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Pugin

Help! - enormous gap in my knowledge and understanding

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During the C19 pandemic it is easy to understand that individual companies and corporations will make less profit because their productivity declines dramatically. Consumption falls. To my simple mind, the UK may suffer less than countries such as China, as our international economy is based 80% 'service' industry rather than industrial production. So far, so good. 

The Treasury forecast says that the UK government will borrow about £350 billion in 2020 in order to pay for furloughing and other support measures. This debt will have to be re-paid over time through increased taxes and reduced government spending. We all get hit by this.

Now comes the simple but vital question - who is lending this money to the UK Government? Whoever these investors are, they appear to be the true rulers of the capitalist world. They profit even in the chaos and suffering caused by a global pandemic. But are they names that we would recognise? Do they have offices that we would recognise? Are their accounts published? Can individuals invest in them?

Allegedly, wars have been started and fought in order to protect these peoples' investments, but who are they?

There are some savvy people on this forum. Who knows how the system works?   

The BBC website sheds some light:

At first the government will raise money by borrowing from investors.

They could be individuals, companies, pension funds, or foreign governments who lend the money to the UK government by buying bonds.

A bond is a promise to pay the money back in the future, and pay interest in the meantime.

The Bank of England will buy some of these bonds, which will make raising the money easier.

 

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

This is a job for our resident know it all to answer.

You're just making stuff up again. Both of you. 

Edited by wcorkcanary
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Money is debt.

Once you realise this the everything else is clear.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Wow! You want the bond market explained? ! And on a Saturday when the sun is shining?!🤩

Oh dear , oh dearie me, the sun sun shining has no effect whatsoever on ones ability to understand  bond markets, have you learnt nothing from my rabid ranting?  Anyway, if you look back you will see I was right all along...even before I was born. Now, where did I leave my mask?

Edited by wcorkcanary
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Posted (edited)

Over the years, occasionally I will hear something that resonates with me forever, almost like a lightbulb moment. I will give two examples from way back.

  • 'The system went crooked the moment the banks started charging interest'. I don't know who said it, but my God it opens up the possibility of a better alternative.
  • We went to war in the Falklands in order to protect international investors. We needed Galtieri gone as he was about to renege on Argentina's international debts.

Both of these are seemingly outrageous assertions but they set a hare running, and this seems like a very good time to understand the issues a bit more.

Edited by Pugin

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Pugin said:

Over the years, occasionally I will hear something that resonates with me forever, almost like a lightbulb moment. I will give two examples from way back.

  • 'The system went crooked the moment the banks started charging interest'. I don't know who said it, but my God it opens up the possibility of a better alternative.
  • We went to war in the Falklands in order to protect international investors. We needed Galtieri gone as he was about to renege on Argentina's international debts.

Both of these are seemingly outrageous assertions but they set a hare running, and this seems like a very good time to understand the issues a bit more.

The war in the Falklands was also to protect the UKs minerals interests in the Antarctic. We have a small slice of the very  valuable pie down there due to our 'Sovereign Territories'. .....and of course to distract the Nation from Maggies other agendas.

Edited by wcorkcanary

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9 minutes ago, Mello Yello said:

.....Illuminati.....

Yeah, thanks.

But that makes the point doesn't it? It's the money of us, our children and our grandchildren that's being spent with total abandon, but do we really understand who is profiting from it? 

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1 hour ago, wcorkcanary said:

Oh dear , oh dearie me, the sun sun shining has no effect whatsoever on ones ability to understand  bond markets, have you learnt nothing from my rabid ranting?  Anyway, if you look back you will see I was right all along...even before I was born. Now, where did I leave my mask?

 

 
Monty 🇺🇸Curve The Curve🇺🇸 Boa sur Twitter : "I'm pretty sure ...
 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

All you need to know is that it's the taxpayer who has to pay it back. 

Yep, deffo. The taxpayer and every single person who is affected by cutting back services such as the NHS, education, the roads, welfare, social services and the public infrastructure.

And when Rishi Sunak was announcing the support package, he was actually announcing good news for bond owners. There is increased demand for their product and they will benefit from the pandemic for generations. 

It's a funny old game, Saint.

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There is that saying 'follow the money' and it's all people need to know

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22 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Too much negativity on this thread - after all we managed to repay our World War One borrowings fairly recently.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30306579

Oh that's ok then. Mind you we could still be paying for Napoleon given that in the long run we helped Germany to be stronger in social fabric than ourselves.

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1 hour ago, essex canary said:

Oh that's ok then. Mind you we could still be paying for Napoleon given that in the long run we helped Germany to be stronger in social fabric than ourselves.

.......er........ hang on............... I think there's another thread on this message board where the topic of the relative merits of Germany and Britain has descended into a conflict which makes the Battle of the Somme look like a minor squabble (note how I managed to keep the World War 1 theme  going there 😉 ). 

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30 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

.......er........ hang on............... I think there's another thread on this message board where the topic of the relative merits of Germany and Britain has descended into a conflict which makes the Battle of the Somme look like a minor squabble (note how I managed to keep the World War 1 theme  going there 😉 ). 

Three is a crowd. That is always the way it has been with ourselves, France and Germany. It is just that many people seem to look at it from the prism of the last century only. We all need to move on from that.

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5 hours ago, Pugin said:

During the C19 pandemic it is easy to understand that individual companies and corporations will make less profit because their productivity declines dramatically. Consumption falls. To my simple mind, the UK may suffer less than countries such as China, as our international economy is based 80% 'service' industry rather than industrial production. So far, so good. 

The Treasury forecast says that the UK government will borrow about £350 billion in 2020 in order to pay for furloughing and other support measures. This debt will have to be re-paid over time through increased taxes and reduced government spending. We all get hit by this.

Now comes the simple but vital question - who is lending this money to the UK Government? Whoever these investors are, they appear to be the true rulers of the capitalist world. They profit even in the chaos and suffering caused by a global pandemic. But are they names that we would recognise? Do they have offices that we would recognise? Are their accounts published? Can individuals invest in them?

Allegedly, wars have been started and fought in order to protect these peoples' investments, but who are they?

There are some savvy people on this forum. Who knows how the system works?   

The BBC website sheds some light:

At first the government will raise money by borrowing from investors.

They could be individuals, companies, pension funds, or foreign governments who lend the money to the UK government by buying bonds.

A bond is a promise to pay the money back in the future, and pay interest in the meantime.

The Bank of England will buy some of these bonds, which will make raising the money easier.

 

You've definitely come to the right place to fill in gaps in your knowledge. This forum is filled with posters who believe they know everything and are never wrong.

The accuracy of that is somewhat debatable though.

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50 minutes ago, Mello Yello said:

......New World Order.....

New World Order indeed. In a sense the EU project has been exposed. But we all need to work together on issues like climate change and viruses. We will still want to go back to wider travel freedoms when this is all over but continual airport expansion maybe off the agenda. Maybe a whole different approach to railways will be necessary.

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6 hours ago, ricardo said:

Money is debt.

Once you realise this the everything else is clear.

You do talk rubbish. Money is not debt . Debt creates money supply . Entirely different . At least you have admitted you are wrong telling us all that the season will be null and void . 

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