The verminous Football Lads Alliance

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

When history is written of what happened here, a bit of grafiti is barely going to warrant a footnote. 

As Bill says, history has constantly been written to reflect one side of the story- take the plaque on the Colston statue- 'one of our wisest and most virtuous sons.' Hardly a balanced view of a man who made a lot of money from selling people into slavery.

I can't comment on why or how people didn't stop those who chose to grafiti monuments. But I know plenty of people who are fervent BLM supporters with zero interest in defacing war memorials. 

Of course History was written to suit one way. The poor slaves had no way of writing  History for themselves. But that was then. And we are wise enough to know the truth. That is why History today should be balanced. 

For instance, it will tell that during a pandemic many people took to the streets to show their support, either for BLM or to air their racist views. But that it wasn't all clear cut and their were issues that prompted debate that involved the worthiness of erecting monuments to anyone let alone for people whose past may have been distasteful to many or whether they should have been protesting when for health reasons people were not gathering in crowds.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

It is in part what the protest is about. History has been written and portrayed from one very biased side.

The attempts to redress this have been met by what we say in Whitehall on Saturday, those very uncomfortable, and strongly opposed to any light being put on that history.

The same has been played out in the Middle East where uneducated fools have been duped into believing what some 'mad mullah' has told them, and are willing to use violence against reasoned argument

Trouble is Bill, what I saw was puzzling. The whole issue boiled over when a Black man was murdered by Police. And the initial call was that it was the usual Police bias towards Black people.

And yet in the UK, we have seen the Police, the accused even in this Country, protecting and keeping apart those who oppose racism and those who nurture it.

I just feel the real and obvious issue that we are all aware of, the way the guardians of the law treat black people has been over whelmed by the thought that Britain is a racist country. And that is just not true. There are just too many people who are racist is the problem.

[Mr Angry 1,547]

46 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I guess I'd just love to know why all these people were convinced their war memorials were under threat after one (very hihg profile) monument getting some graffiti-ed by some unrepresentative morons.

As you say many of these folks may be patrotic, total non racists who are just very protective of war memorials. However I don't think it is a huge leap to suggests many of them would have been sharing a space with far right thug types who fancied a scrap and were probably very disappointed when they didn't get it.

Your argument isn't really a balanced one. If the Protesters saw these unrepresentative morons (how many until they become representative?) doing what they were doing, why didn't they stop them? The same morons climbing the cenotaph and trying to set alight the Union flag. Why did no-one stop them?

The racist mob on the other side were breaking the law. Why weren't they arrested? Perhaps the Police had been told not to provoke people who were trying to provoke others. Why?

As soon as the Churchill statue, a British Bulldog symbol if nothing else, was attacked, and then the Cenotaph, why wouldn't Memorials, seen as a symbol of Britain's colonial past, be seen as an easy target by the far right? Even officialdom seemed concerned to protect many of them.

History will be written of these events and it has to be balanced. It can't be written to suit one side of the story.

This Winston Churchill?

When Churchill returned to Downing Street in 1951, the West Indian migrant population stood at just 50,000. But the great war leader was determined to find evidence that the influx was causing “social problems.” He toyed with an election slogan “keep England white”. Civil servants were ordered to carry out a secret “race survey” in an attempt to smear Caribbean immigrants as “dole scroungers” – but there was no evidence. The 1951 Churchill government “wanted to restrict colonial immigration using a public clamour from the white working class population living alongside the Caribbean immigrants. That clamour didn’t exist but Churchill wanted to push legislation before public opinion made that shift.”

[Mark .Y. 351]

35 minutes ago, Bill said:

No, you are trying to portray the peacefully rally as being equally to blame - hence your weasel words

Never mind, have a try at spinning this

 

You really are a complete moron aren't you.

There is nothing for me to spin against this, it took place and it is despicable - no question.

Nor am I trying to blame a peaceful rally as being equally to blame - that is just you lieing again.

What I am saying is that some veterans peacefully took part in something they believed in at various locations around the country - do you deny that is true ?? 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

When Churchill returned to Downing Street in 1951, the West Indian migrant population stood at just 50,000. But the great war leader was determined to find evidence that the influx was causing “social problems.” He toyed with an election slogan “keep England white”. Civil servants were ordered to carry out a secret “race survey” in an attempt to smear Caribbean immigrants as “dole scroungers” – but there was no evidence. The 1951 Churchill government “wanted to restrict colonial immigration using a public clamour from the white working class population living alongside the Caribbean immigrants. That clamour didn’t exist but Churchill wanted to push legislation before public opinion made that shift.”

Exactly. He is known for one thing. And it appears he did a good job not appeasing Hitler but standing up to him. But apart from that, he was completely unloved and despised by the majority of the country. But he has become a symbol and icon of the far right. The stuff that Brits are made of. Stick a flag in the ground and its ours.

But that was then and wee have moved on from our Imperialist past. And until the Protesters realise they are doing more harm for their cause by persistently referring back to history, they will create a gap in society and make those of us who tend to recognise grey areas, take one side or the other. And that does mean trouble. People like Farage who pretend to be things the yaren't will gain a voice again.

[king canary 7,580]

52 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

But that was then and wee have moved on from our Imperialist past. And until the Protesters realise they are doing more harm for their cause by persistently referring back to history, they will create a gap in society and make those of us who tend to recognise grey areas, take one side or the other. And that does mean trouble. People like Farage who pretend to be things the yaren't will gain a voice again.

But have we really moved on? There are still plenty who lionise the British Empire and what we used to be- that attitude has its fingerprints all over Brexit for example. 'We're Britain, they need us more than we need them, we'll be fine on our own!'

With Churchill, there is a lot of nuance to be considered (something I don't think the harder left elements of these protests are great at understanding) but without digging into his history a bit you generally get a rosier picture painted than is reasonable.

You can only move forward when you accept your own history in my opinion- Colston is a great example again. You can't move on from the sins of the past if you refuse to even admit they happened.

[Bill 1,788]

4 minutes ago, king canary said:

You can only move forward when you accept your own history in my opinion- Colston is a great example again. You can't move on from the sins of the past if you refuse to even admit they happened.

Exactly

And what the guardians of the memorials were about was to try to assert that the past belonged to them. irrespective of how warped a picture it has been presented as

None of us are responsible for what happened centuries ago. But we do have a responsibility to understand and recognise the truth. That is not just black slavery, that is the inhumane conditions imposed on factory workers in the industrial revolution. How it was not Wellington (an Irishman) who won the battle of Waterloo with a British army.

That history is not a set of unconnected victories. That certain British people did not go to Africa to 'civilise the savages. Who probably weren't too savage until we turned up............but also recognise that just because there are those who do not want the truth brought out into the open does not mean it should not be.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

But have we really moved on? There are still plenty who lionise the British Empire and what we used to be- that attitude has its fingerprints all over Brexit for example. 'We're Britain, they need us more than we need them, we'll be fine on our own!'

With Churchill, there is a lot of nuance to be considered (something I don't think the harder left elements of these protests are great at understanding) but without digging into his history a bit you generally get a rosier picture painted than is reasonable.

You can only move forward when you accept your own history in my opinion- Colston is a great example again. You can't move on from the sins of the past if you refuse to even admit they happened.

Yes I believe the consensus in this country is that we as a Nation are mindful and aware that a lot of the wealth that a precious few gained from slavery and exploitation never came their way. And have no reason to be grateful to Colston, Pepys, Rhodes.  

And the greater majority of us have our own lives to lead and as long as no-one interferes with us then life is good. And we have no gripe with colour, religion, politic or gender preference.

 

 

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,182]

I wonder how long this statue of Lenin will last

and how long before the BBC and/or Frank Baranowski realizes he didn´t live in the 21st Century

"It's hard to put up with the fact that a dictator from the 21st Century is being placed on a pedestal and a memorial is being made out of it. Unfortunately the courts have decided otherwise, we must accept that, but not without comment."

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,182]

Nelson's statue in The Close has been vandalised 😟

[Herman 9,717]

Michael Nelson has a statue?

[Bill 1,788]

11 minutes ago, Herman said:

Michael Nelson has a statue?

must keep an eye out for that

probably not a patch on the one in Trafalgar Square

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Willie?

On the Road Again.

Edited July 7, 2020 by keelansgrandad