The verminous Football Lads Alliance

[Mr Angry 1,554]

12 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Windrush was a stark example of this. probably just an administrative c**k up at first but the time it took to realise there was a problem and response to it (until the media started to focus on it) was pathetic and would not have happened to middle class, white people.

 

If you believe the programme "Unwanted-The Secret Windrush Files" this was not an administrative c**k up but a deliberate strategy to strip the right to British citizenship of "coloureds"-firstly West Indians but then Asians-who had come from Commonwealth countries after WW Two.

According to the programme, the British Nationality Act 1948 was brought in to grant citizenship to residents of Commonwealth countries. The programme states that the intention was to protect the mainly white residents of countries like Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa but when West Indians started to arrive, politicians started to have concerns about the effect that this would have on the white population.

The programme shows papers from ministers, prime ministers and civil servants that detail the suspicions about these migrants and how to devise ways to prevent more from arriving without seeming to be racist.

Sadly, politicians from both Labour and Conservative were involved but Winston Churchill was a major driver in the early days, constantly bringing the matter back before parliament.

I would suggest watching the programme, or at least reading about it here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00068sk

 

[king canary 7,600]

1 hour ago, Fen Canary said:

Where does racial privilege exist though, in what examples? I’ll agree racism exists, the world will always have bigots, but what systems benefit a white person at the expense of a black person? 

Racism and racial privilege are sort of the same thing.

When I worked in recruitment I saw first hand how much easier it was to get someone with a white British sounding name an interview over someone with an Asian name. That is racial privilege.

 

[Bill 1,788]

1 hour ago, Fen Canary said:

'So you made all this stuff up, none of it is mentioned on thier website.

I’ll admit I have very little time for BLM, funded as it is by billionaires and whose goals include the overthrow of capitalism and abolition of the police, according to their manifesto on their website anyway '

There have been elements calling for the overthrow of capitalism as a white supremacist system, and Minneapolis have voted to disband the police as per the demands of the protestors, something thankfully the Governor had the sense to ignore. However you’re right I can’t find it on the website on their actual manifesto, I’m not entirely sure what I’ve got that mixed up with. 

Now could we go back to the original questions I asked? Otherwise this ends up as a pointless distraction 

Exposing that a main part of your arguments is a lie ..... is just a distraction ?

Why did you not check that claim first - or did you hope that it would simply not be challenged ?

And what else have you got 'mixed up' ?

And what else should we ignore as it is just a 'pointless distraction' ?

[Jim Smith 2,317]

44 minutes ago, Mr Angry said:

If you believe the programme "Unwanted-The Secret Windrush Files" this was not an administrative c**k up but a deliberate strategy to strip the right to British citizenship of "coloureds"-firstly West Indians but then Asians-who had come from Commonwealth countries after WW Two.

According to the programme, the British Nationality Act 1948 was brought in to grant citizenship to residents of Commonwealth countries. The programme states that the intention was to protect the mainly white residents of countries like Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa but when West Indians started to arrive, politicians started to have concerns about the effect that this would have on the white population.

The programme shows papers from ministers, prime ministers and civil servants that detail the suspicions about these migrants and how to devise ways to prevent more from arriving without seeming to be racist.

Sadly, politicians from both Labour and Conservative were involved but Winston Churchill was a major driver in the early days, constantly bringing the matter back before parliament.

I would suggest watching the programme, or at least reading about it here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00068sk

 

I will give it a watch but I was more referring to the more recent destruction of the records held by the Home Office of those arriving on the boats when I was referring to the administrative c*ck up. Or does that programme suggest that didn't happen? 

Either way, the recent response by the government and the authorities was not good enough.

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

3 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

So the problem is economic rather than anything race related? Accusing white people and the system of being racist is completely wrong. I’ll agree a higher proportion of black people do live in poorer households, though I’d put that down to having less inter generational wealth than any racist policies. You have to remember most have only been in Britain for a couple of generations, and the first arrivals turned up with very little in the way of money or formal education, so they simply haven’t had chance to build up wealth in the same way as a number of white families who have been here much longer. 

However a black child from a middle class household in Surrey will have much better opportunities in life than a white kid living with a single mum on a council estate in Grimsby. I’ll agree privilege exists, however I just don’t believe it’s racial

What about the black child from a council estate in Grimsby living with his or her single mum? 

Your example is flawed.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Brilliant what Rashford has done. Much needed.

Just shows the inequality in life. If you have several million followers on Snapbook and Facechat then you have a powerful lobby. I can't even get a reply from my MP to all of my emails.

[Bill 1,788]

4 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

Can anybody on here please explain to me what the BLM protests are trying to achieve? What laws do they believe favour white people over black? What systems are institutionally racist and disadvantage black people? I’ve asked these questions and as of yet have not heard a single reply on what specifically they want changing. I hear endless talk of white privilege yet no examples of what whites can do that blacks can’t. I’m genuinely interested, as the way they go on you’d think the UK was apartheid South Africa, when in reality despite much provocation in defacing statues many people think important to the nations history, the best retaliation they could get was a couple of hundred skinheads out looking for a scrap

That's because you are not black, You have no concept of what it might be like to be black.

To be made to feel you do not really belong here, to be made to feel you are only here through tolerance, not as a right. Not as an equal,

Your sh yte is the very reason so many are protesting,

And as your previous posts show you are coming from a bigoted rightwing  position. One that talks of them. Not of us... fellow human beings.

And as ever with you, there always has to be a lie or two wrapped up in misrepresentation and twisting other posters words so as to answer that instead.

There is not really a justifiable grievance or case, just a load of 'uppity ******* who are never satisfied. Because believe me I know your sort and I know how you think

A lot of ******************** who are being led astray by an evil Jew who doesn't really have your interests at heart, like master does,

Dress your hate up however you wish, and post under whatever name you like as well - but as far as I can see it doesn't matter which asole you are.... it's always the same siht

[Mr Angry 1,554]

3 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

I will give it a watch but I was more referring to the more recent destruction of the records held by the Home Office of those arriving on the boats when I was referring to the administrative c*ck up. Or does that programme suggest that didn't happen? 

Either way, the recent response by the government and the authorities was not good enough.

The programme didn't mention that and I wasn't following the story that closely when it blow up recently-I have just checked though and the decision to destroy the landing cards was made under Labour in 2009 and carried out under Conservative in 2010.

The programme did mention that part of the legislation places the burden of proof on the person who claims that they have the right to live here-they have to show that they have had a continuous right since they've been here. if that legislation was brought into force after these documents were destroyed it would perhaps put a more sinister twist on things-if the people who wrote the legislation knew that they had been destroyed.

I can't find which Act this clause was in at the moment.

 

[Bill 1,788]

A bit of background can be found here - with these telling paragraph

He said he noticed a change in approach to these cases after the announcement of the “hostile environment” policy by May, then home secretary. In 2009 and 2010, managers gave case workers and members of his team time to look into cases. “Generally speaking, most Home Office staff want to try to do the right thing and be fair, within the rules,” he said.

But from 2013 onwards, he said, staff were “given no leeway to make a judgment call”. The changed atmosphere combined with staff cuts made it a more unpleasant place to work and many experienced staff took redundancy, he said. The people who remained were told: “These are the rules, stick to them.”

means decision

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/17/home-office-destroyed-windrush-landing-cards-says-ex-staffer

 

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

5 hours ago, king canary said:

Racism and racial privilege are sort of the same thing.

When I worked in recruitment I saw first hand how much easier it was to get someone with a white British sounding name an interview over someone with an Asian name. That is racial privilege.

 

I had an uncle, sadly passed on, Hungarian , arrived in England in 1957 after the Russian invasion.  On arrival he was given a suit, a toothbrush  a cardboard suitcase  and a pound. He said there was a kind of induction day before they were released into the country.. various stuff about being british , manners etc . As he was being dropped at the train station with his  starter kit as listed above, the lady who had been his case officer or some such said to him that if he wanted to get on in England he should change his name  do everything  he could to lose  his accent, it was sound advice....... they were later married under his anglicised Name, he became a renowned Silversmith but he never lost a bit of his heavy accent to the point that we all thought he must put it  on. 

To get back on topic, his experiences of racism in England were  varied but never once was he abused for being Hungarian it was always effing frog, effing itie, effing Spic  etc   His take on it was ' if  they're too stupid to find out where you are from before they abuse you then really , then the opinions they hold is of little importance'. He was a model of tolerance despite in his youth , being a powerful man and well able to deal with any physicals... he just wouldn't.  He told me that his revulsion for violence and racial hatred  came from seeing at first hand as a child ,the full horror of what these things can do .  

I would wish a stint of digging  and filling mass graves with bodies on anyone who thinks that  someone's race , creed , colour , religion or orientation  has any relevance to their position in humanity. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

My name is also Anglicised. I think one or two syllables were dropped as well. I assume it was for one of two reasons. Either to assimilate into English life or to avoid racism.

Either way, the lack of a different colour skin never enabled anyone Jewish to avoid abuse. So hatred comes in so many forms and conditions.

[Indy 3,297]

4 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

My name is also Anglicised. I think one or two syllables were dropped as well. I assume it was for one of two reasons. Either to assimilate into English life or to avoid racism.

Either way, the lack of a different colour skin never enabled anyone Jewish to avoid abuse. So hatred comes in so many forms and conditions.

I’ve gone my entire life with my Czech surname, proud of it and it’s certainly been hard at times but nothing like other races have to put up with. Dual nationality has certainly been a benefit for me, especially working in my industry with Norwegians and Germans.

[Fen Canary 811]

7 hours ago, king canary said:

Racism and racial privilege are sort of the same thing.

When I worked in recruitment I saw first hand how much easier it was to get someone with a white British sounding name an interview over someone with an Asian name. That is racial privilege.

 

Ignoring of course numerous examples as have been highlighted in the past of organisations such as the police, where white candidates have been overlooked in favour of other races in order to bring up the levels of diversity, or even in the football league where clubs have to interview at least one candidate from an ethnic minority for any coaching post around the first team. Are these examples of racism also and should be stopped? 

As I’ve said I’ve no doubt there are racist people, but I simply don’t believe the system or our institutions are racist. You’ve no statistics to prove otherwise, merely anecdotal stories

[Mark .Y. 352]

I've just caught up with this thread and felt the need to post.

The  "copy and paste" below is from one of my oldest friends, we met when he was 16 and I was 17. He is from Glasgow and he has served in the forces since he was a kid. Like me, he has been to war for this country, and also like me he has fought alongside people from various nations and of various colours. It never bothered either of us. Please, please, please do not lump ex-veterans, to whom various statues and monuments mean a great deal, alongside thugs who are simply looking for a booze induced fight with whoever is available. To do that is absolutely the worst form of generalisation and a genuine insult to some of the finest guys in our country.

 

I am appalled by the reporting on Veterans being Right Wing Facists, agitators and looking to cause trouble. I'm currently in Liverpool working and I was kindly invited by Kingsman (name deleted) to assist in guarding Kings Regiment Monuments sacred to them in St. Johns Gardens, Liverpool. The muster was well ordered and their former RSM briefed us all on what was required and on our behaviour towards potential protesters. He made it clear that any veteran from any service which was there looking for trouble could leave now as this was not the aim of the gathering. No one drinking anything other than water. Everyone in attendance fully understood the importance of being there and what was required of them. All protesters who made their way to the location were met by applause from all assembled and polite interaction was also indulged in even to the point of protesters shaking hands and joining in on photo opportunities with the Veterans. The police were in attendance and there were zero incidents. I was proud to stand with my brothers in arms. We are not Far Right, we are citizens albeit veterans who are fed up being let down to the point that we even had to parade to safeguard things which will always hold a place in our hearts. The leaders of this great country should hang their head in shame for allowing the Fifth Estate to report with such a bias that it makes true Patriots, not the actual trouble making hard right wing groups a focal point for the less informed to believe we are the bad guys.

 

 

I saw virtually anothing of this type of behaviour in the press or on the televised news 😢

 

Rant over

   

[Fen Canary 811]

5 hours ago, Bill said:

That's because you are not black, You have no concept of what it might be like to be black.

To be made to feel you do not really belong here, to be made to feel you are only here through tolerance, not as a right. Not as an equal,

Your sh yte is the very reason so many are protesting,

And as your previous posts show you are coming from a bigoted rightwing  position. One that talks of them. Not of us... fellow human beings.

And as ever with you, there always has to be a lie or two wrapped up in misrepresentation and twisting other posters words so as to answer that instead.

There is not really a justifiable grievance or case, just a load of 'uppity ******* who are never satisfied. Because believe me I know your sort and I know how you think

A lot of ******************** who are being led astray by an evil Jew who doesn't really have your interests at heart, like master does,

Dress your hate up however you wish, and post under whatever name you like as well - but as far as I can see it doesn't matter which asole you are.... it's always the same siht

So because I’m white I’m not allowed an opinion? Even though statistics show this country is one of the most open tolerant places in the world, there’s no statistical evidence of institutional racism, in fact most studies show the worst performing demographic at schools is now working class white boys. White people are actually more likely to die in police custody once they’ve been arrested than black people etc. All of this is irrelevant to you, it’s easier to try and shut down any debate by trying to label me a bigot instead of actually debating the points. It’s already illegal in this country to discriminate on the basis of race, as well as a number of other things such as gender and sexual orientation. If there is widespread discrimination against black people why isn’t it being reported? What exactly is it that you want the government to do? 

[Mr Angry 1,554]

10 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

or even in the football league where clubs have to interview at least one candidate from an ethnic minority for any coaching post around the first team.

Not true unfortunately as reported in the BBC-if you already have a preferred choice you don’t have to draw up a shortlist and therefore don’t have to interview any candidates. Not sure if this is for any coaching position, only managerial positions are mentioned here.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53058392

[Bill 1,788]

The question is why they were gullible enough to believe there was any threat to war memorials. One cretin defacing the Cenotaph is not representative of the BLM and wider movement.

And 'look at our medals; would have been better served asking why so many ex-servicemen will be back on the streets once they are shortly turfed out of temporary housing.

Why the children of so many who served and died in WW2 were treated, and still are, so badly.  Were there any ex servicemen marching in recognition of the Indian and Pakistan troops who served in the war. No, I suspect those who turned up saw those on the right as their fellows in arms - and the 'enemy' as those who may have thought that in death there were securing a more equal world for their children, grandchildren.

To my mind, too many were there to show which side of the fence they stood on - and any guilt or comment is a reflection where they choose to position themselves.

[Fen Canary 811]

18 minutes ago, Bill said:

The question is why they were gullible enough to believe there was any threat to war memorials. One cretin defacing the Cenotaph is not representative of the BLM and wider movement.

And 'look at our medals; would have been better served asking why so many ex-servicemen will be back on the streets once they are shortly turfed out of temporary housing.

Why the children of so many who served and died in WW2 were treated, and still are, so badly.  Were there any ex servicemen marching in recognition of the Indian and Pakistan troops who served in the war. No, I suspect those who turned up saw those on the right as their fellows in arms - and the 'enemy' as those who may have thought that in death there were securing a more equal world for their children, grandchildren.

To my mind, too many were there to show which side of the fence they stood on - and any guilt or comment is a reflection where they choose to position themselves.

So protestors tried to burn the Union Flag at the Cenotaph, and the statue of our most famous wartime leader was vandalised, and you’re telling people they’re stupid to believe other war memorials wouldn’t be targeted? Whilst it may have been one person on the Cenotaph itself, their actions were being cheered by all those who were watching him, and nobody in that crowd made an effort to stop him. So I don’t believe it’s only a single cretin giving the movement a bad name. Whenever anybody else on here has stated that the bulk of those out protecting the statues/memorials were decent people who were let down by the actions of a few drunk skinheads that went looking for violence, you’re quick to jump on them as trying to downplay the motives of those involved. However you’re guilty of the exact same thing towards the BLM protestors 

[Fen Canary 811]

2 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

My name is also Anglicised. I think one or two syllables were dropped as well. I assume it was for one of two reasons. Either to assimilate into English life or to avoid racism.

Either way, the lack of a different colour skin never enabled anyone Jewish to avoid abuse. So hatred comes in so many forms and conditions.

I’d wager large numbers of those marching were the same hard left middle class Momentum supporters whose views got the Labour Party investigated for Anti Semitism. 

[Fen Canary 811]

3 hours ago, Mr Angry said:

The programme didn't mention that and I wasn't following the story that closely when it blow up recently-I have just checked though and the decision to destroy the landing cards was made under Labour in 2009 and carried out under Conservative in 2010.

The programme did mention that part of the legislation places the burden of proof on the person who claims that they have the right to live here-they have to show that they have had a continuous right since they've been here. if that legislation was brought into force after these documents were destroyed it would perhaps put a more sinister twist on things-if the people who wrote the legislation knew that they had been destroyed.

I can't find which Act this clause was in at the moment.

 

I believe the Windrush scandal was Home Office incompetence from a government that had made lots of promises on cutting immigration numbers that it knew it couldn’t keep. It therefore made a big show of tightening the rules, and those poor people were shamefully harassed and deported. It should never have happened, however I don’t believe they were deported because of the colour of their skin

[Bill 1,788]

Truly disturbing - watch the various clips, especially 1

https://www.indy100.com/article/black-lives-matter-protest-trump-supporters-bethel-ohio-video-9568621

[Fen Canary 811]

7 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

What about the black child from a council estate in Grimsby living with his or her single mum? 

Your example is flawed.

Then that child would also have much less opportunity in life than the middle class child from a nice area. 

[Bill 1,788]

6 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

I believe the Windrush scandal was Home Office incompetence from a government that had made lots of promises on cutting immigration numbers that it knew it couldn’t keep. It therefore made a big show of tightening the rules, and those poor people were shamefully harassed and deported. It should never have happened, however I don’t believe they were deported because of the colour of their skin

yeh, it was just coincidence that the same harassment didn't happen to those from South Africa, Zimbabwe, Australia, Canada etc

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I do wish that when there are panels they would get their ducks in order to make their point.

On SKY News during the debate it was pointed out that the black population in Britain was about 3%.

A contributor, trying to make a point on prejudice said that in here profession, advertising, there were less than 5% black people in the top jobs.

And the panel acknowledged that there are laws on racism but blamed the police for much of the systemic racism in the UK. That does present a paradox. The same people who are charged with seeing that the law is obeyed are the ones ignoring it.

The program pointed out that there was only 1% of Black Judges. I really do hope that my belief that Judges are impartial by nature is not wrong or our justice system really is in trouble.

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

9 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Shows you how naive I am Sam, I didn't realise Terminally Yellow (is that his football club or spine) was calling me a racist.

I do find it strange that some posters attack people without knowing anything about them. Not knowing that my Step Father in Law is from Mauritius or that I have Black friends. Or what faith I may have been brought up with, but since discarded.

That's because I didn't call you racist, nor ever intended to imply it. What I have said in response to your asking for suggestions how we tackle racism is to just stop being racist. I suggested it isn't that hard - a large portion of people go their entire lives without once being racist.

In later posts, I suggested that generations that have gone before are responsible for a lot of our problems. Again, this is not a go at you, just an observation. 

For what it's worth, I agree with your comment that generations gone by have much greater levels of respect and tolerance than those of my and younger generations.

And FYI I'm the sort of person that will call you a racist if I think you are a racist. Even in your naivety you would not miss that. 

Edited June 16, 2020 by Terminally Yellow

[Herman 9,754]

1 hour ago, Mark .Y. said:

I've just caught up with this thread and felt the need to post.

The  "copy and paste" below is from one of my oldest friends, we met when he was 16 and I was 17. He is from Glasgow and he has served in the forces since he was a kid. Like me, he has been to war for this country, and also like me he has fought alongside people from various nations and of various colours. It never bothered either of us. Please, please, please do not lump ex-veterans, to whom various statues and monuments mean a great deal, alongside thugs who are simply looking for a booze induced fight with whoever is available. To do that is absolutely the worst form of generalisation and a genuine insult to some of the finest guys in our country.

 

I am appalled by the reporting on Veterans being Right Wing Facists, agitators and looking to cause trouble. I'm currently in Liverpool working and I was kindly invited by Kingsman (name deleted) to assist in guarding Kings Regiment Monuments sacred to them in St. Johns Gardens, Liverpool. The muster was well ordered and their former RSM briefed us all on what was required and on our behaviour towards potential protesters. He made it clear that any veteran from any service which was there looking for trouble could leave now as this was not the aim of the gathering. No one drinking anything other than water. Everyone in attendance fully understood the importance of being there and what was required of them. All protesters who made their way to the location were met by applause from all assembled and polite interaction was also indulged in even to the point of protesters shaking hands and joining in on photo opportunities with the Veterans. The police were in attendance and there were zero incidents. I was proud to stand with my brothers in arms. We are not Far Right, we are citizens albeit veterans who are fed up being let down to the point that we even had to parade to safeguard things which will always hold a place in our hearts. The leaders of this great country should hang their head in shame for allowing the Fifth Estate to report with such a bias that it makes true Patriots, not the actual trouble making hard right wing groups a focal point for the less informed to believe we are the bad guys.

 

 

I saw virtually anothing of this type of behaviour in the press or on the televised news 😢

 

Rant over

   

As was mentioned earlier in the thread this is all part of these stupid culture wars that the government are pushing on us and it has followed on from the brexit mess, They want us to be arguing and falling out on these issues rather than keeping an eye on what they are doing.

Sadly the few idiots at the BLM march have played into the government's hands. Vandalising important statues in London has helped  rile up people, some with genuine concern like the veterans. Johnson, Cummings and a friendly press make it out to be bigger problem than it is and angry people unnecessarily come out on the streets.

So why do they do it? For starters the BLM message gets lost, people are distracted away from the government's awful handling of the Covid disaster and the British people are further divided into theirdiffering camps. They are following what Orban has done, Erdogan is doing and what Trump is trying to do. (We even get the Soros bs that Orban uses.)

 

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

3 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Either to assimilate into English life or to avoid racism.

Bit of both I should imagine. At times I should imagine it must have been a case of  ' make yourself as small a target as possible '. 

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

You're  on blinding form tonight Hermano !  No nails left to hit. Job done.

6 minutes ago, Herman said:

As was mentioned earlier in the thread this is all part of these stupid culture wars that the government are pushing on us and it has followed on from the brexit mess, They want us to be arguing and falling out on these issues rather than keeping an eye on what they are doing.

Sadly the few idiots at the BLM march have played into the government's hands. Vandalising important statues in London has helped  rile up people, some with genuine concern like the veterans. Johnson, Cummings and a friendly press make it out to be bigger problem than it is and angry people unnecessarily come out on the streets.

So why do they do it? For starters the BLM message gets lost, people are distracted away from the government's awful handling of the Covid disaster and the British people are further divided into theirdiffering camps. They are following what Orban has done, Erdogan is doing and what Trump is trying to do. (We even get the Soros bs that Orban uses.)

 

 

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

Just now, wcorkcanary said:

You're  on blinding form tonight Hermano !  No nails left to hit. Job done.

 

 

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

Wont say it a third time. 👍