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pete

13 for 6 against 1 dissenter

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1 minute ago, ricardo said:

Oh for the gift if clairvoyance ūüėČ

..........beat my edit to add the probably I missed out first time. @ricardo you were easier to deal with when you could go out for fish and chips lunches

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With the R0 increasing any restart looks problematic.

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2 minutes ago, BigFish said:

We are bottom, if the season was played to conclusion we would probably still be bottom. I want us to stay up by any means too but talk of a stitch-up is for the birds. Villa have more of a case than we do.

 Until the fixtures are concluded and it’s mathematically impossible we have a case. If we would have survived or not is absolutely irrelevant here. The fact is we would be denied the chance to defend our position and lose our place in this league to clubs that still haven’t mathematically been promoted and may well not have been. The season before Leicester won the PL they were in a worse position than us, absolutely nailed on for relegation. Had this happened then and they had been sent down like this they would never have won the PL and been the club they are now 

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1 minute ago, BigFish said:

..........beat my edit to add the probably I missed out first time. @ricardo you were easier to deal with when you could go out for fish and chips lunches

I can't yet see when that day will come, even with a crystal ball.ūüėÄ

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2 minutes ago, JF said:

 Until the fixtures are concluded and it’s mathematically impossible we have a case. If we would have survived or not is absolutely irrelevant here. The fact is we would be denied the chance to defend our position and lose our place in this league to clubs that still haven’t mathematically been promoted and may well not have been. The season before Leicester won the PL they were in a worse position than us, absolutely nailed on for relegation. Had this happened then and they had been sent down like this they would never have won the PL and been the club they are now 

All true, we would have a case. But so would Leeds & West Brom if there was no promotion. That is why the PL is trying to get the games completed however compromised. It weakens our case, and if the Champs does the same our case is even weaker. But that brings into question when football can restart and whether it is the most cost effective option when it is possible.

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The EFL’s internal plan is to promote and not relegate so are the F.a going to block that decision as well??

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6 minutes ago, BigFish said:

All true, we would have a case. But so would Leeds & West Brom if there was no promotion. That is why the PL is trying to get the games completed however compromised. It weakens our case, and if the Champs does the same our case is even weaker. But that brings into question when football can restart and whether it is the most cost effective option when it is possible.

By stitched up I was referring to the fact they are trying to bully clubs into voting for project restart on neutral grounds. If the games get played and we finish bottom three and the champ also completed then obviously we have no grounds for complaint. 

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Point is it‚Äôs not even the FA formally saying this. It‚Äôs a ‚Äúsource‚ÄĚ giving quotes to a journalist knowing full well they will be used to apply pressure on the bottom 6 clubs.¬†

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3 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

The point about neutral venues favouring some more than others is a good one. Is it fair, for example, for us to play West Ham at the Emirates or Man City at Anfield? I assume the plan will be for clubs to be based at grounds that involve a minimum amount of travel so that's a possibility. However the reality is that every single game will be an away game for us involving a hotel stay whereas for other clubs their players may be able to stay at home, train on their usual training grounds etc. 

What hotels will they stay at then? They are not ‚Äėopen‚Äô, and are not allowed to be!

 

Govt stipulation for closed establishment other than retail.

Holiday accommodation including hotels, hostels, B&Bs, holiday rentals, campsites and boarding houses

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4 hours ago, norfolkbroadslim said:

Don't forget they are also proposing having shorter halves, i.e. not 45 minutes.  So you could have matches that last an hour (is a result even valid after an hour?), with players wearing masks.  Some teams playing their U23s and youth players against other teams playing their full strength sides with players back from injuries and loans and added to a squad that wouldn't have been available otherwise.  Games at 'neutral' venues but no doubt still favouring some more than others, players not fully fit, more injuries, players contracting the virus.  I could go on ...

A farce doesn't even come close.  I think it's safe to say that many PL records will fall, record scoreline, record victories etc etc.

They can honestly say that they can promote, relegate and maintain integrity on that basis???

Exactly this. It's like running the 100m Olympics final normally for the first 70m and then telling the athletes to finish it in a skateboard.

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This is all starting to remind me of when you pick teams as a kid, invariably one team ends up much stronger than the other. Half way through the second half you're 15-2 down, some bright sparks says  swap harry for fred, that would even things  up a bit, to which the team with the upper hand says no ! We want to win 22-2. Just hand liverpool  the title , if top 6 are so determined to play for european places let em play a round robin Tuorno  to sort it out, I just dont care about it anymore. I'd rather go Angling. I wouldn't be bothered if they left the table as is. Either postpone until we can play properly , null and void , or as is. 

Makey uppy footy is as appealing as Love Island.

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1 hour ago, Making Plans said:

Liverpool and Everton opoposed to it too according to reports. Those with a genuine home town fanbase it seems are in the main opposed.

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Posted (edited)

Also, whilst I believe it is wrong to relegate any side on the basis of an incomplete season, I'm sure we'd all admit that had the season concluded naturally then we'd be unlikely to survive whereas Leeds and West Brom, despite the former's track record for self-destruction from this position, were both likely to go up. Those who are arguing for Leeds and West Brom's promotion on 'sporting merit' have a point, even though I maintain that it's wrong to relegate anyone and I'm not a fan of a 22-team Premier League.

However, relegating Villa and/or Bournemouth would be incredibly harsh, as the relegation battle is so tight and with Villa's game in hand taken into account too, they're probably both around 50-50 to survive. So to consider promoting Fulham, a team who were highly unlikely to go up automatically and would probably have ended up in the 1-in-4 lottery of the Playoffs, at the expense of Villa and Bournemouth has absolutely no sporting merit whatsoever. 

Edited by Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man

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1 hour ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Also, whilst I believe it is wrong to relegate any side on the basis of an incomplete season, I'm sure we'd all admit that had the season concluded naturally then we'd be unlikely to survive whereas Leeds and West Brom, despite the former's track record for self-destruction from this position, were both likely to go up.

If only it was that simple but it's not.

If everything that was probable turned out to be true then every bookmaker in the Country would go bust.

You cannot, with 9 games to go and everything still to play for, assume anything.

If you do then sport is no longer sport

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14 minutes ago, Making Plans said:

If only it was that simple but it's not.

If everything that was probable turned out to be true then every bookmaker in the Country would go bust.

You cannot, with 9 games to go and everything still to play for, assume anything.

If you do then sport is no longer sport

Yeah, that's basically what I said ūüėČ

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Interesting stuff in this article posted this afternoon in the online Guardian. Barber provides quite a bit of detail and the various nuances. It's more complex than what we might feel has been spun out of other media outlets.

 

Neutral venue issue is not top clubs v bottom six, says Brighton chief

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/may/07/neutral-venue-issue-is-not-top-clubs-v-bottom-six-says-brighton-ceo?

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Last season Leeds had 73 points from 37 games. This season they have 71.

In 2015 Leicester had 19 points from 29 games. This season we have 21 from 29. Leicester stayed up and then won the PL the next season.

The idea that we were as good as down wasn't true at the beginning of March and isn't true now.

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I only half-heard a news item on the radio earlier the gist of which I think was that the FA have said that even if the season can't be completed they will instruct the Premier League to relegate three teams under the rules set up when the Premier League was formed. It just gets messier and messier. 

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1 hour ago, Barry Brockes said:

I only half-heard a news item on the radio earlier the gist of which I think was that the FA have said that even if the season can't be completed they will instruct the Premier League to relegate three teams under the rules set up when the Premier League was formed. It just gets messier and messier. 

The FA as the holder of a special share has to approve any changes to the relegation rules. Not clear though if they are talking about a situation where the season is played out or curtailed early?

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Whatever way you look at it they are attempting to fiddle a result.

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1 hour ago, Barry Brockes said:

I only half-heard a news item on the radio earlier the gist of which I think was that the FA have said that even if the season can't be completed they will instruct the Premier League to relegate three teams under the rules set up when the Premier League was formed. It just gets messier and messier. 

As I said in a post yesterday, how they can justify promoting Fulham at the expense of Bournemouth on the basis of sporting merit or integrity is absolutely ridiculous.

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10 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Last season Leeds had 73 points from 37 games. This season they have 71.

In 2015 Leicester had 19 points from 29 games. This season we have 21 from 29. Leicester stayed up and then won the PL the next season.

The idea that we were as good as down wasn't true at the beginning of March and isn't true now.

It’s around 95% true.

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Whatever they try to ‚Äėengineer‚Äô is going to be deemed unfair by somebody and open to legal challenge. Given¬†the sums of money involved and the relative wealth of (some of) the interested parties this is inevitable. All we will see In the next few months is a period of stasis¬†caused by legal actions, injunctions etc. The EPL have¬†either got to get the prior¬†agreement of all clubs to play the thing out (which¬†will probably need some form of guaranteed¬†financial restitution to relegated clubs due to the fact that the season is not concluded normally) or they‚Äôve got to null and void the whole thing. If the EPL think they can¬†blindly ‚Äėwield the big stick‚Äô they are in for a big shock.

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If we were currently sitting safely and comfortably mid-table in the Premiership....Do you think we'd actually be in uproar or really bothered about the fate of the bottom three?.... 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Mello Yello said:

If we were currently sitting safely and comfortably mid-table in the Premiership....Do you think we'd actually be in uproar or really bothered about the fate of the bottom three?.... 

We as fans may not but whatever happens here will set a precedent for the future and there is every chance that next season could go the same way. Those mid table clubs might find themselves in the bottom 3 at that point and if we are now voted out by them they will have then sealed their own potential fate

Edited by JF

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1 minute ago, JF said:

We as fans may not but whatever happens here will set a precedent for the future and there is every chance that next season could go the same way. Those mid table clubs might find themselves in the bottom 3 at that point and if we are not voted out by them they will have then sealed their own potential fate

How many are self-funding?....

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4 minutes ago, Mello Yello said:

How many are self-funding?....

Doesn’t matter, they will have still set a precedent for relegation if next season also gets curtailed in similar circumstances 

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