Herman 9,584 Posted June 12, 2020 I see the PM is indulging in the old culture wars. I'm not sure what he is trying to distract attention away from.... oh..... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wcorkcanary 4,314 Posted June 12, 2020 1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said: Anne Wafula Strike, says she is the only black on representative boards in sport. She asks who will represent black athletes? Surely if we are all the same apart from skin colour, then it doesn't matter. I'm not sure if positive discrimination is the answer. It won't stop someone from hating someone else. Agree , ive never been comfortable with positive discrimination. Whether the bias is racial, gender or disability.... there has to be a better way. The cynic in me would call it Tokenism while the more benevolent side of me can appreciate why its done , but to say that we ' must have' just doesnt seem right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,584 Posted June 13, 2020 15 hours ago, nutty nigel said: Should we remove Penny Lane from the Magical Mystery Tour? They are looking into it. https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/slavery-museum-re-evaluating-penny-18409316 (If anybody visits Liverpool this museum is well worth a few hours of your time.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A Load of Squit 5,066 Posted June 13, 2020 16 hours ago, nutty nigel said: Should we remove Penny Lane from the Magical Mystery Tour? The song is about a barber, a banker, a fireman and a nurse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill 1,788 Posted June 13, 2020 However much folk might wish to laugh at the simple righties they are determined to put up a good show in today's March on London Here they can be seen in training Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wcorkcanary 4,314 Posted June 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said: So anyone who you deem 'right wing' is by clear implication a **** then? You've perfectly summed up the hypocritical and hysterical clap trap that comes out of 'lefty' mouths like yours. Pay no mind to the Gibberwocky....he's a liar and a coward. Some of us ' lefties ' are actually quite reasonable humans. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nuff Said 4,938 Posted June 13, 2020 15 hours ago, wcorkcanary said: Agree , ive never been comfortable with positive discrimination. Whether the bias is racial, gender or disability.... there has to be a better way. The cynic in me would call it Tokenism while the more benevolent side of me can appreciate why its done , but to say that we ' must have' just doesnt seem right. I read this quote a while ago and it stayed with me (no-one seems to know where it originally came from): When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression. It’s a useful balance when I feel threatened by attempts to counteract bias in whatever form they take. I recognise that instinctive reaction that positive discrimination isn’t the right way to fix things like a racial or sexual bias, but until someone comes up with something better, that’s what we have. If you look at the results of things like removing identifying names from job applications and how the proportion of successful ethic applicants significantly increases, it shows that sadly these sorts of biases really do still exist and we have to work on every possible way of mitigating and eventually hopefully eliminating them. Again, I don’t who said this but it resonated with me: 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wcorkcanary 4,314 Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Nuff Said said: I read this quote a while ago and it stayed with me (no-one seems to know where it originally came from): When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression. It’s a useful balance when I feel threatened by attempts to counteract bias in whatever form they take. I recognise that instinctive reaction that positive discrimination isn’t the right way to fix things like a racial or sexual bias, but until someone comes up with something better, that’s what we have. If you look at the results of things like removing identifying names from job applications and how the proportion of successful ethic applicants significantly increases, it shows that sadly these sorts of biases really do still exist and we have to work on every possible way of mitigating and eventually hopefully eliminating them. Again, I don’t who said this but it resonated with me: Fear not Nuffo , I am well aware how privileged I am. I am mostly white ,(1/8) West Bengali, have a very English name and was fortunate enough to be born in the UK, whats more , I now live in a very beautiful place where if you want to work, there is work to be done. I have no answers to the problems of the world just a commitment not to make them any worse. I am not defending my ' privilege ' ,it just is. I do not deny the inequality in the world and I have no idea how to solve it , I will though support any idea that serves to address it. Positive discrimination is one of those ideas that although I am not 100% convinced by , I have no coherent argument against. So by my personal reckoning it's ok, but I'm not sure it'll really work. PS I am now convinced however, that Bill is a liar and a coward, not human enough to apologise for what is, I feel and have been advised, a very serious accusation. Edited June 13, 2020 by wcorkcanary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,584 Posted June 13, 2020 What an absolute load of bilge. You apologise for sweeping generalisations and then proceed to make the most ridiculous sweeping generalistions. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill 1,788 Posted June 13, 2020 22 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said: PS I am now convinced however, that Bill is a liar and a coward, not human enough to apologise for what is, I feel and have been advised, a very serious accusation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wcorkcanary 4,314 Posted June 13, 2020 you become more Boris/trump alike each day....deflect with your ridiculous theory that I am van wink rather that address the fact that you were mistaken ( or lied) and cannot face the humiliation of a climb down. Soldier on Billy Liar. Each passing day makes you look evermore pathetic. Ok , I have arrangements with friends( will explain to you later what friends are) that will be much more satisfying than watching you squirm , deny and deflect. I can only waste a small portion of my day on you....as, to be fair , you are pretty irrelevant. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigFish 1,975 Posted June 13, 2020 46 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said: You're absolutely right WC and I apologise for appearing to stoop to the level of Quasi in my generalisation of 'lefties'. It's the hypocrisy of the modern, trendy, politically correct types that I object to. In their eyes the only form of racism is perpetuated by Whites and even then only British and American whites at that. Ask them to comment on the appalling treatment of the Uyghur Muslims by China and they fall silent. Why? Because China is a Communist state and (ultimately) their heroes. In the politically correct, liberal world 'repression' is an outrage if it can be linked to Britain or America but is airbrushed out of their impressionable minds if it comes from China or any Middle Eastern country (especially those that like Israel have the temerity to side with the 'Great Satan'). Ok, so that makes it ok that the UK has instituitions that are racist, that BAME do not have the same life chances as other members of the population, that we have statues without context of slavers/murderers/pirates/thieves and that people who have been in the UK half a century, paid their taxes, contributed etc should have their lives destroyed by the state. That seems to be what you are saying. Or perhaps we should do something about this? It is a moral choice afterall, a question of right or wrong. To do nothing is an immoral choice, to post rejecting action against injustice is a immoral choice, to post culture war tripe and deflection is an immoral choice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wcorkcanary 4,314 Posted June 13, 2020 1 hour ago, yellowrider120 said: You're absolutely right WC and I apologise for appearing to stoop to the level of Quasi in my generalisation of 'lefties'. It's the hypocrisy of the modern, trendy, politically correct types that I object to. In their eyes the only form of racism is perpetuated by Whites and even then only British and American whites at that. Ask them to comment on the appalling treatment of the Uyghur Muslims by China and they fall silent. Why? Because China is a Communist state and (ultimately) their heroes. In the politically correct, liberal world 'repression' is an outrage if it can be linked to Britain or America but is airbrushed out of their impressionable minds if it comes from China or any Middle Eastern country (especially those that like Israel have the temerity to side with the 'Great Satan'). Whataboutery. Problems are problems . Two wrongs dont make a right....except in electon theory( christ I hope I'm right about that bit). We cannot solve the past, but it might just be possible to improve the future. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,584 Posted June 13, 2020 Well it looks like the FLA have turned up in London, with no social distancing, to "protect a statue" that is already covered up, against an "enemy" that called off their demo, and are now attacking the police that they were calling brave last week. Do ypu get the feeling that some of them are just making up excuses because they want a punch up? 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wcorkcanary 4,314 Posted June 13, 2020 10 minutes ago, Herman said: Well it looks like the FLA have turned up in London, with no social distancing, to "protect a statue" that is already covered up, against an "enemy" that called off their demo, and are now attacking the police that they were calling brave last week. Do ypu get the feeling that some of them are just making up excuses because they want a punch up? Thugs gonna thug Hermano , they know no better. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keelansgrandad 6,679 Posted June 13, 2020 Seems crazy that the protests emanated from Police cruelty and ultimately murder of a man, a black man. Now in London, the Police are the good guys keeping apart groups of protesters from left and right. Of course the FLA have no other intention other than cause trouble whereas the other group contains just a minority with the same intention. I wonder what will happen when 5 o'clock comes around. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,584 Posted June 13, 2020 There are no other protests in London today KG. It's just far right groups kicking off about nothing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Surfer 1,547 Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) On 08/06/2020 at 14:36, Herman said: The FLA can take their plastic patriotism and sod off. It's not patriotism. There is a certain element in every society addicted to violence. A similar group of people to those that joined Hilter's SA - the brown shirts and terrorized Jewish Germans. Yes they wrap themselves in the flag, but let's not pretend they are there to "protect" anything. I wonder what Pritti Patel will say about the weekend's violence? Edited June 13, 2020 by Surfer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nuff Said 4,938 Posted June 13, 2020 Nuff said 1 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keelansgrandad 6,679 Posted June 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Herman said: There are no other protests in London today KG. It's just far right groups kicking off about nothing. There is one group at Hyde Park. Apparently they didn't want the right wing to get the headlines. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Angry 1,512 Posted June 13, 2020 10 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said: Please clarify how my remarks are .....'the most ridiculous sweeping generalisations'. Do you deny what the Chinese are doing to those Muslims then? How about having marches organised to condemn that? I'm waiting. Let’s fix things at home first? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,584 Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said: There is one group at Hyde Park. Apparently they didn't want the right wing to get the headlines. I'm sure they did that yesterday so as to avoid any bad trouble. Sorry, you are right. Just seen a video of a few at Embankment. Edited June 13, 2020 by Herman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sonyc 5,447 Posted June 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Surfer said: It's not patriotism. There is a certain element in every society addicted to violence. A similar group of people to those that joined Hilter's SA - the brown shirts and terrorized Jewish Germans. Yes they wrap themselves in the flag, but let's not pretend they are there to "protect" anything. I wonder what Pritti Patel will say about the weekend's violence? I expect Pritti Patel might say very little. Might be wrong, hope I'm wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keelansgrandad 6,679 Posted June 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, Herman said: I'm sure they did that yesterday so as to avoid any bad trouble. Sky news cameras were with them. Not sure how many but a spokesman for them said it had been organised once the BLM demo was changed. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,584 Posted June 13, 2020 34 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said: Please clarify how my remarks are .....'the most ridiculous sweeping generalisations'. Do you deny what the Chinese are doing to those Muslims then? How about having marches organised to condemn that? I'm waiting. "Why? Because China is a Communist state and (ultimately) their heroes." That one for starters. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sonyc 5,447 Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) 42 minutes ago, sonyc said: I expect Pritti Patel might say very little. Might be wrong, hope I'm wrong. She has said of protesters that they have shown "absolute thuggery" earlier today. Interesting to see what Boris Johnson says about these idiots 'defending' their heroes with attacks in the police. Lines are being drawn aren't they across many areas of society... Edited June 13, 2020 by sonyc 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,655 Posted June 13, 2020 There was always going to be a group of people in this country who will take offence to the defacing ..or threat of defacing of statues of figures such as Churchill and Nelson....or the burning of flags at the cenotaph. To think otherwise would be naive. Tomorrow England were due to play Croatia at Wembley in Euro 2020....having been to a few England games including away, and witnessing some of the type of people these occasions draw out....It would have been 'interesting' to say the least in London this weekend if that was still taking place. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill 1,788 Posted June 13, 2020 Makes ya prahd t' be a rightie protect ancient statues, but pi ss next to a memorial to a police officer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C Goodenough 5 Posted June 13, 2020 19 minutes ago, Bill said: Makes ya prahd t' be a rightie protect ancient statues, but pi ss next to a memorial to a police officer I'd think it is a 'rightie' but couldnt be sure? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill 1,788 Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) https://twitter.com/i/status/1271804427733778434 check the 2nd clip Edited June 13, 2020 by Bill Share this post Link to post Share on other sites