One of the most abject, pathetic performances of my supporting lifetime

[benchwarmer 624]

A message to the club:

Don't think you can take the fans for granted any more.  Serve up any old carp and we'll fill the ground as soon as this is over.  Everything is changing, and people are starting to think twice.

 

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by benchwarmer

[ricardo 7,340]

4 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

I think the problem with him Ricardo is I still think he’s the player most likely to damage the opposition, the only problem is he’s also the player most likely to damage us.

That has certainly been demonstrated a few times this season.

[Yellow Fever 3,740]

16 minutes ago, ricardo said:

That has certainly been demonstrated a few times this season.

The trouble is he hasn't damaged the opposition at all this season but has damaged us on more than one occasion.

Frankly I'm just disappointed we started where we left off .. it's as if we or Farke haven't learnt any lessons in the lockdown.

I dont blame the.defence, the problem is as ever the midfield. Too slow, too ponderous and not creative enough.

Did Soton's goalie have to make ANY saves ?

I could go on ....

 

 

[Midlands Yellow 3,925]

We are going down and deservedly so. I’m glad we won’t get the opportunity to stay up by default as many coveted. 

[king canary 7,578]

29 minutes ago, ricardo said:

That has certainly been demonstrated a few times this season.

I'd suggest that's an unfair blame to lay at his door.

Emi has, by all measures, been one of the most creative players in the league. With that comes errors and mistakes which all creative 0kayers have.

Where we've failed is to give talents like his a solid enough defensive base to prevent those errors being punished regularly. Our central midfield is sliced through with ease time and time again and our tactical approach means our fullbacks often are miles out of position when a ball is lost. Those aren't Emi's fault.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

2 hours ago, canarycop said:

Where was Aaron's overlapping today. Lewis going backwards at every opportunity

I missed the game, thought it was tomorrow! I read something that said the team had been working on a nw approach to hopefully be more solid at the back. I interpreted that as abandoning the attacking full-backs, as that has left us far too exposed in this division, but also provides our width. In going 4-4-2 it looks lke he was trying to have the full-backs playing as a defensive unit in a flat back 4 with the width coming from wide midfielders. I also thought on paper playing Drmic and Pukki together for the remainder made sense - real shame it hasnt worked, cuz on paper it seems sensible

 

 

[Jim Smith 2,314]

Whilst all of our “usual” problems were vividly evident tonight (Especially the fact he sends them out practically in a coma after half time) the decision not to play Tettey as a holding midfielder was by far the most ludicrous. At this level it’s probably the most important position and he’s the only player we have capable of playing it.

when you have three attacking midfielders who are lightweight and tend to give the ball away a lot by trying stuff in dangerous areas, playing without a proper defensive midfielder is suicide. We nearly got done a few times in the first half but after we didn’t change it at half time we were toast.

Farke has not been given the resources to compete but even so he has been massively disappointing . 

[Tumbleweed 106]

It's not just one thing going wrong there are several. We've shown the same faults most of the season and some carried through from before. I was genuinely shocked tonight against a team who were already pretty much safe. Not a single player had a good night today maybe bar Krul, he was given some real hospital passes tonight. This is where the  Director of Football, I.e. Webber has to work out what can be done and go and fix it.

[Trevor Hockey's Beard 526]

1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

And who could forget Phil Hubbard?

I could, and had, until now. Thanks.

[hogesar 9,615]

Really difficult to compare because we are trying to apply a long term plan to the club where philosophy overrides instant success. Personally I'm glad to see us do this for the first time. 

Every other time it's just been doing anything we can to try and stay up and then.....do the same again. 

The theory this time, at least, is that the philosophy and style of play throughout the club should always give us a decent chance of coming up whilst also creating an easier pathway for youngsters to progress.

That's the theory and all we have to go on so far is :

- 1st champ season struggled to be effective with style of play
- 2nd champ season played the best football in division and won the league
- 1st prem season not been good enough but shown glimpses of how our style of play can be effective but lack the experience and personnel.

I'm pretty excited for the future but I know some fans see the prem as the be all and end all and nothing else matters. I mean, that soon changes when you start playing boring negative football but no one admits to that until they actually suffer it.

And whilst I'm quietly confident, I know as soon as we lose a game the Webber / Farke / Board are all useless etc comes out from certain quarters and that will never stop. I just sincerely hope the vocal minority dont do enough damage to p*ss of the likes of Webber and Farke to the point they decide to leave earlier than they would normally.

[earnie1 0]

I agree with the thoughts of you Jim the op and this was an embarrassing performance in a must win game. I wasn’t too confident before the match of a win because of the strange atmosphere playing with no crowd. However, the problem for me was the lineup and formation which was so bad. I couldn’t believe that we were starting with Tettey on the bench, our main holding midfielder & starting with trybul with McLean was just lightweight and to have drimic on the wing was strange too. Also as we cannot defend properly & Klose was not 100 per cent fit then why didn’t we play 3-5-2 and go all out for the win playing Tettey as holding midfielder with leitner or Duda alongside. Vrancic, Buendia & Hernandez to create for Pukki & Idah. The majority of the players were clearly not motivated to play or put any effort in which should come from the mamager. For me Farke did not look motivated for this game & his comments afterwards reiterated that to me. The only players who tried to do something were the subs but the game was already over. This was a must win game and though I like Farke a lot, he got his team selection, tactics, formation badly wrong and what was just as embarrassing was that we needed the win more than Southampton but they were much more sharper, fitter and motivated to  win and play and despite the injury excuses being made to defenders there is no excuse for our players lack of effort and motivation to play. Like others on the discussion I didn’t think the break would help us and after watching tonight’s game we really do need a miracle to turn things around so quickly even though it’s still possible to get enough points to stay up, I don’t see enough fight or determination to change things. Will still be watching and remain positive that we can stay up whilst still possible but after this performance us staying up looks very unlikely now. Just wanted to add my thoughts to the discussion as a lifelong city fan even though I don’t post much on the forum.

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

5 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Are you claiming January as a good window then? Duda on loan and another mediocre German midfielder on a perm?

We're now in June 2020 and our last good transfer window was summer 2018. 

 

I was being nice but yes you are right.... 

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

5 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Where to start.  Well, not with the owners for one thing. Not with Farke either, not with the players either.  Put simply, we have had a dreadful run of injuries that has continued right up to today.  Klose not had a competitive game for a year and a half to start with, but had to use him.   Klose and Godfrey could be a great pairing - but to expect them to be at the top of form, just like that, is wishful thinking.  Klose did ok, but Southampton are a very good side, as they have proved as the season has continued.

NO team can expect to do well when they have had to make so many changes at centre back - the spine of the team is just missing a vital part of it's make up. 

I would still like Vrancic to start, but you have to see that Emi and Todd are ahead of him in their positions. Maybe he could have been on today instead of Drmic to bolster the midfield, but Farke plainly doesn't see him as a starter, for wqhatever reason.  His quality at set pieces makes - imo - any other deficiencies he might have irrelevant because set pieces are so important in the PL.

I understand the emotion of it all, it was painful to watch, but given the situation, I think it is best to not try to be too emotive about it - maybe lessons can be learned, questions answered about one or two players - and we move on.

OTBC, we are in strange times, so no disgrace from today imo, just disappointment.

No disgrace from today... Where to start.. well not with the owners? Ok....🙄

[Making Plans 936]

10 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Where to start.  Well, not with the owners for one thing. Not with Farke either, not with the players either. 

This is as far as I got.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Edited June 20, 2020 by Making Plans

[DraytonBoy 142]

I only watched the first half but after the early chance for Drmic there was only ever going to be one winner, the lack of any intensity from City was surprising given their situation, how does Farke turn this around?

[Herman 9,711]

7 hours ago, hogesar said:

Really difficult to compare because we are trying to apply a long term plan to the club where philosophy overrides instant success. Personally I'm glad to see us do this for the first time. 

Every other time it's just been doing anything we can to try and stay up and then.....do the same again. 

The theory this time, at least, is that the philosophy and style of play throughout the club should always give us a decent chance of coming up whilst also creating an easier pathway for youngsters to progress.

That's the theory and all we have to go on so far is :

- 1st champ season struggled to be effective with style of play
- 2nd champ season played the best football in division and won the league
- 1st prem season not been good enough but shown glimpses of how our style of play can be effective but lack the experience and personnel.

I'm pretty excited for the future but I know some fans see the prem as the be all and end all and nothing else matters. I mean, that soon changes when you start playing boring negative football but no one admits to that until they actually suffer it.

And whilst I'm quietly confident, I know as soon as we lose a game the Webber / Farke / Board are all useless etc comes out from certain quarters and that will never stop. I just sincerely hope the vocal minority dont do enough damage to p*ss of the likes of Webber and Farke to the point they decide to leave earlier than they would normally.

A calm and measured post is not needed here. Where's the knee-jerk, pent up rant about everything? 👍😀

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

7 hours ago, hogesar said:

Really difficult to compare because we are trying to apply a long term plan to the club where philosophy overrides instant success. Personally I'm glad to see us do this for the first time. 

Every other time it's just been doing anything we can to try and stay up and then.....do the same again. 

The theory this time, at least, is that the philosophy and style of play throughout the club should always give us a decent chance of coming up whilst also creating an easier pathway for youngsters to progress.

That's the theory and all we have to go on so far is :

- 1st champ season struggled to be effective with style of play
- 2nd champ season played the best football in division and won the league
- 1st prem season not been good enough but shown glimpses of how our style of play can be effective but lack the experience and personnel.

I'm pretty excited for the future but I know some fans see the prem as the be all and end all and nothing else matters. I mean, that soon changes when you start playing boring negative football but no one admits to that until they actually suffer it.

And whilst I'm quietly confident, I know as soon as we lose a game the Webber / Farke / Board are all useless etc comes out from certain quarters and that will never stop. I just sincerely hope the vocal minority dont do enough damage to p*ss of the likes of Webber and Farke to the point they decide to leave earlier than they would normally.

Broadly this. Much of the transfer activity in the summer, and some in the winter, was part of a longer-term plan than just staying in the Premier League this season.

That said, there are two questions over specific areas. Should we have placed so much reliance on Klose lasting a season, and on Godfrey making the step up to being a competent defender in the PL? And if we thought Tettey might not last the season was a player (Amadou) new to the intensity of English football the right answer?

I suspect in the latter case the reply from Webber would have been that we would have to have bought rather than loaned, and such a player would have cost too much.

Problems perhaps encapsulated by one of my three matches this season, at home to Wolves. A fantastic first half, with some of the most fluent football I have seen from a Norwich City team, rivaling that of the Stringer era, but only one up. Not a collapse in the second half, but a midfield and defence in the end unable to halt the Wolves resurgence.

As to those posters who  only appear here after a bad defeat and who want a change of ownership, I admire all the efforts I assume you have been making in the many days when you haven’t been posting to organize or at the least prompt a takeover, and look forward with eager anticipation to news of a billionaire’s bid.

 

[Jim Smith 2,314]

What worries me about the long term philosophy thing is it’s predicated on us improving and learning so that next time we come up (if we do) we perform better.

but I’m far from convinced we will have as good a team next time and I’m not really seeing any evidence of learning, even though we’ve had a three month break which gave us a chance to reflect and analyse the season so far. And yet last night was a performance that was basically a microcosm of every disappointing defeat we’ve had.
 

injuries to key defensive players in training - check

questionable team selection - check

decent first 15/20 minutes but don’t take chances - check
 

opposition manager makes tactical adjustment mid first half, we start getting pressed and giving the ball away in dangerous areas leaving defence exposed - check

still in it at half time but start the second half as if asleep and concede one if not two - check

no subs til a couple of goals down - check

give away another goal whilst chasing the game - check 

The strange situation is some form of mitigation for a poor performance but there is no excuse for the fact they seemed fitter and more motivated than us and the really big worry is that we appear to have learnt nothing at all from our season in this division. 

 

 

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,424]

There has been a few Jim. I agree that this felt as bad as most . The continual kamikaze runs of the full backs only to lose the ball and leave massive spaces for Soton to run into . Our central players were non existent and were over run . 
 

The form of players like Buendia worries me . Brilliant last year on the crest of success . Abject most of this as his petulance matches the mood of the game . The signings have been dire . Farke looks lost . I really do fear going back into the Champs with this mood in the camp. I would think anyone that can get out and stay in the Prem will be very keen to do so. 
 

We managed to confirm all neutral views that we have had it . In spectacular fashion. 

[dylanisabaddog 4,866]

My main issue with the game was our level of fitness. I'm no expert but even I could see they were a yard quicker than us. We made an ordinary team look very good. 

Watched Spurs v Man Utd afterwards and they both looked 2 yards quicker than us. Apart from Aurier obviously. 

[Foxy2600 297]

I’d have put the U17’s out against Crawley in the worthless cup. At least we’d have had a fit Captain and CH. I was at that match. It was like watching village football.

 

[Sooty57 403]

1 hour ago, DraytonBoy said:

 how does Farke turn this around?

I don't think he does; Championship beckons.  While the drop does not bother me too much as I never believed our squad was ready for PL. What does concern me is the total lack of heart that we appeared to show yesterday, and the fear that relegation may herald an exodus of our best young players, thus undoing all the good that has so far been achieved. I know that the club keeps saying they don't need to sell, but if the big PL clubs come in for our best young talent, then we are probably not going to be able to hang on to them. We all know that a long contract just bumps the asking price up - if a player doesn't want to be here there is no point forcing them to stay,  as it just creates tension and destroys the changing room.

[Mason 47 1,373]

Interesting how much focus is being put on 'abandoning the system that got us here', I don't see it that way at all. What I saw was the same problem that plagues us when we play 4-2-3-1 and no doubt if we ever went to 3-5-2.

Our midfield do not have the positional discipline for this level of football. As soon as the ball is won, 7 of our players charge forwards like schoolkids seeming to hope we will beat the press with a single incredible ball out of defence. It's absolutely criminal that it happens again and again and again without being addressed. We seem to want to play at a breakneck pace when there's simply no call for it.

Tactical issues aside there's no excuse for how much slower we were yesterday. We looked just as committed as we did in the Norwich v Norwich game they played and that's a cause for massive concern.

I'm not usually one for negative rants but yesterday genuinely was an unacceptable disgrace of a performance. We stick by our team but that doesn't mean we have to sit silently if they're taking the P.

[hogesar 9,615]

37 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

Interesting how much focus is being put on 'abandoning the system that got us here', I don't see it that way at all. What I saw was the same problem that plagues us when we play 4-2-3-1 and no doubt if we ever went to 3-5-2.

Our midfield do not have the positional discipline for this level of football. As soon as the ball is won, 7 of our players charge forwards like schoolkids seeming to hope we will beat the press with a single incredible ball out of defence. It's absolutely criminal that it happens again and again and again without being addressed. We seem to want to play at a breakneck pace when there's simply no call for it.

Tactical issues aside there's no excuse for how much slower we were yesterday. We looked just as committed as we did in the Norwich v Norwich game they played and that's a cause for massive concern.

I'm not usually one for negative rants but yesterday genuinely was an unacceptable disgrace of a performance. We stick by our team but that doesn't mean we have to sit silently if they're taking the P.

Cant actually disagree with any of that. Our midfield has lacked discipline all season and you would have to say whilst he isnt the best at it generally, Tettey is probably better than anyone else we have in this regard.

[Clint 221]

I think Jim has summed it up perfectly. It’s the same problems every match, which starts with the team selection.

It is universally accepted that either Vrancic or Leitner have to start with possession based style. Neither do but yet McLean starts every match. Reasonable player but not a starter every match at this level and doesn’t really suit our style of play.

Our set pieces are dire, both defending and attacking. Defending due to the persistence with zonal marking and attacking because our only decent set piece taker sits on the bench every week.

We concede an unprecedented amount of goals either just before or just after half time. This has been throughout the Farke era and not just this season. 

We have not come back from being behind in a league match this season, not even to get a draw. 

Everyone knows the issues with the lack of game management and poor use of subs so I won’t go into that. 
 

[Jim Smith 2,314]

In Farkes defence though he’s been given an impossible job. I like him and I think he is the man to take us back up but at this level he’s found it tough this year and given our lack of resources and lack of ambition, combining it with a rookie coach was always going to be a stretch 

[Yellow Fever 3,740]

12 minutes ago, Clint said:

I think Jim has summed it up perfectly. It’s the same problems every match, which starts with the team selection.

It is universally accepted that either Vrancic or Leitner have to start with possession based style. Neither do but yet McLean starts every match. Reasonable player but not a starter every match at this level and doesn’t really suit our style of play.

Our set pieces are dire, both defending and attacking. Defending due to the persistence with zonal marking and attacking because our only decent set piece taker sits on the bench every week.

We concede an unprecedented amount of goals either just before or just after half time. This has been throughout the Farke era and not just this season. 

We have not come back from being behind in a league match this season, not even to get a draw. 

Everyone knows the issues with the lack of game management and poor use of subs so I won’t go into that. 
 

 

3 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

In Farkes defence though he’s been given an impossible job. I like him and I think he is the man to take us back up but at this level he’s found it tough this year and given our lack of resources and lack of ambition, combining it with a rookie coach was always going to be a stretch 

Both very fair comments. Agree.

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

2 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

In Farkes defence though he’s been given an impossible job. I like him and I think he is the man to take us back up but at this level he’s found it tough this year and given our lack of resources and lack of ambition, combining it with a rookie coach was always going to be a stretch 

Yeah, this. I love him too, but your post further up the page about our recurring shortcomings is spot on. Ultimately, I trust Webber to make the judgement of whether DF still has the nous to pick us back up, learn on the job and get us back up again. And if Webber decides DF is not that man, I'm sure that Farke will find a good job in Germany, and Webber will find the right man to replace him.

[hogesar 9,615]

15 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

In Farkes defence though he’s been given an impossible job. I like him and I think he is the man to take us back up but at this level he’s found it tough this year and given our lack of resources and lack of ambition, combining it with a rookie coach was always going to be a stretch 

I dont think we have a lack of ambition, it's always assumed by transfer business but theres so much more to it than that which tells me long term our ambition is probably as high as it's ever been, we just aren't willing to gamble for short term success, rightly or wrongly.

But you're right in that for us to have been in a good position this season we needed everything to go right; minimal injuries, Farke to basically be prem standard immediately and a bit of luck to go with it all. We have had none.

[DraytonBoy 142]

There's much criticism of the club's recruitment, is this solely a lack of ambition or is it a case of the better players not wanting to come to Norwich?