Germany’s return is going well....

[Crabbycanary3 994]

1 hour ago, T said:

So what have you sussed?  Still no argument on substance then. And what on earth is the rant about parents about.
 

i am sorry but It is frustrating when people say things that are inconsistent with what is actually being reported in the news by the people responsible. and that are in consistent with standard theory. Why do you think that I don’t understand German or probability theory?
 

 I confess that I’ve only looked at the main German news channels so of you have anything from the other reputable news sources please feel free to share.

It is not some kind of waving match. some people just happen to know more about some subjects than others that is all and I’m merely reporting what is actually being said locally by those responsible rather than seeking to personally attack any individuals or the Government or the RKI. I’ve Seen plenty of personal abuse because you don’t like what I’m reporting but I’ve  seen nothing to suggest what I’ve reported is wrong or that. the RKI is wrong. 

Where have I challenged/questioned you on any part of this subject? I'll save you the time, I haven't, so 90% of your post is irrelevant.

It's YOU that we have sussed (had to highlight those words, as you patently have not understood) . Your narcissist behaviour is palpable, and your faux empathy is as transparent as the waterways in Venice. 

[T 190]

13 minutes ago, yellow_belly said:

I have no idea what T is rambling on about and cannot be bothered to read all the posts to try and fathom why people are racist it why they ‘have it in for’ T.

But in reply to the OP. Things seem to be going array in Germany re the football restart. 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.goal.com/en/amp/news/german-football-restart-dilemma-dresden-squad-quarantine/1slurqcoei1t01nnpb0fi1y6t7

With regard to the restart in the UK, it is bonkers and fuelled by money only. Little appetite by supporters and wider community. Alas, football is a non entity until things improve, so that includes the next season. 
 

Apologies to T if you find this post racist. (It isn’t but) I am confused by rules of the modern snowflake.

If you have an issue about potentially being deemed racist then probably best not to use the hard right extremist term snowflake for any mainstream person who is against racism 🙂

i don’t doubt that you don’t understand what I’m saying. 
 

The above has already been reported and explained. 
 

UK situation is different and I’ve said I don’t support U.K. restart currently. 
 

i do wonder though if people are taking their anti German position not because they are racist but because Norwich are near certs to go down. Strangely enough. my Liverpool supporting colleagues don’t feel the same way.about restart. I admit I wonder if one of the reasons I’m against a UK restart is because I would be happy as an NCFC fan for season to be null and void. 
 

im neutral on the German situation but am fine to go with the advice from the RKI rather than punters on here. It may or may not workout but restrictions are being generally lifted in Germany so don’t see why football should also not be decided on expert advice. 
 

Given the anti German comments on here and the lack of substantial explanation why people know better than the RKI given Germany’s performance compared to UK and the snowflake abuse I merely question people’s motivation. 
 

Besides we love the English football team and Boris and Brexit because they are great  sources  of satire. 🙂  

[Crabbycanary3 994]

4 minutes ago, T said:

If you have an issue about potentially being deemed racist then probably best not to use the hard right extremist term snowflake for any mainstream person who is against racism 🙂

i don’t doubt that you don’t understand what I’m saying. 
 

The above has already been reported and explained. 
 

UK situation is different and I’ve said I don’t support U.K. restart currently. 
 

i do wonder though if people are taking their anti German position not because they are racist but because Norwich are near certs to go down. Strangely enough. my Liverpool supporting colleagues don’t feel the same way.about restart. I admit I wonder if one of the reasons I’m against a UK restart is because I would be happy as an NCFC fan for season to be null and void. 
 

im neutral on the German situation but am fine to go with the advice from the RKI rather than punters on here. It may or may not workout but restrictions are being generally lifted in Germany so don’t see why football should also not be decided on expert advice. 
 

Given the anti German comments on here and the lack of substantial explanation why people know better than the RKI given Germany’s performance compared to UK and the snowflake abuse I merely question people’s motivation. 
 

Besides we love the English football team and Boris and Brexit because they are great  sources  of satire. 🙂  

Bingo!

FML.

Should we all take a sentence each here?

[Monty13 2,229]

16 minutes ago, T said:

If you have an issue about potentially being deemed racist then probably best not to use the hard right extremist term snowflake for any mainstream person who is against racism 🙂

i don’t doubt that you don’t understand what I’m saying. 
 

The above has already been reported and explained. 
 

UK situation is different and I’ve said I don’t support U.K. restart currently. 
 

i do wonder though if people are taking their anti German position not because they are racist but because Norwich are near certs to go down. Strangely enough. my Liverpool supporting colleagues don’t feel the same way.about restart. I admit I wonder if one of the reasons I’m against a UK restart is because I would be happy as an NCFC fan for season to be null and void. 
 

im neutral on the German situation but am fine to go with the advice from the RKI rather than punters on here. It may or may not workout but restrictions are being generally lifted in Germany so don’t see why football should also not be decided on expert advice. 
 

Given the anti German comments on here and the lack of substantial explanation why people know better than the RKI given Germany’s performance compared to UK and the snowflake abuse I merely question people’s motivation. 
 

Besides we love the English football team and Boris and Brexit because they are great  sources  of satire. 🙂  

Probably the funniest thing I’ve read on here for a while 😂

[ricardo 7,343]

Latest estimate of German R from the R.K.I.

The current estimate is R= 1.10 (95% prediction interval: 0.90- 1,34) and is based on electronically notified cases as of 09/05/2020, 12:00 AM.

for the full daily report

https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Situationsberichte/2020-05-09-en.pdf?__blob=publicationFile

[Jim Smith 2,314]

3 hours ago, T said:

So for anyone actually interested in what German news is saying rather than personally attacking people for reporting what the need and risk theory actually says then they are saying that it was always anticipated and planned that the situation in Dresden could happen, the situation is being dealt with as always agreed with the German government authorities, buffer has been built into the plan to deal with situation and the plan is still to end the season.  
 

So it is all happening in accordance with the plan agreed with the government. Test, trace and isolate. Whether it all works out is of course still open but it is still going in accordance with the agreed process. I am merely reporting what the German news is saying and explaining what risk theory tells us.

It may well be the plan and I’ve no doubt a buffer has been allowed but if it happens on multiple occasions it will surely become infeasible to complete the league. In addition it presumably assumes that none of the identified cases end up being serious. They surely won’t continue if someone gets hospitalised having picked this up because of their decision to push on with football? 

[Van wink 2,994]

9 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Latest estimate of German R from the R.K.I.

The current estimate is R= 1.10 (95% prediction interval: 0.90- 1,34) and is based on electronically notified cases as of 09/05/2020, 12:00 AM.

for the full daily report

https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Situationsberichte/2020-05-09-en.pdf?__blob=publicationFile

Thanks Ricardo, I must confess I normally prefer to read these reports in German, but on this occasion English will do.😉

It’s a worrying but inevitable development, something we will all have to struggle with, its going to be such a fine balance to determine which interventions can be tweaked to move R in the right direction and keep it down. 

 

[T 190]

Thanks Ricardo that is good solid info as usual. The RKI has always said lucky that first cases were relatively young skiers. If you get  cases in Care homes anywhere that is really going to hit your cases and death rate. 
 

There have also been outbreaks of immigrant workers living in dormitory accommodation working in slaughter houses and asparagus harvesting which have hit the numbers.  Germany has its fair share of anti immigrant conservatives and the same hypocrisy that these anti immigrants would get upset if they don’t get their meat and especially their asparagus which is a bizarre national obsession. 
 

The report does note that as the cases in Germany are relatively low so the R number is therefore a lot more volatile but it is a concern. The line in Germany is the same as in U.K. that this is a marathon not a sprint and the basic measures will continue and there will be outbreaks requiring restrictions to be reimposed. The broad policy and strategy is the same. The difference at the moment is restrictions are bing lifted generally. but with more localised restrictions imposed to contain outbreaks. There is no doubt this is going to be an ongoing battle until there is a vaccine. I’m not going to be working from the office anytime soon. S Korea is also seeing another outbreak. 

[T 190]

18 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

It may well be the plan and I’ve no doubt a buffer has been allowed but if it happens on multiple occasions it will surely become infeasible to complete the league. In addition it presumably assumes that none of the identified cases end up being serious. They surely won’t continue if someone gets hospitalised having picked this up because of their decision to push on with football? 

Jim appreciate the more reasonable response.  I wouldn’t bet any money that this will all work out as they hope. There are undeniably risks. The authorities have only ever said that it is a plausible and conceivable plan but they have always said that any lifting of restrictions in any area is subject to conditions and if those conditions are not met then restrictions will be reimposed. 

Edited May 10, 2020 by T

[yellow_belly 226]

1 hour ago, T said:

If you have an issue about potentially being deemed racist then probably best not to use the hard right extremist term snowflake for any mainstream person who is against racism 🙂

i don’t doubt that you don’t understand what I’m saying. 
 

The above has already been reported and explained. 
 

UK situation is different and I’ve said I don’t support U.K. restart currently. 
 

i do wonder though if people are taking their anti German position not because they are racist but because Norwich are near certs to go down. Strangely enough. my Liverpool supporting colleagues don’t feel the same way.about restart. I admit I wonder if one of the reasons I’m against a UK restart is because I would be happy as an NCFC fan for season to be null and void. 
 

im neutral on the German situation but am fine to go with the advice from the RKI rather than punters on here. It may or may not workout but restrictions are being generally lifted in Germany so don’t see why football should also not be decided on expert advice. 
 

Given the anti German comments on here and the lack of substantial explanation why people know better than the RKI given Germany’s performance compared to UK and the snowflake abuse I merely question people’s motivation. 
 

Besides we love the English football team and Boris and Brexit because they are great  sources  of satire. 🙂  

Strange, but predictable, response for the deranged T.

I was making comment that the restart in Germany is not going well with one team now quarantined on the eve of the restart. Please refer to Goal, BBC news etc.

As I have said before, I believe the restart should not happen ... even if Norwich get relegated. (I think that your Liverpool friends may also be a little blinkered because they want to win two more matches! 🤷‍♂️)
 

T... I feel that you should take a nice walk, breathe in the fresh air, and get some perspective.... or just shut up and shout at the mirror. Very angry. Horrible. 

(Just wondering if you support Norwich, or just here as a wind up merchant?)

 

[JF 694]

10 minutes ago, yellow_belly said:

Strange, but predictable, response for the deranged T.

I was making comment that the restart in Germany is not going well with one team now quarantined on the eve of the restart. Please refer to Goal, BBC news etc.

As I have said before, I believe the restart should not happen ... even if Norwich get relegated. (I think that your Liverpool friends may also be a little blinkered because they want to win two more matches! 🤷‍♂️)
 

T... I feel that you should take a nice walk, breathe in the fresh air, and get some perspective.... or just shut up and shout at the mirror. Very angry. Horrible. 

(Just wondering if you support Norwich, or just here as a wind up merchant?)

 

I’ve never seen a single post from the person in an actual football thread. Incredibly similar poster to Bill/City1st. Wouldn’t be surprised if they are the same person 

[T 190]

6 minutes ago, yellow_belly said:

Strange, but predictable, response for the deranged T.

I was making comment that the restart in Germany is not going well with one team now quarantined on the eve of the restart. Please refer to Goal, BBC news etc.

As I have said before, I believe the restart should not happen ... even if Norwich get relegated. (I think that your Liverpool friends may also be a little blinkered because they want to win two more matches! 🤷‍♂️)
 

T... I feel that you should take a nice walk, breathe in the fresh air, and get some perspective.... or just shut up and shout at the mirror. Very angry. Horrible. 

(Just wondering if you support Norwich, or just here as a wind up merchant?)

 

Why would I refer to BBC and goal etc when I have previously read the local German news? No dispute that case is not what they would like but just saying this was always part of the process and rest  of games still going ahead. I still wouldn’t bet it will all work out or that a serious case will not occur  

And I still agree that UK shouldnt go ahead at least at moment. And yes I am an NCFC fan and it is totally unjust if LFC don’t get the title but that won’t stop me winding them up 🙂  
 

And yes I should go out but while the national football Team cars lager and women are better the climate is just as rubbish. 

[......and Smith must score. 1,334]

2 hours ago, T said:

Besides we love the English football team and Boris and Brexit because they are great  sources  of satire. 🙂 

Why are you so pro-German and anti-British ?

” We love the English football team.....because they are great sources of satire “

......and on an earlier thread “ we Germans “.

You’ve said you’re a British citizen but a German living in Britain would never say “ us British “.

It just doesn’t add up.

 

[T 190]

It does you can be both up until the end of transition period. Thanks to Boris I can safely say my chances of seeing my country win the World Cup has more than doubled not that it worked well last time out. And having watched German kids take penalties with clinical precision I’m not sure I could ever live long enough to see England win the World Cup 

[......and Smith must score. 1,334]

7 minutes ago, T said:

It does you can be both up until the end of transition period. Thanks to Boris I can safely say my chances of seeing my country win the World Cup has more than doubled not that it worked well last time out. And having watched German kids take penalties with clinical precision I’m not sure I could ever live long enough to see England win the World Cup 

Thanks for your typically Germanic prompt reply. Problem is it’s almost a politicians answer as it answers nothing.

Quite how Boris has increased Germany’s chances of winning the World Cup escapes me - assuming you mean Germany - but as you’re so fond of telling everyone on here you just don’t ‘ get it ‘ do you ?

How can you be both British and German unless you have dual nationality perhaps ?

 

 

[Well b back 3,190]

UK not brilliant either

A third Brighton player has tested positive for coronavirus.

The unnamed player, who will now self isolate for 14 days, was tested on Saturday - two other players tested positive earlier in the pandemic.

 

[T 190]

18 minutes ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

Thanks for your typically Germanic prompt reply. Problem is it’s almost a politicians answer as it answers nothing.

Quite how Boris has increased Germany’s chances of winning the World Cup escapes me - assuming you mean Germany - but as you’re so fond of telling everyone on here you just don’t ‘ get it ‘ do you ?

How can you be both British and German unless you have dual nationality perhaps ?

 

 

You do get it. I have.

Boris hasn't increased Germany's chances but he has increased my chances of saying my country has won the world cup. Although mate who was on professioanl books and knows his football was chatting to Southgate at corporate event and saying to Southgate England will never win because of poor quality of English youth training he experienced and Southgate responded England now following contienntal  systems and confident quality of youth training is now as good as other countries.    

[ricardo 7,343]

UEFA European Youth Championship
Team	Titles	Runners-up	Third place	Fourth place	Semi-finalists	Total (Top Four)
Spain	11 (1952, 1954, 1995, 2002, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2011, 2012, 2015, 2019)	4 (1957, 1964, 1996, 2010)	6	6	1	28
England	10 (1948, 1963, 1964, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1980, 1993, 2017)	5 (1958, 1965, 1967, 2005, 2009)	3	3	3	24
France	8 (1949, 1983, 1996, 1997, 2000, 2005, 2010, 2016)	3 (1950, 1968, 2013)	3	4	6	24
Germany	6 (1965, 1970, 1981, 1986, 2008, 2014)	7 (1954, 1969, 1972, 1973, 1994, 1998, 2002)	5	2	2	22
Russia/ Soviet Union	6 (1966*, 1967, 1976, 1978, 1988, 1990)	2 (1984, 2015)	3	1		12
Portugal	4 (1961, 1994, 1999, 2018)	9 (1971, 1988, 1990, 1992, 1997, 2003, 2014, 2017, 2019)	3	2	2	20
Italy	3 (1958, 1966*, 2003)	7 (1959, 1986, 1995, 1999, 2008, 2016, 2018)	3	3		16

[yellow_belly 226]

What does T stands for... 

... Twit being a polite guess.

[Rock The Boat 1,325]

4 hours ago, T said:

Jim appreciate the more reasonable response.  I wouldn’t bet any money that this will all work out as they hope. There are undeniably risks. The authorities have only ever said that it is a plausible and conceivable plan but they have always said that any lifting of restrictions in any area is subject to conditions and if those conditions are not met then restrictions will be reimposed. 

What might be helpful T is if you could search your German sources to establish whether the RKI has made any announcements on the study referred to by Purple Canary as that would help us determine whether the German plans to restart football have been made with or without assessment of that report. Without that knowledge I don't think we can assume either way, and it does seem a significant development. 

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

15 hours ago, T said:

Purple. How long did you spend looking for that 🙂  What do we do if it is endemic? Never play again? I’ve always understood you are more sensitive when working out hard so still not doubting the risk you pointed out and still don’t now you have repeated exactly the same point again. It is a risk but I think as you are acknowledging if the players are in quarantine and there are no positive tests for 2 weeks then the risk should be low. And what you are pointing out is also a risk but not a certainty. You are still better off being a young athlete rather than old and obese. The overall risk is still very low for young fit athletic people   The average age of people dying is still over 80 in Germany. 
 

I might potentially be higher risk but the advice is for me to go out and exercise. At some point you do have to take some risk and if you can mitagate  that risk suffeciently year then it is reasonable to go ahead but there are never any guarantees in life. It is always a risk assessment and we will always ultimately lose that bet. And it does depend on your attitude to risk which is a personal view and I’m not into into taking extreme risk but like some risk otherwise I would have stayed in Norfolk my whole life and never done anything  
 

I’m not saying there isn’t a risk. I’m saying there is a risk but the RKI has assessed that overall risk which no doubt takes in the risk of a more severe case and assessed that overall risk as acceptable and the Germans are taking a conservative approach to this. I see nothing in what you have said which contradicts the RKI overall risk assessment. They have decided you can go for a drive in the car but it does have an element of increased risk as you rightly point out so has to be a Volvo with all the safety gismos. 

Oh dear, T, suggesting I spent hours on a Saturday evening desperately searching for something to back my case! It took ten seconds when I went back to the internet after other stuff. You really are hopeless at this, and before you complain of abuse that is the professional view of someone trained to spot the flaws in any argument. To be fair, you often start off OK but under pressure it tends to go just a bit haywire, as on this thread.

Anyway, let’s move on to the argument itself, which is the point raised by that Italo-German study, which indicates that hard-training and playing footballers, far from being less likely to suffer damage from the virus to their organs, are actually more likely to, because the infection will go deeper.

It took a while to shift you from your original position, which was that the players were less likely to incur damage, but we got you there in the end. As the chief executive of the World Players’ Association, presumably referring to the Italo-German study, put it: ‘Recent research suggests that athletes may be particularly vulnerable, especially to lung and organ damage, which may be very serious and even career-ending.' 

As VW says, we need more studies to confirm or not that finding but for the moment it seems to be the only authoritative work to go on. So given provisional agreement on that, we need to get on to an overall risk assessment (something I didn’t get into before, despite you claiming I had, and that in doing so I had displayed my ignorance of the subject! Nor did I ever mention car trips, but never mind).

Your risk-assessment argument is that the overall benefits of what we can call Lockdown Football outweigh this one drawback that has emerged. Let’s illustrate that with some figures. Now these are meant only to be illustrative, but if anything I have skewed them towards that risk-assessment argument.

Taking just the Bundesliga, assume around 22 players in each of the 18 squads, so 400 for a round figure,  are in this Lockdown Football, with plenty of testing and in confined conditions, and if need be isolation, aimed at reducing the chances of catching the virus. Now testing is irrelevant to this argument. All that does is reduce the time from catching the virus to knowing you have it. And for simplicity’s sake lets’s assume that any players who nevertheless catch it don’t pass it on to any teammates. Actually they almost certainly will but this is just illustrative.

Suppose these 400 don’t play Lockdown Football but stay at home, avoiding heavy exercise and following whatever lockdown and distancing rules there are for ordinary people. As a result, 40 – one in ten – get the virus, but all survive, and do not suffer long-term damage, and do not pass on the virus.

Suppose instead they do play Lockdown Football. Only ten – one in 40 – get the virus, because of the extreme anti-virus conditions, and no-one dies and no-one passes it on.

From a national public health perspective the latter is much the better result Only 10 people fall ill rather than 40. But when it comes to football, as opposed to what is true for the population as a whole, the perspective of an individual player and what the risk assessment is will be very different.

Imagine a 23-year-old. Not a big star but someone good enough for the Bundesliga, and with at least six seasons left in the top flight before moving a bit down the pyramid. Their choice is between playing Lockdown Football, and risking damage to their organs that may well end their career and cause long-term health problems, or walking away from this fag end of a season but having several future seasons to look forward to. Yes, the risk is slight, and 390 players will be fine, but why take the chance of ruining your career just for a few games?

A rough analogy would be this. You are very keen to get somewhere in a hurry. It is important but not a matter of life and death. You can get there by other means if need be. At the railway station there is a train ready to go, with - oddly – room for 400 passengers. But there is a sign with a premonition – that the driver is drunk and will crash the train into the buffers at the other end of the line, with 390 passengers surviving without a scratch but 10 killed outright. Only an idiot would get on the train.

[T 190]

No RTB I had a quick look and I couldnt find anything to be honest. But I really don’t think what purple posted is new or secret for Coronavirus as I’ve always understood that you are more susceptible to flu if you’ve worked out hard and as I’ve said no doubt I get a bigger dose of pollen when work out hard so no reason to doubt it   I really don’t think it is any great secret to RKI or DFL which is why very stringent preconditions to prepare and continue. Personally I’m quite happy to go with the advice of RKI rather than the views of people on social media not that I’ve a lot of choice anyway. 

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

8 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

What might be helpful T is if you could search your German sources to establish whether the RKI has made any announcements on the study referred to by Purple Canary as that would help us determine whether the German plans to restart football have been made with or without assessment of that report. Without that knowledge I don't think we can assume either way, and it does seem a significant development. 

The question, not just for Germany but for all leagues looking to restart, is what kind of medical advice players have been getting so far, and from which sources. It may be this finding (which I stress is provisional and needs further study) has been known about for some time and communicated to players. So they have been aware there might well be a danger to their careers.

On the other hand, if the advice until now has been that because they are super fit the danger is less than for ordinary prople and the virus is not career-threatening, then this study does look like a significant and potentially decision-changing development. Certainly if I was a player and this was news to me then I would think very hard about whther I wanted to join the restart.

And whether this study is a factor or not I have no idea, but there does seem over the last few days to have been a change in the mood music over this issue, with players less happy to restart.

[T 190]

Fitness studios and team sports are one of the last things to open up under strict conditions so I think it has always been recognised that sporting activities are higher risk. I’m fact there is only one set of activities with longer restrictions.  But you you do still have to look at the overall risk ie the prevention measures and the ability to cope rather than one factor is isolation. 

[Van wink 2,994]

28 minutes ago, T said:

Fitness studios and team sports are one of the last things to open up under strict conditions so I think it has always been recognised that sporting activities are higher risk. I’m fact there is only one set of activities with longer restrictions.  But you you do still have to look at the overall risk ie the prevention measures and the ability to cope rather than one factor is isolation. 

Have there been any special arrangements put in place for BAME players?

[T 190]

It is an interesting point but no.

 

Just emphasing my point though. If i get it wrong skiing off piste I don't just get a more severe case  I die as people do every year. Won't stop me going off piste but does mean I follow expert guidance. It is all a question of managing the risks. I appreciate some people are more risk adverse than I am so will take a different view. 

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

17 minutes ago, T said:

It is an interesting point but no.

 

Just emphasing my point though. If i get it wrong skiing off piste I don't just get a more severe case  I die as people do every year. Won't stop me going off piste but does mean I follow expert guidance. It is all a question of managing the risks. I appreciate some people are more risk adverse than I am so will take a different view. 

Are you a virgin?

You seem to be a highly frustrated . Individual.    

Edited May 11, 2020 by BroadstairsR

[Van wink 2,994]

11 minutes ago, T said:

It is an interesting point but no.

 

 

This comes back to what I explained to you earlier, you are not thinking about risk in the correct way, you are not giving sufficient consideration to harm to health or outcomes. The risk assessment has to take account of particularly vulnerable groups who are likely to be more severely affected, and make special provision for them, if it doesn’t it’s not properly done. 

[T 190]

8 minutes ago, Van wink said:

This comes back to what I explained to you earlier, you are not thinking about risk in the correct way, you are not giving sufficient consideration to harm to health or outcomes. The risk assessment has to take account of particularly vulnerable groups who are likely to be more severely affected, and make special provision for them, if it doesn’t it’s not properly done. 

I do take your point but I don't see how you could discriminate.

I don't think you are taking my point though. There are always going to be risks and if we took the view of you and Purple we would never do anything. Therefore it comes down to managing and mitigating those risks so the risk is low enough but there is always going to be a risk and the question of what is an acceptable risk is always going to be an estimate and a value judgement. We are all making a risk assessment on a daily basis especially at the moment. Take your view and there would never be any football because there will always will be an element of risk which can't be precisely quantified. It seems that ultimately that you and Purple are just a lot more risk adverse than I am and there is no right or wrong on that. 

[Ian 1,129]

Why does every reasonable thread on this forum eventually deteriorate into accusations of racism/bigotry and denigration? Must be some sort of scientific/modelled explanation for it.