Premier League restarting

[HairyTeeth 16]

11 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

They've got a meeting on 8th June to decide what to do.

 

Why June 8th? A lot of Championship clubs are getting angry as they want to know whats going on. If they were going ahead they would of said by now.

If they dont finish then they might invite the top 3 to the EPL but how can there be relegation if we finish?

I havent got any issue if both leagues finish as that is the rules but if 1 season finishes and the other doesnt then you cant congratulate/punish teams based on that narrative.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

9 minutes ago, HairyTeeth said:

Why June 8th? A lot of Championship clubs are getting angry as they want to know whats going on. If they were going ahead they would of said by now.

If they dont finish then they might invite the top 3 to the EPL but how can there be relegation if we finish?

I havent got any issue if both leagues finish as that is the rules but if 1 season finishes and the other doesnt then you cant congratulate/punish teams based on that narrative.

If the premier league finishes then in my view there will be relegation. I find it hard to see how anyone could legally challenge that. The line from the EFL will be that its up to them how they "complete" their season. It would be galling but I'm not sure what anyone could do about it. We would not be able to argue we have suffered harm/loss and don't deserve to go down (assuming we were in the bottom three) we would just be arguing that x don't deserve to come up.

Relegation on PPG is, however, a different matter, especially if the season were curtailed with several games remaining. In that regard, it is interesting that whilst the reports say clubs have agreed for the table to be finalised using PPG there is no mention of relegation in the press reports doing the rounds. That may be deliberate but the danger is that the authorities get these measures voted through step by step and you weaken your position if you do not consistently oppose these things, For example, once the principle of settling the table using PPG is established and accepted is the argument against using it to decide relegation weakened?

[HairyTeeth 16]

2 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

If the premier league finishes then in my view there will be relegation. I find it hard to see how anyone could legally challenge that. The line from the EFL will be that its up to them how they "complete" their season. It would be galling but I'm not sure what anyone could do about it. We would not be able to argue we have suffered harm/loss and don't deserve to go down (assuming we were in the bottom three) we would just be arguing that x don't deserve to come up.

Relegation on PPG is, however, a different matter, especially if the season were curtailed with several games remaining. In that regard, it is interesting that whilst the reports say clubs have agreed for the table to be finalised using PPG there is no mention of relegation in the press reports doing the rounds. That may be deliberate but the danger is that the authorities get these measures voted through step by step and you weaken your position if you do not consistently oppose these things, For example, once the principle of settling the table using PPG is established and accepted is the argument against using it to decide relegation weakened?

You have raised some valid points there. I can see the argument if the EPL finishes there should be relegation as long as we do play our 19 home and 19 away games as stated in the EPL contract when we earned Promotion.

But a team could get replaced by a team who have 64 points with 9 games left in the Championship. I think the teams will have a very big say in that who are just below Fulham and the teams that get relegated. Imagine getting promoted to the EPL on 64 points that would be an absolute disgrace. 

The Championship has to finish otherwise there will be court cases galore and Promotion and Relegation still stands if 1 league finishes and 1 dont.

If we finish in the bottom 3 if season finishes or not why should we hand over our EPL shares to a team that hasnt earnt it?

[dylanisabaddog 4,870]

20 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

So what happens if one team is missing 7 players due to coronavirus, and another is missing 0?

Also, what happens if a player tests positive after full contact training... does the whole squad have to self-isolate for 14 days? 

Then after that 14 days they have to play a match after training in their back gardens, against a team that is doing real training at their training ground?

Can't fully wrap my head around it really. 

 

That is the big question. Adrian Chiles has just interviewed an 'expert' on Radio 5 who said that even if one player gets a Track and Trace phone call then the whole squad would probably have to self isolate for 14 days. Apparently the EPL statement doesn't cover this scenario. I assume the players will be told to be careful but it looks like an accident waiting to happen. 

Bearing in mind what happened with Cummings I very much doubt the Government will grant any dispensation for football 

[ricardo 7,347]

They seem determined to push this through regardless. The money is obviously the main factor here so barring some disaster we are going to see the season completed. 

Contriving a finish to the other leagues by ppg will cause all sorts of unfairness but it seems the powers that be would rather do that than just draw a line under the season.

[Barry Brockes 145]

I was with you Ricardo in not believing that we would ever get to this point but money doesn't just talk it shouts and for the last few weeks it's been obvious this will happen. The EFL have never had any intention to complete the Championship and that does stick in the gullet. Presumably the EPL and EFL believe they're on solid ground with the way it's going but it stinks. 

[Midlands Yellow 3,938]

This is not ideal but so much better than pretending the season shouldn’t finish without relegations or promotions. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

This is not ideal but so much better than pretending the season shouldn’t finish without relegations or promotions. 

It is a better way but far from ideal. If a team has one person testing positive the chances are at least four teams will have to isolate their whole squad for 14 days. That is assuming teams play twice a week. And that could repeat and repeat.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

1 hour ago, ricardo said:

They seem determined to push this through regardless. The money is obviously the main factor here so barring some disaster we are going to see the season completed. 

Contriving a finish to the other leagues by ppg will cause all sorts of unfairness but it seems the powers that be would rather do that than just draw a line under the season.

I don't think there was ever any doubt the EPL would try to finish the season, for financial reasons apart from anything else. Morality was never going to be a factor. And the new chief executive would hardly have wanted his first season in charge to end up as a footballing and financial black hole!

The question always was, and still is, whether the virus would disrupt things so much the season ended up being cancelled because it was logistically impossible to carry on.

So far the chronology is working in the EPL's favour. There is still time to complete, the death toll is down, comparitively few players/staff are testing positive, and they have the Bundesliga as a kind of canary in the mineshaft, with no great problems detected there. But that could still change for the worse, given that the season is scheduled to run into August.

[Disco Dales Jockstrap 1,891]

6 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

If a team has one person testing positive the chances are at least four teams will have to isolate their whole squad for 14 days. That is assuming teams play twice a week. And that could repeat and repeat.

Why would the whole squad need to isolate?

They are all getting tested at least twice a week. If a player is positive, they isolate. The rest of the squad wouldn't need to as they will have also been tested and will have come back negative.

On top of that they are doing daily temperature and medical checks.

As long as it is safe to do so, it's time to decide our fate on the pitch - if that means relegation, so be it but I'd rather go down fighting than with a PPG whimper.

OTBC

[ron obvious 1,501]

2 minutes ago, Disco Dales Jockstrap said:

Why would the whole squad need to isolate?

They are all getting tested at least twice a week. If a player is positive, they isolate. The rest of the squad wouldn't need to as they will have also been tested and will have come back negative.

On top of that they are doing daily temperature and medical checks.

As long as it is safe to do so, it's time to decide our fate on the pitch - if that means relegation, so be it but I'd rather go down fighting than with a PPG whimper.

OTBC

I thought if you came into contact with anyone who'd had the virus you had to isolate for 14 days? Haven't seen anything about a negative test for yourself affecting things.

[ron obvious 1,501]

If the EFL don't complete & the bottom 3 in the EPL get relegated & replaced by 3 from the EFL I would expect a sh!tload of litigation to ensue.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

3 minutes ago, Disco Dales Jockstrap said:

Why would the whole squad need to isolate?

They are all getting tested at least twice a week. If a player is positive, they isolate. The rest of the squad wouldn't need to as they will have also been tested and will have come back negative.

On top of that they are doing daily temperature and medical checks.

As long as it is safe to do so, it's time to decide our fate on the pitch - if that means relegation, so be it but I'd rather go down fighting than with a PPG whimper.

OTBC

The Government mentioned nothing about second tests. They said if a test is positive, the T&T would phone anyone who has been in contact and tell them to isolate. surely that means it has nothing to do with a second test as testing isn't conclusive.

[DraytonBoy 142]

If the PL starts again then relegation has to happen even if the season is subsequently ended without being completed and this has to be accepted and agreed before any games are played. This does of course give the EFL an opportunity not to restart but everything I've seen indicates that as far as the Championship is concerned they intend to finish the season and what happens in L1 and L2 has no bearing on the PL anyway.

[Disco Dales Jockstrap 1,891]

2 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

I thought if you came into contact with anyone who'd had the virus you had to isolate for 14 days? Haven't seen anything about a negative test for yourself affecting things.

Well, if you test negative...you haven't got it! Why would you need to isolate? Why bother testing anyone if you aren't going to take heed of the results?

OTBC

[Disco Dales Jockstrap 1,891]

1 minute ago, keelansgrandad said:

The Government mentioned nothing about second tests. They said if a test is positive, the T&T would phone anyone who has been in contact and tell them to isolate. surely that means it has nothing to do with a second test as testing isn't conclusive.

Hello Keelansgrandad,

I'm not sure why you are talking about 2nd tests? You've lost me a bit there.

If someone has a test and they are negative, why would they isolate? Players are being regularly tested - the public as a whole aren't.

...and if testing is really that inconclusive, why is any country in the world bothering?

I just think that we all need to move on - it's happening, whether we like it or not.

OTBC

[ron obvious 1,501]

Just now, Disco Dales Jockstrap said:

Well, if you test negative...you haven't got it! Why would you need to isolate? Why bother testing anyone if you aren't going to take heed of the results?

OTBC

I don't know. Could here be a delay factor? I thought the track & trace didn't take the contact being tested into account. Just looking at the rules squire 😊

[Disco Dales Jockstrap 1,891]

Just now, ron obvious said:

I don't know. Could here be a delay factor? I thought the track & trace didn't take the contact being tested into account. Just looking at the rules squire 😊

Hello Ron,

Thanks for your reply.

The players and staff are in a unique situation as they are being regularly tested (at least twice a week) and are having daily medical checks - something that's not happening to us regular punters; that's one of the main reasons they are able to re-start the season. If they didn't have the testing and checks in place, whole squads would indeed have to isolate and the season would be impossible to complete.

OTBC

[Midlands Yellow 3,938]

1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

This is not ideal but so much better than pretending the season shouldn’t finish without relegations or promotions. 

It is a better way but far from ideal. If a team has one person testing positive the chances are at least four teams will have to isolate their whole squad for 14 days. That is assuming teams play twice a week. And that could repeat and repeat.

So far so good in Germany though and hopefully  we can replicate their way of finishing the season.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, Disco Dales Jockstrap said:

Hello Keelansgrandad,

I'm not sure why you are talking about 2nd tests? You've lost me a bit there.

If someone has a test and they are negative, why would they isolate? Players are being regularly tested - the public as a whole aren't.

...and if testing is really that inconclusive, why is any country in the world bothering?

I just think that we all need to move on - it's happening, whether we like it or not.

OTBC

DDJ

I think we are at cross purposes here.

When I say second test, I was referring to players being tested regularly. 

I have spoken to several people and they believe if any player tests positive now test and trace is in operation, that like anyone else, any person in contact with that person must isolate.

I have no problem with them playing if they want to but do think it is unecessary.

[dsr-burnley 25]

39 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

DDJ

I think we are at cross purposes here.

When I say second test, I was referring to players being tested regularly. 

I have spoken to several people and they believe if any player tests positive now test and trace is in operation, that like anyone else, any person in contact with that person must isolate.

I have no problem with them playing if they want to but do think it is unecessary.

"Track and trace" is for people who have been in close contact with a coronavirus sufferer for 15 minutes.  It doesn't apply to brief contact - so for example, if one of the staff at Sainsbury's gets coronavirus it does not mean closing the whole store and isolating all the staff and customers.  Only those who have been in prolonged contact.  (Sat next to him on the bus, say.)

[A Load of Squit 5,130]

9 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

"Track and trace" is for people who have been in close contact with a coronavirus sufferer for 15 minutes.  It doesn't apply to brief contact - so for example, if one of the staff at Sainsbury's gets coronavirus it does not mean closing the whole store and isolating all the staff and customers.  Only those who have been in prolonged contact.  (Sat next to him on the bus, say.)

So if we man to man mark a player during a game does that count?

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

2 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

"Track and trace" is for people who have been in close contact with a coronavirus sufferer for 15 minutes.  It doesn't apply to brief contact - so for example, if one of the staff at Sainsbury's gets coronavirus it does not mean closing the whole store and isolating all the staff and customers.  Only those who have been in prolonged contact.  (Sat next to him on the bus, say.)

I think a football match is long enough.

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

I think a football match is long enough.

Maybe break the game up into 6 periods of 15 mins   each  3 weeks apart to enable full  clearance from any possible cross contamination. 

[Capt. Pants 4,195]

I would have thought the results of an actual test would take precedent over some spurious isolation rule, otherwise there's no point doing the tests.

Either you have the virus or you don't?

[Making Plans 936]

No chance of our defenders catching it then

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

6 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

So if we man to man mark a player during a game does that count?

 

We dont man  mark Squito .

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

2 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

I would have thought the results of an actual test would take precedent over some spurious isolation rule, otherwise there's no point doing the tests.

Either you have the virus or you don't?

The testing is inconclusive. And it only tells you that you probably don't have it when tested.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

16 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

I don't think there was ever any doubt the EPL would try to finish the season, for financial reasons apart from anything else. Morality was never going to be a factor. And the new chief executive would hardly have wanted his first season in charge to end up as a footballing and financial black hole!

The question always was, and still is, whether the virus would disrupt things so much the season ended up being cancelled because it was logistically impossible to carry on.

So far the chronology is working in the EPL's favour. There is still time to complete, the death toll is down, comparitively few players/staff are testing positive, and they have the Bundesliga as a kind of canary in the mineshaft, with no great problems detected there. But that could still change for the worse, given that the season is scheduled to run into August.

They do say if you're going to steal, steal from the best, so I should feel honoured. The Guardian this morning:

Germany may already have dropped the canary down the mineshaft but what we don’t know still far outweighs what we do. We don’t know how much time will be required to build proper match fitness and how sharp any increased injury risk will be as a result. We don’t know the extent to which BAME players are being put disproportionately at risk. We don’t know when fans will return, or even whether they will return in anything like the same numbers.

Actually the whole piece is worth a read; even accounting for its blatant plagiarism:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2020/may/30/premier-league-restart-spectre-financial-catastrophe

 

[Jim Smith 2,314]

17 hours ago, DraytonBoy said:

If the PL starts again then relegation has to happen even if the season is subsequently ended without being completed and this has to be accepted and agreed before any games are played. This does of course give the EFL an opportunity not to restart but everything I've seen indicates that as far as the Championship is concerned they intend to finish the season and what happens in L1 and L2 has no bearing on the PL anyway.

Not sure it does have to happen if the season is subsequently ended and I hope we don’t agree to that. If they manage two games and then it gets curtailed then I don’t think any teams should be relegated.