Us, Bournemouth and one other

[nutty nigel 7,528]

2 minutes ago, king canary said:

As with probably every other club we've been at our best when we've put the right people in charge- the only shame is we, as Webber has said, 'pissed money up the wall' by backing the wrong managers. 

Give Farke/Webber the budget we gave to Hughton or Neil and I think we've got a decent chance of staying up. This would still have made us one of the lowest spenders in the league and it shouldn't be beyond us to make that happen.

That's probably fair Kingo. But then again if we'd signed Roberts, Farhmann and Amadou (for 50m?) we'd be in a worse position now?

 

[Dr Greenthumb 749]

11 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Probably not unless they've suddenly found the insight of following our example.

I guess they need to find the common denominator of our lucky seasons.

You keep referencing that word “lucky”. I only used to it to refer it to the wonderful job our scouting team did in one season and we were “lucky” to have them. 
 

I’m not praising your mates. They aren’t backing this club. What influence did they have on last season? Please tell me! Oh they created their slogan “self funding” and then asked for the fans help for a new training ground.

[nutty nigel 7,528]

1 minute ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

You keep referencing that word “lucky”. I only used to it to refer it to the wonderful job our scouting team did in one season and we were “lucky” to have them. 
 

I’m not praising your mates. They aren’t backing this club. What influence did they have on last season? Please tell me! Oh they created their slogan “self funding” and then asked for the fans help for a new training ground.

So you're saying that it's possible for a club to win the championship with only negative influence from its owners. Not just once either...

[Dr Greenthumb 749]

1 minute ago, nutty nigel said:

So you're saying that it's possible for a club to win the championship with only negative influence from its owners. Not just once either...

Of course it is, just like a club can get relegated from the premiership numerous times and the owners “ambition” is to be a premiership club! 

its also possible to get relegated to league one with negative influence from its owners! 

[nutty nigel 7,528]

1 minute ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

Of course it is, just like a club can get relegated from the premiership numerous times and the owners “ambition” is to be a premiership club! 

its also possible to get relegated to league one with negative influence from its owners! 

So all in all these negative influences produce more positive outcomes?

[Dr Greenthumb 749]

3 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

So all in all these negative influences produce more positive outcomes?

It depends what your aspirations are. You sound like you are happy being stuck in a loop between the premiership and the championship and don’t mind all the player sales that occur to “self fund”.

 

 So keep smiling and when your mates hand it over to the nephew, more of the same! 

[nutty nigel 7,528]

1 minute ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

It depends what your aspirations are. You sound like you are happy being stuck in a loop between the premiership and the championship and don’t mind all the player sales that occur to “self fund”.

 

 So keep smiling and when your mates hand it over to the nephew, more of the same! 

Being stuck in a loop between the prem and the champs is preferable to being stuck in the champs. Only 20 of the clubs who get a positive influence from your mates better that every season. Many more of your mates fall short.

 

 

[Midlands Yellow 3,974]

24 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

That's probably fair Kingo. But then again if we'd signed Roberts, Farhmann and Amadou (for 50m?) we'd be in a worse position now?

 

£50M ! We signed them on loan and would not have paid £20M for the three of them combined. 

[Dr Greenthumb 749]

Just now, nutty nigel said:

Being stuck in a loop between the prem and the champs is preferable to being stuck in the champs. Only 20 of the clubs who get a positive influence from your mates better that every season. Many more of your mates fall short.

 

 

We’ve just had 3 seasons in there ourselves. You have such a short memory!  I’m so glad you have enjoyed this season and are pleased with the outcome. It must be nice to not want your team to push on from the failings of each promotion. I will stick to my aspirations and you can just keep clapping at anything your mates do. 
 

[nutty nigel 7,528]

9 minutes ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

We’ve just had 3 seasons in there ourselves. You have such a short memory!  I’m so glad you have enjoyed this season and are pleased with the outcome. It must be nice to not want your team to push on from the failings of each promotion. I will stick to my aspirations and you can just keep clapping at anything your mates do. 
 

Why do you keep posting your opinion of me and then debating that? You seem to ignore my points and debate with yourself. I wonder which one of you will come out on top 🙃

[Midlands Yellow 3,974]

Not like Nutty to twist replies in exchanges. 

[hogesar 9,657]

This is where the ownership debate dies for me. Greenthumb refusing to give ANY credit towards our owners and in fact, according to him, all our promotions are despite them, rather than because of them.

Desperate.

[nutty nigel 7,528]

Indeed Hoggy. But to be fair to Greeno he obviously believes that the one relegation to league one had nothing to do with 'my mates' either.

[Dr Greenthumb 749]

25 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Why do you keep posting your opinion of me and then debating that? You seem to ignore my points and debate with yourself. I wonder which one of you will come out on top 🙃

I’d be better off debating with myself than talking to someone that didn’t understand the context of my “lucky to have” comment

[nutty nigel 7,528]

Just now, Dr Greenthumb said:

I’d be better off debating with myself than talking to someone that didn’t understand the context of my “lucky to have” comment

That's fair. I'm renowned for being a bit thick. Could you put it into context for me?

[Dr Greenthumb 749]

Just now, nutty nigel said:

Indeed Hoggy. But to be fair to Greeno he obviously believes that the one relegation to league one had nothing to do with 'my mates' either.

It had everything to do with them! Good grief, you just love taking words and spewing out whatever you dream up and attach someone to it. 

[Mello Yello 2,289]

 G'URN!!

[nutty nigel 7,528]

2 minutes ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

It had everything to do with them! Good grief, you just love taking words and spewing out whatever you dream up and attach someone to it. 

Ok. I was trying to be kind. So is it the one season in league one had everything to do with the owners but the subsequent five seasons in the prem had nothing to do with them?

[king canary 7,603]

1 hour ago, nutty nigel said:

That's probably fair Kingo. But then again if we'd signed Roberts, Farhmann and Amadou (for 50m?) we'd be in a worse position now?

 

Maybe.

However do you think if we had £50m to spend we'd have just dropped it on those three players on permanent deals?

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,811]

There just seems to be a group of people that think everything bad that happens is the fault of Delia and Michael, yet everything good has nothing to do with them.

I just can't get my head around that concept. 

[nutty nigel 7,528]

14 minutes ago, king canary said:

Maybe.

However do you think if we had £50m to spend we'd have just dropped it on those three players on permanent deals?

Maybe Duda as well? 

I don't know tbh. The players we spend money on rarely work out well and then we are stuck with their contracts for the next three years 

[sonyc 5,510]

13 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Why have the multiple owners of championship clubs such as Forest, Wednesday and Derby, never managed to get a sniff of the PL while we continually get promoted? Or are you guys saying it's so easy with our club that any of those owners could have done it here?

What is so special about our club that makes it keep happening?

It's a fact (and therefore free from any opinion!) that we have been promoted 3 times and relegated 3 times in the last decade. There are many teams who would have loved to swap places with us.

There has rarely been a boring moment. Pound for pound, we must rank right near the top of any table that measured drama and excitement over the last 10 years. Our owners have to take some degree of praise for that. For sure, we may love to think we could have been an established PL team in that time but we may actually have been far less entertained.

We've had a glorious trip to Wembley and a beautiful title amongst it all. Lifetime memories for many of us.

[Midlands Yellow 3,974]

1 minute ago, sonyc said:

It's a fact (and therefore free from any opinion!) that we have been promoted 3 times and relegated 3 times in the last decade. There are many teams who would have loved to swap places with us.

There has rarely been a boring moment. Pound for pound, we must rank right near the top of any table that measured drama and excitement over the last 10 years. Our owners have to take some degree of praise for that. For sure, we may love to think we could have been an established PL team in that time but we may actually have been far less entertained.

We've had a glorious trip to Wembley and a beautiful title amongst it all. Lifetime memories for many of us.

You can’t beat the feeling of relegation again and again can you. 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,811]

6 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

You can’t beat the feeling of relegation again and again can you. 

Why on earth would anyone choose to focus on the relegations rather than the promotions? How miserable do you have to be?

I'm not singling you out here MY, but I really don't understand why some people bother to follow football if all they ever do is complain about it. Luckily, there aren't many on here, but Facebook is absolutely full of them.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

On 21/06/2020 at 13:02, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

OK, for clarity I agree that our low spend has not helped our cause and will be a contributory factor to us getting relegated, if you search this board you will see that I was of the view that the club should have taken a bit of managed risk in its spending, rather than the approach it has taken. I have seen no evidence offered yet that directly correlates to the three clubs that spend the least getting relegated each year, my own quick piece of "back of a fag packet" analysis would suggest it is not necessarily the case. A good example of that would be the three teams that went down last season were not the three lowest spenders (Fulham were in fact the second highest spenders). This season, Norwich aside, the two teams that come down with us will not be the second and third lowest spenders and there is a possibility for the second season running a team that has spent in excess of £100M will get relegated. My £100M comment was not about the amount of money Norwich should have spent, it was making the very simple point that if all 20 Premier League clubs started from the same point and they all spent exactly the same amount on players (£100m), three of those clubs will still be relegated at the end of the season, so we would have to look beyond just the financial outlay and see what other contributory factors there were that led to those three teams being relegated......

Its not about the amount you spend though really is it, its about investing and targeting spending on the key areas that need improving.  The other key consideration though is the wages. We can't pay the wages to compete up here for more than say 1 or 2 seasons. 

[Jim Smith 2,317]

20 hours ago, hogesar said:

The amount Villa spent, not just this season but in the last couple - and I'm not sure they can defend better than us 

Villa are a shambles at the back and yes they've spent loads more than us. They needed to though. Half their team were loanees who they lost. they had to spend about £60m just to replace what they lost and before they even started improving a team that was not as good as us last season.

The frustrating thing with us is that we probably only needed 2 or 3 quality additions to bring the best out of what we already had. 

[Midlands Yellow 3,974]

2 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Why on earth would anyone choose to focus on the relegations rather than the promotions? How miserable do you have to be?

I'm not singling you out here MY, but I really don't understand why some people bother to follow football if all they ever do is complain about it. Luckily, there aren't many on here, but Facebook is absolutely full of them.

Maybe they don’t hurt enough or frustrate enough for a lot of fans. Clubs our size will always be relegated back to the  Championship but could we stay up a little longer. 

 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,811]

1 minute ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Maybe they don’t hurt enough or frustrate enough for a lot of fans. Clubs our size will always be relegated back to the  Championship but could we stay up a little longer. 

 

The joy and fun of a promotion season outweigh the frustration and pain relegation, in my opinion. Except the relegation to League One, of course.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

This is where the ownership debate dies for me. Greenthumb refusing to give ANY credit towards our owners and in fact, according to him, all our promotions are despite them, rather than because of them.

Desperate.

Every so often our owners are forced to step back and to bring in people to run the club for them. To be fair to them they have done well in terms of listening to people and bringing in Mcnally and then more recently Webber. These appointments are what have brought us success (unless McNally lost the plot a bit)  along with (generally) making good use of our parachute payments.

In the last two decades any time our board has had more direct control over footballing matters without a capable CEO has not gone as well.

I would suggest that where some of these other clubs regularly fail to get promoted despite greater riches there is an element there (Derby, Forest, Shef Weds) of meddling owners who get a bit too hands on and perhaps lack the patience that our owners have shown at times.

That patience can be a double edged sword though. In the championship it has generally benefitted us in recent times. In premier league I think it (plus the lack of genuine ambition to stay there) has hindered us as we have not been ruthless enough at times and tended to succumb to relegation with barely a whimper.

So it works both ways but I do fear that one time a relegation will prove one relegation to far, There are only so many times you can yo-yo up and down before the realisation that you cannot sustain premier league football under this ownership starts to eat away at the club. Although we have had several promotions, I believe this season will see us become the team with the record number of relegations from the premier league. Whilst others may not have taken the chance to get to the premier league as we have done, nobody else will have wasted as many opportunities to dine at the top table.

 

[Midlands Yellow 3,974]

Just now, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

The joy and fun of a promotion season outweigh the frustration and pain relegation, in my opinion. Except the relegation to League One, of course.

Awesome football last season most definitely. Frustrating to go up as champions though and not back a top class coach to improve further.