail to get here, and I think you’re doing our players a massive disservice there, CW.

I feel from your post that you are saying every other club that ever gets promoted does everything it can to stay in the Premier League but we don’t. That’s your insinuation. Truth is, most of those teams get relegated first time of asking whether they want to stay there or not. And they’ll have spent a bit too. Wasted cash.

Even though it’s been said time and time again on here the last few days, I’ll say it again that we’re openly taking a unique approach in building our club these days i.e the self sustaining model. It’s no secret to any of you.

So that means we’d have a cautious go financially upon the last promotion and try and box clever with clever scouting and signings. Unfortunately most of the signings haven’t done what people wanted them to do, despite most looking like shrewd additions at the time. Hindsight is an amazing thing though. 

However...

This may not be what people want to hear, but by taking that approach meant if the worst comes to the worst, then we could go down having shrewdly banked as much PL cash as possible, putting us in an amazing position next season. Not only have we built our register up (not to mention parachute payments), but should we be one of the 3 to go up next season then we’ll find ourselves with a bit more to play with whilst the club remains in fantastic financial shape (and I would expect us to spend a little more with each attempt, of course).

I love a challenge rather than the ‘easy way’ (hello Russia and the Middle East), it’s obviously not to everyone’s taste, particularly the impatient or those that will never be happy unless we’re an established season in season out Champions League outfit, but it’ll be far more satisfying as we see the fruits of our labour in the coming seasons.

Good post. Also, fans wanting to be 'an established Premier League outfit' are setting unrealistic expectations. There are only 6, 7, at a real push 8 clubs in the entire country who can be classed as 'established' Premier League clubs. Every other club is one bad season away from a relegation scrap. 

I get to some fans just existing in the PL is the be all and end all - but I support Norwich, not the prem, not the big clubs. The reason why i'm so defensive of the club at the moment is they just delivered one of the best footballing seasons of my lifetime last season. I enjoyed it thouroughly. It's why I go to watch football.

I guess some don't really have any emotional attachment and the only objective is spending as much money as possible.

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1 hour ago, hogesar said:

So are we. Being focused, driven and determined doesn't mean you stay up in the prem though. 

They'll be down.

I think we’ll have to have a nice wager next season on the survival of Leeds if you wish. 

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11 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

You can see the difference between the ambition of us and Leeds by the fact they've only been relegated from the prem once. That's the mark of ambition.

What? They've never been promoted to the prem? Pah! So what! Promotions are two a penny. Really ambitious owners don't get their clubs promoted. They doss around between the champs and league one....

😂😁😂😁😂

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7 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

I think we’ll have to have a nice wager next season on the survival of Leeds if you wish. 

Happily. Money to go to PuP's?

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Leeds are going to have to spend a lot of money to stay up, I feel. They have a very good starting XI but not much else, and a couple of their important players are on loan. 

But Bielsa is a fabulous coach, and if he gets backed with a big transfer kitty, I can see them surviving. 

Leeds are a bit like Liverpool right now, in my eyes: I thoroughly dislike the club and the fanbase but I do really love their head coaches.

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11 minutes ago, hogesar said:

guess some don't really have any emotional attachment and the only objective is spending as much money as possible.

I get that impression too, Hoggy, and I think there’s two types of football supporter or fan. The worst thing is that when people feel like what you’ve highlighted, they’re never truly satisfied. Their team will win the Premier League and it still won’t be enough, I guarantee you they’ll still be grumbling or unhappy about something. Which is a shame. As Eddie once said, the thrill is in the glory of a successful season and winning promotion, not necessarily what it brings next (or words similar to that effect) 👍

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6 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Happily. Money to go to PuP's?

I’d bloody take that, H. Pup’s could be getting a return in mere weeks 😂

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Why do a section of our fans have this pathetic, fabricated rivalry with leeds. they are not rivals of ours and never have been. Yes we enjoyed pinching a few of their players and winding them up as they couldn't take that but other than that there is no reason for our fans to make fools of themselves with post such the original one here gloating when its patently obvious that Leeds are going to get promoted and we are going to get relegated and we will end up with egg on our face for threads like this one. They will probably buy one of our players this summer too. 

Our fans don't seem to get that they will be the ones with the last laugh when they show some actual ambition to stay in the top division and take advantage of being up there rather than the pathetic attitude that our club/owners have to the top flight.

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9 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Was thinking more my wallet but I’ll go with your suggestion. 

PUP's is way more interesting, because the club we support wins either way 🙂 

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Just now, Jim Smith said:

Why do a section of our fans have this pathetic, fabricated rivalry with leeds. 

Aside from the obvious answer that is 'nobody likes Leeds', a lot of it comes from them, I feel. We beat them to the League One title, got promotion the next season while they didn't and then we signed one of their key players four windows in a row and they hated that. 

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8 minutes ago, hogesar said:

PUP's is way more interesting, because the club we support wins either way 🙂 

Sounds good. So basically the bet is will Leeds be relegated next season. Alex is getting a little mixed up thinking this season matters too. 

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22 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

I get that impression too, Hoggy, and I think there’s two types of football supporter or fan. The worst thing is that when people feel like what you’ve highlighted, they’re never truly satisfied. Their team will win the Premier League and it still won’t be enough, I guarantee you they’ll still be grumbling or unhappy about something. Which is a shame. As Eddie once said, the thrill is in the glory of a successful season and winning promotion, not necessarily what it brings next (or words similar to that effect) 👍

There's no glory or thrill in being relegated. There's no glory or thrill in only having 5 wins over an entire season. There's no glory or thrill in being the most relegated EPL team ever. You can look at us as glass-half-empty if you will, I still love the promotions and the titles, I just wish that we could (as one of the founding EPL clubs) make some concerted effort both financially and on the pitch to bloody stay there!

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2 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

 I just wish that we could (as one of the founding EPL clubs) make some concerted effort both financially and on the pitch to bloody stay there!

We did last time, and it near took us to bankruptcy' The PL is made up of around eight 'certainties; and a dozen or so hopefuls. Hopeful that they can stay up.

Where I differ with many on here is that I don't judge our success by how many years we can stay as one of those hopefuls,but on how we fare when we do get relegated.

Too many who were once considered clubs who had 'consolidated; have come down, and down to earth. Stoke, Swansea, Bolton, Blackburn, Sunderland, Boro, Hull etc etc

It is not simply a case of 'more effort' as so many would not be failing like this. It is the harsh reality that you will be up against clubs foolish enough to blow everything on staying up.... until it is no longer feasible

And so down they come - unable to do more than wheeze out an existence in the CH or lower. We will not come down with players/contracts that we cannot shift - not a debt we cannot pay

Far more preferable to the former, and put bluntly clubs are unable to afford too many seasons in the PL without wrecking themselves financially.

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3 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

There's no glory or thrill in being relegated. There's no glory or thrill in only having 5 wins over an entire season. There's no glory or thrill in being the most relegated EPL team ever. You can look at us as glass-half-empty if you will, I still love the promotions and the titles, I just wish that we could (as one of the founding EPL clubs) make some concerted effort both financially and on the pitch to bloody stay there!

Of course there’s no glory or thrill in any of those things. I never said there was, as you well know. Everything else I’ve already covered in my previous response.

No we don’t have an Abramovich, or the current financial backing that you desire to be able to prop ourselves up if it didn’t work out (which is the likelihood). No matter how much you scream and shout, you can’t change that, and neither can I. So you need to get your head out of the clouds where you think it’s as simple as just recklessly gambling the clubs entire future just on the lower than average chance that it’ll secure us at least another season or 2 in the Premier League.

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24 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

Of course there’s no glory or thrill in any of those things. I never said there was, as you well know. Everything else I’ve already covered in my previous response.

No we don’t have an Abramovich, or the current financial backing that you desire to be able to prop ourselves up if it didn’t work out (which is the likelihood). No matter how much you scream and shout, you can’t change that, and neither can I. So you need to get your head out of the clouds where you think it’s as simple as just recklessly gambling the clubs entire future just on the lower than average chance that it’ll secure us at least another season or 2 in the Premier League.

And once again we of course ignore the middle ground. Of course, in the absence of much wealthier owners (if only) we cannot spend stupid amounts of cash but we could at least take a calculated risk to try and give ourselves a realistic chance of staying up when we have 5 or 6 players each worth £15m plus we can (and no doubt will) sell if we get relegated.

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1 hour ago, Jim Smith said:

Why do a section of our fans have this pathetic, fabricated rivalry with leeds. they are not rivals of ours and never have been. Yes we enjoyed pinching a few of their players and winding them up as they couldn't take that but other than that there is no reason for our fans to make fools of themselves with post such the original one here gloating when its patently obvious that Leeds are going to get promoted and we are going to get relegated and we will end up with egg on our face for threads like this one. They will probably buy one of our players this summer too. 

Our fans don't seem to get that they will be the ones with the last laugh when they show some actual ambition to stay in the top division and take advantage of being up there rather than the pathetic attitude that our club/owners have to the top flight.

This has got to be the biggest crock of one eyed nonsense I've ever read on here. Leeds, who have spent the last 16 seasons in the shadow of the ambitions of our owners, finally could be spending a season in the league above and somehow they have more ambition. How do you get there Jimbo?

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