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lake district canary

Hang in there, all is not lost!

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I can understand disappointment at losing, but the over reaction to yesterday is a bit harsh, given the circumstances we are all in.  These are unprecedented times and football is going through it's own trauma trying to deal with the conditions caused by the coronavirus.  Clubs are all in the same boat, for sure, but dealing with the situation is hard. Worst of all is there are no fans allowed at the games and this is a big factor at home matches.   

So dig deep and look at the situation calmly and rationally and you will see an almost impossible situation. Up against it in the league being so far down, the weirdness of the situation and the continued saga of injuries to defenders and opposition of far greater resources than us. 

Yeah, yeah, blah, blah, change the owners.........change the record more like.  A continued bleating of fans seemimgly self entitled and demanding change when we are STILL one of the best clubs in the country.  Premier league or championship, one of the best clubs in the country.  That is how we are getting to the PL so often and other clubs of greater resources can't get anywhere near it.  So you can't accept being the small resourced club that keeps coming back only to be knocked down again. Well tough. Welcome to the real world.  NCFC is the envy of many clubs in the football league - and probably some in the PL as well.  We try to play football in it's best form, not just physical dominance.  We try to play like Man City and Liverpool - the footballing dream.

Yes, it's a dream - a dream that is worth everything - look how good we can look against ANY team - yes, we haven't been able to sustain it for long enough or score the goals that kind of play has deserved - but we can look fantastic.  Yesterday was one of those matches where we just got physically outdone and the pressure of that week after week has been telling.  Farkeball - at it's best - is fantastic - and anyone who does not think that his style of football is the best we have ever seen (when it is working well) - or at least as good as those days in the late 80s early 90s, then they are plainly just not really understanding anything. 

So be careful - and don't be sucked into the dramas that social media throws up - the ones where anti-ncfc trolls try to paint a terrible picture of the club - we know who you are.  Think for yourselves - look at it with an open mind - yes, yesterday was an awful match, but try and accept that the circumstances are against us.  Sure some things could be done differently, but in Farke we trust........or should do, given his achievements with us so far.  

Imo, the first matches in this closed door series are unknowns for everyone, players and fans alike - it's all very strange. We came off badly yesterday, but there will be lessons learned and the experience of that first weird scenario of a match will help us next time.

The miracle is still there to be had, looking unlikely, I know, but hang in there, we know we can play great football - and maybe there are some twists and turns to come.

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10 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I can understand disappointment at losing, but the over reaction to yesterday is a bit harsh, given the circumstances we are all in.  These are unprecedented times and football is going through it's own trauma trying to deal with the conditions caused by the coronavirus.  Clubs are all in the same boat, for sure, but dealing with the situation is hard. Worst of all is there are no fans allowed at the games and this is a big factor at home matches.   

So dig deep and look at the situation calmly and rationally and you will see an almost impossible situation. Up against it in the league being so far down, the weirdness of the situation and the continued saga of injuries to defenders and opposition of far greater resources than us. 

Yeah, yeah, blah, blah, change the owners.........change the record more like.  A continued bleating of fans seemimgly self entitled and demanding change when we are STILL one of the best clubs in the country.  Premier league or championship, one of the best clubs in the country.  That is how we are getting to the PL so often and other clubs of greater resources can't get anywhere near it.  So you can't accept being the small resourced club that keeps coming back only to be knocked down again. Well tough. Welcome to the real world.  NCFC is the envy of many clubs in the football league - and probably some in the PL as well.  We try to play football in it's best form, not just physical dominance.  We try to play like Man City and Liverpool - the footballing dream.

Yes, it's a dream - a dream that is worth everything - look how good we can look against ANY team - yes, we haven't been able to sustain it for long enough or score the goals that kind of play has deserved - but we can look fantastic.  Yesterday was one of those matches where we just got physically outdone and the pressure of that week after week has been telling.  Farkeball - at it's best - is fantastic - and anyone who does not think that his style of football is the best we have ever seen (when it is working well) - or at least as good as those days in the late 80s early 90s, then they are plainly just not really understanding anything. 

So be careful - and don't be sucked into the dramas that social media throws up - the ones where anti-ncfc trolls try to paint a terrible picture of the club - we know who you are.  Think for yourselves - look at it with an open mind - yes, yesterday was an awful match, but try and accept that the circumstances are against us.  Sure some things could be done differently, but in Farke we trust........or should do, given his achievements with us so far.  

Imo, the first matches in this closed door series are unknowns for everyone, players and fans alike - it's all very strange. We came off badly yesterday, but there will be lessons learned and the experience of that first weird scenario of a match will help us next time.

The miracle is still there to be had, looking unlikely, I know, but hang in there, we know we can play great football - and maybe there are some twists and turns to come.

After much reflection this morning I can only echo your sentiments Lakey. Survival starts against Everton and I’m sure the lads are up for the fight. 

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23 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I can understand disappointment at losing, but the over reaction to yesterday is a bit harsh, given the circumstances we are all in.  These are unprecedented times and football is going through it's own trauma trying to deal with the conditions caused by the coronavirus.  Clubs are all in the same boat, for sure, but dealing with the situation is hard. Worst of all is there are no fans allowed at the games and this is a big factor at home matches.   

So dig deep and look at the situation calmly and rationally and you will see an almost impossible situation. Up against it in the league being so far down, the weirdness of the situation and the continued saga of injuries to defenders and opposition of far greater resources than us. 

Yeah, yeah, blah, blah, change the owners.........change the record more like.  A continued bleating of fans seemimgly self entitled and demanding change when we are STILL one of the best clubs in the country.  Premier league or championship, one of the best clubs in the country.  That is how we are getting to the PL so often and other clubs of greater resources can't get anywhere near it.  So you can't accept being the small resourced club that keeps coming back only to be knocked down again. Well tough. Welcome to the real world.  NCFC is the envy of many clubs in the football league - and probably some in the PL as well.  We try to play football in it's best form, not just physical dominance.  We try to play like Man City and Liverpool - the footballing dream.

Yes, it's a dream - a dream that is worth everything - look how good we can look against ANY team - yes, we haven't been able to sustain it for long enough or score the goals that kind of play has deserved - but we can look fantastic.  Yesterday was one of those matches where we just got physically outdone and the pressure of that week after week has been telling.  Farkeball - at it's best - is fantastic - and anyone who does not think that his style of football is the best we have ever seen (when it is working well) - or at least as good as those days in the late 80s early 90s, then they are plainly just not really understanding anything. 

So be careful - and don't be sucked into the dramas that social media throws up - the ones where anti-ncfc trolls try to paint a terrible picture of the club - we know who you are.  Think for yourselves - look at it with an open mind - yes, yesterday was an awful match, but try and accept that the circumstances are against us.  Sure some things could be done differently, but in Farke we trust........or should do, given his achievements with us so far.  

Imo, the first matches in this closed door series are unknowns for everyone, players and fans alike - it's all very strange. We came off badly yesterday, but there will be lessons learned and the experience of that first weird scenario of a match will help us next time.

The miracle is still there to be had, looking unlikely, I know, but hang in there, we know we can play great football - and maybe there are some twists and turns to come.

I look forward to reading the replies to this one, Lakey!

I have to agree with you about the bit in bold, though. We are down, and there will be no miracle, but we must keep faith with the long-term plan. If investment turns up on our doorstep then great, but if it doesn't this is the best template we can hope for.

If you want to know what real failure looks like, look at what's happening at the other end of the A140.

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11 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

After much reflection this morning I can only echo your sentiments Lakey. Survival starts against Everton and I’m sure the lads are up for the fight. 

Wish I had your faith...if they weren’t up for yesterday’s game, first in months, against a not very good team and with the chance to reinvigorate the season , why will they be up for it on Wednesday?

I was full of belief before yesterday and honestly thought we’d beat Southampton and Everton and then have a really good go at staying up. Sadly I now don’t think the players are as bothered about it is as I am 😢

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To be fair whilst it's a bit patronising (it is Lakey, after all) your post has some very valid points.

I'm assuming due to lockdown peoples capability of emotional intelligence has somewhat reduced and it's been a ridiculous over-reaction to one game. Suddenly it's Delia Out, Webber's a cheat, Farke's a fraud and none of our young players are fit to wear the shirt.

Hopefully as people start to socialise more the ability to control emotions and not diarrhea all over this board will come to the fore.

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As ever I can only admire your willingness to wave the big 'everything will be ok' flag Lakey.

But not for me I'm afraid. If we'd played like devils yesterday and been undone by a dodgy VAR decision I'm sure I'd still be up for it, but having seen that we haven't developed our approach during the enforced break my heart has gone out of this season.

As I said on another thread, I can accept not being good enough but giving everything we have. And I can't believe yesterday was anywhere near leaving it all out there.

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2 minutes ago, hogesar said:

To be fair whilst it's a bit patronising (it is Lakey, after all) your post has some very valid points.

I'm assuming due to lockdown peoples capability of emotional intelligence has somewhat reduced and it's been a ridiculous over-reaction to one game. Suddenly it's Delia Out, Webber's a cheat, Farke's a fraud and none of our young players are fit to wear the shirt.

Hopefully as people start to socialise more the ability to control emotions and not diarrhea all over this board will come to the fore.

More rational points here to back up Lakey. Delia and the gang can’t suddenly become pariahs after one poor performance. 

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One of the worst goals against last season and the worst this season and you expect to stay in this division

It ain’t going to happen 

 

 

 

 

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There's blind faith and then there's stupidity. It's over and has been over for some time.

The long break revived hope that the restart might be like a new season, but last night crushed that dream.

All eyes should now be concentrated on next season and blooding one or two that will be likely starters when we restart in the lower league.

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If we can't as a side fighting for our lives, put in a fighting performance against a team with zero to play for, who had won once since January (home against another relegation threatened side) then we have serious problems and perhaps they need to have a long hard look at themselves?

Southampton would have probably been the team we would have picked to play at home, on our first game back, if we had a choice.

We lost 0-3 and it should have been a heavier defeat. Again we have defensive injury issues which have plagued us since last season, and are now relying on our most injury prone CD to deliver. 

I am the most optimistic of supporters and do not fear the drop.

However, no matter how you dress it up. We have failed to prepare.

Again!

 

 

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3 minutes ago, ricardo said:

There's blind faith and then there's stupidity. It's over and has been over for some time.

The long break revived hope that the restart might be like a new season, but last night crushed that dream.

All eyes should now be concentrated on next season and blooding one or two that will be likely starters when we restart in the lower league.

Don’t forget we’re still in the cup Ricardo. 

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12 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Don’t forget we’re still in the cup Ricardo. 

I watched Spurs and Man U after our game. It looked like football on a different planet.

Realistically, without a home crowd, I don't see much chance of further progress.

Miracles can happen I know but in reality our chances are slim to none.

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1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

I can understand disappointment at losing, but the over reaction to yesterday is a bit harsh, given the circumstances we are all in.  These are unprecedented times and football is going through it's own trauma trying to deal with the conditions caused by the coronavirus.  Clubs are all in the same boat, for sure, but dealing with the situation is hard. Worst of all is there are no fans allowed at the games and this is a big factor at home matches.   

So dig deep and look at the situation calmly and rationally and you will see an almost impossible situation. Up against it in the league being so far down, the weirdness of the situation and the continued saga of injuries to defenders and opposition of far greater resources than us. 

Yeah, yeah, blah, blah, change the owners.........change the record more like.  A continued bleating of fans seemimgly self entitled and demanding change when we are STILL one of the best clubs in the country.  Premier league or championship, one of the best clubs in the country.  That is how we are getting to the PL so often and other clubs of greater resources can't get anywhere near it.  So you can't accept being the small resourced club that keeps coming back only to be knocked down again. Well tough. Welcome to the real world.  NCFC is the envy of many clubs in the football league - and probably some in the PL as well.  We try to play football in it's best form, not just physical dominance.  We try to play like Man City and Liverpool - the footballing dream.

Yes, it's a dream - a dream that is worth everything - look how good we can look against ANY team - yes, we haven't been able to sustain it for long enough or score the goals that kind of play has deserved - but we can look fantastic.  Yesterday was one of those matches where we just got physically outdone and the pressure of that week after week has been telling.  Farkeball - at it's best - is fantastic - and anyone who does not think that his style of football is the best we have ever seen (when it is working well) - or at least as good as those days in the late 80s early 90s, then they are plainly just not really understanding anything. 

So be careful - and don't be sucked into the dramas that social media throws up - the ones where anti-ncfc trolls try to paint a terrible picture of the club - we know who you are.  Think for yourselves - look at it with an open mind - yes, yesterday was an awful match, but try and accept that the circumstances are against us.  Sure some things could be done differently, but in Farke we trust........or should do, given his achievements with us so far.  

Imo, the first matches in this closed door series are unknowns for everyone, players and fans alike - it's all very strange. We came off badly yesterday, but there will be lessons learned and the experience of that first weird scenario of a match will help us next time.

The miracle is still there to be had, looking unlikely, I know, but hang in there, we know we can play great football - and maybe there are some twists and turns to come.

Priceless 

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1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

These are unprecedented times

Yes, here we go, how many times have I heard that old chestnut over the last 3 months.

That seems to be the default excuse for everything that goes wrong but it doesn't wash with what I watched last night.

The only unprecedented thing about that was that our team managed to dish up an absolute shocker of a performance just when the complete opposite was needed.

Bad enough in ordinary circumstances but totally unacceptable when you have 9 games left to get out of jail.

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1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

These are unprecedented times and football is going through it's own trauma trying to deal with the conditions caused by the coronavirus. 

I didn't realise Southampton wasn't in lockdown, no wonder they looked so much fitter! 

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20 minutes ago, ricardo said:

I watched Spurs and Man U after our game. It looked like football on a different planet.

Realistically, without a home crowd, I don't see much chance of further progress.

Miracles can happen I know but in reality our chances are slim to none.

Didn't we knock spurs out in the last round?

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Thank you for the antidote Lakey though it's not to be an elixir for our season. The FA Cup will be interesting.

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Posted (edited)

 

38 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Thank you for the antidote Lakey though it's not to be an elixir for our season. The FA Cup will be interesting.

Ah yes, the cup........just shows we've still potentially got a lot to look forward to this season.  If nothing else, being a Norwich fan is a roller coaster........but then roller coasters can be exilharating....down one minute, up the next........we've seen it before, lose a match badly, get a reaction and do much better the next, a down yesterday, hopefully an up for the next match.  

It may be what some class as being a happy clapper, but it is possible to be optimistic, even when everything is against you, you can still thrive - as shown when beating Man City with a makeshift team.  Anything can happen.....still 8 games to go and potentially 11 including the cup......that's nearly a quarter of a season.

Edited by lake district canary

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1 hour ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

 I think any chance of survival has left the building.

Along with the resident Mr Carrow

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The team I saw didn’t look well drilled enough, fit enough or hungry enough to survive. It looked devoid of ideas and lacking any real bite.

We are almost certainly going down and that’s because we are one of if not the weakest team.

I wish that wasn’t the case, but it clearly is. They took a gamble this year to spend minimally in the hopes of staying up rather than risk a bigger financial outlay. It hasn’t paid off. I don’t agree it was the right approach, but I understand it.

We have a squad of players that almost to a man lacks either the experience or the quality required to compete in this division. Managed by a clearly talented guy but who is learning as he goes with probably the worst tool set in the division.

I’m a realist, I wish things were different, I wish we’d risked a bit more to try and compete but I don’t really blame the Board for that, especially given the economic shock of this season on club finances in hindsight. Nor do I blame Webber or Farke particularly for the fact they’ve made errors, they will hopefully learn from the mistakes and continue to grow with us as a club.

While I’m disappointed by this season the real kicker will be if we don’t make progress as a club next season towards becoming an established PL team. So no I don’t want to see the board, Webber or Farke go personally. Stability is the most likely thing to breed long term success.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

The team I saw didn’t look well drilled enough, fit enough or hungry enough to survive. It looked devoid of ideas and lacking any real bite.

We are almost certainly going down and that’s because we are one of if not the weakest team.

I wish that wasn’t the case, but it clearly is. They took a gamble this year to spend minimally in the hopes of staying up rather than risk a bigger financial outlay. It hasn’t paid off. I don’t agree it was the right approach, but I understand it.

We have a squad of players that almost to a man lacks either the experience or the quality required to compete in this division. Managed by a clearly talented guy but who is learning as he goes with probably the worst tool set in the division.

I’m a realist, I wish things were different, I wish we’d risked a bit more to try and compete but I don’t really blame the Board for that, especially given the economic shock of this season on club finances in hindsight. Nor do I blame Webber or Farke particularly for the fact they’ve made errors, they will hopefully learn from the mistakes and continue to grow with us as a club.

While I’m disappointed by this season the real kicker will be if we don’t make progress as a club next season towards becoming an established PL team. So no I don’t want to see the board, Webber or Farke go personally. Stability is the most likely thing to breed long term success.

The weakest. 

By far. 

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Webber is leaving, he's already said so after next season(?) Unless he does a Tory Party u-turn.

The question will be is Farke up for another promotion challenge when expectations will be sky high.

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Posted (edited)

Yeah, yeah, blah, blah, change the owners.........change the record more like.  A continued bleating of fans seemimgly self entitled and demanding change when we are STILL one of the best clubs in the country.  Premier league or championship, one of the best clubs in the country.  That is how we are getting to the PL so often and other clubs of greater resources can't get anywhere near it.

I have supported this club and been watching since 1972 so I tend not to listen to idiots when they get personal (self entitled, bleating) with people who have a different view. Try and keep it mature.

Oh and what is it that makes the club so much better than others? Really interested in your views (just not the silly abuse)

 

Edited by Kenny Foggo

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Posted (edited)

Excellent post @Monty13.....that’s a very fair assessment.

Last night was an extraordinary game with no redeeming features that I could conceive of.

Farke broke his template and changed the system, rejecting the previously deeply-drilled methodology and therefore tacitly telling the players it wasn’t working. The change horribly exposed a very weak and poor midfield. 

The players - almost to a man - looked dramatically less fit than Southampton across the field. The second half was akin to watching a pre-season friendly where one side is about to start their League campaign and the other is just starting out building stamina. 

Truthfully the Norwich players almost all looked a good way short of the required quality and - whilst Lakey is right to point out the exceptional circumstances - these factors must apply also to Southampton. 

Psychologically it all looked very fragile and unconvincing, leading to multiple basic errors. Without confidence, high risk overloads deep in the defensive areas becomes very vulnerable to a high press. Playing an additional forward makes the linkages weaker and the options for such play less. It was tricky enough before. The players looked demoralised very quickly. 

Defensively - including defensive midfield - the spaces offered were extraordinary. It is hard to defend that. It looked like collective paralysis. 

It would be tempting now to play a Brian Clough style wildcard and literally tell the players that they are relegated and to concentrate on the Cup. Knowing players they would very much resent such a suggestion and it might just have a reverse effect if played with a good poker face. 

Rather than not wanting it enough, I suspect that the players knew how important the game was and felt it too much. I’m not sure a starting line up with Trybull, Drmic a half-fit Klose and McClean through the spine ever looked right (quite possibly to the players themselves).

Aarons continues to impress, though that’s about the only positive to cling to really on last night’s evidence. A very, very painful one for any fan. 

Parma

Edited by Parma Ham's gone mouldy
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Very considered post Parma (and Monty) and accurately describes how I saw it but better articulated than I might have managed. Likewise Aarons was the brightest spark. Yet I think if we lose two players it will be him and Todd Cantwell.

It will indeed be interesting to see just what we do next, how we set up, who gets dropped and what kind of mentality we have for Everton or Manchester United. Psychologically, we looked 'done' yesterday and I've not seen that in a Farke team so much.  A loss of belief is damaging at any time but now possibly defines how the season will go.

The table doesn't (and hasn't) lied. Hope as ever springs but I want some evidence to base it on.

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3 hours ago, lake district canary said:

I can understand disappointment at losing, but the over reaction to yesterday is a bit harsh, given the circumstances we are all in.  These are unprecedented times and football is going through it's own trauma trying to deal with the conditions caused by the coronavirus.  Clubs are all in the same boat, for sure, but dealing with the situation is hard. Worst of all is there are no fans allowed at the games and this is a big factor at home matches.   

So dig deep and look at the situation calmly and rationally and you will see an almost impossible situation. Up against it in the league being so far down, the weirdness of the situation and the continued saga of injuries to defenders and opposition of far greater resources than us. 

Yeah, yeah, blah, blah, change the owners.........change the record more like.  A continued bleating of fans seemimgly self entitled and demanding change when we are STILL one of the best clubs in the country.  Premier league or championship, one of the best clubs in the country.  That is how we are getting to the PL so often and other clubs of greater resources can't get anywhere near it.  So you can't accept being the small resourced club that keeps coming back only to be knocked down again. Well tough. Welcome to the real world.  NCFC is the envy of many clubs in the football league - and probably some in the PL as well.  We try to play football in it's best form, not just physical dominance.  We try to play like Man City and Liverpool - the footballing dream.

Yes, it's a dream - a dream that is worth everything - look how good we can look against ANY team - yes, we haven't been able to sustain it for long enough or score the goals that kind of play has deserved - but we can look fantastic.  Yesterday was one of those matches where we just got physically outdone and the pressure of that week after week has been telling.  Farkeball - at it's best - is fantastic - and anyone who does not think that his style of football is the best we have ever seen (when it is working well) - or at least as good as those days in the late 80s early 90s, then they are plainly just not really understanding anything. 

So be careful - and don't be sucked into the dramas that social media throws up - the ones where anti-ncfc trolls try to paint a terrible picture of the club - we know who you are.  Think for yourselves - look at it with an open mind - yes, yesterday was an awful match, but try and accept that the circumstances are against us.  Sure some things could be done differently, but in Farke we trust........or should do, given his achievements with us so far.  

Imo, the first matches in this closed door series are unknowns for everyone, players and fans alike - it's all very strange. We came off badly yesterday, but there will be lessons learned and the experience of that first weird scenario of a match will help us next time.

The miracle is still there to be had, looking unlikely, I know, but hang in there, we know we can play great football - and maybe there are some twists and turns to come.

I was right with you until "The miracle is still there to be had"; It's really not.

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All is not lost - for next season...

Daniel Adshead (aged18)

Archie Mair (19)

Charlie Gilmour (21)

Aidan Fitzpatrick (19)

Melvin Sitti (20)

Sam McCallum (19)

Rocky Bushiri (20)

Adam Idah (19)

Josh Martin (18)

Daniel Sinani (23)

Alexander-Martin-Gary Tettey-Peters-Holt (test-tube age 6 months)

Steve-Malky-Craig Bruce-Mackay-Fleming (test-tube age 6 months)

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Posted (edited)

Something I would add - that is not intended to exonerate a poor performance - is that I did not feel it was a ‘scapegoat’ performance. No single player made dramatic errors, everybody was well short in tactical, technical, physically and - apparently - psychological terms.

Pukki - our most effective player - repeatedly did not ‘get away’ when presented with decent opportunities to scamper away crab-like and get a shot away on target as we have all seen him do effectively many, many times. He looked slow, rusty and mentally encumbered. His reactions times looked slow. 

Whilst we all love Klose as a player (at his best), it appeared to me - and this is only an opinion based on the footage - that others around him were less than convinced by his mobility. The act of having to ‘half-cover just-in-case’ for another player (as Godfrey appeared to be doing at times) massively impacts your own game and can be quickly noticed and exploited by street-wise opponents. In coaching terms ‘it isn’t always the one who makes the mistake that makes the mistake’. 

MacClean and Trybull should perhaps have ‘sat’ more to combat this, though our two strikers - if they don’t both work very hard into the channels and sometimes drop in and sometimes don’t - can create confusion via erratic tactical movements that affect the midfielders behind them. 

To compound this Buendia gave the ball away too much in poor areas and Cantwell did not get into the rhythm of the game. That’s a lot of your players looking around trying to make sense of the (changed) on-field structure. Farke must also take a bullet in the shoulder for that.

Whilst no-one will lament the end of Chris Hughton’s time much, there is method in the madness of not changing if you are inferior (which on paper we have always been this year). If you do tear up the drilled blueprint your much-grooved, repeated message - that has been a psychologically comfort-blanket to your players, coaxing the best available out of them via clear methodology - you always run the risk of chaos and confusion ensuing on-field.*

*This is especially and particularly true as an inferior side note, it doesn’t apply as much to top sides who can focus more on flexible-attack strategies to simply create problems for others. If you’re worse I’m afraid you can’t really get away with this.

 And we didn’t.

Parma 
 

Edited by Parma Ham's gone mouldy
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