Scottish PL - Celtic champs, Hearts relegated...

[Alex Moss 2,167]

Doesn’t look good for us I reckon...

 

 

[Alex Moss 2,167]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52646282

[Jim Smith 2,608]

It will be interesting to see what Hearts do.

One thing that is intriguing is that on the radio they announced that the clubs had unanimously voted for this. Which would imply that Hearts voted for it as well. If so (and I find that hard to believe) then you would think they are shooting themselves in the foot in terms of any possible legal action.

Even if we lose a vote, we and Villa need to make it abundantly clear that we do not agree to decide things by PPG if that decision comes to pass.

[HairyTeeth 16]

Absolutely disgusting. How on earth can you punish a team because of a global virus. There should be no relegation unless seasons are finished.

[kick it off 2,062]

The Hearts board have approval to work on a proposal to expand the top flight for next season. Presumably this will be approved when complete which is why Hearts voted for it.

Other factor to consider is the SPFL is paying out a total of £7million in prize money. Significantly different set of circumstances in the Prem for consequences and finances.

Edited May 18, 2020 by kick it off

[Alex Moss 2,167]

1 minute ago, Jim Smith said:

It will be interesting to see what Hearts do.

One thing that is intriguing is that on the radio they announced that the clubs had unanimously voted for this. Which would imply that Hearts voted for it as well. If so (and I find that hard to believe) then you would think they are shooting themselves in the foot in terms of any possible legal action.

Even if we lose a vote, we and Villa need to make it abundantly clear that we do not agree to decide things by PPG if that decision comes to pass.

Sorry Jim, just noticed you brought this up on the League 2 thread. 
 

Am I right in thinking West Ham would therefore drop in to the relegation zone if it ends on PPG, with Bournemouth staying up? If so, at least there will be 2 other clubs, 2 big clubs, that won’t take this easily either...

We take our horrendous injury situation for a big chunk of the season for granted. But I think there’s a good chance we’d have been a good 6 points better off had it not been so severe.

It was hardly the craziest deficit to make up given we were coming into better form, and if the likes of Leeds come up at ours, West Ham’s and Aston Villa’s expense, they will get mercilessly ridiculed as the club that were promoted having only played 3/4’s of their season. The Leeds fans won’t care of course, but they will of course live with the fact that they never got across the line themselves. What a way to win promotion !

[WD40 726]

6 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

Sorry Jim, just noticed you brought this up on the League 2 thread. 
 

Am I right in thinking West Ham would therefore drop in to the relegation zone if it ends on PPG, with Bournemouth staying up? If so, at least there will be 2 other clubs, 2 big clubs, that won’t take this easily either...

We take our horrendous injury situation for a big chunk of the season for granted. But I think there’s a good chance we’d have been a good 6 points better off had it not been so severe.

It was hardly the craziest deficit to make up given we were coming into better form, and if the likes of Leeds come up at ours, West Ham’s and Aston Villa’s expense, they will get mercilessly ridiculed as the club that were promoted having only played 3/4’s of their season. The Leeds fans won’t care of course, but they will of course live with the fact that they never got across the line themselves. What a way to win promotion !

Leeds can only go up if season curtailed and aren’t given the time to fall apart, again. 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 4,614]

4 minutes ago, kick it off said:

The Hearts board have approval to work on a proposal to expand the top flight for next season. Presumably this will be approved when complete which is why Hearts voted for it.

Other factor to consider is the SPFL is paying out a total of £7million in prize money. Significantly different set of circumstances in the Prem for consequences and finances.

 

5 minutes ago, kick it off said:

The Hearts board have approval to work on a proposal to expand the top flight for next season. Presumably this will be approved when complete which is why Hearts voted for it.

They rejected the proposal a week or two ago, and now it's back on the table!?

I swear, pound-for-pound in terms of the prestige and importance of jobs held and the length of time he has had them for, Neil Doncaster must be one of the least competent employees in the world.

[kick it off 2,062]

2 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

They rejected the proposal a week or two ago, and now it's back on the table!?

According to BBC...

[kick it off 2,062]

Quite why they've got a chair to draft a proposal instead of a person though is up for debate.

[HairyTeeth 16]

3 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

Sorry Jim, just noticed you brought this up on the League 2 thread. 
 

Am I right in thinking West Ham would therefore drop in to the relegation zone if it ends on PPG, with Bournemouth staying up? If so, at least there will be 2 other clubs, 2 big clubs, that won’t take this easily either...

We take our horrendous injury situation for a big chunk of the season for granted. But I think there’s a good chance we’d have been a good 6 points better off had it not been so severe.

It was hardly the craziest deficit to make up given we were coming into better form, and if the likes of Leeds come up at ours, West Ham’s and Aston Villa’s expense, they will get mercilessly ridiculed as the club that were promoted having only played 3/4’s of their season. The Leeds fans won’t care of course, but they will of course live with the fact that they never got across the line themselves. What a way to win promotion !

Some people dont realise how bad our injury crisis was. Godfrey and Zimmermann have played 5 times together this season and we got 8 points. 4 of them were away. (2 home and 3 away games). With a less severe injury list we would be on at least 30 points right now. 

2nd highest team in league hitting woodwork ( 13 times ). One of the teans hit hardest through VAR. 5th best pass ratio in the whole league. 

People can moan we deserve to go down through lack of investment but i believe we had a good enough squad to stay up. Settled teams promote stability and confidence like Sheff Utd hence why they are where they are. 

To get relegated with PPG i would think is absolutely disgraceful and not 1 ounce of integrity.

If we finish season we will stay up no problem.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

16 minutes ago, kick it off said:

The Hearts board have approval to work on a proposal to expand the top flight for next season. Presumably this will be approved when complete which is why Hearts voted for it.

Other factor to consider is the SPFL is paying out a total of £7million in prize money. Significantly different set of circumstances in the Prem for consequences and finances.

I think you're right KIO. I wouldn't be surprised to see competition rules varying depending on money rather than sport. It's a sad state of affairs though...

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 4,614]

12 minutes ago, kick it off said:

According to BBC...

I saw that, but the 14-14-14 proposal as it was known was scrapped a couple of weeks ago. A new restructuring system is now all of a sudden back on the table, and by the looks of it, they're allowing Hearts to design it, instead of the clubs working together, which seems bizarre.

Maybe putting a chair in charge of the organisation would improve things. 

[Mason 47 1,921]

In our case it's definitely more of a situation between what's right for society and football as a whole, and great big bags of cash.

No matter how much the media try to villainise us, I'd say the vast majority just want the opportunity to attempt an unlikely survival charge on even terms. From a personal point of view I'm not massively fussed if we're in the PL or not so long as we're doing well and I can watch the games safely.

Can't help but feel if this pandemic had happened 20 years ago we would already have called the season off.

[Jim Smith 2,608]

32 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

Sorry Jim, just noticed you brought this up on the League 2 thread. 
 

Am I right in thinking West Ham would therefore drop in to the relegation zone if it ends on PPG, with Bournemouth staying up? If so, at least there will be 2 other clubs, 2 big clubs, that won’t take this easily either...

We take our horrendous injury situation for a big chunk of the season for granted. But I think there’s a good chance we’d have been a good 6 points better off had it not been so severe.

It was hardly the craziest deficit to make up given we were coming into better form, and if the likes of Leeds come up at ours, West Ham’s and Aston Villa’s expense, they will get mercilessly ridiculed as the club that were promoted having only played 3/4’s of their season. The Leeds fans won’t care of course, but they will of course live with the fact that they never got across the line themselves. What a way to win promotion !

We honly have ourselves to blame really for the fact we are bottom but that deosn;t mean we should accept an unfair relegation on PPG if it comes down to it.

If it is done on PPG and no further games are played then it depends on which method of PPG they use. If its "straight" PPG then Bournemouth go down. If its "weighted" PPG (i.e. distinguishing home and away) then its West Ham. Because of this i find it hard to see how the clubs themselves are going to be able to agree on any form of PPG to use, if indeed they will agree to use it at all.

[Jim Smith 2,608]

8 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

In our case it's definitely more of a situation between what's right for society and football as a whole, and great big bags of cash.

No matter how much the media try to villainise us, I'd say the vast majority just want the opportunity to attempt an unlikely survival charge on even terms. From a personal point of view I'm not massively fussed if we're in the PL or not so long as we're doing well and I can watch the games safely.

Can't help but feel if this pandemic had happened 20 years ago we would already have called the season off.

I'm torn because i'm not a massive lover of the premier league itself but on the other hand I feel massively indignant about the possibility/prospect of us being unfairly relegated at what would be a terrible time (and with us already having taken a financial hit) if it cannot be played out. 

[king canary 8,750]

I think from a purely 'what is best for Norwich City' standpoint we need to start rooting for project restart to go ahead. 

It gives us a chance of survival and minimises any chance of having to pay large scale TV rebates.

I'm convinced at this point that if the season can't be played out then PPG will be used and relegation will happen.

 

[sgncfc 1,330]

33 minutes ago, HairyTeeth said:

Some people dont realise how bad our injury crisis was. Godfrey and Zimmermann have played 5 times together this season and we got 8 points. 4 of them were away. (2 home and 3 away games). With a less severe injury list we would be on at least 30 points right now. 

2nd highest team in league hitting woodwork ( 13 times ). One of the teans hit hardest through VAR. 5th best pass ratio in the whole league. 

People can moan we deserve to go down through lack of investment but i believe we had a good enough squad to stay up. Settled teams promote stability and confidence like Sheff Utd hence why they are where they are. 

To get relegated with PPG i would think is absolutely disgraceful and not 1 ounce of integrity.

If we finish season we will stay up no problem.

Some seriously tinted glasses on there, I think......but love the optimism.

[KiwiScot 1,684]

9 minutes ago, king canary said:

I think from a purely 'what is best for Norwich City' standpoint we need to start rooting for project restart to go ahead.

Our best chance yes, but we're going down unless they void or agree some sort of league restructure.

Based on past and games still to play we're going down

[Jim Smith 2,608]

Hearts have put out a statement that basically says clubs agree to their reconstruction proposal or they are off to court.

So far as we are concerned Project Re-Start looks increasingly likely to go ahead. However I am of the view that it remains absolutely essential that we do not agree to a PPG based fallback plan if it gets curtailed as there remains a risk that it either won;t start or that we will get a few games in and then it has to be ended again. Even if we get outvoted on it then we have to register our opposition to try and preserve our options if it ever applies.

[king canary 8,750]

13 minutes ago, KiwiScot said:

Our best chance yes, but we're going down unless they void or agree some sort of league restructure.

Based on past and games still to play we're going down

I agree it is unlikely we stay up if the games get played but I'd argue all bets are off as to how teams will play once the season resumes. 

If the season hadn't been interrupted I would have given our chances of picking up the 16 odd points we require to have a shot at staying up as miniscule. 

Within the current situation I think it is still unlikely slightly more of a possibility than before just due to the sheer uncertainty. 

[hogesar 10,761]

31 minutes ago, king canary said:

I think from a purely 'what is best for Norwich City' standpoint we need to start rooting for project restart to go ahead. 

It gives us a chance of survival and minimises any chance of having to pay large scale TV rebates.

I'm convinced at this point that if the season can't be played out then PPG will be used and relegation will happen.

 

I don't think you're far wrong. Also, we have some players for whom this season may well be their only ever in the prem. I think as a club we have to continue with our desire to complete the season - the players deserve the opportunity at the least.

[king canary 8,750]

1 minute ago, hogesar said:

I don't think you're far wrong. Also, we have some players for whom this season may well be their only ever in the prem. I think as a club we have to continue with our desire to complete the season - the players deserve the opportunity at the least.

I also think we need to remember that there are really only 3 or 4 teams with a vested interest in no relegation. The bottom 6 have often been thrown together but while us and Brighton may well be in alignment about opposing neutral venues, I've not doubt Brighton would happily vote to end the season on a PPG basis.  

[nutty nigel 7,902]

Why would anyone accept PPG as reasonable. I have put individual examples up on here before. Most startling one being Leicester who had less points than we do but stayed up and went on to win the PL the next season.

I wonder how often the bottom three after 29 games went on to be relegated?

[king canary 8,750]

3 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Why would anyone accept PPG as reasonable. I have put individual examples up on here before. Most startling one being Leicester who had less points than we do but stayed up and went on to win the PL the next season.

I wonder how often the bottom three after 29 games went on to be relegated?

Not sure it is about whether PPG is reasonable.

More about how many clubs are happy with what it means for them as a result.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,035]

41 minutes ago, KiwiScot said:

Our best chance yes, but we're going down unless they void or agree some sort of league restructure.

Based on past and games still to play we're going down

...ironically I think we may have a better chance of picking up more points if this is how football is going to look for the rest of the season.

   Are clubs who have little to play for really going to be up for this?....amid safety concerns and unatmospheric stadiums. They wont even have their fans on their back if theyre seen to be 'on the beach' or arent fully committed.

  Yes , we've still got games left vs relegation rivals and those looking at european qualifucation but for everyone else, if we're not more up for it in these alien circumstances ,there's something wrong?

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 4,614]

I think our best hope of survival is that project restart doesn't happen, personally. To stay up 'on the pitch' we need five wins from nine games, or at least four wins and some draws. Given that we have to play Arsenal, Chelsea and Man City, and we've only won five of 29 matches so far, I think our chances of staying up are probably around 5%. Our chances of avoiding relegation based on an incomplete season with relegation bring scrapped may also be unlikely, but I feel it's our best hope of Premier League football next season.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 4,614]

11 minutes ago, king canary said:

Not sure it is about whether PPG is reasonable.

More about how many clubs are happy with what it means for them as a result.

But you also have to consider the consequences. There will definitely be lawsuits if teams get relegated as a result of PPG. 

Which option is the 'least bad' for the Premier League?

[nutty nigel 7,902]

12 minutes ago, king canary said:

Not sure it is about whether PPG is reasonable.

More about how many clubs are happy with what it means for them as a result.

Well of course if we sacrifice the integrity of the sport then financial considerations will take centre stage.

 

[Alex Moss 2,167]

I bet the PL are rubbing their hands at the prospect of bringing Leeds back at our expense...