Full refund scheme - Get your donations in

[Branston Pickle 3,638]

Perhaps it’ll be a little slow as some of the guys are (or were) on furlough, but that’s an entirely different argument....

[daly 500]

Email the club and the refund will be there in 5 days or so

[nutty nigel 7,509]

6 hours ago, CANARYKING said:

Seems stupid still taking direct debits for next season, just making extra work for themselves 

But I want to keep paying for me and my grandson. If next season doesn't happen it will be paid for whenever we can go again. I can only afford these tickets paying for them the way I do.

You can get yours back anytime you like Canaryking. 

[TIL 1010 4,722]

17 hours ago, CANARYKING said:

Seems stupid still taking direct debits for next season, just making extra work for themselves 

I believe 14,000 pay for their season tickets by DD so for the club to stop taking them would not help the cash flow. It is entirely in your hands whether you help the club at this difficult time and at the same time not be faced with rather large catch up payments when next season finally gets under way. CANARYKING e-mail or pick up the phone to the club and your concerns will be answered .

[essex canary 492]

On 20/05/2020 at 09:34, GMF said:

Essex, if the IFO has reaffirmed that the original subscriber benefits were personal and therefore not transferable, your above suggestion that you could sell your shares with the benefit of an ongoing entitlement to free membership, is misleading to any potential purchasers - do you really think that you should be doing this? 

I think the key issue here is that there is a difference in content between the 2002 Prospectus and the Articles of Association.

The 2002 Prospectus could be deemed to infer that 'non-transferable' means non -transferable upon death though I would reasonably have thought events during life was a more reasonable interpretation and that perhaps 'encouragement to retain' should have attracted more weighting.

The Articles of Association though state that every shareholder is entitled to a free full membership (though apparently now interpreted as Home only). Therefore a reasonable interpretation of that is that an inheritor or transfer recipient would still be entitled to it. Therefore I think my disposal option would be valid.      

 

[daly 500]

Til

You think things will be back to normal, how many clubs are going to survive with no revenue coming in from gate receipts etc

More unemployment less spending power who is going to spend £100 on an away day to watch football  

[essex canary 492]

On 20/05/2020 at 10:00, wcorkcanary said:

Yep, what the hell is actually Ethics Canarys gripe?. Was he hoodwinked  by the Club , misled perhaps? Did he not read the small print?

Are we not bemused? Answers on a postcard to 

Ethics Canary, 13 Gripe st. , Unsubstantiated insunuationtown,  Boringland. The World( is against me).

 

It is not the world is against me. It is the world is against inheritors who have no effective say in the matter and may not necessarily be middle aged and male. 

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

2 hours ago, essex canary said:

I think the key issue here is that there is a difference in content between the 2002 Prospectus and the Articles of Association.

The 2002 Prospectus could be deemed to infer that 'non-transferable' means non -transferable upon death though I would reasonably have thought events during life was a more reasonable interpretation and that perhaps 'encouragement to retain' should have attracted more weighting.

The Articles of Association though state that every shareholder is entitled to a free full membership (though apparently now interpreted as Home only). Therefore a reasonable interpretation of that is that an inheritor or transfer recipient would still be entitled to it. Therefore I think my disposal option would be valid.      

 

😴😴😴😴😴😴

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

20 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

😴😴😴😴😴😴

 

20 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

😴😴😴😴😴😴

Couldn't have put it better myself.  The guy moves the goalposts  every time his gripes are rebuffed on here. He wants a peers jury decision....... your response speaks for most of us Purpleo. 

[Duncan Edwards 2,221]

I'm struggling with the inheritor bit.

 

If it's regarding the benefit of a season ticket for life then in my simplistic head it seems quite simple. 

 

1) Person invests their money in shareholding, receives season ticket for life as benefit of doing so.

2) Person enjoys that benefit during their lifetime.

3) Person dies. Their life has ended. So the 'for life' benefit ends with it.

4) Person2 inherits shareholding. They've invested nothing themselves so don't receive benefit of season ticket as that was for the life of the person that invested. Which isn't person2. 

 

On the face of it, you might argue that it's a case where some discretion might have been shown but then I don't know the full situation or any other factors at play. However, discretion aside, it seems reasonable enough to me🤷‍♂️

[TIL 1010 4,722]

2 hours ago, essex canary said:

It is not the world is against me. It is the world is against inheritors who have no effective say in the matter and may not necessarily be middle aged and male. 

I hope nobody leaves you any Premium Bonds as they are not transferable.

[TIL 1010 4,722]

On 19/05/2020 at 19:52, essex canary said:

Answer: Because they shy away from anything controversial. Publicly available report attached. I wasn't clear about the 1 share entitlement until after my departure from the ADG. 

Ombudsman Final Report.pdf 183.39 kB · 0 downloads

My memory tells me that back in 2009 two members of the ADG did not shy away from controversy when writing to the club about the situation we found ourselves in upon relegation.

[essex canary 492]

27 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

I hope nobody leaves you any Premium Bonds as they are not transferable.

Ok but you would get the cash back and if you reinvested in your own name you would be entitled to the same prize structure as your forebears so in that case not comparable to NCFC shares. How many other life situations effectively leave the inheritor without the dividend or dividend in kind? 

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

17 minutes ago, essex canary said:

Ok but you would get the cash back and if you reinvested in your own name you would be entitled to the same prize structure as your forebears so in that case not comparable to NCFC shares. How many other life situations effectively leave the inheritor without the dividend or dividend in kind? 

😴🏝️😴🏖️😴☀️😴

[Duncan Edwards 2,221]

I must be missing something. It was a season ticket for life. The life ended, so does the season ticket. 

 

If not they'd have called it a season ticket forever. Or The Neverending Season Ticket or something. 

 

Anyway, all these freebies, no wonder our Season Tickets are the most expensive in the galaxy...

[essex canary 492]

Thanks to the Citizens Jury. 

The conclusion being that an inheritor simply has to retain the money in the Football Club free of charge until such time as they are able to negotiate an exit strategy from a weak bargaining position. 

The overall principle thereby being very much let the buyer beware. All this family values stuff only means anything when applied to Nephew Tom.   

It can hardly be classed as a freebie when you are underpinning the Clubs assets to that extent and other supporters are not but hey hey. 

 

Edited May 21, 2020 by essex canary

[TIL 1010 4,722]

25 minutes ago, essex canary said:

Thanks to the Citizens Jury. 

The conclusion being that an inheritor simply has to retain the money in the Football Club free of charge until such time as they are able to negotiate an exit strategy from a weak bargaining position. 

 

 

The inheritor of shares can do the same as any other shareholder and that is negotiate a price with anybody who wishes to purchase them if they do not wish to retain them. 1,000 shares would reap a handsome sum for someone who paid nothing for them.

Edited May 21, 2020 by TIL 1010

[nutty nigel 7,509]

It's not like the descendants of 2002 and their covenant with Munby and Doncaster are anything special. Indeed by 2009 the ADG had helped chase out the two forefathers so the lineage now goes to a dead end.

However the true line is those of us who's covenant was with Geoffrey Watling and Sir Arthur. Our covenant even included just lifting the receiver and phoning Bert to sort tickets. We had those memorable words "season ticket holders and shareholders can apply for their tickets...."

This is the true line from which the messiah will come. This is where it will matter who begat who so that we can trace our lineage when our messiah takes back our rightful ownership. Those begat from 2002 will merely be the chaff blowing away over Boulton and Paul into the sunset.

Our day will return.

[essex canary 492]

TIL I suspect that NCFC hasn't been a particularly good investment to pass on to your heirs relative to other alternatives.

Taking the annual economic angle Leeds United were paying £2 million pound commercial ground rent until a few years ago. On that basis 1,000 shares is worth £3,000 plus to the Club each year for Carrow Road alone which is effectively subsidising the cost of seats in the ground therefore why shouldn't there be a shared logic attached to that? 

Nigel, your views on the regimes are very interesting and in some senses may well be sound but I personally played no part in the 2009 goings on and I have no partisan view as to whether they were right or wrong. 

 

[TIL 1010 4,722]

Who buys shares in their football club as an investment when you know full well when you purchased them no dividend was payable ?

[Van wink 2,994]

Should we have had a letter about season tickets and memberships?

[essex canary 492]

22 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Who buys shares in their football club as an investment when you know full well when you purchased them no dividend was payable ?

We are going round in circles here TIL. There is, in a sense, a divdend in kind being the seat and the dividend is community oriented rather than high yield in nature and I always knew that but it is apparently available for initial investors only. My point therefore is if you make a Community investment you may expect it to continue as a Community investment beyond your lifetime given all this 'we are family' stuff but apparently not. 

[Duncan Edwards 2,221]

8 minutes ago, essex canary said:

We are going round in circles here TIL. There is, in a sense, a divdend in kind being the seat and the dividend is community oriented rather than high yield in nature and I always knew that but it is apparently available for initial investors only. My point therefore is if you make a Community investment you may expect it to continue as a Community investment beyond your lifetime given all this 'we are family' stuff but apparently not. 

It was FOR LIFE. He/she died. Probably from banging their head against a brick wall trying to explain something to Essex Canary. 

[essex canary 492]

3 hours ago, Duncan Edwards said:

 

 

Anyway, all these freebies, no wonder our Season Tickets are the most expensive in the galaxy...

Hi Duncan. Maybe you sit in one of those 45 or so seats I effectively sponsor at Carrow Road or one of the 45 effectively sponsored by the Inheritor I am referring to? Therefore you are the one effectively claiming the freebie as all your season ticket money is diverted into excess player wages etc. 

. 

[nutty nigel 7,509]

So how many generations should the seat be handed down? Does it go to the first born? If none are born could it go to a brother? Or where there's  no family could a cats home inherit?

[TIL 1010 4,722]

How do less than two dozen Associate directors sponsor 45 seats ? The other seats in the area which you are talking about are sold at in excess of £1400 a season to paying punters.

 

[essex canary 492]

The Club has 612,000 shares. One individual owning 1,000 shares therefore owns 1 part of every 612 owned by the Club. Therefore logically Each AD owns 27, 000 divided by 612 equals around 45 each. 

[TIL 1010 4,722]

5 minutes ago, essex canary said:

The Club has 612,000 shares. One individual owning 1,000 shares therefore owns 1 part of every 612 owned by the Club. Therefore logically Each AD owns 27, 000 divided by 612 equals around 45 each. 

What on earth are you on about for goodness sake ? Shares now equate to seats, yeah righto whatever. How exactly you own something that is sold every year to whoever buys it and you retain ownership is way beyond me.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

I'm still trying to work out how many cats could fit on the seat they could inherit..

[Daz Sparks 1,151]

20 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

But I want to keep paying for me and my grandson. If next season doesn't happen it will be paid for whenever we can go again. I can only afford these tickets paying for them the way I do.

You can get yours back anytime you like Canaryking. 

This.

Even though it's entirely feasible that some clubs, including our own, may go bankrupt, I would rather sideline that thought and be paid up and ready to go again when it is allowed.